Stage 2: The Baby Soul

Those undergoing the second stage of reincarnation are known as “baby” souls. Lessons during this stage are to do with adapting to the rules and customs of life in an orderly, civilized society.

American Gothic

Order! Order!

In the second level of soul development, the focus of human life is no longer on day-to-day physical survival but on participating in a social structure that provides order, security and a sense of belonging.

Whereas the infant soul flourishes in some sort of “Garden of Eden” environment, the baby soul likes to be very civilised, finding its feet in a perfectly ordered, rule-bound society. Think of anything from the American Deep South to the Taleban.

The major lessons revolve around reconciling one’s immediate personal will  with the greater collective will — often making sacrifices so as to create a  more stable and organised way of living than that at the more primitive infant  stage.

Amish women

This stage emphasizes self-control, restraint and compliance, taming one’s personal, short-term impulses for the benefit of long-term  stability and security. There is a  sense of playing a meaningful role, doing something of value, and  belonging to something that is greater than oneself. Life in society is a system of give and take, and here the  emphasis is on learning to give, thereby supporting the greater good.

In Freudian terms, it’s about having a superego to tame the id. The ego is not yet in focus.


It is natural for us to seek order in life’s apparent chaos. And at this level of consciousness, we impose order. An order that is simple and absolute.

A baby soul adopts fixed, permanent structures such as strict rules, enforced law and  order, and rigidly defined roles, including gender roles. All things perceived must be consistent with this rigid framework. If the facts appear to challenge one’s beliefs, the facts must be wrong since the belief system is always “right”. If the Bible says the world was created in seven days, that is The Truth and any evidence to the contrary must be the work of Satan.

All actions, too, must be consistent with a clearly defined set of rules. As a result,  baby souls tend think of behaviour in  terms of simple dualisms: good  vs. bad, right vs. wrong, us vs. them.  For example, if  being clean is better than being dirty, then cleanliness is absolutely good while dirtiness is absolutely wicked. There are no sliding scales or  grey areas.

Us versus them

At the previous stage (as an infant soul), the environment was perceived in terms of beings that either help or hinder one’s survival. For the baby soul, however, the world is divided into the uncivilised physical environment versus civilised society. And society consists of good or bad “actors” — human beings who deliberately act in either a good way or a bad way.

And so the world at large now consists of two kinds of people: “us” versus “them”,  we who do it right versus those who don’t. We, the decent law-abiding people, versus “the  rest”.

In psychological terms, the baby soul’s sense of self is culturally embedded — “I am one of us” — where “us” means others who think and act like me.

The sense of personal identity is  also predefined by one’s role in society (e.g., “I am the farmer’s wife”).

Similarly, beliefs are predefined by the culture, and actions are predefined by the laws and rules of society. Baby souls do not, as yet, focus on setting their own perspectives, motives or agenda. (That all comes at stage 3.)


The various lives undertaken at this stage will generally focus on  law and order, morality, organized religion, ethnic tradition, and being  in a close-knit community.


Childhood will typically include  indoctrination into a set of well-defined rules, beliefs and values. Education will tend to be marked by dogmatism, discipline, and a sense of propriety.

That said, the soul learns by experiencing both sides of any issue, so there are likely to be incarnations at this stage as criminals and outlaws as well as law abiding citizens, particularly in the early levels.

Baby soul behaviour is heavily coloured by a sense of what is correct or acceptable. There is only one right way to do  anything, so let’s do it right or not at all.

As  individuals, they are primarily interested in doing what is  deemed  right come what may. Their sense of rightness is largely dictated by their background and upbringing, and may be extremely conservative, hardline and xenophobic. A baby soul could, for example, work as a professional torturer and do so with a great sense of righteousness.

Because of their rigid beliefs and values, baby souls risk feeling unbearable lifelong shame should  they ever do   something which they believe to be wrong, such as blaspheming or dishonoring the family name.

For some, this absolute rigidity and inflexibility creates considerable inner tension and conflict (potentially  leading to mental illness). Baby souls can be prone to rage at and excessively punish others who transgress the law, just as a way to take the heat off their own conflicts.

Generally, baby souls prefer to stick to their own ethnic  kind within small, quiet towns. They can get by in the modern world, though much of it is not  to their liking. They are not so comfortable in the big  city with all its complexities, ambiguous rules and sinful temptations.

Ideally, baby souls would probably like to live together in a sort of  “Pleasantville” town where life is completely safe and orderly and where there are no troublesome outsiders or free-spirited types breaking the rules.

Amish family

In some ways, baby souls represent the pinnacle of civilisation. Indeed, the rules and laws that underpin modern society stem from the baby soul impulse to organise community life. But with their fixation on rules, hygiene, and upright moral behaviour, they can come across to older souls as distinctly old-fashioned, “uncool”, and “anal”.

As a mark of their civilized nature, baby souls like to keep their  homes and themselves especially clean and germ-free, to a degree which  others might regard as obsessive or paranoid.

They also tend to dress the same as their fellow community members, as tradition dictates, rather than display any individualism. The whole point is to fit in, not stand out.

Because their own ethnic beliefs and traditions are assumed without question to be the only true and right way, baby souls tend to distrust other cultures. In the USA, for example, they make up much of the Christian Right and the “Moral Majority”.

One nation poster

How do baby souls get on with souls at other levels? Not very comfortably.

Infant souls represent the “uncivilized” aspect of human nature which baby souls are trying to get away from.

Young souls are difficult because of their insistence on progress and change, which challenges the baby soul’s desire for stability, permanence and continuity. In addition, young souls are often fixated on ego gratification and personal advancement, which baby souls tend to regard as distasteful and unGodly.

And to baby souls, mature and old souls with their complex and liberal ways are simply incomprehensible — the Devil’s spawn.



With their need for a sense of cosmic order, baby souls are often highly religious. They are usually God-fearing in the most literal sense, both absolutist and fundamentalist. They tend to personify God as the ultimate authority figure who doles out punishments to sinners.

Baby souls will tend to regard their religious leaders as infallible and their scriptures as the literal word of God. The religion into which they are born is assumed without question to be the one true religion (even though in each lifetime they might be born into a completely different religion).


