According to many spiritual teachers, all human beings are, in reality, spiritual beings on a human journey. We reincarnate as human beings in order to evolve as souls.
Our ultimate aim is to become fully conscious and capable as unique individual expressions of All That Is. It is a long journey, but that’s okay because the soul is eternal.
Contents
Soul Evolution
The soul’s journey is really a process of evolving. This means growing in consciousness, steadily progressing through different levels or stages of consciousness. How do we grow in consciousness? Through taking on challenging experiences in physical form. These cause us to make important, “soul-searching” choices and call upon us to discover our inner resources. But why in physical form? Why would a perfectly happy spiritual being decide to inhabit the physical realm with all of its limitations and difficulties? It is precisely so that we can experience the state of what feels like total separation from others and from the rest of reality. Only by going into this physically separated human form can we know ourselves as beings in our own right, and not just as … well … undifferentiated blobs of energy. Being physical throws our experiences and choices into extremely sharp relief in a way that is not possible otherwise. This is how we learn who we are and how to become all that we are. In other words:
Choice and the ramifications of choice provide the essential lessons of life. In a very real sense, you choose to be here in order to make choices.
Messages from Michael
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
The 35 Steps
We are here to know ourselves and be all we can be, step by step. And according to the teachings of the entity known as Michael, there are 35 steps to the reincarnational process. The body and personality you have now are merely the vehicles you have chosen for this latest step in your journey.
But why 35 steps? Why not 36 steps? Or 10? Or 100?
It is simply because, according to Michael, we go through five major stages of evolution through reincarnation. And, within each stage there are seven increments or levels to be completed. (Yes, it is rather like a computer game.) 5 x 7 = 35. 
Each single step requires a whole lifetime to complete. In fact, each step usually requires more than one lifetime. Typically, the entire journey of 35 steps takes well over a hundred lifetimes. So let’s look at the journey in more detail. We’ll start with the five major stages of soul evolution through reincarnation.
The Five Stages
The Michael teachings describe a sequence of five “cycles” or stages of soul evolution. They are named after the stages of human development:
- Stage 1: The INFANT Soul
- Stage 2: The BABY Soul [also known as CHILD Soul]
- Stage 3: The YOUNG Soul
- Stage 4: The MATURE Soul
- Stage 5: The OLD Soul
Each of these five corresponds to a specific level of development in capability and self-awareness within the individual soul. As the soul goes through each stage, the focus changes, more experience is gained, and consciousness expands. 
Incidentally, the same pattern of soul evolution has been identified by the hypnotherapist Michael Newton (right). His groundbreaking research was published in the best-selling book Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Llewellyn, 1994). The books by Newton and his students draw upon thousands of transcripts of people who, under hypnotic regression, have re-experienced being between lives. From the higher perspective of their soul they are able to explain what happens after death and before birth. This includes information about the levels of consciousness through which reincarnating souls evolve. What Newton and others have discovered is that souls between lives exist in light-form, and that each soul emanates a particular colour of the spectrum which indicates its current level of consciousness. The spectrum begins at white (all colours) but then goes through red, yellow, green, blue, to deep purple and violet. From low frequency to high frequency. The least evolved souls — the “newbies” — have a pinkish hue. The oldest souls — those nearing the end of the whole reincarnational cycle — have a blueish hue. Although the spectrum is a continuum, Dr. Newton has found that it can be divided into five distinct stages or levels of evolvement, from Level I to Level V. These can be mapped onto the five stages given in the Michael teachings, from Infant soul to Old soul.
So, for example, souls in the middle (or third) stage of reincarnation are referred to as “Young souls” in the Michael teachings and they are at what Newton would call “Level III”. They will have a yellowish or golden hue. (As an aside, both Newton and the Michael entity also identify higher levels of soul evolution which do not involve reincarnation.) The stages of reincarnation (or soul age) can also be likened to the stages of metamorphosis we see in nature, such as egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly. In reincarnation, though, what changes is not the physical form but the mode of consciousness, especially the form of self-awareness and — as a result — the way of relating to others.
A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Soul age characteristics
Soul age affects how an individual lives, thinks, acts, and comes across to others. 
Stage 1 — Infant Souls
Infant souls focus on immediate survival needs. They flourish in simple environments close to nature, such as remote tribes or rural, pastoral settings.
In the context of modern society, however, they can come across as uncivilised simpletons or yokels, and may even be deemed to be psychopathic or have some sort of developmental disorder.
Psychologically, infant souls are naive, impulsive and “pre-conventional”, acting on impulse or habit with little or no thought for consequences.
Because they lack both social understanding and self-inhibition, they are capable of committing antisocial or immoral acts without any sense of wrongdoing. As such, they do not fit well within modern society and may end up in prison or in psychiatric units.
While they may lack the moral principles, social graces and cultural understanding of older souls, Infant souls are in a sense completely innocent, being without pretense or agenda.
Stage 2 — Baby Souls
In contrast to Infant souls, Baby souls think a great deal about the rights and wrongs of their actions. Their lives are about safety, security, structure and order — rigidly so. They like to live in communities that are highly principled and “civilized” (think of the Amish).
Baby souls come across to older souls as rather “square” – strictly conventional and conformist. Both their beliefs and their actions are largely rule-bound, so they are often ultra-conservative, traditionalist, orthodox, upright, moralistic, religiously devout, and mindful of law and order.
That said, they will occasionally give in to temptation, or temper tantrum, and break the rules themselves — but then might find themselves tortured with guilt and shame.
They are acutely aware of the rights and wrongs of people’s actions, including their own, though they have little insight into the motives behind them. Bad behaviour is sinful, and that’s that.
Stage 3 — Young Souls 
Young souls tend to be extravert, outward-bound, worldly, frenetically energetic, brash, competitive, political, ambitious and individualistic. Life at this stage is about thinking for oneself and asserting oneself as an individual.
Young souls are more ego-driven than others, keen to make their mark in the world. They are generally attracted to some form of worldly success — fame, fortune, power, glory. In fact, they are more fearful of death than souls at other stages, and those who aren’t sure about life after death may be anxious to make a big impact on the world stage, to create some kind of symbolic immortality for themselves.
Young souls cling to their own opinions, with a certainty that their own perspective is the right perspective, and their way ahead is by far the best way. They are very aware of their own agenda but do not really question it.
Stage 4 Mature souls 
Mature souls tend to be more reflective than younger souls, with a growing understanding of self, growing empathy for others, and a desire for authenticity in both. Life is less about proving oneself, and more about exploring “right relationship”.
Mature soul consciousness is no longer egocentric, in the sense of being limited to one’s own perspective and agenda, but is capable of accommodating multiple perspectives and different agendas. In fact, there is now a tension between “what I want” and “appreciating what you want,” or between the personal and the interpersonal.
This makes life much more complicated — sometimes overwhelmingly so. On the one hand, mature souls reject narrow-minded values. Yet on the other hand, they are able to empathise with whoever holds those same values. Fixed opinions are replaced by a sense of ever-shifting perspectives — “It all depends on how you look at it”.
This disappearance of solid ground can be hugely stressful, but it kicks off a search for deeper meaning and self-understanding, whether through art, psychology, philosophy or spirituality.
Mature souls tend to question everything, including their own motives, and are prone to do a lot of soul-searching (literally).
Stage 5 — Old Souls 
Old souls tend to exude some degree of depth, gravitas or wisdom that is quite obvious. In children, it can be most striking (think: old head on young shoulders) For having moved beyond the stresses and conflicts of the Mature soul, Old souls have a growing sense of inner peace and freedom — the freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it.
Compared to younger souls they are relatively calm, measured, untroubled and stable, unattached to social structures and cultural expectations, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others.
On the other hand, finding themselves in a world that is so conflicted, chaotic, frantic, and superficial can be utterly depressing.
For Old souls, the aim of life is to find true self-expression and fulfillment. As such, they tend to go their own unique way in life, letting go and letting be, in a detached way that may seem very weird and eccentric to younger souls.
Late-stage old souls find themselves consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is, and often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion.
Note: These descriptions emphasise the differences between stages. In reality, though, there is a gradual blend from one stage to the next. A person at the start of the Mature stage, for example, will act mostly like a Young soul but with elements of Mature soul nature beginning to emerge.
The lessons of each stage
Here are the five stages of soul evolution through human reincarnation, together with the typical learning experiences associated with each stage:
So we begin reincarnating as Infant souls, complete novices at physical existence. At this first stage we are largely in a state of incompetence and terror, frankly. But through experiences and choices we learn and grow. We steadily progress from being Infant souls to Baby souls to Young souls to Mature souls. Finally, we enter the fifth stage as accomplished Old souls, the experts of human existence.
As infant souls we learned about choices having to do with survival, as baby souls choices having to do with moral codes and ethics, as young souls choices having to do with mastery of achievement, as mature souls choices having to do with relationships, and as old souls choices having to do with the nature of oneness with the Tao. An infant soul would therefore not understand the choices of an old soul although an older soul would likely have more understanding of the nature of younger soul choice having had them.
Michael, via Victoria Marina
To look at each stage in more detail see:
Stage 1. The Infant Soul
Stage 2. The Baby Soul
Stage 3. The Young Soul
Stage 4. The Mature Soul
Stage 5. The Old Soul
Soul levels in the human population
The six or seven billion people on the planet span the whole range of stages, but the average is said to be somewhere just past the mid-point of stage 3 (see chart below). In other words, this world is currently dominated by Young souls whose primary focus is competitive self-advancement.
The seven steps within each stage
Within each stage there are seven discrete steps to go through. In the Michael teachings, they are called “levels”, so in each stage we proceed from 1st level to 7th level. Calling these “levels” can be a bit confusing (since Newton refers to the five major stages as “levels”), so I sometimes prefer to call them “steps”. So each stage of reincarnation has seven distinct learning steps. For example, we begin the whole journey at step 1 as Infant souls, learn that lesson, then undertake step 2 as Infant souls, and so on. On completing the 7th step of the Infant stage, we then begin the 1st step of the Baby stage.
The early steps in any stage are about experiencing life at this new stage of evolution, learning the essential lessons through appropriate experiences. The later steps are about expressing those lessons, demonstrating this level of consciousness in action. For example, in the Young soul stage, the first three steps — from 1st level Young soul to 3rd level Young soul — are about discovering the meaning of free will and self-determination; the last three steps — 5th level Young soul to 7th level Young soul — are about demonstrating the meaning of free will and self-determination in action. (The middle step — 4th level Young soul — is about consolidating the lessons learned.) The first step or level of any stage is like putting a toe in the water; the final step is like teaching others how to swim:
| 1st Level | Initiation into the new stage. “Toe in the water.” First glimpses of the new consciousness. We come to recognise that there is a whole new way of being ahead of us, and we respond to the call, even though as yet it is beyond our comprehension. |
| 2nd Level | Building foundations. Wading in and out. Comparing and contrasting the old and new consciousness. We come to understand what is essential and different about this higher level, though it still remains ‘ahead’ of us, not quite within us. |
| 3rd Level | Rising to the challenge. Taking the plunge. We determinedly commit ourselves to actively embrace and explore the new consciousness. |
| 4th Level | Integration. Relaxing into it, “enjoying the water.” We now identify ourselves with this way of understanding self, life and others – this is our truth. We fully incorporate and consolidate the new consciousness into our own being. |
| 5th Level | Expression. Splashing about – “Look at me!” We openly share and communicate our new, true sense of self and of life’s meaning. We feel drawn to broadcast our truth, to “go public” with it. |
| 6th Level | Demonstration. Giving value and benefit to others. “Being a life guard.” Our new consciousness is put to the test. We also burn off any outstanding karma incurred in the earlier steps of this stage. |
| 7th Level | Mastery. Peak performance. We have complete understanding and control of our awareness at this level. We know exactly what we are doing. We may feel like a role model. Hmm… What’s next? |
This sequence of seven steps is repeated through each stage, making 35 steps in all from the beginning of reincarnation to the end. In case you’re wondering, I’m at the 5th level of the Mature soul stage. My current life’s lesson is about outwardly expressing my Mature soul consciousness.
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
Many lives
So, we start our evolutionary journey at level 1 of stage I (as “1st Level Infant souls”) and end it at level 7 of stage 5 (as “7th Level Old souls”). There are 35 steps in all. And each single step requires at least one lifetime to complete. A single step can be done in one lifetime but often that’s too big a stretch, so an initial life may undertaken as a taster, followed by one or two more which really go for it. Sometimes a life is interrupted, and the soul will just have to start over in the next life. Also, some lives are undertaken for reasons other than the specific intent to develop. For example, one lifetime might be undertaken primarily to assist another soul in their development. And some lives are taken on primarily for the death experience, for karmic reasons. These can be very short, of the order of days, weeks or months. Taking into account all the gaps spent in the non-physical state between lives, a single step is typically accomplished in about 100-300 years of Earth time. The whole journey of 35 steps usually takes well over 100 lifetimes. Hence, the whole journey is likely to take of the order of 7,000-8,000 years, but possibly a lot more if the population is low and opportunities to incarnate are few.
Questions and Answers
Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why don’t we just give up and be done with it? Can’t I just decide that this is my last time?
You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the soul’s perspective). You wouldn’t rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, it’s more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly well that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. That’s what the game is all about.
Who says?
There’s no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to “graduate” and who doesn’t. It’s just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. There’s a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And we’ve all signed up for it.
But why? What’s it all about?
Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life.
How does it do that?
By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self.
And that’s why we are here?
We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realised beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.
More frequently asked questions
- What happens to our souls after our last reincarnation?
- How can I speed up / skip levels / stop reincarnating?
- How can I know my soul age level, etc?
More on Soul Evolution
Books
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The Michael Handbook by José Stevens and Simon Warwick-Smith [Amazon] |
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Sojourn: Karma, Reincarnation, and the Evolution of the Soul by Gina Lake [Amazon] |
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Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives by Michael Newton [Amazon] |
Here is where I’m not clear and I teach this stuff. I studied under a very high Eastern Guru, comparable to Neem Karoli Baba, and that philosophy is consciousness evolves and the human form in physical is kind of a pinnacle. So we’ve all been “up the ladder”. Michael Newton, in Journey of Sou’s insists, a la the Aquarian Gospel of Christ, that souls come out on planes, humans as humans, animals as animals, etc. Yet hypnotherapy regressions in the East find memories of animal lives.
