According to many spiritual teachers, all human beings are, in reality, spiritual beings on a human journey. We reincarnate as human beings in order to evolve as souls.
Our ultimate aim is to become fully conscious and capable as unique individual expressions of All That Is. It is a long journey, but that’s okay because the soul is eternal.
Contents
Soul Evolution
The soul’s journey is really a process of evolving. This means growing in consciousness, steadily progressing through different levels or stages of consciousness. How do we grow in consciousness? Through taking on challenging experiences in physical form. These cause us to make important, “soul-searching” choices and call upon us to discover our inner resources. But why in physical form? Why would a perfectly happy spiritual being decide to inhabit the physical realm with all of its limitations and difficulties? It is precisely so that we can experience the state of what feels like total separation from others and from the rest of reality. Only by going into this physically separated human form can we know ourselves as beings in our own right, and not just as … well … undifferentiated blobs of energy. Being physical throws our experiences and choices into extremely sharp relief in a way that is not possible otherwise. This is how we learn who we are and how to become all that we are. In other words:
Choice and the ramifications of choice provide the essential lessons of life. In a very real sense, you choose to be here in order to make choices.
Messages from Michael
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
The 35 Steps
We are here to know ourselves and be all we can be, step by step. And according to the teachings of the entity known as Michael, there are 35 steps to the reincarnational process. The body and personality you have now are merely the vehicles you have chosen for this latest step in your journey.
But why 35 steps? Why not 36 steps? Or 10? Or 100?
It is simply because, according to Michael, we go through five major stages of evolution through reincarnation. And, within each stage there are seven increments or levels to be completed. (Yes, it is rather like a computer game.) 5 x 7 = 35. 
Each single step requires a whole lifetime to complete. In fact, each step usually requires more than one lifetime. Typically, the entire journey of 35 steps takes well over a hundred lifetimes. So let’s look at the journey in more detail. We’ll start with the five major stages of soul evolution through reincarnation.
The Five Stages
The Michael teachings describe a sequence of five “cycles” or stages of soul evolution. They are named after the stages of human development:
- Stage 1: The INFANT Soul
- Stage 2: The BABY Soul [also known as CHILD Soul]
- Stage 3: The YOUNG Soul
- Stage 4: The MATURE Soul
- Stage 5: The OLD Soul
Each of these five corresponds to a specific level of development in capability and self-awareness within the individual soul. As the soul goes through each stage, the focus changes, more experience is gained, and consciousness expands. 
Incidentally, the same pattern of soul evolution has been identified by the hypnotherapist Michael Newton (right). His groundbreaking research was published in the best-selling book Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Llewellyn, 1994). The books by Newton and his students draw upon thousands of transcripts of people who, under hypnotic regression, have re-experienced being between lives. From the higher perspective of their soul they are able to explain what happens after death and before birth. This includes information about the levels of consciousness through which reincarnating souls evolve. What Newton and others have discovered is that souls between lives exist in light-form, and that each soul emanates a particular colour of the spectrum which indicates its current level of consciousness. The spectrum begins at white (all colours) but then goes through red, yellow, green, blue, to deep purple and violet. From low frequency to high frequency. The least evolved souls — the “newbies” — have a pinkish hue. The oldest souls — those nearing the end of the whole reincarnational cycle — have a blueish hue. Although the spectrum is a continuum, Dr. Newton has found that it can be divided into five distinct stages or levels of evolvement, from Level I to Level V. These can be mapped onto the five stages given in the Michael teachings, from Infant soul to Old soul.
So, for example, souls in the middle (or third) stage of reincarnation are referred to as “Young souls” in the Michael teachings and they are at what Newton would call “Level III”. They will have a yellowish or golden hue. (As an aside, both Newton and the Michael entity also identify higher levels of soul evolution which do not involve reincarnation.) The stages of reincarnation (or soul age) can also be likened to the stages of metamorphosis we see in nature, such as egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly. In reincarnation, though, what changes is not the physical form but the mode of consciousness, especially the form of self-awareness and — as a result — the way of relating to others.
A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Soul age characteristics
Soul age affects how an individual lives, thinks, acts, and comes across to others. 
Stage 1 — Infant Souls
Infant souls focus on immediate survival needs. They flourish in simple environments close to nature, such as remote tribes or rural, pastoral settings.
In the context of modern society, however, they can come across as uncivilised simpletons or yokels, and may even be deemed to be psychopathic or have some sort of developmental disorder.
Psychologically, infant souls are naive, impulsive and “pre-conventional”, acting on impulse or habit with little or no thought for consequences.
Because they lack both social understanding and self-inhibition, they are capable of committing antisocial or immoral acts without any sense of wrongdoing. As such, they do not fit well within modern society and may end up in prison or in psychiatric units.