Because of their overriding sense of order, baby souls like to do everything right and by-the-book — literally, in the sense of the Bible, the Koran and so on. But, rather like toddlers, they are also prone to enraged tantrums when their rigidly defined expectations are not met, such as when their concept of morality is violated or their religious beliefs are attacked.


Some famous baby souls

Pat BooneBaby souls tend to shun the temptations of fame and fortune so beloved of Young souls, so there are not that many Baby souls who could be classed as “celebrities”. One example, though, is the American singer Pat Boone (b. 1934), a Baby Artisan.

There are, however, numerous well-known historical figures. Most notorious was Adolf Hitler, a Baby Priest who acted out his toddler rage across Europe, declaring it was Germany’s duty to rid the land of “filthy” Jews and other “unclean” human beings.


Some other high-ranking baby souls of recent history include US President Richard Nixon and Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran.

Sarah Palin is a Baby King soul who appears to feel a calling to high office.

Not surprisingly, conventional religion abounds with baby souls, and many have made a name for themselves as outstanding preachers. Their teachings tend to have a paranoid, fire-and-brimstone flavour and often portray life as an apocalyptic battleground between Good and Evil, Light and Dark, God and Satan.

A good example is the fundamentalist Protestant evangelist Billy James Hargis (1925-2004), who was a forerunner of the Christian Right in the USA. In the 1950s and 1960s, his Christian Crusade ministry was broadcast on more than 500 radio stations and 250 television stations. Hargis portrayed national and world events as part of a cosmic struggle between Christ, represented by America, and Satan, represented by Communism. Typical of many Baby souls, he saw the purity of his religion under constant threat from various forms of evil. His motto was “All I want to do is preach Jesus and save America.”

Ken Ham is an example of a baby soul who has attracted a lot of attention for taking on the scientific establishment in what is actually an exercise in sticking defiantly to the script. His “mission” is to defend the Biblical account of Creation from the onslaught of scientific evidence against it. He maintains that there were dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark, for example.

The Five Stages of Reincarnation

Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 4
Stage 5
Infant Soul Baby Soul Young Soul Mature Soul Old Soul

53 thoughts on “Stage 2: The Baby Soul

  1. Are you absolutely sure that Sarah Palin is a king? Some channels say she might be a priest instead? Would you please take a look at her? Thanks

    • Can’t say I’m absolutely sure, Rafiel. (Who among us can with any overleaves?) It’s a judgement call based on (a) certain channels identifying her as a late-level baby king [although one has her as a 1st level young king]. (b) her facial structure being classic king-like rather than priest-shaped.

    • So really, at the end of the day, one’s upbringing influences soul type! I fit the baby soul in some respects but also an old soul due to my abusive childhood. In fact, I can relate to every stage of soul development, but none entirely. I have family who believe they are close to ascended masters yet live their lives abusing others as a method to extract control. They have acted against the laws of civilised society by harming others, yet they think they are immune from accountability due to some higher soul status. There are so many holes in soul status arguments, and in itself it’s quite egoistic. Rebellion isn’t a sign that a person is an older soul just as confirming isn’t a sign of a baby soul. Some of us conform when we want to rebel because we don’t want to hurt people we love, we sacrifice our need for personal freedom to help our loved ones, we don’t abandon them for our own selfish needs. Wherever my soul is at, as long as it’s intact I’m happy whatever stage I’m authentically at.

  2. Based on this description I think modern day Germany is largely a Baby Soul country (minus cities like Berlin ofc) based on order, cleanliness, strict schedules, and a degree of righteous xenophobia in the smaller towns.

  3. Good read. How does this affect people with problems of depresion and so on. There are many things wrong with my life. So much so i swear my life is a cruel joke. I have been told iam a young soul and tend to agree with that. Why am i suffering in this life, was this my choice or am i getting punished for something.

    • Hi Davo

      Life is a long-term learning process, a constant cycle of experiences and choices. You experience life one way, you choose how to change it (or not), and you experience it another way. Over the long term, you learn wisdom from those choices. There is no punishment for past deeds as such, just the to and fro of karma (choices that impact on others). The end result of it all is growth and learning. For example, you could assert your power in one life at the expense of others, so then in a subsequent life you experience what it feels like to have your power taken away. It’s not retribution (though it might seem that way when it’s happening). It’s just the gravitational pull of needing to experience both sides.

      The choice confronting you appears to be how you deal with a life that is so “wrong” that it feels like a cruel joke. The choice is wide open. You could, for example, decide that it’s all God’s fault and spend your life resenting God. Or you could decide that you must deserve it for some reason and spend your life beating yourself up or trying to figure it out. Or you could look at it all very closely and ask, Is it really so awful or is it simply not turning out the way I would have hoped? Or you could take your negative life experiences and turn them into something positive, such as writing a book to inspire others. I really don’t know – my point is that you always have a choice, and the course of action you choose can be as positive or as negative as you please: it’s literally your choice.

      It’s all a lot easier said than done, of course, and I don’t want to underestimate the difficulty of your circumstances, whatever they are. I can only hope to inspire you with what works for me – a reminder of the bigger picture.


  4. Hello, I hope you’ll still get to read this comment even though the article is old (I have just recently found this website; it’s very interesting!)

    I don’t understand much why this stage is below what is described as young souls. When I think of people who would fit the young soul stage, typically they are materialistic and don’t care about religion or spirituality. But aren’t the so called baby souls closer to the truth?? Unlike many young souls, they know that we aren’t just matter and they care about their moral and spiritual development and a deeper meaning besides the material and sensual. You may find their particular religion not mature enough, but there isn’t really any certainity that New Age beliefs (which seem to mark the last two soul stages) are better or closer to the truth.

    Another thing that puzzles me about this theory of soul gradual development: I know of people who, just in one lifetime, undergo a process that according to these soul stages steps would be seen as regression, not progression. E.g. they turn from believers to atheists or from esoteric type of spirituality to traditional Christianity (which you seem to consider to be a less developped system; however I know of people who turned to it and stay with it after many years of practicing and believing Eastern religions or some branch of esoterics). How can this be explained within this soul development theory? Did the soul decide to return back instead of progressing? Why? Or did the person lose the connection to their soul’s guidance – how and why?

    • Hi luluvioleta

      Thanks forgetting in touch. Don’t worry, although the article is a few years old I get instantly notified of any new comments. (Just takes me a while to respond sometimes!)