In Robert Schwartz’s “Your Soul’s Gift”, the channeled material is more to the latter. Humans and animals develop soul journeys on separate tracks. They said animals do not particularly like human incarnation because of the intensity of emotion and extreme of polarity. Therefore crossover is minimal.
MY own gut says a couple of things because I really don’t know the answer. One, once you are human, however you got here, i think you are on the human track (in general). Big flip flopping a lot is possible but doers not seem consistent with emerging intuitive studies. Second, animals definitely have souls and soul development. My understanding is at less developed species there is “group soul”, like bees and ants. Third, all are equal, since all are consciousness itself. The Native people’s understood this better than we do.
Last, there is no “waste of time” or “lack of patience”. “God” is eternity itself. A billion years is a millisecond. All moves according to plan.
I think for us here, the issue is, what level am I, what is my contract or intention (lessons and experiences I desire for growth-or just to experience) in this expansion, how can I maximize this life experience in the context of my soul journey.
Hope this helps.
Going by your statment “Eventually, the point is reached at which physical embodiment is no longer of evolutionary value. The individuated soul consciousness out-grows its physical nursery.”
Will it be okay for me to deduce…that most simple souls (perhaps newly detached from TAO) start of from a body like a virus or cocervate and gradually evolves through more complex organisms…growing simultaneously in levels of consciousness eventually reaching the human form as the point is reached at which physical embodiment is no longer of evolutionary value…but spiritual in nature and stays in human form from there on….? And there still might be other souls who “at a particular time might have evolved enough on some other planet or life system that got destroyed, or may be as a rare desire of change of a planet” for them to be eligible to get into a human body directly on earth?
I’m not sure if I’m answering your question here, but I would say yes, there is presumably a path from simple life forms to complex life forms… But I would also guess it is not the only path. It might be that most of the life force taking physical form is happy to animate the simpler forms without ever seeking to “graduate” (say from plant to animal). As far as I am aware there is no “onus” on essence to evolve out of lower forms/levels to higher forms/levels. I could be wrong, but I would imagine that it is probably just as perfectly fulfilling for essence to take the form of bacteria, or to remain formless, as it is to reincarnate as human beings.
Although humans (and probably many other species throughout the universe) represent the leading edge of evolution through reincarnation – Earth is said to be a particularly tough finishing school – I suspect that such evolution is far from the only path that is being explored and enjoyed by the essence of all that is. It is often said that the beings we call angels are not on any path that involves reincarnation. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that, say, 99% of all spiritual beings don’t ever take physical form at all.
PS – I’m not sure what you mean by “stays in human form from there on…” There are further non-physical stages of evolution beyond physical reincarnation, and human form does not really come into it.
Well put.
You didn’t read my reply. There is no consensus on this. What you describe is very common in Eastern religions, especially Hinduism. There consciousness or “soul” starts in primitive form and “moves up the ladder”. I was told by a psychic once my first conscious incarnation was 65 million years ago as a plant on another planet. Maybe so. AS I said, others like Newton and Schwartz insist that however you come in, you come in on the “strata” you began. Animals are animals, plants are plants, humans are humans. Schwartz suggest some minimal crossover where in Hinduism you can bounce all over the place, going from human form to animal or plant and back again quite often, depending on your proclivities and “last thought”. Ram Das related a story of Neem Karoli Baba strangely eating a big meal out of nowhere which he said later helped a disciple stay in human form in his next incarnation.
My own sense says what you described is probably more true. My only concern is, like the Judeo-Christian tradition, it puts humans at the top and implies animals and other forms as inferior in some way. The elegance of animal soul journey in Schwartz is quite pronounced. WE truly don’t know.
I think you are correct that there are souls who are primarily from other systems who have not spent a lot of time here. Newton suggests many have never taken physical incarnation before this one. This can create what is called “foreigner syndrome”, a deep sense of displacement and unease at being here.
In the end, as I suggested, however we got here, the pint now is what do we do with it? I suggest reading Journey and Destiny of Souls (two books) and the works of Robert Schwartz to tune in more to the contract-intention and agreements you made before you were born. Becoming more aware of what you desired to balance, experience, learn helps a great deal with soul alignment in the present moment.
Tx Ken for your inputs.
@ Barry: by “stays in human form from there on…” I was being specific to the reincarnations in physical realm only…I mean if a soul decides to take upon the journey of physical rebirths it would pass through all the or atleast a good mix of physical organisms on the planet (there Could be an exact progression sequence that we are not aware of perhaps depending on genetic complexity or lets say brain body mass…. vertebrates or non vertebrates, mammals or non mammals etc… to reach a consciousness level expanded enough to start to integrate with human brains which takes the expansion of consciousness to a different level and there is no looking back, and it gets on to the 35 stages and stays in human body till its out of the reincarnation cycle…..By the way contrary to common beliefs core Hinduism doent not support the Idea of a human getting born back as an animal at least never as a common practice… …it talks about the yoni system (all the organisms on the planet aprx 64 Lakh types of species , not sure how accurate that figure is) and that its the same soul that evolve through the younis and eventually gains a human body. I know there are things that indicate otherwise but its all open for debate….
I understand that for the essence its absolutely equally enjoyable to be a human being or a blade of grass….but I doubt if the soul element that is nothing but a fragment of essence with an ego awareness of being different from the essence and having a perceived individuality would take both the experiences as equal. Because if that was the case then the soul fragment would have already realized itself…
Or to quote from Emmanuel’s Book:
“As awareness expands, it connot contract.
It can be distorted, but it connot contract
Once one has known a human consciousness
there would be little use
in being a blade of grass again,
for the karmic structure of the human being
is far more complex and aware.”
Amen!
Sorry i ask this q? But I have to know. Is. There some sortof equation i can do by myself. To determine at which step. And level I’m in?i would be very greatful if you did have an equation for. Me to equate. Thanks for your time and wisdom barry
I really wish it were that simple, Jose, but as far as I am aware there is no such equation. I am working on a self-test, however, so watch this space.
B
From the basic chart of the 35 steps (7 at each level) you can get an intuitive feel as to where you foundationally are. My suspicion is if you have been attracted to this site, you are probably a mature soul. Read the descriptions and the levels and you’ll get a sense of what’s what for you.
For a more in depth understanding of your contract-intention issues for this life, Robert Schwartz in Your Soul’s Gift suggests looking very closely at your early life, family of origin circumstances, and major early influences (cultural, religious,etc). These give important clues as they are conduits for the karrmic life lessons and experiences we chose to work on and experience for growth in the present incarnation.
Hi Barry,
Thanks for this nice site. Just had to share one thing … according to my understanding, soul evolution is about **knowing** your psyche and **choosing** compassion …
Osho had insights (the knowing part) but not the compassion … Also, he was terribly group-bound.
I see his entire life as one big performance put out to feel important, unique. He became big only by challenging everything there was, bringing down what was.
He did not/could not praise the inherent good in a lot of things… which I am surprised he very cleverly missed …
I see Osho as someone who liked to be **envied** (that is how he could prove his uniqueness to himself).
I will say Osho’s soul in his life as Osho was fighting a previous incarnation of extreme materialism and body-centricness. For all outward appearances, Osho had gained the **role** of a saint, but not the **soul** of one.
All souls will fall under some category or the other. But we don’t have to feel compelled to confer greatness on them for that or just because they are extolled publicly.
Many heroic and loving acts are committed every moment by the unnamed, unknown **masses**.
Very insightful.
Shouldn’t the Dalai Lama be in the 7th step of Old Souls? He is the most sagacious man I have ever known. And what about Maya Angalou? She was an old soul even as a child. I was told that, too, growing up, and a famous psychic told my mom that I was 16 going on 60, because I was so far beyond my years. I never put it into karmic perspective, though, because I feel like I am still being greatly challenged, even though I truly love life. Hard to figure out where you are on this chart, especially if you are trying to place yourself…
I don’t know the exact levels of Maya Angelou and the Dalai Lama, but yes definitely old souls. Meanwhile, I am working on a more detailed system by which we can identify our soul levels.
I like this theory, but I struggle with it being human and earth centered. It seems probable to me there are billions of intelligent life forms and billions of planets and that we could incarnate into, and where do being in alternate dimensions fit into this model? If there weren’t enough people being born on earth I don’t think you’d have to wait to reincarnate, you could just go to another planet. I had also gotten the impression that between lives exists outside of time, so the linear time line wouldn’t really matter.
But we ARE human and earth centered. This is the journey you and I and billions of others have signed up for. We are evolving through self-awareness and choice using the human organism as a vehicle for interaction. We could perhaps have gone with a different organism on a different planet, but this is the one we happen to have chosen for this journey. I think species-swapping is the exception, not the rule.
I think Barry is right on here. First off, parallel realities and other dimensions CONCURRENT with this are a little outside the bounds of this discussion. My experience both in meditation, in higher order frequency contact, (Angels guides, etc) and in reading is that the Universe is not a”hodge podge”. Earth as a place for a very specific contextual type of learning and experience is like enrolling in college. You don’t take a class at Cal, then go for another to UCLA, then run to a community college for a third, all in different specialties. Earth has some very precise aspects for growth and expansion in the human experience. (or animal, or plant)
In “Destiny of Souls” Michael Newton does talk about inter-dimensional travelers who come here, but it is not the norm. Also, he indicates there are “vacation planets” in the physical, but the primary evolutionary focus is here.
From what I understand Earth is a fairly unique place, not solitary, but unique, especially with its diversity. Also in how tough a place it is.
So the evolutionary line for those of us here runs pretty much here until we “graduate.
It is said you can gain more in one lifetime here, then in thousands of “tears” in the non physical.”
My experience with angels and other non physical dimensional beings is they are quite in awe of humans and the courage it takes to do this. They use the term “phenomenal survivors”.
‘years”, not “tears”
Tears makes sense as well!
Cheers Ken
These stages are body ages where from we need to judge where the self is being reflected trough the type of tasks and in the levels of energy waht an individuals putforth the hidden levels. Still then some where research does required for the more dimentional explanation in this regard.
Uh-oh Barry, I see you’re fast-approaching the dreaded 6th-level mature (haha). I really wish tone could be sent over the internet…anyways, I was actually wondering if the 6th-level mature stage is generally the one most fraught with psychological/emotional disorders?
Hi Nicole
Well, the whole mature stage is fraught with inner turmoil as we move from “me-first”, “you’re-on-your-own” individualism to “we’re all in this together” (to borrow from Bill Clinton). There is less outer conflict with other individuals as we find ways to get along as equal beings with equally valid emotions, but the compulsion to figure out how to get along with anything and everyone causes us to wrestle on a daily basis with our own conflicting emotions. “I love you, but I hate that thing you do, but that’s only because I secretly do the same thing, and that’s because I hate something about myself, so maybe I love you only because I don’t love myself, but if I loved myself would I lose you…???” So being a mature soul can get pretty crazy-making, at least if you’re not connected with like minded souls.
In any stage the 6th level is said to be the one in which we mop up any karma we’ve created earlier in the stage. You’ve killed, raped, abused? Now you get to experience being killed, raped and abused (yippee!). However, mature souls don’t generally create such intense karma as younger souls, so the karmic harvest is likewise less intense.
Karmic experiences tend to be dealt with early in life. One of my best friends is a 6th level mature king (identified as such by two separate sources). His early life was pretty rotten – a psychotic mother, no father. If karma was involved, then perhaps he was receiving some of the mind-fuck karma and neglect karma he had put out earlier as a mature soul.
So, that said, I’m pretty nervous at the thought of what I’ve got to look forward to in a future life. To be honest, this life with goal of growth has been tough enough thank you very much and right now I fancy a life of R&R next – something like Hugh Hefner’s – before hitting the 6th level.
(PS – by tone you mean love??)
Yep you got it, and thanks for the reply 🙂
I think this is being over thought and too much mind is involved in this nuance here. My intuition and work with people yields a few observations. Most of us here came in to move up several octaves in our spiritual evolution. That was the prime directive. As per Journey of Souls, “difficult lives are accelerated lives”. If we brought in a lot of stuff to deal with, most likely we were agreeing to clear a boatload of karma, NOW. I don’t see the fear of similar distress in a future life, although if there are some outstanding threads (lack of forgiveness, too much judgment) they might have to be worked on still but not in as severe a fashion. I once had a very fine channel say to me I would not again have to experience the depth of pain I took on in this life. The learning we accrue from this is for a reason.
I agree with Barry with some of the difficulties associated with being a mature soul, but I am also seeing much greater access to Source support, letting go of a lot of baggage, and entering into possibilities of very authentic illumination and service.
I think its important to remember all are blessed, and to remember one’s essence and true nature is one of the greatest blessings in the Cosmos.
Beyond that trying to figure out too much about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin feels counter productive.
Dear Barry, just like you, even I am trying to put the pieces of this mammoth , unfathomable creation in place…..Must say that I dont agree to everything that you say, but what you say has really helped me to put things in place to a greater extent, as per my perception, and a big thanks for that…You have been a big inspiration! I
I will put forth of what I could gather of it all:
1) THE TAO, THE GOD, THE ESSENCE, Known in Hindu Philosophy as BRAHM has 2 aspects…either self contracting or self manifesting….. in simple words, infinitely expanding or infinitesimally contracting…in cycles…
2) When ever the infinitesimally contracting Brham, “DESIRES”, that “let me be”…..”it becomes”….And it begins to expand and manifest itself, from itself… …..into 2 components…i.e. matter and energy….
3) Matter constitutes the physical dimensions of the universes or all that is materialistic…..and energy, takes over as the driving force to keep these fragments of matter mobilized, but still bound by some
“universal laws” devised by the epitome of intelligence “the essence”….as it is essential for the creation to have stability….people call it the laws of gravity, or newtons laws of motions, or the Kepler laws of planetary motion, or Eisenstein theory of relativity….the golden ratio etc…there is no end to the aspects of divine intelligence!
4) As a special case Essence would give Some “energy bundles” a special flavor of EGO (Through Maya (A Sanskrit word for the universal delusional force) that makes them have a perceived (though delusional) individuality, different from essence to perceive and experience the materialistic world created around, as if they were different from essence.