While they may lack the moral principles, social graces and cultural understanding of older souls, Infant souls are in a sense completely innocent, being without pretense or agenda.
Stage 2 — Baby Souls
In contrast to Infant souls, Baby souls think a great deal about the rights and wrongs of their actions. Their lives are about safety, security, structure and order — rigidly so. They like to live in communities that are highly principled and “civilized” (think of the Amish).
Baby souls come across to older souls as rather “square” – strictly conventional and conformist. Both their beliefs and their actions are largely rule-bound, so they are often ultra-conservative, traditionalist, orthodox, upright, moralistic, religiously devout, and mindful of law and order.
That said, they will occasionally give in to temptation, or temper tantrum, and break the rules themselves — but then might find themselves tortured with guilt and shame.
They are acutely aware of the rights and wrongs of people’s actions, including their own, though they have little insight into the motives behind them. Bad behaviour is sinful, and that’s that.
Stage 3 — Young Souls 
Young souls tend to be extravert, outward-bound, worldly, frenetically energetic, brash, competitive, political, ambitious and individualistic. Life at this stage is about thinking for oneself and asserting oneself as an individual.
Young souls are more ego-driven than others, keen to make their mark in the world. They are generally attracted to some form of worldly success — fame, fortune, power, glory. In fact, they are more fearful of death than souls at other stages, and those who aren’t sure about life after death may be anxious to make a big impact on the world stage, to create some kind of symbolic immortality for themselves.
Young souls cling to their own opinions, with a certainty that their own perspective is the right perspective, and their way ahead is by far the best way. They are very aware of their own agenda but do not really question it.
Stage 4 Mature souls 
Mature souls tend to be more reflective than younger souls, with a growing understanding of self, growing empathy for others, and a desire for authenticity in both. Life is less about proving oneself, and more about exploring “right relationship”.
Mature soul consciousness is no longer egocentric, in the sense of being limited to one’s own perspective and agenda, but is capable of accommodating multiple perspectives and different agendas. In fact, there is now a tension between “what I want” and “appreciating what you want,” or between the personal and the interpersonal.
This makes life much more complicated — sometimes overwhelmingly so. On the one hand, mature souls reject narrow-minded values. Yet on the other hand, they are able to empathise with whoever holds those same values. Fixed opinions are replaced by a sense of ever-shifting perspectives — “It all depends on how you look at it”.
This disappearance of solid ground can be hugely stressful, but it kicks off a search for deeper meaning and self-understanding, whether through art, psychology, philosophy or spirituality.
Mature souls tend to question everything, including their own motives, and are prone to do a lot of soul-searching (literally).
Stage 5 — Old Souls 
Old souls tend to exude some degree of depth, gravitas or wisdom that is quite obvious. In children, it can be most striking (think: old head on young shoulders) For having moved beyond the stresses and conflicts of the Mature soul, Old souls have a growing sense of inner peace and freedom — the freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it.
Compared to younger souls they are relatively calm, measured, untroubled and stable, unattached to social structures and cultural expectations, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others.
On the other hand, finding themselves in a world that is so conflicted, chaotic, frantic, and superficial can be utterly depressing.
For Old souls, the aim of life is to find true self-expression and fulfillment. As such, they tend to go their own unique way in life, letting go and letting be, in a detached way that may seem very weird and eccentric to younger souls.
Late-stage old souls find themselves consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is, and often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion.
Note: These descriptions emphasise the differences between stages. In reality, though, there is a gradual blend from one stage to the next. A person at the start of the Mature stage, for example, will act mostly like a Young soul but with elements of Mature soul nature beginning to emerge.
The lessons of each stage
Here are the five stages of soul evolution through human reincarnation, together with the typical learning experiences associated with each stage:
So we begin reincarnating as Infant souls, complete novices at physical existence. At this first stage we are largely in a state of incompetence and terror, frankly. But through experiences and choices we learn and grow. We steadily progress from being Infant souls to Baby souls to Young souls to Mature souls. Finally, we enter the fifth stage as accomplished Old souls, the experts of human existence.
As infant souls we learned about choices having to do with survival, as baby souls choices having to do with moral codes and ethics, as young souls choices having to do with mastery of achievement, as mature souls choices having to do with relationships, and as old souls choices having to do with the nature of oneness with the Tao. An infant soul would therefore not understand the choices of an old soul although an older soul would likely have more understanding of the nature of younger soul choice having had them.
Michael, via Victoria Marina
To look at each stage in more detail see:
Stage 1. The Infant Soul
Stage 2. The Baby Soul
Stage 3. The Young Soul
Stage 4. The Mature Soul
Stage 5. The Old Soul
Soul levels in the human population
The six or seven billion people on the planet span the whole range of stages, but the average is said to be somewhere just past the mid-point of stage 3 (see chart below). In other words, this world is currently dominated by Young souls whose primary focus is competitive self-advancement.