      I get the impression that you are assuming there must be some linear progression towards greater religiousness as a marker of evolution. It doesn’t work like that. There can be atheists and religious and at all stages. It’s how the individual acquires and holds their belief system that changes with soul age.

      Infant souls don’t care much about formal beliefs. They are too impulsive to take on anything so organised as religion, but they can pay lip service if it helps them get what they want.

      Baby souls tend to adopt the belief system of their family, local neighbourhood and wider culture, whichever has the strongest impression in childhood. Once adopted, it is assumed to be true beyond question. That is, they are prone to fundamentalism and literalism. For example, a Baby soul who happens to be born into a communist regime will likely grow up to be a communist fundamentalist (and atheist) — just as a Baby soul born to an Orthodox Jewish family will almost certainly grow up to be a devout Orthodox Jew. Same goes for Christians of all persuasions, Muslims, Buddhists, etc etc. For Baby souls, belief is not a matter of choice

      Young souls believe whatever make most sense within their own perspective, which could be the traditional religion of their family/culture, or something completely different, including atheism. But whatever it is, they will assume that their chosen view is inherently right and that others who do not share that view are inherently wrong.

      Mature souls are very aware that belief is a matter of choice and that beliefs are not the same as truths. They question anything and everything, including their own beliefs, and they might flit from one philosophy or teaching to another. Many go through a New Age phase after they have rejected both the old, fixed religions and the emptiness of atheism. They are attracted to some form of certainty as a relief from all their own incessant questioning, and are curious about anyone who, unlike them, seems to have an intuitive sense of certainty, such as the latest Eastern guru. Yet at the same time, they are also distrustful of anyone who does not question themselves. They are not sure that any one religion/teaching is “right”, and so are naturally drawn to those religions/teachings that humbly acknowledge the validity of other religions/teachings, such as Quakerism.

      Old souls see belief systems as mere constructs of the human mind and society, and find greater truth within their own experience of life and the universe as a whole. Rather than subscribing to a predefined doctrine or dogma, they find their own wisdom. That’s not to say that they cannot be members of a particular religion, it’s just that they know they don’t need it, and they won’t let any belief system or doctrine define who they are or what life is about if it conflicts with their own sense of truth. Their primary approach to the Sacred is to see it in the immediate truth of self, others and life as a whole. Often, they find communion with spirit in Nature.

      You are correct that Young souls are often more materialistic than Baby souls. Baby souls enjoy the comfort and safety of a rigid, unchanging understanding of the world. Young souls, in contrast, are enjoying a sense of personal freedom that was unknown at the Baby souls stage. They are like kids who have been let out of school for the summer. But at the same time, if they so choose, Young souls are able to access a somewhat deeper sense of spirituality than Baby souls are aware of; they can find a personal relationship with God or Jesus, for example. So it might seem that Baby souls are closer to truth because they tend to be unquestioningly committed to their faith, but for them the truth is whatever the Good Book says, whereas for a Young soul the truth is a personal discovery.

      With regard to “regressive” shifts between belief systems:

      One thing is that not all lives are explicitly about growth and spirituality. Sometimes your religion is just part of the background of life, and we are not too concerned about getting it “right.” For example, a Mature Server might enjoy going to church every Sunday for the comfort and spirit of goodwill without thinking too much about the validity of other religions, or religion in general.

      Second’ within any given lifetime we may have to reconcile our upbringing, social environment and culture with our highest sense of truth (or God, the Sacred, etc). For example, a Baby soul can be born into a family of Young, Mature or Old souls who happen to have fairly loose, ill-defined New Age beliefs and a sort of “anything goes” mentality. For a Baby soul, such beliefs and attitudes are not good enough. They need a solid, all-encompassing structure of absolutes. They will be magnetically drawn to any belief system that offers such rigidity, particularly if it enables them to belong to a like-minded community where everyone knows their place and no-one harps on about personal freedom. This is an example of how someone might appear to move from a New Age position to a more conventional religion. The same can also happen when,for example, a Young soul has become a Buddhist to keep in with his college friends, but later in life realises that it is not really his cup of tea and feels more at home in an evangelical church.

      Finally, it also seems to me that within any religion there are sub-traditions that span almost the whole spectrum of spirituality, from rigid fundamentalism to personal mysticism. Christianity, for example, is a “broad church” (sorry!) with Baby,Young, Mature and Old soul followers, though there is probably very little they all agree on. For that reason, I don’t actually consider Christianity per se to be a less developed system. There are aspects of it that can fit souls at different stages. As a Mature soul with a goal of Growth, however, I cannot bring myself to commit to any single religion, but I happily respect anyone else’s commitment to any belief system (or none). I guess it’s a phase I’m going though.


    • Hi Barry,
      thank you for a detailed reply. Now it seems clearer that the meanings that I first made of it.
      Yes, I would imagine that the soul development would be marked also by a progression of knowledge of the spiritual. If in one life you already had some knowledge of God/spirituality (whether within a more traditional religion or some looser kind) why would you lose it and be an atheist with a materialist worldview in a next life? And why are there even atheists if we all came from the spiritual realm (so all souls must know that atheism isn’t true)?
      It’s an interesting website, I will surely read more articles here!

    • Hi again

      The thing is, between lives we always have direct knowledge of God/Spirit. As souls, it’s not something we need to discover or figure out, it’s just obvious.

      Religious belief or non-belief in human life makes little difference to our spiritual existence between lives – except, that is, during the period immediately following death. After we leave the body, but before we rejoin our soul mates in the realm of light, we go through a transition state (a “bardo” in Tibetan Buddhism) in which we see and feel whatever we expect to see and feel, depending upon the strength of our beliefs and expectations. Christians, for example, might see angels in Heaven, or Jesus on a throne. Those who feel truly guilty for their “sins” (especially Catholics) are likely to see some kind of Hell. Atheists, on the other hand, are likely to see exactly what they expect – nothing. Until, that is, they recognise that they are still there, conscious and present. At that point, as the human convictions (including atheism and religion) are dropped, the soul returns Home.