5) Its a game by essence to ENJOY its own varied manifestations by getting itself transformed into egoistic bundles of energy and see how the show goes on when they are put together against each other…..why it is so is beyond the comprehension of human brain.
LIFE = EGOISTIC ENERGY ENTRAPPED INTO MATTER
3 Things I could never agree to:
1) Human souls jump directly into human bodies rather than evolving through the various other kingdoms like viruses, plants animals etc:
1.1) I perceive that all living beings are “egoistic” energy provoking “individuality” contained in matter bundles; be it plants, animals and humans have consciousness, individuality, a sense of ego, expressed to various degrees….as per their evolved consciousnesses. The matter tends to evolve and get more and more complex as the egoistic energy (soul) keeps getting born over and over again evolving the v bit every-time till it develops a mass of matter to be able to contain and harness its evolutionary development as complex as the human body with HUMAN BRAINS and the metaphysical MIND.
1.2) The difference between humans and animals is not that humans can make conscious choices and animals cant…..even animals have ego, individuality and can make conscious choices as per their level of evolution, driven by their individualistic instinctive consciousness just like most humans do in most situations. Also, If animals have a hive conscious then human race does have one as well perhaps being felt by the astronauts who look at earth from outer space. And there it ends!
1.3) The difference between animals and humans is that though both animals and humans feel “I am”, only humans have the capacity to contemplate “who I am”, or “why I am”? I.e. The first step towards realizing self!
1.4) Transmigration of souls from a more evolved human body and mind to a less evolved animal body and mind is not a norm! Evolution is always progressive. However under exceptional situations it can happen if a human soul really wants to serve some specific purpose……Many metamorphic Examples are given in Hindu Puranas about lord incarnating in some animal form as that would be the only way to destroy a daemon. An analogy would be for the people who play chess….when a pawn gets promoted to 8th rank it has a choice to get converted to any of the non pawn pieces if it wants to. However 99% of the times they would be converted to a Queen as that’s the
max….but then if I wanted to be a little cocky with my opponent I might just decide upon being a knight 😉
2) Soul decides it “all” beforehand!
2.1) I am somehow not comfortable with the Idea that nothing can happen to a soul without its wish! It kills the entire purpose of this delusional creation for the essence. It would be like entering a video game pre-deciding that at 10 steps there will be a gun, at 20 steps there will be a tank, at 30 steps there will be a creeper……would you enjoy playing such a predictable video game?
2.2) The soul has control over when to take birth, what kind of parents, possible genetic outcomes, major events like marriage, accidents death….to an extent but not absolutely! The soul has control over its own birth and circumstances but no control over the natural laws and dynamics of the physical world! Once it dives into the physical world as per its preference it has to deal with natural laws in motion on a random basis. The natural laws at the time may or may not be conducive to what the soul desires to achieve! If it does great! we call it a great destiny! If not, bad luck, better try next time! Some times you might end up getting killed by some 3rd party robbers who were not at all a part of your initial plan in the spiritual world. But then that’s how the dynamics of physical world are….It would still count as an experience, perhaps an unexpected experience!
3) LAW OF KARMA is all about individual entanglement:
3.1) I just cant get around the fact that the law of Karma is just a law
of entanglement between two individuals where in A and B decide that you murder me in this life and in next life or whenever, I ll murder you , so evens Stevens. That is not an impossibility but that is definitely not the totality!
3.2) If I get killed by you as a random act even though we hadn’t planned it just counts as an uninvited experience of getting killed. Now if I desire to experience revenge earnestly I might plan my next birth to make sure that I am born somewhere around and get ample opportunity to kill you in return and I will be satisfied. If I am the forgiving kind then I might just feel that you are still under evolved and that’s why u killed me….never mind you will learn with life…I have more important lessons to work on than to avenge my killing by you. However does that free him from the act of killing just because I forgave? I would say a blunt Noooooo! He still needs to learn how it is when someone kills you and what consequences it would have on your loved ones….and the Karmik balance sheet comes into picture….even if I don’t avenge my killing the karmic law will react perhaps by getting him killed by someone else as per the scenario……….
3.3) As you mentioned KARMIC LAWS are NOT THE LAWS OF JUSTICE OR PUNISHMENT, but who said that anyway? I believe law of karma is simply the LAWS OF ACTION AND REACTION. Some might term the reaction as a justice or punishment but its simply a reaction. Just like it doesn’t matter if you throw a stone in a puddle pool or liquid chocolate pool, it will get splashed back at you. The laws of Karma is not bothered if its the chocolate or the puddle all it is bothered is about the action and reaction….it works on the simple logic! now its only you to decide the puddle or Chocolate or for that matter if you enjoy puddle more than chocolate.
…you act and nature reacts…… that’s it…good or bad is your take or your perception, not of the law of karma!
Thats where my perceptions are dwelling these days….I am sure there is more to assimilate….in time…
Thanks Andre
I literally just had surgery 3 hrs ago so can’t quite take this in at the moment, but will look again in a few days
B
Andre,
You’ve thrown a lot on the table. It seems clear you ascribe to a more Eastern Hindu evolution of the soul than a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals animals, etc. As has been discussed here, I don’t think we have the answer (i don’t). I was “raised” in the Yogic tradition by a Sat Guru for 20 years and the model is the one you feel comfortable with. But you might want to read the section on animals in Robert Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channeled information contradicts this view.
I do want to address your take on Soul Contracts. First I think you might reconsider the use of the word “random”. As Abraham said flatly, “there is no random. “My Guru said the word “accident” should be stricken from the dictionary.
I think you are on the right track that nothing is written in stone. But everything is the result of causation. My understanding is that rather than the word “contract’, we could substitute “intention”. Intention imo manifests as fluctuating probability lines. Some lines (and lives) are so strong that they are virtually impossible to change. One example is the man who desired to be a quadriplegic for certain growth purposes in his life in Schwartz’s Your Sou’s Plan. Other lives, such as one cited by Joel Witton in Life Between Life, are left completely open. Schwartz cites a case of incest in which the mother agreed to protect the daughter but didn’t when the rubber hit the road. But this is NOT RANDOM. There are two forms of causation. One is the destiny part that is scripted before incarnation and the other is the RESULT OF CHOICE (thoughts, vibration, action) that occur here with free will. No one is at the “whim” of life. Creating your reality is absolute.
I think you are on the right track around karma but expressing it a little haphazardly. Karma as I understand it ultimately is the law of balance manifested as action-reaction. Again, there is no random. A life of service can balance out what might be termed “negative karma”. The Universe, as you cited, is quite vast and varied and the human mind tries to pigeon hole things. I had a friend who found out that in the 1880’s she was a preacher who was vociferous for the extermination of the Indians. In this life she has been a strong advocate for minorities and multiculturalism. She has also had her share of heartbreak.
I have a question. How much of your opinion is based on direct experience and how much just on reading? I would be interested. You have a lot of fine thoughts and questions, but some experience base is important in assessing some of this.
I look forward to continuing the discussion and honing in on certain parts.
P.S. I do think we have a good idea of why this was created. From all my investigations, the issue of SEPARATION and all its implications is paramount. As you ascribed, some of this is for the experience and enjoyment of individuality in the physical (the flight of the Eagle, the roar of the waterfall) but in human form the issue of forgetting and the playing out of extremes of emotion and the enormous extremes of duality (light and dark) appear to be the dominant motif. Yes, it is a grand experiment, but but purpose and plan. Otherwise Soul planning would not be so preeminent, both in humans and in many other species.
Dear Ken,
Thanks for the response and I must tell you that as Barry is recovering from an operation even I am recovering from chronic sciatica that makes it impossible for me to sit and type for more than a couple of minutes on my desktop. But then I don’t prefer typing replies over a laptop, tab, or mobile…lol…So I ll be as brief as possible…
@…. It seems clear you ascribe to a more Eastern Hindu evolution of the soul than a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals animals, etc. As has been discussed here, I don’t think we have the answer (i don’t).
….Well that would really be an assumption on your part as I have been open to all religious or metaphysical or theosophical views since my childhood! And I am not really against the Michael newton view about 35 steps to soul evolution for that matter….basically it makes sense….and I feel that the Hindu view on the over all picture about reincarnation makes sense….and I am for anything that makes sense! If you don’t have an answer to something its still better to work on something that might try and answer it….need not be correct always but still better than not having a lead at all!
@ I do want to address your take on Soul Contracts….
Plz read again……Well I never said soul contracts! It’s the essence who expands and contracts in cycles…and souls exist only in the expanding phase of essence….
@………… a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals, etc…………..But you might want to read the section on animals in Robert Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channelled information contradicts this view……………….. Again, there is no random.
My only question……why humans are humans and animals are animals if humans haven’t done anything special? Why this discrimination? If I had been an animal instead of Human I would ask that to the essence , why me Mr? Some would say that it was a random assignment….but then as you said there is nothing random! So why is it that some souls being given animal bodies and some Humans (obviously at more advantage). The Hindu View of evolution of Humans through Animals make more sense for me…it puts everything in place….logically!
@ I have a question. How much of your opinion is based on direct experience and how much just on reading? I would be interested. You have a lot of fine thoughts and questions, but some experience base is important in assessing some of this.
Let none of my option being based on direct experience……and its definitely on reading……but its all on Logic, common sense and fact of the matter….For an example…out of my reading and experience through life I would know intuitively as a common sense logic that I if I jump from a 100 floored building I will die…Now will you ask me that did you really jump from a 100 story building to practically experience if you really dies? Isn’t it common sense?
PS: Perhaps common sense is not the right word here but a better word would be “intuitively”…..I believe that your intuitions are formed by your direct (this life or any of the lives) or indirect (by observing direct experiences of others) at time consciously and many at time subconsciously. So I would not always want to validate by experiences every life what appeals to me intuitively, as if it does I would have experienced it somewhere in time already. I would want to validate by experience only the things which mu brain would find illogical or my mind will find intuitively unacceptable. Intuition is still a stronger force than reasoning as it comes through experiences, and I might still agree upon something even if it is illogical on face as long as its intuitively acceptable!
As an example, I find 35 steps of reincarnation both logical as well as intuitively acceptable, the reason could be that my soul (or rather I) have always been going through these stages piratically! At the same time I dont find the notion “humans are humans, animals are animals” logical or intuitively acceptable perhaps indicating that I might have experienced being animal sometime during my evolution. And we should also not forget the fact that what we call Michael teachings are actually a compilation of channeling data through numerous human sources over a period of time and so is as open to misinterpretation as any other set of concepts are. So As of now I would assume the notion as a work of human misinterpretation as it intuitively seems to be erroneous. Perhaps I will have a retake on in sometime in the future If I “directly” get to interact with the Michael Group of souls (may be through Chaneling) and get to discuss the same.
Also, the soul contracts are not something discrete but a metamorphic concept. There is no reason for me to believe that the supposed “soul contract” is by default infallible. Just like rules can be broken contracts can get breached. While signing the contract the soul might not be aware of what its going to be trying to serve the contract in the real dynamics of physical world, at times due to inexperience. Thats when things can go really out of control, out of plan and out of contract, tipsy turby, and the soul might not be able to execute the contract properly, might wish for tweaking, or might just fail completely and end up breaching it. As a strong example I can never agree to Suicide being a part of souls life plan or contract. It is always when the soul is badly messed up on its attempt to execute its life plan under the turbulent dynamics of the physical plne, it calls it a quit in order to take a breather, regroup and then try all over again…..As a reference..in the book “journey of soul” the case study about the person who just committed suicide, it is mentioned that the moment the soul is out of the body it is resentful that it crumbled under pressure and ended up committing suicide and is even hesitant in meeting his soul guide for the failure. Now if suicide were to be a part of souls plan or was intentional why would it repent?
A theme seems to be emerging here of discomfort with the idea that “soul contracts” are somehow “set in stone”. This reference has been repeated now several times.I really recommend reading Schwartz’s books as they compliment Newton, who deals with the larger picture, very well. I agree that the “Contract” which is really more of an intention along with “agreements” with others is extremely varied, fluid and apparently open to free will *(which could be a whole entire discussion in itself.)
From my reading and experience, “Contracts” run the gamut from highly scripted to potentially open ended and yes there are many opportunities of choice and action to change, back off, out perform, move in different directions from original intention.Life seems especially fluid in the whole adapting to the movement of the parts.
I would be careful, however, in ascribing absolutes to any situation. Suicide is one such example. Although it appears to me also that many if not most suicides are “incompletes”, my intuition says strongly some suicides are contracted for the purpose of generating growth of those around them. Or even for the purpose of the entity itself. I think we have to be careful in saying “x is in all cases this.”
Similarly I honor your intuition that “moving up the chain” feels. more apt than “humans are humans, animals are animals”. Yet there is a strong chapter in Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channeled information suggests that (the latter) and that crossover is minimal because animals do not particularly like the extremes of the human experience. Therefore I file this under “interesting” but I truly do not know. My own intuition pulls me also in the direction that as we are life itself, we most likely have experienced it in multiple forms. But again I just don’t know.The Universe is so vast is it possible that both in some way are true? Because I have not had enough direct experience I have to say “I don’t know” On another level, its irrelevant. As a Buddhist friend once said, however we got here, what are we going to do now?
The value of the reality of contracts to me is that it erases the victim-perpetrator model and gives me (and others) the potential to align more deeply with whatever original intention I brought here. The clearer I get about that, the more congruent I get about being in tune with my purpose. For example, I know that judgment and forgiveness, as well as reclaiming power in a healthy manner (this one seems pretty universal) are pretty big for me. Knowing that helps me in not validating separation issues, such as judgment. As I get more intuitively clear on finer aspects, such as perhaps a challenge of finding the limitations of the intellect and will as opposed to moving more from the heart, opportunity for growth and expansion according to most likely my core intentions derived before birth become clearer. How I work it out seems to be my free will choice.
I would recommend people reading as much as they can about this as it is fairly cutting edge and not that much material has emerged yet (as opposed to manifestation, for example.) Schwartz is invaluable in giving tremendous information at how fine tuned contracts can be. Yet he seems to be dealing with fairly evolved people. Newton mentioned that in his experience 75% of contracts were created by guides who then sought assent, much like a travel agent planning an itinerary. If one wants to form an opinion on a subject, one should at least be relatively versed in the subject. Otherwise, we can spin our wheels out of emotional reactivity.