The seven steps within each stage
Within each stage there are seven discrete steps to go through. In the Michael teachings, they are called “levels”, so in each stage we proceed from 1st level to 7th level. Calling these “levels” can be a bit confusing (since Newton refers to the five major stages as “levels”), so I sometimes prefer to call them “steps”. So each stage of reincarnation has seven distinct learning steps. For example, we begin the whole journey at step 1 as Infant souls, learn that lesson, then undertake step 2 as Infant souls, and so on. On completing the 7th step of the Infant stage, we then begin the 1st step of the Baby stage.
The early steps in any stage are about experiencing life at this new stage of evolution, learning the essential lessons through appropriate experiences. The later steps are about expressing those lessons, demonstrating this level of consciousness in action. For example, in the Young soul stage, the first three steps — from 1st level Young soul to 3rd level Young soul — are about discovering the meaning of free will and self-determination; the last three steps — 5th level Young soul to 7th level Young soul — are about demonstrating the meaning of free will and self-determination in action. (The middle step — 4th level Young soul — is about consolidating the lessons learned.) The first step or level of any stage is like putting a toe in the water; the final step is like teaching others how to swim:
| 1st Level | Initiation into the new stage. “Toe in the water.” First glimpses of the new consciousness. We come to recognise that there is a whole new way of being ahead of us, and we respond to the call, even though as yet it is beyond our comprehension. |
| 2nd Level | Building foundations. Wading in and out. Comparing and contrasting the old and new consciousness. We come to understand what is essential and different about this higher level, though it still remains ‘ahead’ of us, not quite within us. |
| 3rd Level | Rising to the challenge. Taking the plunge. We determinedly commit ourselves to actively embrace and explore the new consciousness. |
| 4th Level | Integration. Relaxing into it, “enjoying the water.” We now identify ourselves with this way of understanding self, life and others – this is our truth. We fully incorporate and consolidate the new consciousness into our own being. |
| 5th Level | Expression. Splashing about – “Look at me!” We openly share and communicate our new, true sense of self and of life’s meaning. We feel drawn to broadcast our truth, to “go public” with it. |
| 6th Level | Demonstration. Giving value and benefit to others. “Being a life guard.” Our new consciousness is put to the test. We also burn off any outstanding karma incurred in the earlier steps of this stage. |
| 7th Level | Mastery. Peak performance. We have complete understanding and control of our awareness at this level. We know exactly what we are doing. We may feel like a role model. Hmm… What’s next? |
This sequence of seven steps is repeated through each stage, making 35 steps in all from the beginning of reincarnation to the end. In case you’re wondering, I’m at the 5th level of the Mature soul stage. My current life’s lesson is about outwardly expressing my Mature soul consciousness.
a d v e r t i s e m e n t
Many lives
So, we start our evolutionary journey at level 1 of stage I (as “1st Level Infant souls”) and end it at level 7 of stage 5 (as “7th Level Old souls”). There are 35 steps in all. And each single step requires at least one lifetime to complete. A single step can be done in one lifetime but often that’s too big a stretch, so an initial life may undertaken as a taster, followed by one or two more which really go for it. Sometimes a life is interrupted, and the soul will just have to start over in the next life. Also, some lives are undertaken for reasons other than the specific intent to develop. For example, one lifetime might be undertaken primarily to assist another soul in their development. And some lives are taken on primarily for the death experience, for karmic reasons. These can be very short, of the order of days, weeks or months. Taking into account all the gaps spent in the non-physical state between lives, a single step is typically accomplished in about 100-300 years of Earth time. The whole journey of 35 steps usually takes well over 100 lifetimes. Hence, the whole journey is likely to take of the order of 7,000-8,000 years, but possibly a lot more if the population is low and opportunities to incarnate are few.
Questions and Answers
Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why don’t we just give up and be done with it? Can’t I just decide that this is my last time?
You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the soul’s perspective). You wouldn’t rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, it’s more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly well that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. That’s what the game is all about.
Who says?
There’s no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to “graduate” and who doesn’t. It’s just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. There’s a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And we’ve all signed up for it.
But why? What’s it all about?
Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life.
How does it do that?
By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self.
And that’s why we are here?
We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realised beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.
More frequently asked questions
- What happens to our souls after our last reincarnation?
- How can I speed up / skip levels / stop reincarnating?
- How can I know my soul age level, etc?
More on Soul Evolution
Books
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The Michael Handbook by José Stevens and Simon Warwick-Smith [Amazon] |
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Sojourn: Karma, Reincarnation, and the Evolution of the Soul by Gina Lake [Amazon] |
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Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives by Michael Newton [Amazon] |
Why can’t I find your post to Chaya? Was her question in the archived place?