      We do not incarnate to become more spiritual, but to become ourselves. In theory, we could evolve from infant to old souls over 100+ lives without ever once going to a church or temple while alive. In practice, all human societies develop religious beliefs, practices and institutions. I think this is for several reasons. One is that human existence demands meaning, value, direction and purpose, and religion is an organised way of meeting that need. Another is that some people are especially sensitive and open to higher truths while in human form, and have spiritual insights which are hard to ignore.

      But I also think that we probably need a general balance between the spiritual and the mundane – too much of one or the other would get in the way of growth. Growth comes from experiencing ourselves as distinct individuals, seemingly separate from the rest of life, but not so cut off that we lose touch with reality.

      We expand our self-awareness by exploring various polar opposites – dominant/submissive, friendly/hostile. Spirituality is just one aspect of human life that we can explore from different angles. In some lives, it won’t be a factor at all, while in other lives we might devote ourselves to a specific religion as monks or nuns, or be raised in one religion but then reject it for something else in later life, or even get involved in religious/sectarian conflict.

      Mature souls typically go through a phase in which they perceive that conventional teachings, philosophies and religions may be no more than man-made perspectives rather than great truths. As a result, there is often an impulse to ask questions rather than accept any predefined doctrines, so the search for truth becomes personal. Some (especially those with intellectual centering) choose to reject religion wholesale in favour of science and reason. If a person going through this happens to be a Mature Priest, there is a good chance that they will become a “devotee” of atheism, or an “evangelist” for humanism.


  5. Comments on this page were very helpful, especially one about balance. Lets see what next articles bring. Thanks a lot!

  6. Hi, you often make the point that socialist thinkers/liberals such as Lyndon Johnson or Barack Obama are mature souls while conservatives like Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher are younger souls. However, I fail to understand how those liberal individuals you cited demonstrated being more enlightened or wise in any way; they were/are extremely ineffective at improving their countries while both Reagan and Thatcher were very effective at increasing prosperity for their countries. Please show evidence as to how LBJ or BO where more wise or enlightened than Reagan and Thatcher.


    • Hi Vincent

      You say I “often make the point” but it’s not a point I have ever set out to make.

      When I look at the political scene, I see a variety of Baby, Young, Mature and Old souls vying for power, democratically or otherwise. At any level their motives can be positive or negative, and they can also change several times over the course of their career.

      Generally speaking, Baby soul politicians want to create a hyper-orderly society, preferably one in which law and order are defined by their own religion and tightly enforced. Negatively, they seek to impose uniformity over diversity (to suppress their fear of otherness) – think of North Korea, for example. Positively, they seek to encourage civility, stability and lawfulness (to honour their vision of a perfect civilisation).

      Young souls believe in themselves as free agents competing with other free agents, and on a national level they see politics as a way to push their country into a more dominant or affluent position relative to others. If they themselves become more dominant and affluent individuals in the process, so much the better. Negatively, they seek to impose their will without it being challenged, something that often leads to corruption (Napoleon, for example). Positively, they seek to make their nation more confident, competent and competitive on the world stage — a leading light for progress (like JFK).

      Mature souls believe in mutual accommodation and tolerance, and therefore find aggressive conflict stressful. They do not go to war lightly … “The only thing we can’t tolerate is wilful intolerance.” I believe Tony Blair – a Priest with a goal of Acceptance – was mesmerised by his popularity in the US and elsewhere internationally, following not long after his huge popular acceptance in the UK. His chief feature of arrogance lured him into the negative pole of acceptance (ingratiation), such that he would have done almost anything to keep his global popularity growing. I suspect he still has nightmares over Iraq…. unless he is in denial about the role his choices played.

      At no point would I say that the politics of one stage (Baby/Young/Mature/Old) are necessarily better than the politics of another. It makes complete sense that Young souls would seek regional or world dominance, just as it makes complete sense that Mature souls would seek international, multicultural dialogue. There is nothing right or wrong with either.

      It seems clear, however, that Mature souls are much worse at running countries than Young souls, at least with regards to the criteria of great national leadership as understood by Young souls. Obama (a Mature Priest) is, by all accounts, pretty ineffective. Thatcher (a Young Scholar), in contrast, made a big difference. (Mind you, when she died recently there were street parties in the UK and the top-selling single the following week was “Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead!”). Blair started off well – his election gave the UK an emotional catharsis, as if everyone wanted to say “at last, a Mature soul is in charge, instead of those nasty, divisive conservatives.” However, he was in a minority within his own party. There are “liberals” and “conservatives” on both sides of the left/right fence.

      It depends, of course, upon your criteria for what distinguishes a good leader from a poor one. Is it wisdom, or is it extraversion? Obama has some fairly introverted overleaves as far as I can tell – no Dominance or Power like Thatcher.

      Younger souls are much more comfortable taking the lead to improve their countries (“Let’s show them who’s best!), while Mature souls are more likely to get lost in trying to accommodate the many factions and lobbies and critics whilst pretending not to.

      Being a bit more evolved internally doesn’t automatically make you a wiser, better, person externally. The combative cut and thrust of confrontational politics isn’t attractive to many Mature souls. It would be silly to say “Republicans are unevolved Young souls while Democrats are more evolved Mature souls.” I think if we put together a Venn diagram, we would see a vast amount of overlap. There are Mature soul Republicans and their are Young soul Democrats.

      I have no agenda either way.

  7. Thanks for your clarification. I feel that I may be a level 7 Young Soul because I have both worldly and spiritual interests but my spiritual (non religious) interests are pragmatically motivated for increasing my economic freedom and emotional happiness but also a desire for a more vacation/enjoyable life this time. I notice that many self help gurus such as the famous Napoleon Hill or Jim Rohn seem to be coming from a mixture of young and mature soul ideals; do you believe there’s a way to correlate the self development guru’s level to one’s own soul level to properly match the best influence for oneself?

    • As a very rough rule of thumb, something like this:

      Fundamentalist teachings. “Do exactly as this old religion says and you’ll be fine; but break the rules and you’ll go to Hell.” How to be good and righteous, clean-living, moral, upright, keep a pure heart, unblemished by the temptations of this world.

      Self-mastery, how to be more attractive, how be more powerful, how to be more successful, the secrets of competing and winning, (or in a religious framework) making the most of the strengths and talents that God has given you, your family, your business, your country. How to thrive in a dog-eat-dog world.