Well i do agree with the notion that if you dont know something, you simply dont know, and it doesnt really imply that it does not or can not exist. But then human minds still do have the liberty to speculate, hypothesize and draw upon and dwell upon conclusions, as “truths”, as per their thought processes; and believe in its truthfulness untill proven othervise. In the end no one is really right or wrong but are just monkeys of their own perceptions that have only relative existances. Personally i would always be cautious about any chanelled information as it is open to contamination by human interpritations or misrepresations just like most “divine revelations”. I prefer the route of sensing, knowing and realizing. Anyway I will make it a point to give Schwartz a reading to try and understand his point of view now that I am crippled for atleast 2 weeks lol. Sometimes I wonder if we all can sign up a “contract” to meet up there one we are dead and get to go through the motions in actuality and we will be in a better position to evaluate our perceived notions abot life beyond. 🙂
I agree with you that external sources of any kind can have problems. For example, it is my understanding that hypnotic regression like Newton’s revealed in the East animal lives whereas in Newton no evidence of this arose.
One of the vectors I use in validating Soul Contracts is my own direct experience because I am a medium. Therefore I am not relying soley on second hand information. And although I agree that channeled information can be “contaminated”, one still must bring those qualities you mentioned, especially discernment as to the quality of the source. I also look for consistency where various sources reinforce one another. This adds to credibility. Thus Joel Whitton’s Life Between Life using similar techniques as Newton supports the arc and spirit of Journey of Souls where Saved by the Light does not.
My first experience around Soul Contracts happened years ago (nearly 20) when I had no idea such a thing possibly existed. I was walking in a center city park with as friend who was distraught that a young female friend of his (in her 20’s) had been murdered while working in a retail shop.. He was beside himself with grief. We walked a while, I really knew nothing I could say, when a cone of white light literally descended upon me that was extremely visceral to feel and I found a voice coming out of as I merged with the intelligence of the light that said, “Her death was planned by her as a sacrifice before she was born to raise the consciousness and deepen the hearts of those around her as to the preciousness of life”. To say we were both blown away is an understatement but a wave of peace emanated from me that he felt and it completely cooled him down.
Since then I have done many readings with people where deceased relatives, often ones abusive in life, have come through to counsel and explain their roles, that they were asked for or agreed upon, and to clarify why these decisions were made. I had a particularly powerful experience where a very gifted channel brought through my father’s higher self **while he was still living** explaining to me why he had to be the “bad guy” in this life and to help me widen my understanding of my life and our relationship. He actually said that his earthly personality at the time would not agree with or have any clue as to what he was telling me. And he emphasized strongly the form of our relationship had been agreed upon.
I’m getting better at reading the outlines of or recognizing Contracts, although one oi the best channels I know, an Angel named Michal, who represents “Unity Consciousness” emphasized in a talk that the word “intention” was better than “contract”. Contract seems to stimulate, as it has here, a sense of something fixed or inviolable and he wanted to move us away from that to a much more sense of the fluidity of the process. O(Ne may draw up a plan to visit Europe and have what one believes is a fixed itinerary but once we get there events may change how long and why we stay in one place or even visit areas not designed originally. I think we are at the beginning of exploring this so I believe in years to come there will be much filling in of gaps and expansion of our understanding of how it works.
As to the question of incarnation origins, I was with a Guru for twenty years who was completely in the “up the chain” ball park. This is very core to Eastern philosophy. Newton and Schwartz propose something different. Since I have not had direct experience as to the truth of the matter, I don’t take a hard position either way. I do feel intuitively, as you sense that intuition is fruitful;, that once you are human, there is not a lot of huge movement back and forth into other forms. To me this seems to “mess up” the whole idea of soul evolution. Yet I have heard Gurus speak of just such wild shifts.
So to me the issue is what am I here for now.? What is directly in front of me that I believe I ordained for myself to work on? The entire thesis of this part of this web site is devoted entirely to the human process of soul evolution, however we entered it at the beginning. I do believe animals have souls and have their part of the journey also. I’m not clear as to when a more conscious Individuation for animals (or trees. plants, whatever) would take place. My instinct tells me that ants for example, might deal more with a group soul as opposed to a Lion or dog or cat. But I don’t know.
And to be honest, I’m not losing sleep over it because the relevance for my journey is not there in the same manner that contract-intentions are. If that knowledge is important, I believe it will be given for me when and if I need it.
Thanks for your input, thoughts and perspectives. I’m sure as Barry recovers he will weigh in.
P.S. I believe you will find Schwartz very interesting. He is doing some cutting edge work. Both books
Your Soul’s Plan’
Your Soul’s Gift
can be gotten together on Amazon for near $25 and the shipping will be free. Hope you have fun reading them.
I haven’t read all the comments, so sorry if this has been answered,
But where does active spiritual pursuit fit into this? If we choose to meditate, work on our issues, even leave home and join a monastery, does that not speed the process up? If it doesn’t then what’s the point in worrying about all that stuff?
Why would we strive for total liberation if we cannot fulfill more than one step in a lifetime?
Well, Benny, you’ve pretty much answered your own question. What’s the point of worrying about liberation? There isn’t any!
While a bit of striving now and then might help us along, it’s going to happen eventually anyway.
Unlike the human body/ego, the soul is not subject to any time limitation. Nor is it “required” to liberate itself within any Earthly time frame. There are no medals for becoming liberated sooner rather than later. The cosmos isn’t going to collapse if we all decide to evolve “slowly” rather than “quickly” (even if those terms had any meaning beyond the physical plane).
It’s just that, as we grasp the whole idea of reincarnation, it is very tempting to assume that our task is to get to the end point ASAP. Indeed, many spiritual teachers teach exactly this. But this is just the human mind distorting its understanding with ideas based on human life (where, for example, finishing something soon is generally better than finishing it late). If there is an end point to reincarnation where we are liberated from human suffering, then obviously (we imagine) reaching that end point quickly is good and right, while failing to reach liberation today, or by this time next year, or any time in this lifetime, is obviously a sign that we are hopelessly stuck, and holding everybody back.
From the soul’s timeless perspective between lives, this notion of “urgency” is clearly nonsense.
Another bogus teaching is that we are “trapped” in physical reincarnations until we finally do everything right in one life. But consider what it means to evolve as a soul, an emerging spark of consciousness. In the early stages of reincarnation, souls are naturally drawn to the physical plane, to separation, and to the intense feelings that go with life, including violence and suffering. The more we experience these things during our Earth lives, the more we get a sense of ourselves as real, individual beings in the universe. This all peaks during our Young soul phase.
Then, as Mature souls, we reach a turning point. Having “found” ourselves as definite individuals, we now want to find our place within the greater whole. We feel a draw towards meaningful integration with others, and the cosmos at large. We also feel a growing urge to end suffering, both for ourselves and for others. In human terms, this is the start of our spiritual pursuit. In some lives we might be drawn to pursue it actively, but certainly not in all.
But as Old souls, rather than still feeling drawn to the physical plane we feel an increasing pull to the end point, simply because we can sense it – and also by then the novelty of the physical plane has worn off. “Liberation” now becomes a more attractive proposition than, say, being successful and popular.
So there is a natural sequence in what any given consciousness can do, and wants to do.
There wouldn’t be much point in, say, telling a Baby soul that he/she should go to Tibet and look for ultimate liberation. Well, the stress of dealing with foreigners might contribute something to his/her growth as a Baby soul, but that soul isn’t going to jump from 4th level Baby to 7th level Old by spending an entire life sitting on a cushion meditating. That soul won’t even want to do it. It would be WAY out of its comfort zone. A Baby soul will be much more drawn to experiences of traditional community-building, learning the external rules of polite society, living with law and order, following a religion. That’s what makes sense – literally – to a consciousness searching for itself at that stage.
There is nothing wrong with seeking enlightenment or liberation in any life, by the way. For Mature and Old souls it is a great way to discover more of oneself and one’s place in the universe. In some lives it feel like just the right thing to do. But there is no urgent need to do so, and there is nothing “wrong” with not doing so.
Barry
Hi Barry, thanks so much for taking the time to reply. In some senses, it is a relief to know that there is no urgency. As many say, there are no problems in life, why create them? And I think that goes for spiritual pursuit too. What is the urgency? I think knowing this allows us to sit back and enjoy the ride.
In another sense though, perhaps from an egoic perspective I don’t know, it is a relief to think that complete liberation is at least possible in this life, to free oneself from the suffering. I’m not sure exactly where I’m at, but I think I’m emerging into the earlier steps of the mature soul group, To think that I may have another 14 lives here and hundreds more years in this harsh terrain, well, kinda depresses me. Since starting to wake up a couple of years ago, I feel much more of a pull to leave this place behind. I have never felt like I belong here, and have never been willing to compete in the world of ego games and selling oneself out in society. Knowing that we can meditate in an attempt to transcend the suffering is some relief.
Another point is that, if we do meditate, then we bring more awareness to our lives, and with more awareness comes more experience, because we experience each experience with more awareness, if you see what I mean.
I totally agree with you that, if we are not ready as souls, we will not even feel the pull to meditate or emigrate to Tibet, those things come when our soul is ready for these experiences. But when we feel a pull to leave this place behind, it’s nice to know there is a method that can fast track us, so to speak.
Thank you so much for the article. I found it fascinating, and a lot of it resonated with me. It has changed my perspective on some things. Keep up the good work!
Benny
Benny,
If you’re feeling a pull to leave here and looking at potential incarnations as wretched, that’s a clue as to the issues you came to work on. I’m glad the site is lightening things up by providing perspective. I’ve recommended it to many.
Great response. When I read Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Plan the guidance that came through was exactly that, the soul has no time table in the sense the ego or conscious mind would define it. However I would add one caveat. In Journey of Souls Newton speaks often of ACCELERATED LIVES. Lives that involve challenge and difficulty according to karmic patterns offer souls the opportunity to speed up their development rather than just going once again for the picket fence, etc.
Apparently there are times when the soul decides or is even pushed by guides to tackle issues it might have been avoiding. In this sense then, the soul can choose and can be stimulated to accelerate.
I resonate with this because not only for myself but for many others I see choices in this life that seem a result of ‘throw the kitchen sink at me so I can clean up a tremendous karmic pile at once” because the opportunity for movement now is so great. And thus I believe this stimulus comes from deep within, from the soul’s own desire to expand. But however “well’ or “not well” one does makes no difference because there is literally all the time in the world.
So in the absolute I agree. There is no time table and there are no special stickers given out.
Hi Ken
I’m back on my feet today after the throat op, now wading through a backlog of comments!
Totally agree with you and FYI in the Michael teachings each life has a particular goal or motivational direction, one of which is termed GROWTH or ACCELERATION. See https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/goal/growth/
This is my current life’s goal and, yes, the kitchen sink is spot on — In the last ten years I’ve had over 40 operations…
B
I was at a channeling where inter galactic beings were in awe of humans as “phenomenal survivors”. There is enormous admiration on the upper realms for the courage to come here.
Hi Berry,
I enjoy going back and forth to your website a lot. It is very informative and interesting to say the least.
According to the 35 steps we have to go through in order to evolve, it was mentioned that we could need up to 4 lifetimes to tackle one step. And I read some where else on your website that we could have lived thousands of lives before. So for argument’s sake if we say 4 lives per step times 35 steps that would make it 140 lives all together to get to the last “old” step. This is no where near 1000 lives at least..
I know there’s no definite number of lives that we are required to live and no rush to hurry at all.. But, the little knowledge that I know about this topic i can’t figure out why we would need “thousands of lives”. It really sounds depressing..
Would you elaborate on that point please?
Warm regards,
Rose
Rose,
Look at this from the Soul’s perspective. Think of Earth life as a combination of school and restaurant, learning and experience. From the Soul’s perspective the prospect of entering this school-restaurant is exciting, challenging, at times difficult, at times exhilarating filled with unusual, twist turning opportunities and chances to grow in ways that are rare in the Universe.
Because the Soul is eternal and cannot die, it is like a giant drama or dream in which each life is temporal and ephemeral, yielding great riches.
Now look back to when you started school in this life. Let’s assume each day in school corresponds to a life. If your schooling was good, interesting, challenging, often exciting, sometimes difficult, through basic college you would have spent 4560 days there or about 35000 hours (including homework) of your life. Again IF it was consistently good schooling with amazing experience opportunities, would you say the entire time or the thought of was depressing? Don’t reference our common schooling now, but imagine really terrific schools.
I’m not sure the math here has to be completely on the money but the main idea is valuable. From the Soul’s point of view, incarnations are like all those days and hours spent learning, growing, experiencing in school. Except it is simultaneously an incredible variety of restaurants.
We are now here focusing in one incarnation. The totality of our Soul may be operating in many dimensions. We so often bring the human point of view into this. Souls come here for all kinds of reasons that make no sense from the “I want the 21/2 kids, easy life, 80 years, no pain” vantage point. Michael Newton mentioned a Soul who was a Master healer in the Universe. She came to Earth to expand her (he, it) knowledge base around disease. She took 300 incarnations and NOT ONCE took a healthy body. Had no interest. Not in the curriculum.
From a traditional point of view that’s crazy. From the Soul’s point of view, it was the most sensible thing in the world. Came to this place to learn and experience first hand. Had no desire to fool around. An unusual case, but instructive.
Life may ultimately be a passing show, an illusion, but it is profound and has great depth. We are eternity itself and timeless in our essence. Wouldn’t it then make sense that hundreds or thousands of lives (as humans) in the physical, perhaps not all on this planet, might be an essential part of the cosmic class?
P.S. And from the point of view of eternity, a blip on the radar. What’s a million years or even 100 million years? (If we come up through the ranks). That’s peanuts, even in the life of the earth. (Life is 5 BILLION years old here.)
Hi Rose
I’m always pretty clear that 100+ lives is the norm (for souls using the human organism) so I actually had to do a Google search to find any reference to “thousands of lifetimes” on my site. It appears just once as far as I can tell:
– quotation from The Sphere of Universal Communion – insights from William’s journey into light, a wonderful lucid account of the higher planes as seen from a near death experience. The experiencer, William, encountered some “great-souled” beings who had the wisdom of thousands of lifetimes. On that point, I don’t actually know if he is being literal or poetic, speaking from direct insight or making an assumption.
He could in fact be describing what is known in the Michael teachings as a re-integrated entity. An “entity” (as defined in these teachings) is a collective consciousness that first fragments into 1,000 or so individual souls, all of whom then evolve through the learning experiences of reincarnation. It equates to what some call a “soul tribe”, or a “larger grouping” in Michael Newton’s work. We are all members of one entity or another, and we often live or work with some of our entity soul-mates in our human lives.
When, after several thousands of years, each of the 1,000+ members of an entity have completed their physical journey, a new process begins: the soul-mates reunite and begin to form a greater whole. And as a whole, the integrated entity has the collective experience and wisdom of over 100,000 human lives.
The Michael entity itself is one of these – a combined consciousness consisting of precisely 1,050 soul-mates (all Warriors and Kings) who have completed their reincarnation and are now forming an integrated whole, teaching from their combined wisdom.
Cool. I just spent a week with James Van Praagh at Omega training to be a medium. This question kind of came up in that a person asked” what if I want to meet my mother when I cross over and she’s reincarnated?” One renowned medium thought the Universe would be cruel to allow that. There was some back and forth and right there Van Praagh got a download in which that which physically incarnates is a sliver of the entirety.
I have always maintained that human linear thought and language cannot express the expansion that goes on beyond the physical. Therefore your description seems apt. What we are is far larger, even in subtle individuation, than this notion here of “me”. Thus it is interesting that Abraham from Abraham-Hicks is such a collection, So is “Alexander” channeled by Ramon Stevens. A local channel here worked with “Isaiah and the guides” and another spirit channel works with inter-galactic beings who are also collective consciousness.
Good information.
I think I’ve read that it doesn’t matter if the “greeting” soul is incarnate at the time — only a portion is incarnate anyway, so there is always enough of a soul still on the astral side to greet a deceased relative.
That was the “downloasdd” info.
downloaded
@ Ken/Barry Back, Ah kind of recovered sooner than I though I would to the extent that I can sit on a chair now for 10mins. Good to see Barry around again. Ken, Must say I was thrilled going through your personal experiences….Pretty interesting an insightful…Being a channel yourself is pretty up right up there…..
I haven’t been through the Schwartz’s books yet though I was able to locate both the books in 100+ repositories I have on reincarnations, soul evolution, et al starting from ancient wisdom dating back to at least 5000years to the middle works and the contemporary works on it Michael and Schwartz’s to name a few. I haven’t been able to go through most of it yet but surely working on it.
Just a few quick pointers: Point for point…as I cant type much at a stretch….
@ From my reading and experience, “Contracts” run the gamut from highly scripted to potentially open ended and yes there are many opportunities of choice and action to change, back off, out perform, move in different directions from original intention.
Pretty much it ….may be it was a notion I inadvertently ended up projecting that soul contracts are written in stone. I pretty much agree to your above statement, that leave a bit more of berthing space for me (or for my soul so to say).
@ I would be careful, however, in ascribing absolutes to any situation. Suicide is one such example. Although it appears to me also that many if not most suicides are “ in-completes”, my intuition says strongly some suicides are contracted for the purpose of generating growth of those around them.
Again I would agree to that…..I ended up projecting a wrong notion that as an absolute a “suicide” Cant be part of a souls plan or intention. So if I may restate…..”almost all but some Suicides may not be a part of souls plan or intention”. Or even the other way….not all but some Suicides are part of souls plan or intention.
Pretty much agreed on both counts. Our experience is so limited here right now and the Cosmos is so vast that I think we’re working with what little we know right now. But it seems to be the ball park. Newton had expressions of guides gettinng irritated a multiple series of suicides by one soul. I think in general the body and incarnation are sacred.
@or example, it is my understanding that hypnotic regression like Newton’s revealed in the East animal lives whereas in Newton no evidence of this arose.
I would want to know more in-depth about that one…From my research on eastern philosophies…in particular Hinduism…I do agree that the art and the science of Hypnotism was known in depth to the ancient Hindu Rishis (souls beyond the transient who came down to impart the knowledge of divine. However the oldest Hindu knowledge base on divinity (the 4 Vedas to be precise) are supposed to be work of “shrutis” (“realized” and then spoken out verses by highly enlightened and then remembered to the T by vedic scholars and regurgitated “as it is” through several thousand years). Rather than being “smritis” (observed/heard notions through channels angels etc and subsequently written down and translated several times opening it up for contamination through various sources). There are several Smritis in eastern as well as hindu philosophy in particular that are considered to be fallible by Hindy scholars. Only Shrutis are considered to be reliable as being a direct realization and then being transferred unscatch due to Sanskrit language checks. An easy example of Smiriti would be the Bible that had at least 10 different versions translated from different sources and finally we read the standard version that might have excluded one teaching that was exclusive to one school of thought and 10 teachings that were never there but were included as 6 schools of though had it.
In contrast the 4 Vedas and the “108 Hindu Upanishads” were the direct experiences of the 8 original hindu Rishis which were coded in Sanskrit to perfection in form of ewasy to remember and reproduce hyms, with 10 language checks in place. They were memorized by different schools from all directions at the source, and then spread verbally with even the breath retention to a particular syllable calculated to the T. The wide spread schools would meet every decade to make sure not even a breath is missed incorrectly. Even though the Vedas were finally written down on Palm leaves some 3000 years back but the written works are never relied upon. Even till date there are several vedic Schools who have vedic scholars capable of reciting the 20000+ verses of Vedas as it is….
http://knramesh.blogspot.in/2010/12/why-vedas-cannot-be-changed.html
Upanishads form the concluding part of the Vedas and are called ‘Vedanta’. They are the foundations on which most of the philosophies and religions of India/east or even west rest. The objective of these treatises is to ascertain the mystic sense of the text of the Vedas. Such metaphysical subjects as the origin of the Universe, nature of God, nature of Soul, and the connection between mind and matter are discussed.
Upanishads are generally in prose form but some are in verse form too. There are about 108 in number, the oldest one dating back to minimum the sixth century B.C.
This Upanishad discusses the nature of the Soul (Aatman) and describes it as ‘ that which cannot be described’. This is it’s ‘neti neti’ doctrine, meaning ‘not this, not this’.
Mundakopanishad is meant for enlightened persons like Sanyasis, who are detached from worldly attachments.
Prashnopanishad, as the name indicates, is in Question and Answer format. It answers, questions such as, what is the origin of Creation? Who are Devatas (gods)? How is life connected to the body? What is the truth behind the states of Wakefulness, Sleep and Dream? what are the benefits of chanting the Omkara mantra (Om). And finally what is the relationship between Jeeva (Life force) and Purusha. (Supreme Being)
After doing a critical analysis of the eastern philosophy specially the vedas and upanishads that already had in depth knowledge of hypnotism and chanelling for last 5000 years, I would want to keep that as a yard stick as compared to knowledge getting discovered by western sources most of which primarily believed in fallacies as one life one death or judgment day up until last 5 decades….
I hate to be contrarian about this but I was (and am) a direct disciple of an Indian Sat Guru for twenty years who died in 1990. (they never really die, no one does) so I was immersed in the tradition quite strongly.
At this point I see our development as part of a spiral in which the West has a gift of what I call the “technology of consciousness” in which we can investigate these things in ways I have not seen before.
My own orientation is Gnostic in the universal sense and thus I am not interested in what ancient traditions have to say about this, especially to the degree of detail you espouse. My perception is that so much is flooding through right now, that huge “downloads” are happening NOW (this site is one example), that for me those older forms don’t work. I am interested in what I can perceive directly that validates anything. Barry’s exposition of a collective soul grouping is not only something I have first hand experience with, but I have found nothing in ancient writings that would even hint at with such clarity the make up of some aspect of higher order realms.
Perhaps there are because it was not my intent to assiduously study those writings (although I am familiar with them) but that doesn’t appeal to me when from my point of view the revelatory wisdom from then is now accessible in a form my Western mind can take in.
My relationship to channeling appears to be different than yours. I feel I was guided by Guru after his death into channeling as the major form o the way I would be mentored. I believe my discernment is very strong and I have no compunction about what is clear and direct and what isn’t. I feel I have been blessed in that way. My Guru took the extraordinary step of channeling himself to me for 8 years through a highly gifted friend and it wasn’t just words, it was an amazing energetic flow of love as well. He would often say” The words are the envelope, the energy is what matters”. I have experienced this flow many times from many gifted channels and angelic communicators.
Guru also emphasized that what appeared as one Guru was the “composite of all Guru frequencies”, the Source energy behind all forms of that nature and all forms in general.
So I deal only with what is in front of me.
I read the comparison to Newton in an off hand remark and I don’t know the truth and for practical purposes here -now, to me it doesn’t matter.
I do believe, for example, that the knowledge contained here, unless there is a language problem.is highly inconsistent with the entirety of Buddhist teachings on reincarnation.
Therefore what would be the value for me in studying that?
I respect that ancient Rishis. But I have no interest in whatever detailed systems or hierarchies they devised as to who was more versed. versed.versed/proficient than whom.
@ But this is NOT RANDOM. There are two forms of causation. One is the destiny part that is scripted before incarnation and the other is the RESULT OF CHOICE (thoughts, vibration, action) that occur here with free will. No one is at the “whim” of life. Creating your reality is absolute.
Well I think we are almost at agreement on that one. just this bit that I would not want to put only souls desire to decide upon the destiny part! I would say there are 2 more factors than just souls desire that will work on the destiny part.
1) the soul guides overall understanding of what the soul needs to undergo as a learning experience that the soul at that point in time might not be mature enough to understand and might be reluctant to under go it, till it really does go through and comes back to analyse. As per the little bit of reading I have about “journey of souls” or the sequel it appears that the soul is shown the probable life it would undergo on physical plane in bits and pieces but then not the entire sequence is uncovered.
2)
3) Going through my grip on the eastern wisdom I pretty much agree to the Idea that karma in itself has stages of evolution. The incurred karma may not have to be repaid right away. “ Natural Laws of karma” give a cushion for the soul or the soul guides to inculcate the karmic consequences in the subsequent next lives and to pay them back. How ever if the incurred karma goes through an incubation period without getting realized, it becomes RIPE anyway , known in Sanskrit as “Prabdha karma” where in it has to be realized in the souls coming life anyway…..whether the soul or the soul guide likes it or not, plans it or not, nature has planned it anyway. Its dynamics are taken care by the universal laws of Karma.
2.1) The reason behind it is that either the soul specially in the initial stages of soul evolution might not be mature enough to have the rationality to go through the consequences of each and every karma it might have incurred.
2.2) Too much of karma getting accumulated till the mature or old phase for the soul to repay might put too much of burden on an already evolved soul that might have already understood the consequences of its previous less evolved phases and might feel burdensome or unnecessarily…..just the saying goes.. Justice delayed is justice denied….similarly Karmic consequences delayed = Karmic consequences denied….Its useless to react to Karmic debts that you incurred as an infant, baby or young soul as an old soul just because all this while you felt you were not ready. Its somewhat meaning less for the old soul at that point as most likely it would have not incurred such a karma as an old soul anyway if it had been that evolved.
An easy analogy would be that you take huge credit on your credit card and you feel you are not yet ready to pay back the amount and would not want to pay at all as you are too busy spending on things that you feel are important at that time. How ever the basic minimum payment would always show up on your statement to be paid back as a worse case scenario…….and just in case you are even reluctant to pay that you will incur huge interests uncalled for even when eventually you end up getting in a position to repay….
3. Yes I do agree that NOTHING IS RANDOM as its as per the souls will, or as per the soul guides vision….or in the end as per the natural laws of karma. Nothing is at random , in the end you deserve it somewhere, one way or the other.
I agree that how karma works and is distributed is extremely varied and vast and again not in compliance with human logical thought. O agree also with Newton that younger souls often do not participate in planning but are offered choices or even in very early stages might be swept into the next life, the issue of agreement pre=settled. It feels to me that karma and the law of attraction work hand in hand.
The soul has 100% control on what happens to it , with context to the choices it makes on what is thrown at him; However it might not have 100% control on what is being thrown at it! Or it assumes would be thrown at him….as that would include the soul guides plan as well as manifestation of natural laws of Karma!
Think at the highest level, not in human terms, of where control lies. Who re we, what are we? Who is doing what?
@ the notion that maybe the humans follow a hierarchy from the lower beings but you dont know. Also that the ants like creature might be following a group consciousness and lions elephants an individuals of sorts , but again you are not sure….
On this for the time being I would go by the yard stick of the ancient eastern wisdom. As I said I have not yet gone throw the works of Schiewrz reading which either I much come up with my contradictions or modify my paradigm and agree to it. For the time being I would stick to the notion of steady step by step evolution. I would also want to add that I have been a keen observer of animal behavior for last one decade and have been in discussion with my now late uncle who was a wild life conservationist and photographer for 5 decades.
Just a few points:
1) Observing the animal behavior for so long and researching on it I find it difficult to gulp that Animals do not experiences the exact same bipolar extremities as humans do….perhaps they experience it at a milder level of consciousness as assumed by human brain, but in their own little pigeon holed consciousness they experience the same severity of a bipolar extreme node! I am not comfortable with the Idea that a small bird being preyed upon will feel the pinch of experiencing the helplessness and the pain of getting killed by a prey any less than a human would.
2) Also If a soul wants to remain animal like because it cant handle the extremes of a human life……fine////no one is in a hurry….but the natural progression will still be to eventually and eventually seek a higher state of consciousnesses.
Also the notion that some creatures ants and bees are more for a group consciousnesses and lets say elephants and lions are not. I would want to believe that every egoistic piece of energy has both individual consciousness as well as a group consciousness at the same time. If the genetics of a specie is more towards a group dynamism we tend to recognize the group consciousness more and vice versa. As an example ants do so a genetic preference towards a group dynamism more as compared to lets say Lions or ants but then pick up one shoulder ant and one labor ant out of the ant hill and provoke them separately and they will show completely individualistic behavior.