      Self-knowledge and self-acceptance, how to face and embrace your shadow, how to deal with emotional issues, how to negotiate complex relationship issues, how to find peace amidst chaos, how to have an ego without hating yourself for it.

      Inner and outer connectedness. Knowing how to live with paradox – loving things just as they are whilst also seeking to change how things are. Finding unconditional love by giving it. Finding that joy is ever-present. Finding ultimate unity in worldly diversity. Surrendering to the great unknown. Transcending the bounds of human perceptions and concepts. Enjoying life for its own sake while being unattached to any of it – being in the world but not of it.

  8. My complements on the precision and organization of your site; a lot of spiritual or channeled material, such as the Seth material, is not presented in an organized easy to understand way.

    Now, elaborating on the above discussions, I noticed that self help gurus usually teach that thoughts create reality; but my experience has been that thoughts influence how I feel, my health, and decisions but that my beliefs, which are a conglomeration of fixed thought patterns, are where the major impact comes from.

    So A) do you believe that thoughts create reality ? and B) how do you change beliefs that are subconscious? Would you do afformations, repeatedly asking “why am I happy” for example, or what do you recommend?

    • Hi Ernie

      I presume you are the uncle of Vincent (above). It has taken me a short while to get to your comment (though actually I’ve let you jump the queue slightly) — I am on a mission to reduce the size of my inbox, for reasons explained on my Facebook page, but thank you for your patience.

      First, thanks for your kind words about the website. It is, according to the channelled source known here as Michael, my life’s task to “acquire knowledge and share it in a spirit of joy,” and I also have (apparently) an agreement with them (the source) to express their teachings in whatever way feels right, so … Here I am.

      Your questions are of great interest to me. I have dabbled on and off with the area known variously as “New Thought,” “Your thoughts create your reality,” “manifestation,” “the Law of Attraction,” “cosmic ordering”, the Creative Law”, etc… You can see my accounts in my experiential “Journal” posts, all of which (or at least all the ones I’ve got around to writing and posting) can be seen here:

      (Ha, a page that’s just been deemed worthy of one star, I see. Oh well.)

      I’ve divided the posts under several headings, so it’s the seven or so under “Manifestation” that are relevant.

      Anyway, to turn to your specific points.

      A) do you believe that thoughts create reality ?

      Yes, it would be hard not to after what I’ve experienced and experimented with. My wife would say exactly the same – and frequently does, with tears pouring from her eyes.

      I think there are different ways in which our thoughts and beliefs shape how reality unfolds before us. The most immediate of course is within the body, and thus in terms of health and well-being.

      One of my ongoing medical/health challenges is chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) or whatever they’re calling it this week. I’ve noticed that my attitude to the symptoms are part of a loop that feeds right back into my physical state, so when I feel myself getting very fatigued and then take a negative attitude about THAT, the symptoms typically get worse and I start feeling completely debilitated and depressed. But if I can take my perception of symptoms lightly, such as “ok, there’s some fatigue coming now, but it’s probably just a passing phase given my recent activity, and it’ll go away if I rest awhile, and that’s perfectly normal and acceptable, etc…” then the symptoms immediately seem somehow smaller and unthreatening, and when I recover I seem to have rather more energy than before.

      A much more dramatic example is that of the near-death experiencer Anita Moorjani (see, whose book I would strongly recommend.

      But what about changing things non-physically, beyond one’s own body, using the mind? I do believe it happens. I do not fully understand how it “works”, though I certainly do not see it as a linear cause-and-effect thing (“if I strongly wish for X, then by the mighty powers of magic I will cause X to come true).

      I think certain Young souls totally see it like that (eg Alistair Crowley).

      Personally, however, I see reality as a massive network of unfolding possibilities, only some of which ever become “true” (ie turned into manifest reality as we perceive it), and whose movements are sensitive to our individual and collective states and changes of consciousness.

      At any moment we stand poised with a multitude of options radiating out from us, some more strongly than others given our current setup, but none of them “set in stone”. And then our choices – not just our chosen actions but also our chosen attitudes and our chosen desires and chosen objects of attention – somehow make a difference to how the strands of possibilities unravel themselves. Some are magnetically drawn to us because of our positivity and focus and interest, while others are pushed away because of our negativity and avoidance and disbelief.

      I am sure there is some deep interlocking system between consciousness, choice, energy, possibility, actuality, form, space, time, evolution, … Current “theories of everything” come nowhere near it.

      I also think it’s possible for “manifestations” to be set up (by, say, our spirit guides) to catch our attention and shake us out of linear concrete thinking, at least when we are putting this process to the test. For example, I could start thinking to myself “To see if this works, I shall visualise finding a black feather. I see myself finding a black feather, somewhere totally unexpected, and that will be a sign.” And then later that day I find a black feather under my bed. I doubt that my desire to find the feather made the feather magically appear out of nowhere at that place. More likely, the feather had found its there way some time before I started the visualisation, my higher consciousness or my guides spotted it as an opportunity to validate my “power of visualisation”, and THEN the thought of finding a black feather in an unexpected place to test this process occurred to me.

      Or… The improbability of a black feather being under my bed was somehow picked up by by unconscious or higher consciousness – perhaps we can mentally scan for low-probability situations? And then choose to let ourselves be drawn to them?

      So, long story short, I don’t see the universe as a sort of cosmic Amazon shop. Rather, I think the hidden order behind the universe is highly dynamic and responsive, and it molds itself around our collective thoughts, beliefs and feelings.

      B) how do you change beliefs that are subconscious? Would you do afformations, repeatedly asking “why am I happy” for example, or what do you recommend?

      I completely agree that conscious positive thoughts can be contradicted (and counteracted) by unconscious negative ones. A typical one is the conscious thought “I want to be a millionaire” being repeated but in competition with one’s unconscious beliefs like “Money is the root of all evil” and ” Rich people are selfish bastards…” Things are unlikely to change much from that state of conflict.

      Actually, I will alter that to say: the universe will change in such a way that the conflict itself surfaces into one’s everyday reality. We might suddenly start seeing more books or tv shows about the good and bad uses of money. It might become a topic of discussion with our workmates. We might meet someone who is rich and another person who is voluntarily poor. We are inviting the contrast into our perceived lives, as it reflects the conflicting thoughts and beliefs within us. This MIGHT then wake us up to the fact that we hold the contradictory ideas — “wait a minute, why do I hate this rich guy while at the same time I want to be just like him?” I think in this way, experimenting with manifestation consciously and with self-awareness can be an excellent growth tool.