Also though lioness might appear to have individual consciousness as more prominent but if you dig into their mechanism of hunting in a group you would realize that each individual lioness is aware of the exact location of the other intuitively so that they can execute a perfect attact. They dont rely on sound vibrations either as that may alert the prays. A perfect example of group conscious. Another example of group conscious in otherwise individualistic conscious being would be a 1000 shoulders marching together in perfect coordination! Or a group acrobatics!
I have a friend who is an unbelievable animal communicator and her insights into animal consciousness blow your mind. I find that animals are far more advanced from a Soul perspective than we could ever imagine.
This is an area I’m not on as sure footing and again, whatever we believe, how does it practically inform us for our lives now? For me the only change is an appreciation for the non human world and the “web of life”. I have become somewhat uncomfortable with “humans at the top”. I went out to a lake one day and asked the trees for forgiveness for humanity’s destruction of them. The wave of forgiveness and of “knowing” was so profound and beyond anything I could imagine it took my breath away.
In real terms, we don’t really know what’s going on here. We get these glimpses.
Also as per the Hindu school of though the aprox number of species in this word is said to be 8.4 million and as per the current assumption by BBC its round about 8.7 million. Now thats ball park a pretty accurate a figure given that 5000years back there ver no microscopes or the scope of movement was limited. Now that accurate a number has to come by realization and not by evaluation.
If animals were to be reluctant to get into human lives because of the complexities even in so called animal world (only difference between the humans and animals being a bit of frontal lobe in the brain) has unimaginable variance in the levels of complexities or extremes ranging from the viruses to almost 98% human like DNA for Chimps? Now how do they decide on this variance to decide which creature to be born as……As the vedas indicate it all starts from bare minimum…perhaps as Viruses as we know they are the border line case between living and non living…and evolve by natural progression….now the natural progression can be very well decided by the brain body mass…..and perhaps plants have a brain mechanism that may not correspond to a central nervous system but conceptually comparable. Its a fact that humans of all the species discovered till date have the highest brain to body mass ration…..
Also I would not rely on the hypnotic regression data that much as I havent seen too many transient or beyond souls who got regressed ….and there exposure to the the realms beyond might be too limited to draw the picture…. Chanel-ling opens up a whole new arena but then even the channeled souls or groups of souls would have their own levels of evolution that might turn limiting to express all that there is…..The only way to know it all is to realize being it all…..being one with the essence and thats how the vedic wisdom came into existence…through the realization of self…..the entire aim of the prism of incarnation is not to gain experiences but to realize self and to be one with it…the various experiences only aid as crutches…..the act of realizing self is not accumulative but discrete…
I very strongly feel that the various Psychic rings of energies (known as kundalini chakras) and their relative development and manifestations relative to the spiritual level of growth of a soul needs to be incorporated in this model of soul evolution to gain a better understanding to in the entire process of reincarnation. Entry into something beyond a transient soul or as vedas call Samadhi or Buddhist call Nirvana is nothing but the soul energy penetrating through the 7 psychic over eons of evolution to rip the Cranial Chakra….and that marks an end to the 7 stages of soul evolution…..and then on the soul might just come down…as and when required by essence ………..
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As a last note even though I do believe in akashic plane (again an ancient vedic notion), but I believe it is being misunderstood as a repository of souls past lives……The experiences of souls past lives get embedded in the soul itself as something described in upanishads as “Sanskara” a term popular in Budhism as well. The soul carries along the sanskaras (the impressions of this life) just like it has been carrying along the impressions of past lives….that for its instincts, intuitions and as some say conscious. It stays along as impressions…..just like our physical memory remembers our memories of last few days, and then last few weeks and then eventually only the critical memories discretely same goes with the soul…..the soul might not even be able to pin point an exact birth as we would do under regression….as its only because of regression…..
Again a soul might decide to leave a part of its energy up their….but I would still wonder why would it want to do so when its going in for its most important mission, ie a physical birth?….what it would rather believe is that what it would be leaving behind is more of a shadow…or a replica image….
Tx KEN for your replies. There is always something new to learn from just any point of view. The only thing i have to say is that i am absolutely not againt the of late download of preexisting wisdom on soul evolution of east with more focus on intricacies. I imbibe it with both hands to the point it makes sense to.me. for my reading of 108 eastern upanishads i am still of the opinion that its still a more holistic and practicle discorse on creation itself somehing that the recent hypnotic or chanelling aproach has failed to answer completely. Answers to some very basic questions are left unanswered by chanelling data. Anyway i am in a win win situation alwaya as i already have the answer to the most elimentary questions about creation through elaborate antcient wisdom lack of which makes the entire idea unholistic and unnatural plus i have access to all the mordern day refinkents through chanelling data. I am in the process of embracing both sides of the coin to get the perfect currency. Anyway we minght not be on the same page but all the best to you on your page and and all the best to me on mine hehe. Hope we both end up reading the same book in the end. Take care. On a sabatical for some time now.
Sorry for the typos.as i am always apoor speller an it turns worse on my tablet.hehe.
My last passing thoughts…I just wonder…If your Guru was right up there…ball park…why did he have to wait till he was dead and then painstakingly pass on the wisdom to you over a period of 8 years…Why couldn’t he simply throw it at you while he was still alive> Ironically, Even though Buddhism and Hinduism are put together as “eastern” religions…but it would be interesting to know if your guru a Buddhist or a Hindu…As even though lord Buddha was originally a Hindu and eventually after attaining nirvana had reveled 500 of his past lives in form of Jataka…but there are some elementary differences between Buddhism and Hinduism, The wisdom of Upanishads hold the key difference that Buddhism lacked and eventually got uprooted from the land of its origin, not by the way of sword but on pure intellectual debates…. I bet your guru must be a Buddhist!
I dont believe in big bang as its based on an absurd thought that it all happened from a nebula. There is no explanation on how the nebula came to existance. Similarly if souls came from essence, where did essence come from? If you say i dont know i will say i do know as its all elaborately discussed in upanishads. Also 35 steps are just a metamorphical concept for the ease of our comprehension. Another group of souls can come up with 40 or 45 steps etc.
Here is the bottom line as has always been my favorite quote….”The state of Samadhi or Nirvana is a state of channeling the ESSENCE directly…..once you are able to do that you don’t have to look forth towards a lesser evolved spiritual entity to know all that is…..as the creator itself lays it open to you, directly…. ”
An old story from the Upanishads….There was a guy who was trying to count the number of trees in a massive garden, desperately….An old man walked to him and asked…”Chap what are you up to?” He Said that, “Sir I have this bet to count the number of trees in this garden so I am trying hard at it”….On hearing this the old man started laughing…..He said, “buddy I ll tell you a short cut….Instead of trying to count the number of trees manually, that you might not ever be able to succeed in, why don’t you take a different approach? Why don’t you go and have a word with the Gardner who has been taking care of this garden from its inception….He has raised each and every tree of this garden as his own child…Go to him and he will have the number of trees on the tip of his tongue…..”
The metaphoric Gardner here is none other than the essence…he is the only source to be channeled to get the perfect information about his creation….and its possible through various esoteric practices….Period!
Of course this is what is meant by direct experience. After all, who are you, me, everyone anyway? The higher self of one is the higher self of all. Samadhi and Nirvana are terms not to be thrown around lightly. One can experience direct contact or “channeling of essence” without Samadhi. There are various forms of these states and most of us have not experienced at all or perhaps one or a few times in our lifetime the higher states of Samadhi. Nirvana is a Buddhist term so I am not as familiar with it as the other. I believe I experienced a Nirvana like state once. I was on a small mountain at the top looking at a grand vista and I went into complete stillness and total “beingness” with no mind activity for two hours. The peace and oneness was over whelming.
I have had hundreds of peak experiences of deep communion-union with source energy but I would not call them Samadhi. Maybe they are.
Direct contact with essence and “channeling” of such happens almost daily for me.
To me its still OK when Source or essence provides guidance in any form. The point I have been making is that unless one integrates it into some form of direct contact, direct experience, its value is diminished.
There is a difference, for example, in reading about Jesus in the Bible and communicating with him directly. There is a difference between reading about God and experiencing that you are it (“Thou Art That”.
Dear Ken,
the bottom margin line , as I already stated the bottom line :)…….Nice to read through your views. I agree to most of what you say……but for the time being I have more important goal in hand…..I am sure my soul must have planed to get over a basic tendency of mine to end up sounding “rude” while trying to state my point of view…and I must say that you and even Barry are way ahead of me on that one…if not already mastered the art…so for the time being everything else takes a back seat and my focus is back on not to sound arrogant, cocky if not all together rude….that I know I mostly end up sounding…Humility is a great art to master and to deliver, and I am still trying to master it…..In the end I would want to believe that we being here would imply that we are on the right trajectory in the way of realizing ourselves and to work upon ourselves….and I am pretty much working upon myself…As I said I ll rather go on a sabbatical for some time , trying my way out on being more humble and not rude….All the best to you guys for the work you are doing….I ll get back once I am sure I am humble enough to express my views not by not sounding rude……Take care…. I will catch up 🙂
I think you’re doing fine. Just the fact that you are drawn to this site, are participating in and resonate with the energy and concepts, and are using it as a step in your journey all point to me that in your essence you are pretty developed. I do want to comment on your questions-thoughts about my Guru but I’ll do that later.
You’re right where you need to be. (Now if I can only get that through my own thick skull). For me judgment is a huge contract issue.
I didn’t plan to sound rude about your guru, but somewhere I know I just did…A guru is much like a father…. pretty unique and customized , they all have their pluses and unique ways to nurture their young ones or disciples. just like I would say my Daddy strongest, my Guru is the best everyone has a similar right…and I need to l\earn to respect that…. I should not have been judgmental as I know its a pretty emotional and individualistic touch point. sorry if i just hurt. I will be back to know more about him in some time. Take care and keep evolving. all the best! 🙂
You wrote
“My last passing thoughts…I just wonder…If your Guru was right up there…ball park…why did he have to wait till he was dead and then painstakingly pass on the wisdom to you over a period of 8 years…Why couldn’t he simply throw it at you while he was still alive> Ironically, Even though Buddhism and Hinduism are put together as “eastern” religions…but it would be interesting to know if your guru a Buddhist or a Hindu…As even though lord Buddha was originally a Hindu and eventually after attaining nirvana had reveled 500 of his past lives in form of Jataka…but there are some elementary differences between Buddhism and Hinduism, The wisdom of Upanishads hold the key difference that Buddhism lacked and eventually got uprooted from the land of its origin, not by the way of sword but on pure intellectual debates…. I bet your guru must be a Buddhist!”
I think this entails some ignorance as to who or what Guru is and how the energy works.
First off, my Guru (Shri Shri Anandamurti -which means figure of or embodiment of bliss), was not that well known in the West like Sai Baba was, yet he had millions of followers. So you must understand the idea of a “personal” relationship once his movement flowered in the human relational sense of perhaps “chatting” or talking with him in a room for let’s say an hour was never a possibility. People would fly thousands of miles and almost fight just to get perhaps 10 minutes of what was called “physical contact”. Add to this he was unavailable at all for 8 years as a political prisoner of the Indian Government (Case taken by Amnesty International was thrown out eventually). So imparting wisdom to me personally when the form was used to mentor millions as an entry point just does not apply.
But it was my experience over years, especially when I saw him for the only time physically in India in the entire 20 year period that I began to understand what was going on. True Guru is not a person. It is direct Source energy completely flowing through the form. My Guru used to say, “I am not this form. What I am is far beyond this form”. And ‘Those who will be closest to me will be those who realize me deepest in their meditation. They can be in the back of the room (or not in it at all) but will experience me far more intimately than many who are in closest physical proximity”.
So as I said, the idea of “why didn’t he express these things directly” has no bearing. Secondly, there are phases to our growth. Two things of primary importance happened in the twenty years while he was alive. First, my contact with him was though dreams, huge dreams, Biblical dreams, like Jacob and the ladder. I would wake up from his presence in dozens and dozens of dreams over the years in a state of ecstasy, bliss and love. These were Samadhi like experiences. My belief is that there was a contract between Guru (my higher self representation) and me (“lower self” or “incarnated self”) in that I was not going to be emotionally strong enough to gain darshan or Divine contact through traditional means (going to India) and thus an arrangement was set up whereby his energy would come to me in a fairly unique manner. Thus I bonded to him intimately through this contact. And he was not like Gurus of today who tour the U.S. and/or are very available. Not only was he in prison for 8 years, but he almost never left India (three times
in his lifetime. So he made it REALLY hard to get to him.
In addition, my karma was such that in that period when he was alive, I had a very severe nervous breakdown, partly precipitated by his imprisonment. Which he foretold in a dream very specifically two years before it happened.
So you must understand, the kind of “human” perception of how things should look like or be is vastly different than the way, manner and purpose of how things unfolded. Also, we grow through experience, so to just “throw it out there” is inappropriate. Much of this learning came at huge cost, almost a fight for my life. And if you read of the severity of some Guru’s lessons for disciples, you can see here how it played out that way, just not in the traditionally depicted manner.
I will finish this soon. but that answers your first part.
Second part.
My Guru was a Yogic Master from the Hindu lineage. He based his teachings on the eight limb path of Patanjali , which he updated.The six lessons of Ananda Marga were based upon this system.
Yama : Universal morality
Niyama : Personal observances
Asanas : Body postures
Pranayama : Breathing exercises, and control of prana
Pratyahara : Control of the senses
Dharana : Concentration and cultivating inner perceptual awareness
Dhyana : Devotion, Meditation on the Divine
Samadhi : Union with the Divine
There are profound differences between the Hindu -Yogic path and Buddhism. My Guru emphasized devotion to the Supreme Consciousness (Brahman) as the primary object of all our spiritual practice. The idea of an organized intelligent Source is absolutely central to the path, as it is for most. For Buddhism, however, this is not clear. Even if Buddhism believes in a Source, it is not concerned with it. I have many Tibetan Buddhist friends and that path is rather adamant that there is no organized central intelligence, but rather a “plenum void of infinite possibilities”. I am not an expert in this area but in reading the fine print, it seems Buddha may have been aware of Source but did not want to focus on it. A famous line attributed to him is (paraphrase) if a poison apple is shot into you, why bother as to who shot it or why? Just fix the problem.
My Guru chastised the Buddha saying Buddha was aware of the Supreme but refused to name him. He also said that to believe there was no central organizing principle was to believe a windstorm swept through a junkyard and assembled a fully functioning 747.
My own take is that we must remember the context of the emergence of Buddhism, which arose in a period of corruption of Hinduism and over attachment to a plethora of Gods and Goddesses in a semi materialistic way. Thus Buddhism, with its pointed clarity of investigation of consciousness and suffering-liberation here and now was a huge antidote to this problem. I find Buddhism to be a great, great wisdom tradition (it does not consider itself a religion per se), and one of the greatest contributions the world has ever known. I love Pema Chodron and find that Buddhist thought grounds me often when I get too flighty.
However, at heart I am not a Buddhist. I follow a devotional path. Angels as we know them now, guides, inter galactic friends, Soul cobtracts -these things are alien to Buddhism. However I must stipulate that devotion is a paradox. For in following devotion, devotion eventually dissembles for one realizes there is no separation between the object and Self. Thou Art That. As the Course in Miracles says forgiveness is not really necessary because at the highest levels everyone is doing what they are supposed to do, but is useful while in the human dualistic framework, similarly there is ultimately no need for devotion because one already IS what one seeks, but again it is useful while in this dualistic framework.
I cannot be fully Buddhist not only because I was profoundly mentored in devotion but my experience is that there is an intelligent Source to life. Other traditions express this quite well. Here is one of my favorite poems by Kabir:
I. 85. Sâdho, Brahm alakh lakhâyâ
When He Himself reveals Himself, Brahma brings into manifestation That which can never be seen.
As the seed is in the plant, as the shade is in the tree, as the void is in the sky, as infinite forms are in the void–
So from beyond the Infinite, the Infinite comes; and from the Infinite the finite extends.
The creature is in Brahma, and Brahma is in the creature: they are ever distinct, yet ever united.
He Himself is the tree, the seed, and the germ.
He Himself is the flower, the fruit, and the shade.
He Himself is the sun, the light, and the lighted.
He Himself is Brahma, creature, and Maya.
He Himself is the manifold form, the infinite space;
He is the breath, the word, and the meaning.
He Himself is the limit and the limitless: and beyond both the limited and the limitless is He, the Pure Being.
He is the Immanent Mind in Brahma and in the creature.
The Supreme Soul is seen within the soul,
The Point is seen within the Supreme Soul,
And within the Point, the reflection is seen again.
Kabîr is blest because he has this supreme vision!
Mirrors the Upanishads very nicely. Yet I cannot deny the enormous contribution Buddhism has given my life.
No, my Guru most assuredly was not a Buddhist.
Take care.
I really like what you have written.. I’m a sikh and a follower of bhagat Kabeer Ji.. I went to thailand to practice meditation in a buddhist school and felt there was something really important missing and you have highlighted the same feeling. Do u have face book profile? I’m a serious meditator, so it will be interesting to exchange thoughts…
Thanks. I have a Facebook profile but really am not much of a social media person. WE might dialogue some here. I agree I might have problems at a Buddhist retreat but you never know. The mind can’t know. Whatever is for the best usually shows up. Ram Das once said that things for him that once were very dry had become “moist” (rich). So strangely a Buddhist retreat at the right time could be very “moist”.
But generally I agree. I am not drawn to traditional Buddhist forms but to be honest, I’m not drawn anymore to traditional forms of any kind anymore, even the path I once studied.
I am now drawn to what I believe has been emerging for some tome, A gnostic, Western form devoted to the “technology of consciousness” expressed through channeling, other forms, and direct experience. These dovetail with, but are not contained (or constrained by) older traditions.
This site is an expression of that form. All, are at the stage they need to be.
Just to end it on a poetic note…
Sometimes I am on a high…
and I tend to fly…
eventually,
when I reach the bottom…
I tend to ask …why?…… Lol// 🙂
And, of course, I am on my desktop to make no typos, Tx Barry for incorporating the Spell check. I would request for a modify line item feature though, for the second thoughts 🙂
Ps: spell check somehow doesn’t work on my TAB :). I know I might sound obsessed about spellings…but perhaps its one of my life plans 🙂
Guru – Part 3
Just to finish this off. As I mentioned Gurus with large followings often don’t have much or any time for one on one interaction to a lengthy degree. Their energy and presence is usually experienced in crowds. Sai Baba is one example.
However the true Guru as I have said is not the form but Source consciousness moving through the form. Since we are also Source consciousness moving through our forms, the true Guru is within and we are one with it.
Therefore, the inner Guru knows of things, events, pathways that the outer Guru may never address because of many factors such as the need to be a bridge for millions of devotees of great diversity. There can be little opportunity to address complex individual issues through one form.
But, ah, the inner Guru has all the time and flexibility in the world once the connection is made to address these issues and phases of the journey. Thus my Guru never spoke of angels or channeling or Soul Contracts or extensively of the Law of Attraction.etc. It wasn’t his job.
I noticed early on the often I was inwardly guided to do things that seemed against outer Guru’s discipline or teaching. Once Guru died in form, inner Guru, the real Guru, was entirely still active. I had dreams, powerful dreams with my Guru (and other Gurus such as Neem Karoli Baba) well after their deaths. And the guidance to paths such as Angels and channeling were Guru directed, even though physically my “Baba” never really addressed them.
But inner Guru knew. And knew what I needed and took steps to address those needs. Because I had been so emotionally sick during much of the time Baba had been alive (1976-1984), there was a tremendous “Guru wound”. Thus the extraordinary appearance of the Guru in channeled form. Guru mentioned once in a channeling how highly unusual it was for him to use that vehicle. But it afforded an intimacy and opportunity to heal and teach that was unparalleled and totally needed to heal the deficiency of love that I experienced when he was alive.
Inner Guru can use anything and will direct one very specifically to what one needs in ways that the outer form is incapable. That’s why these issues could not be addressed in the manner you suggested. Also, if a phase of learning is years down the road, how could the outer form possibly make it clear until the time came?
Hope this helps.
P.S. And for those who never get an “outer Guru”, EVERYONE has the inner Guru. Because it is within and you are it. “More blessed are tjose who have not seen, yet believed”.
all I wanted to know is, if God gives us free choice, I would imagine that’s not just in this life, but also the next. The question is, whether the choice is of our present consciousness, or our higher consciousness? if it’s the latter, then surely that’s an interference of “my” choice ?
So if I have understood you correctly, Brian, you’re suggesting that if, in moving on after this life to a state of higher consciousness, we become better able to make wise choices than we are as mere human personalities, then that must undermine our human choices?
Well, the free choices available to us “up there” are not the same as we face here. For example, a soul on the higher planes cannot choose between killing and not killing, whereas down here we can and many do. That’s precisely why souls come here, to face choices that don’t exist in spirit.
We always have free will, but it is through the human experience that we gradually come to understand what it means and how to use it. Then it is through our return to higher consciousness that we gain the wisdom of hindsight.
You might get to the end of this life, move into higher consciousness and realise that the way you treated someone was not the best choice. They will see it too, but in higher consciousness you will also both have the compassion to forgive yourself for having acted out of ignorance at the time. As a soul, you respect the free will of your human personality with a great sense of love, and a longing to do it better next time.
Also bear in mind that having higher consciousness is not the same as being totally evolved.
I hope this answers it, but if not let me know.
Barry can you please help me with a question? My friend believes she is the reincarnation of Edward Weston even though he died eight years after she was born. Do you believe this is possible?
Ken I would love your answer also. Thank you.
I was once told that I had been a certain architect in my previous life – there are good similarities, but he was retired on a beach while I was being born, so I don’t really know how that works. My instinct says, no, not likely. Though that doesn’t make it not possible of course. They could in theory be “parallel” incarnations of the same soul.
Great stuff!
Hi Barry, me again! I have one question: you say that once the soul has reached its final stage then it mingles with all the souls it knew and they become one in a light of love? But what if your soul is finished and those you loved on earth still have a long way to go? This is something that confuses and saddens me, if we cannot be reunited with those we love after death.
Also, I have written about my first experience with a Past Life Regressionist that I had recently; if you recall, I emailed you enquiring on how to go about it. It is on my blog, you may find it interesting if you have time to read it.
Hi skyespitfire
You’re imagining how a highly evolved soul would feel from a human perspective, projecting human experiences of loss, frustration and longing onto a level of consciousness where such things are not experienced. Being “separated” from specific beings you regard as “loved ones” today is just not an issue.
Great to hear about your PLR, skyespitfire – I’ll take a look.
Hi again – very much enjoyed reading your PLR experience, and particularly like your writing style. Would you like to add a link here?
B
Thank you Barry, I’m glad you liked it! It really was a fascinating experience and it, among other things this year, has really worked towards a transition for me. The link to my article? Certainly, if you don’t mind, shall I just c+p here?
Here we go:
Who I Was in My Past Life, by Skye Spitfire
http://skyespitfire.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/289/
Just a few pointers that were roaming in my mind for sometime and I felt like re regurgitating over here…as the best forum:
1) 35 steps of michael are a way for the commoners to conceptualize and make sense of every thing that is specially a discrete concept of reincarnation and may not be discrete in itself!
2) The actual Channels of Michael may just be 5% of the total download, rest might just be instances of schizophrenia, people assuming being channeled or having bizarre hearings or visions, or are suffering from ADHS.Barry will know it better being a psychologist himself.
3) Too much of the download has human mindset in evidence. May be there is 10% of actual downloads by genuine Chanel rests seem to me human interventions. People manipulating stuff claiming it to be channeled when its actually just there though process working in…..
4) Concepts that seem to be pretty much human:
4.1) only humans having souls. (showing insecurity of some human being not being comfortable of being an animal life in previous life)
4.2) Souls having preference for geographic regions (showing of some human being not being comfortable with being born in Africa previously over and over again. At most it might be a preference to a gender that evens out as 50- 50 anyway)
4.3) Dolphins being the only other creatures to have a soul. What I feel is that the question that was actually asked was “are there souls from any other planet on the earth” and the answer could be dolphins…..but the question being projected seems to be…are there any other souls other than humans…the answer dolphins …..from some other planet soesnt sound right.
4.4) souls and lives are different…..body lives till soul hangs in….or it lives at the mercy of other souls…..that is as a fetus in mothers womb at mercy of the motherly soul…..he individuality comes in only after the birth when the soul joins in at the moment of birth….before that life is dependent on or a reflection of the will of motherly soul…
4.5) Souls have complete control of what situations are brought to them….they are only in complete control of the response to the situations being brought to them…..
Essence is not for us….but we are for the essence….so its not always going to be what “WE decide for ourselves”….but in the end what “essence decides for US” (based on very discrete laws) for its own grand evolutionary purpose ….whether we like it or not! In the end we are all pure fragments of essence entrapped in our evolutionary lenses, (be it animals or humans or whatever) seeing the world accordingly, with a sense of EGO, till we evolve and reach a sense of true realization of self…after ripping apart all the delusional personalities we have assumes by work of MAYA (The delusional force set forth by the essence himself!). Reaching the ultimate realization, that in our pure essence , we are nothing but just the essence! Aham Brahamasmi! Eko Brahma Ditno na asti! (i.e. I am thee and there is no second but just me!).
Very well put but given where we are now I would encourage you to deemphasize the linear thinking. (Even though it is useful) You always were the essence, you are the essence, you always will be the essence. Realization to me is not about getting anywhere, it is unlayering of obstructions to that which is eternally present as the only reality. Just saying what you are in a different way.
To be honest I could really get this one at the point ” Realization to me is not about getting anywhere, it is unlayering of obstructions to that which is eternally present as the only reality. Just saying what you are in a different way.” if you could elasticated! 🙂
LOL again an auto generated typo…..the last word is not elasticated . but elucidate….:)
What some would perceive as linear approach I perceive as holistic approach and a realistic approach. We are all essence and always have been and always will be is not something to be heard about or talked about as thats the only linear approach I can think of. One can end up listening to discourses of a guru for 50years and can get the same information by channeling around or reading about, but whats the end result on progression? Almost zero. Something, why a souls would decide to take a plunge in physical world as it’s a more realistic experience than just piling up or other forms of information that takes you nowhere if you are not realizing the information. At this point in time let me put forth my understanding of the word “realization”.
1) One reads, one channel or one listen to people, alive or dead, work upon your intuitions driven by direct indirect experiences including that of previous lives, one listens to others discuss with others, form opinions and concepts etc its all in the same boat; that’s just part one , that’s what I call a linear approach.
2) One sits down and tries to make sense of all that they have gathered accumulated by brains, minds, intelligence, intellect, further opinions and information from others (including channelling). That’s still a linear approach. It still wont take one anywhere.
3) Finally comes the point where you know that you have reached a point of saturation as far as gathering linear approaches you have taken so far and decide to take a more holistic approach that is to “REALIZE”, realise all that is being accumulated.
4) To realize is to experience something directly, the personal direct experiences and not about someone elses direct experiences; individualistically practically and not just mere cognitively or as opinions of others on what they have practically experienced. There is no second or second opinion in realization as they can always be deceiving. And no one really needs to look upto someone else to know just anything at all, as all the information and knowledge is stored within us anyway, we just need to connect to it from inside and not connect to it from outside…thats a futile pathway.
5) In the end the one and only reason for this entire hula bulla of creation is a game being played between the omnipresent essence and the “egoistic” “individualistic” reflection if it ie the soul. And the only and “the one and only reason” and the only “holistic” reason of soul going on the journey or self-realization through reincarnation is to “REALIZE” and to “REALIZE” and to REALIZE…… SELF; OR ESSENE. And when I say realize I really don’t mean knowing or saying the phrase that “we are all essence” realizing means practically experiencing being the essence, and when you “realize” and not just think that you are the essence all mysteries are automatically resolved as essence consciousness if far above any of the channelled consciousness.
6) I remember hearing a phrase “we are essence”….When one realize the state of Brahma (essense) i.e a state of Samadhi there are no “we’s” there is only” I”. Also, our discussion about Samadhi states which is none other than state of self realization is not a small world. There are several stages and sub stages and then the final stage that is poorn (complete) Samadhi (realization) or Nirvikalpa samadhi (Realization without a dual aspect).