      I find that repeating affirmations is only useful insofar as it helps remind me what I am wanting, so that I can then tune into it and feel it more fully. Saying “I see myself as very rich” a hundred times a day can become a pointless and empty exercise if all it does is interrupt your thoughts while you fixate on this one sentence or phrase.

      The value (for me) in repeating an affirmation is to get behind the deepest meaning of it and so use it as a signpost for my feelings — I try to feel my way into the ideal state that I am seeking. Not a state of feeling desperate for money! but a state of loving how much money I have flowing to me and through me. I imagine myself having lots of money, and ask myself how it feels – does it feel great as I expected? If not, why not? Do I have some subconscious fear or guilt or some other issue in the way? And sometimes I find that the words I use have to change because they are not conveying the intended meaning as fully or clearly as I wish.

      I also try (or rather, allow myself) to feel this target state as being in complete harmony with the flow of the universe. In other words, the universe is happy to mold itself around me in this way, and everything in the world is still perfect. I’m not selfishly “taking” money from anybody else, not violating anyone else’s will or exploiting them – that’s not how the circulation of abundance works.

      Affirmations that have particularly worked for me:

      • I am here because I deserve to be here.
      (This is to counteract my inner demon of self-deprecation/self-disparagement and sense of inadequacy)

      • I deserve complete happiness and freedom.
      (Again, counteracting my lack of self-belief)

      • I am feeling my presence and allowing the universe to flow freely though me
      (This is a kind of meditation to help get my ego and stuff out of the way – it can get me really high on energy….)

      And specifically in terms of manifestation:
      • All good things are coming to me, naturally.
      • More and more, my life is filled with joy.
      • Money comes to me abundantly and easily.
      • I allow my life to be saturated with love.

      Hope this helps,



    • Thank you and may God/Source give you strength for your health challenges. Remember to watch positive/funny comedies or things that make you laugh as that helps the immune system. Just FYI, there’s a new technique called “afformations” (with an o) from Noah St. John where he claims that stating the positive question (why am I abundant? for example) rather than a statement (I am abundant) as in a traditional affirmation, helps reduce the resistance where the mind says no its not true; he says its because the afformation unlike the affirmation, is in the form of a “why”question and it avoids the inner conflict. Its worth your looking into.


    • Thanks Ernie. Yes, I came across something similar recently in the psychology research literature. In an experiment, people who said “I WILL eat less” did nowhere near as well as those who asked themselves “CAN I eat less?” The statement “I will” sets up a conflict in most people. (I suppose the very faithful could state “God will” and avoid such conflict.) But “Can I?” invites your whole mind to react “Of course, why not, let’s see now…” I think it also keeps free will on the table, while “I will” is putting your free will at stake. If you say “I will” and it doesn’t happen, then you might interpret it to mean that your will power is powerless, in which case, we might say “I will” but not really MEAN it, as a way to avoid that sense of personal failure.

  9. Hi, I didn’t want to bother you any further but my uncle Ernest’s question got deleted from your site for some reason. His question was whether you believed thoughts do create reality, as the gurus say, and what your strategy would be to change ones beliefs especially if they are subconscious.

  10. I’ve been told I’m level 9 by someone in my soul group during meditation but the whole baby soul thing sounds like the complete opposite of me. Maybe it’s the interests and motivations I have I’m kinda nerdy on the soul level.

  11. As a shining example of Baby Souls I might bring up the examples of, firstly, many Latter Day Saints (Mormons), or more obviously, the Duggar family from “20 Kids and Counting.” In the latter case I find it interesting that their daughter Jinger appears to be closer to a Young soul which may set her up for conflict with her Baby family members later.

    • Once again, totally agree with your judgement, Katie. And Jinger does look Young.

      Must admit, though, I had to look them up – in our household (two Mature souls with an Old soul child) we tend to watch complex dramas and irony-laden comedies! Ok, and talent shows.



  12. What a patronizing, megalomaniac load of crap this article is. Pat Boone had “baby soul” because you don’t agree with him, right? Of course all the “old souls” are somewhat related to the New Age movement or promote it’s goals in some way. You probably believe the “star children” theory too, right?

  13. Hi Barry,
    I am new to your site and find it very thought provoking. Just some 101 type questions —How does one determine what soul level they are currently in?
    Is death at an young age more characteristic of any one soul level than others? Is addiction more prominent in any one soul level than others?
    Thanks for anything you can share on these topics.

    • Hi Kathy

      Soul age — (a) What resonates as most like you as you read the descriptions? (b) Get a reading from a Michael channel. Chances are you’re a mature soul (like me); my website seems to attract ’em!

      Early death — there’s no single reason. Infant souls often go for “early” death because they are learning the basics of life and death in physical form. (This time, plague. Next time, eaten by predators…) But apart from that, there’s no real correlation with soul age. It’s usually a matter of choice. Sometimes a child will die because the parents (as souls, before life) have something to learn from the experience, and the child (ditto) has volunteered for the part. Sometimes it’s a karmic experience.

      Addiction — there are of course different kinds of addiction. At the risk of generalising, Young souls enjoy the ego-buzz and hyper-confidence they can feel on cocaine, heedless of how it makes them come across to others. Mature and Old souls feeling overwhelmed often turn to alcohol and other downers for their numbing effect. Mature souls are probably most vulnerable as they have so much on their plate, especially if living in a predominantly younger-souled family/culture which doesn’t support their need for inner reflection, self-discovery and emotional authenticity.

  14. Thank you so much Barry for your timely response! I will keep studying your site — I have been doing so since yesterday. I am experiencing a deep level of inner conflict over my daughter’s death almost 7 years ago. She was 21 years old and died from cardiac arrest in her sleep. She fits some of the description of self-destructive personality although not to an extreme. Her death was not immediately attributable to drugs or alcohol, although she had struggled with those in her past. I cannot pinpoint any obvious trauma or abuse in her past other than mean girl bullying in school, which leads me to suspect that she did not feel the level of love that she needed from us, and this hurts me to my core. She was a Scorpio (I am a Leo), firstborn, and even at early ages showed signs of emotional extremes. She had a brother born when when she was 2 and 1/2 and she was very loving toward him, but often played the “you love him more than me” card with me and her Father. All in all, she was a beautiful soul (both physically and spiritually in terms of caring and loyalty), who seemed tormented in that she did devalue herself, and often rebuffed my attempts to love her and kept secrets from me — which I assumed was “normal” during those teenage years. I think she was an artisan soul. I am familiar with the pre-planning of souls before birth. So, I am trying to reconcile her courage with choosing to die young (if that was the case), with the truth that I may have fallen short in persevering in showing her the kind of love that she needed. It is extremely painful to contemplate that you as a parent contributed to your child’s death.
    She seemed to have a “sense” of her upcoming death — she made these statements “I feel like God has something special planned for me” “If anything happens to me, it’s not you and Dad’s fault”. Even her friends, after she passed, came to tell us that second statement. Yet, paradoxically, I have since had 3 different psychic mediums tell me that I am a giver, and to be careful giving so much. I have also had them tell me that “something was left unfinished” between my daughter and I which is very frustrating.
    And though I put myself into these periodic journeys to try and understand why she died, and what was left unfinished, the only time I find momentary peace is when I say to myself ” lean not on my own understanding” — it is not for me to “figure out”, and was probably out of my control to stop.
    Needless to say, this world and my life definitely is diminished for me without her, and the most important thing to me is to see her and talk with her and love her again. If this is a lesson, I would not wish it on anyone.
    I apologize for a long backstory. As far as what level of soul that I identify with most — it seems like I am progressing through the stages just within this lifetime.
    Thank you again for your caring and sharing your insights,

  15. Hi, Barry. You described me nearly to a “T”, with the derails of a Baby soul. My question is this: Can/does an individual progress, to any degree, from one level to another during a single human lifetime? Or, am I to expect to experience the Young soul (shiver!) In a future lifetime to learn the opposite experience of being a Baby soul?
    Look forward to hearing from you.

    • Well, first thing to say is that I’d be curious to know your current physical age as it’s possible you are older as a soul but simply haven’t manifested fully yet so far. We all start each life as if back at square 1 in terms of how we think and act – it takes the first 3-4 decades of life to adapt to each new body, society, language, lifestyle, etc. If you are, say, 20, you might actually be a young soul but just haven’t begun to express that yet. (You could even be a mature soul with a heavy case of self-deprecation!)

      Ok, that said and assuming that your sense that you ARE a baby soul is correct, then things will unfold naturally in good time. You are absolutely free to develop and advance as much as you choose, but there is no need to rush out of some kind of fear of lagging behind. Realistically, we don’t jump steps in a single life (not without a near death experience, at least); nor is there any need to.

      The young soul phase – interesting that you find it distasteful, as this is typical of both baby souls and mature souls, for different reasons. But fear not, the young soul phase is where you really shine as a worldly being and a free agent. And while you are in it, you cannot imagine anything attractive about being a baby soul (too regimented and square) or being a mature soul (too worthy and sensitive).

      Perspective changes forever – that is the very nature of soul evolution. From the perspective one has at any given point, it can be hard to appreciate what’s good about any other perspectives. But that appreciation is also what develops with soul evolution. There comes a point where all levels look equally valid and valuable.

      Hope this helps.


  16. Could you say that our political divisions are between baby souls and mature souls, with young souls the swing votes? Particularly on the Brexit referendum, it seems to me that the baby souls are the ones who will vote to oppose immigration: oppose free movement because they want to live in a place where everyone is like them. Conversely, the mature souls are now grieving at the thought of losing a diverse society: they embrace diversity, they want to live with people of every background. Young souls are somewhere in the middle.

    The challenge for politics may be to accept that immigration is going to generate a backlash amongst those who are not mature souls. Yet we all have to get on with each other. It’s a difficult issue, but understanding that there are these big differences between personalities is helpful.

    • I think you’re basically correct, though there are more complexities and subtleties to take into account.

      Baby souls will go with what they assume is best for “our kind”, because our kind is obviously good and those who aren’t like us are scarily different. So it depends on which social group or culture they most identify with. A traditional “little England” patriot would fit the mold of xenophobic anti-immigration. But what about, say, a Baby soul of proud Italian descent? Or a Baby soul of Pakistani descent who perceives the little-england patriots as scarily different? So it isn’t necessarily the case that Baby soul = anti-immigration per se, though I do suspect that the majority would be that way.

      Young souls by nature have the strongest convictions and are the most vociferous in trying to “swing” everybody else to agree with them. They themselves don’t “swing”, even when they do, at least not in their own eyes. They know that they are right, always have been and always will be, and those who disagree need to be told just how wrong they are.

      Mature souls will be naturally more inclined to vote in a way that is inclusive (hence remain), but they lack the outspoken conviction of Young souls; they also naturally resist/resent being interfered with by power-hungry Young souls, and if they currently see the govt or the EU or whatever in that light then they are likely to vote negatively as a protest (hence Leave), or just not vote at all – thereby inadvertently handing the victory to the wrong side – which I suspect has just happened.

      I would even guess that Mature souls are most likely the real swing voters because they are more fluid in their perspectives and opinions. When it comes to voting on a complex matter, I sense something like the following cyclical struggle in Mature souls: They will try to fully understand the issues to make the best decision fairly, but then get overwhelmed with the complexity as well as sorting out valid arguments from misinformation, and then dismiss the whole thing as all divisive nonsense perpetrated by despicable politicians, and decide not to vote as a way to express their disgust, but then they learn of others doing the same thing for the same reasons, and they hate to be seen as just one of the herd with no thoughts of their own, so they will rethink their own decision by trying to understand the issues again. The way they actually vote will depend on wherever they happened to be as they were going round the cycle for the umpteenth time …

  17. Definitely. Country music still vaguely embodies the values of traditional structure in community, family and relationships. Though, it seems to be evolving to become more young souly and glamorized. (Turn on a country station and you’ll see what I mean.) I wonder if that’s because the population of the American South is aging soul-wise. Ted Cruz was still more popular than Donald Trump down there…(not that Cruz is a baby soul; he is just a more traditional conservative.) But Trump probably wouldn’t have won if there were more baby souls who were offended by his lack of conservative social graces.