It would take another forum altogether to discuss all this but just one thing, that, its not unusual to experience some aspect of Samadhi at less intense levels, at times even spontaneously, or even during sleep state. Mordern science is aware of these phenomenon’s and tries to label them as sleep paralysis or lucid dreaming, but boy oh boy these are nothing less than some real and amazing OOB experiences or a state of high. I have had so many of these, every one is bound to have atleast a few, as all have their relative levels of Kundalini energy working its way through chackras (psychic plexus). However, the state of poorna (complete) Samadhi is as rare as the Buddha’s and the Christ’s or the last olds and the transients & beyond. The achievement of poorna Samadhi is a sign of graduation from the cycles of physical birth. The one who attains it is the one who gains liberation or “nirvana” from cycles of physical births, and the one who comes back to physical world for special purposes re-lives through the experience before starting of and becomes a Buddha…..
35 steps of evolution for the soul are something similar to 4 steps of evolution mentioned in some eastern texts….as Child state, scholar state, married state and the dispassionate state….
The soul types are more discrete a concept than the 35 steps as they are concrete…..as it is…..King, scholar, artisans and scholars are facts and not concepts. If 2moro some one comes in and says that as per some channel source there are 5 stages of being king et all….and that becomes non discrete. Its astonishing that the 5 soul types were discussed in Vedas at least 5000 years back as it is….to the point of being just exact copies by modern day channel insight. Many westerns confuse the 4 strata Varna system mentioned in Vedas with the 4 strata cast system that was only an expression of human mind set…something similar to the concept of slavery in many non eastern systems…….the Vedas never lied….it was all there 5000 years back as it is….!!
Not to forget the servers…the Shudras as mentioned 5000 years back…and highly misinterpreted then and as well as now….
Still I would say 35 steps have become a part of my conceptualization of creation,,,,,,, so has the types of souls and the soul mate concepts , soul guides etc that never were so clearly conceptualized in the eastern wisdom….perhaps the world is going through a major paradigm change……but I would still want the ea”s”t and the west to fuse at this point in time….and move on and move over…. else am “s”till a big fan of 35 steps just a”s” concept for t”hat” matter….it makes sense….even as a concept……
Why worry about East and West? Isn’t that the task of “essence”. Anyway I’d say its happening because YOU already are a fusion of East and West. Let the collective deal with itself. That’s its business. You’re doing fine with your piece of the pie from my perspective..
Hey Ken nice to see you again :). I agree, why worry about east or west….but sometimes I find west dealing with arrogance to the wisdom of east that might actually hasten the process of our understanding of these concepts in entirety…..Why reject and waste the wisdom thats there already and get driven by a passion to discover something new when its nothing new at all but only a progression on something pretty ancient….I remember you quoting a saying by one one of your Buddhist friends…what difference does it make how you reached here, what matters is where you are heading next…My reply to that would be “you can never be sure about where you are heading till you are not sure of where you are coming from…If you tend to start a fresh at every point there is a strong possibility of heading back North when you are already coming from North….and just dont recollect it!
Bottom line: I would have never understood the concept of reincarnation without the so clear mention of 35 steps (even if conceptual) even with all my accumulated ancient wisdom about reincarnation!
I must say I remember going through a lot of stuff while trying to find answers to a lot of questions I had and your site gave me a lot of solace………and opened me up for a new dimension all together…
EASTERN CAST SYSTEM: A BLESSING IN DISGUISE FOR THE SOULS? Channeling soul types= 6/3 + 1 = 4; Varna system = 4 discrete blocks! Even though the Varna system described in ancient Vedas were more indicative of 4 basic tendencies and nature of souls in general that pretty much incorporates the 7 types described more recently by channeling sources; however the cast system based on division by birth that came up as a result of misinterpreting it over ages, acted as a blessing in disguise for the planning souls. It made their before birth planning and execution so much easier buy knowing that just by being born to certain parents in some cast lineage would automatically expose them to certain experiences that they would want to gather. For example if I as a soul planned to experience real humiliation and discrimination I would simply choose to be born as a Shudra (lowest on the supposed cast stack) and I would know for sure I would come across ample incidences of humiliations and discrimination because of my social strata. On the other hand if it were to be an all equal all just environment I would have to invest a lot more energy on planning and then to find the conducive scenarios to face humiliation and discrimination. Having a segregated dissimilar cast stacking and privileges even though can be argued to be unjustifiable but still hints towards a grander planning.
TYPO; 6/2 + 1 = 4 ; lol 🙂 more precisely east says the warrior class includes kings and the warriors and the west wants to put it separately as warriors and kings….et all….
THE UMBILICAL CHORD, TIME OF SOUL FUSION AND VOLUNTARY “REAL” OUT OF BODY SOULS AND NOT MERE OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES OR ASTRAL PROJECTIONS: There are notions about the possible time when the soul enters the fetus…ranging from 6-7 months (with a reasonable brain development level ) or right at the time of the birth or even being in and out of it several times before finally integrating into it….all possibilities are pretty possible and perhaps all coexist. However there might be different times of for the soul to actually enter the fetus but intuitively I feel that there is a dead line. And the dead line is the cutting of the umbilical chord. The mothers soul is the life support system of the to be born fetus till it is connected to it with the umbilical chord…The fetus soul can come and join in and anytime before that as technically two souls can share the same body (easy examples would be conjoint twins who share at least some parts of their bodies).
Now two souls can share a conjoined body but a body cant be termed “living” without at least one soul energy in it. Chopping the umbilical chord is the end of the direction connection between the mother body and its extension ie the fetus. From that moment on the baby is truly “born” and is an individual independent from mothers soul and would not sustain on its own if not taken over and propelled by the soul energy (also termed as Pranic energy in east). no instances of astral travel might be a common phenomenon but soul physically moving out of the body at will and moving around in the physical sphere is surely not common. Though there are a few eccentric eastern “Hath yoga techniques” that can be mastered over several years of practice that will let you travel in and out of body at will in the physical sphere as well (of course measures have to be made to protect and keep the vitals got the left body in place, again using some known techniques of Kundalini yoga) it is not recommended as it can turn out to be a daunting task for soul body integration at a later time…..its just like taking an engine out of the car and then putting it back…the calibration will never be the same as the original. The instances are rare but do exist and are well documented. A more famous instance is that of a very well known yogi temporarily leaving his body to his disciples to enter, an about to be dead body (vital signs kept up by the combined soul energies of the disciples) in order to peruse the understanding of a concept during a debate that he could have attained only in a different body.
Lets keep aside east or west but its nice to know that there are different soul types….and its pretty evident from what we see around us that it pretty much is the fact. LEts all agree to the fact not getting into details as of now. But a more natural question for me would be ….what decides upon some souls having a particular soul type and other a different one? Is it all assigned randomly? I still need to go a long distance before I start to believe that there is something random possible in this universe……everything seems to be governed by a law a rule…..even events termed as accidents even though could be ” surprises” for the soul are governed by discrete laws…. there is no law of probability as probability depends on some discrete calculations…the laws put fort by essense to govern “random accidents or surprises”.
If someone could help me with my fanatical particularity about spellings be it any language, that I never seem to get right! Could I have been a retarded doctor who killed a few patients due to a misspelled spelling of a medicine? LOLZ. I am crazy about medicines as well to say the least. Barry I would really love to see you incorporating some sort of real time channeling, PLRs modes as well even if paid onto your blog…..it would lead to a more comprehensive pit stop….for wandering souls like me 🙂
Or may be I was a patient who got killed due to bad spellings by another doctor……either ways…. 🙂
I don’t agree to the fact that souls don’t have a time sense….perhaps their (or rather ours to be precise) sense of time might be different from the physical sense of time but they do seem to have a sense of urgency to be one with es sense. Else it doesn’t make sense for the souls to choose difficult lives to evolve “quicker”! The sense of “proverbial” time is always there if not in physical sense of minutes and seconds but in some spiritual terminology……perhaps the race against the moment before the essence reaches its contracting phase…where the level of evolution for the soul becomes immaterial for an evolving soul….. (complete download from the eastern wisdom)
contracting phase is equal to non expanding phase…cont to be confused with soul “contracts”!
ASTRAL PROJECTIONS: The term “Astral projection” is a very well devised terminology…..the reasons being the fact that under normal circumstances souls can only “project” and not “eject”. The moment soul “ejects” out of the body, it is physical death. Now of course you can sustain symptoms of life can be sustained virtually on life support systems for eons, but life without a soul is no life at all! Just like you can have highly intelligent feeling AI programs that can defeat a major chunk or real intelligence but then we never get the real feel of life out of AI even though symptoms might be similar.
In eastern yoga sutra this phenomenon is explained by an example of a bird tied to a pole with a thread….the bird might sit right at the top of the pole or decide to flutter around (project) till the string allows it to…. the moment the thread becomes too weak or the bird turns too desperate to leave the pole , the sting breaks and the bird is set free for ever (ie ejected)….The soul once set free (ejected) is set free even though it was doing all the astral travel (projections) all this while. Ejection is jumping out of the boat and projection is stretching your one foot into water while other is still grounded into the boat.
The string in the bird is the string of Prana (energy driving the soul). stronger and longer the pranic Channels are, the stronger and deeper are the projections….. but one ejected a and until and unless you have developed some yogic proficiency….its all set free…..even the yogis who are able to master the art of yogic ejections and then manage to return back to the pole….end up with a knot on the string…….
Andre
I appreciate your deep immersion into Eastern and particularly Hindu writings. but I would encourage you to rely and express from YOUR experiences, not the writings of others. You may be in a place where these writings help form a core of your beliefs and I respect how important they are for you, but it is my life experience that as one awakens, the formation of inner beliefs relies more and more on one’s own contact with these things. All writings to some extent have to be filtered through the mind which is a poor conveyor of things beyond it.
The writings on this REincarnational subject interest me because intuitionally I have had personal experience which validates it. I stay away from things with certainty I have not had personal experience with. Thus Astral travel is interesting, I believe in it, have friends who do it, but because i have not done it (consciously) i claim no expertise in the area.
The above was completely my intuitive experience (and not channelization ie someone elses experiences). Pegs can always be put around to substantiate your own experiences…..Thats my mind speaking up out of intuitions substantiated through my realization gathered several DIRECT ex gathered over several past lives….. and not someone else mind through unreliable charlatanism…lets keep aside the bird example mentioned in yoga sutra lets come down to pure logic……! It would be interesting to know that when you use a phrase like direct experience what you actually mean? I hope its not your assumption of assumed challened instances where you are not really having any direct experiences but st getting to know channeled beings iw point?? if at all! Plz tell how much of a truly direct experience you have had…..ie directly with the essence….and we will talk about it…..
The one above the above was completely my intuitive experience (and not channelization ie someone elses experiences). Pegs can always be put around to substantiate your own experiences…..Thats my mind speaking up out of intuitions substantiated through my realization gathered over by several DIRECT experiences over several past lives….. and not someone elses mind through unreliable channelism…lets keep aside the bird example mentioned in yoga sutra lets come down to pure logic……! It would be interesting to know that when you use a phrase like “direct experience” what you actually mean? I hope its not your assumption of assumed challenged instances where you are not really having any direct experiences but just getting to know channeled beings point of view?? if at all its not plain schizophrenia! Plz tell how much of a truly direct experience you have had…..ie directly with the essence….and we will talk about it…..
intuitions rule over channeling as the knowledge from deep within yourself is far profound than the knowledge from out side! Is your soul guide or you guru the essence? No!!!! are you assuming that your guru or your soul guides or entities can never go wrong…..ridiculous…..I trust only the essence and the fact that only he can never go wrong….and I am in the process of reaching him directly and realizing him directly….and not through crutches of supposed channels….PERIOD!
I am sorry if I offended you but I was direct. Perhaps I should have been more discrete. What I experienced was a great deal of referencing of (mostly) Hindu scriptures. I don’t doubt that you have had many genuine intuitive direct encounters with what you term essence. But for example in the astral travel section you did not say or reference something like “from my experiences with Astral travel I have noticed a compatibility with this scripture which defines it as (whatever) and I find an uncanny similarity of expression to the experiences I have had.”
There were many posts like that where I experienced you referencing texts. This is not to say that you have not had encounters that validated those texts, especially because many of them DO come from very exalted states.
My own experience however is that anything filtered through the mind (even the teachings here) and language, especially scripture, is difficult to truly reconcile with present day direct experience. I have found very little for example, in any ancient sources, that have the directness of technological elegance of the work being done in certain areas, such as NDE.
Example. I first encountered the idea of soul contracts, not through reading or talks, but from a Divine Intervention. This was many years before the concept came from other sources. I was walking with a friend in a city park in Center City Philadelphia and he was truly disconsolate because he had a young female friend who had been
murdered working at a small retain store in the city. Nothing I could say could assauge his grief and shock. Suddenly I was surrounded by a powerful cone of light that entered me and I heard myself saying,”Her death was preordained as a sacrifice and gift to advance the knowledge and experience of the preciousness of life for those around her and were close to her.” There was a peace that pervaded the space around us and embraced both of us, leaping in a sense to him so that he felt it very strongly and viscerally. Immediately he calmed down because the entire event resonated so strongly for him, that it validated the truth coming through.
This is just one example of direct experience for me in my life. I understand you may have some ire because I do not know you and may have made presumptions that are incorrect. For that I apologize.
However, just to clarify further, I am experiencing you creating divisions where there are none. Self-Essence-God whatever we choose to call it is one. You have aptly already stated the truth “Thou Art That”. The great reality is there is only one thing that plays itself out in many forms. So in truth, guides, Guru, Angels etc, from my world view are only aspects of me (not from ego perspective) since in truth, the reality of who I already am is everything. There is in truth no separation. That is the job of what I know you know the Hindus called Maya.
Thus, in my opinion there is no right way to access “essence”. Guru or Angels or whatever are me coming to me because In duality, I play the game of otherness but I am conscious its a useful tool, not the deepest truth.And like you, ultimately, however energy or information comes to me, I must run it through my own internal compass of resonance. Is this true for me or not? In the end we are all the sole arbiter of what we accept or don’t.
Again, sorry if I offended. Didn’t mean to.