    Rap and hip hop culture also has a community aspect, but it’s more of a collective young soul celebration of burgeoning personal success and youth. (How many variations of “I wanna be forever young” am I going to hear on the radio?) Actually, I’ve heard a lot of people complain that rap and hip used to be more mature and express more meaningful ideas. Maybe the genre itself has returned to and is sustaining that desired youth…I wonder why. Economic reasons?

    • As a possible example of a baby soul entertainer, see what you make of the recently deceased Debbie Reynolds, mother of Carrie Fisher. I just saw a TV docu about the two of them. Debbie seemed like a Baby Sage to me, while Carrie I guess was a Young Warrior.

    • I see the Scholarliness, possibly Priest cast, but to be honest the soul age is eluding me. The usual giveaway with Baby souls is a look of child-like transparency, as though their private thoughts were written all over their face, or at least in their eyes. Young souls, in contrast, often look like they are trying to show one thing while hiding everything else. So, sorry to be of little help in this case, but I just can’t really tell from this pic.

  18. On Debbie Reynolds: I definitely see it! In both her youth and elder years. I think of baby soul women in their youth as classic beauties/personalities and in their elder years as quintessential sweet old ladies.

    I don’t think I’ve met many baby souls. I wish there were more around here. They’re interesting creatures.

  19. Just had an argument with someone who I realized was a baby soul afterward, probably a baby priest…I got angry but then realized the disconnect between us and how it was more than just about our different experiences in our current lives. I was offended by how rigid she was but I like talking to people who are confident in their views and don’t question themselves much…it’s refreshing. She wasn’t talking from a place of ego but a place of sureness. The only reason some of us aren’t sure of our views is because doubt creeps in after having contradictory experiences throughout lifetimes. I wish mature and old souls would learn to respond differently to people of each soul age.

    Btw…how is Whoopi Goldberg an old soul???? How could anyone on The View be and old soul????

  20. This article reminds me so much of my father-in-law! He constantly drones on about how I need to attend church regularly, (I never really did nor do I particularly want to), How ALL ‘non-believers’ are ‘anti-Christs’, is addicted to Fox News, and constantly rails about how current world events are relevant to the Book of Revelation. He seems to have trouble with understanding different perspectives, especially in political and spiritual matters. He is an AC and is absolutely convinced his church is the right church, as evidenced by a recent lecture about the evils of the ‘world church’ (whatever that is). The in-laws and my wife and I live in one house to better care for the kids and the in-laws’ health, but he is starting to annoy me. He seems to embody the ‘do it my way’ philosophy. I’m more ‘live and let live’, and let him have his way, as I have always sought and enjoy solitude (I’m MBTI type INFP), which overlays rather closely with the ‘old soul’ descriptions I have read on this and other sites. Perhaps I am one, I’m not really sure, but my detached and laissez-faire tendencies are not well liked by the FIL, who wishes I was more social (I would be if people would chat about more meaningful things! Money, people, ‘stuff ‘, kids, the weather, jobs, BLAH!) To quote my wife: “You’d happily live in a tar-paper shack!”. Indeed I would as long as it served its intended purpose adequately. I often wonder if getting married was the right choice for me, given my solitary tendencies. I do wish I could have a good conversation with someone I live with, but subjects like the Civil War, the Holocaust, the Titanic, ancient civilizations, and UNbiased spirituality are my sovereign domain in my home. In general, I can count the number of folks I have ever felt truly at ease and bonded with on the fingers of one hand and they do NOT include the Mrs, or mom and pop, most of them being at least 15 years senior to me. Oh, and I often get chided for loose relations with my family. Life is good.

    • Thanks Wayne
      I can only guess you’ve chosen it to be that way for a good reason! Best of luck.

  21. So If I hate baby souls and think they’re childish and annoying, is that an indication that I’m a young, mature, or old soul? Or would that make me an infant soul? I actually also think young souls are shitty and fake, because they only care about status. Not sure how I feel about mature souls. Maybe I’m a level 1 mature because I’m not too good at relationships yet. I also find them to be a little daunting and they take up my me time, or they’re just not willing to cooperate how I want them to, so that can be annoying. If I’ve ever met an old soul, they’re probably those crazy people who are always happy and like to wave at me and talk a lot, right? That’s not me. Are there quieter old souls, or would that be a mature soul? I’m really not a relationship heavy person, I kinda mind my own business and let everyone do their thing, hopefully they’ll not bother me about mine.

    • I would have to ask how old you are. Your physical age can affect your perceptions and behaviour a great deal until you reach approx 35-40. A mature soul at age 20 will think and act more like a young soul, for example.

    • What if I don’t like mature souls? Does that make me a young soul? And, are mature souls actually more mature, or do are they just more open to different experiences and purposes because all their lifetimes made them bored with the same old? (They could still be closed minded if they don’t bother to learn about different perspectives, but are still interested in other kinds of diversity.) It’s not like people’s minds are forced open with age. It seems like we actually have to put the effort into learning about different perspectives to understand and accept them, and that’s not something anyone just falls into doing without working past their ego…which everyone has to put up a struggle to do.

  22. #comment-685556

    Hey, not sure why I can’t reply directly to your comment, Barry, but I’m 24 years old. I do care about relationships, but I can never seem to get them to work out. It might just be because I’m too detached from them, but also I think I’m really just not any good at them, either. Maybe my soul isn’t supporting relationships in this life. My lessons from relationships seem to just be more detachment, but also sensitivity, like not leading others on, and not treating them like they’re just material objects. So, if I’m not interested, then I shouldn’t get involved, that type of thing.

    Somehow I think I also have a lot of karma with African-Americans when it comes to relationships (and I bring this up because I read that African-Americans are usually mature souls), as I’m getting tricked by them a lot, as if I’m naiive or too trusting, or I don’t live up to their expectations of how a relationship between two people should be. I also find them to usually be too outwardly brash and needy when I’m just being honest in my behavior. There was this black girl who kept on asking me really personal questions as if it was normal to her, and I told her I’m not an open person and it seems like she wouldn’t understand that. So what do you think in terms of what my soul age and level would be?

  23. Confirmed : I am a 2nd level Old King with 9 previous cycles, and Sage casting with a dis-carnate Scholar essence twin.

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