Chaya left hers back in March (oops … And I have some older than that)
Try this:
personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/reincarnation-the-35-steps/comment-page-9/#comment-194414
Hello Barry and Ken,
This is regarding a puzzle I was thinking for a long time to solve. It seems I found an answer. In the book by Dr. Eben Alexander’s (neurosurgeon, NDE) book,”Proof of Heaven”, there was a state of him like a primordial form, more like an earth worm,an experince which was quite unpleasant to him. It puzzled me a lot since what made that State to occur as most of the NDEs I knew about were pleasant and jovial.If his NDE experience were a sign of his matured soul level, then how could that happen?
The conclusion I came into are two. 1. NDE experience or mediumships or psychic abilities are not a sign of maturity of the soul. Soul of any level can have that lifetime provided its a learning experience to him/her, just like a chapter in an Encyclopedia; each one is special but different and forms an whole Book. Many Eastern Sages warned against acquiring extra-human powers with Yogic practice (not the western 30 min version of Yoga), without real spiritual progress, as useless and whimsical. ” Journey of Souls” also highlight that point.
2. In the book, “Autobiography of a yogi” by Paramahamsa Yoganda, his Guru Sri. Yukteswar Giri, tells him there are many astral spheres each for different levels of souls like mermaids,fairies, animals and also; for lower astral planes of gloom for fallen dark angels of other Worlds according to their karmic qualifications(chapter-43). Eben Alexander must have been at the vicinity of getting relived from that astral sphere to move to higher spheres covering earth like world experience. Thats why he got a mixture of 2 types of experiences he described in book. He says he was able to escape that world of gloom by thinking about the higher astral sphere, but after hundreds of tries it later got exhausted. It agrees with Y. Giri’s explanation that each lower astral forms get a glimpse of Higher Planes as a form of incentive to do better to move higher. So his NDE experience or his position in this life as a neurosurgeon doesn’t denote his soul level. Its just a character chose by his soul with the help of his Guide, to experience from the countless characters of the Play.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Joe,
My response would be this. I would not get too involved with the mind in trying to “figure out” these or other types of experiences. The Universe and the Cosmos is so vast it is virtually impossible (in this case imo) to ascribe any human opinion as to what it meant or was about.
I do agree that one does not have to be a more advanced soul to have mystical and unity experiences, especially as we are all expressions of a great singularity.
I have learned unless one directly experiences the “back story” of an event or situation, thoughts about it are pretty much not in one’s best interest. It becomes ” mind clutter” and basically speculation.
As far as Dr. Alexander goes, it appears to me from afar that what was important about his experience (if true and the preponderance of evidence is that it was), is that it was a Soul contract to be the right person in the right place at the right time to help expand the consciousness of humanity.
Beyond that, issues of his development to me are irrelevant.
I have learned through experience that things I read years ago that spurred me on the path look very different when going through them.
“The concept of enlightenment is different from enlightenment”.
That’s what I am discovering, all the time.
Thanks Ken for your kind reply. I understand your point. N Maharaj always say, desire to enlightenment itself is an impediment to achieve it. Trying to connect dots been a fav. past life for me, though I see that there are infinite number of dots.
Thanks.
You’re right. Desire for enlightenment brings the mind’s conceptions into it. I want….what. exactly? What is it anyway? It is something not in the field of knowing. Therefore surrendering to the present is enough. Whatever it is will take care of itself. In the end who or what is pulling the strings?
Hi Joe (and Ken!)
I’ve been quite ‘distracted’ for the last week or two, as you can probably imagine, so just catching up with a few things now.
Here’s what occurs to me as I read your original ‘puzzle’ regarding Eben Alexander’s NDE, Joe:
The work of Stan Grof, who made massive inroads into uncovering the transpersonal levels of the psyche, might be worth taking a look at. In his therapeutic work with LSD (originally in Eastern Europe in the 1950s/60s), he discovered that people would undergo a chemically-induced (but nevertheless valid) transformation. And the process would unfold in distinct stages. The first would be an opening up of the senses and perceptual systems — seeing more brightly and clearly; then seeing “hallucinations”, or rather shamanistic imagery: visual patterns and breathing walls for instance; and then a deeper experience of identification with life, nature, the subtle world; then going through any unresolved issues and traumas in one’s life so far; then going though a (real or symbolic) rebirth experience; which finally would open the doors to the higher consciousness of the soul & spirit (atman / brahman if you prefer).
So Alexander’s ‘worm’ experience probably fits in there as a transition between normal consciousness and expanded consciousness – the psychic identification with other living things. Exactly why he got that worm I have no idea — maybe there was simply a worm in the ground outside the building and his expanding consciousness alighted there for a while? Or maybe it held some deeper meaning for him. But I can imagine that “trying to escape a world of gloom”, rather than accepting and allowing and seeing if there were any insights to be gained from it, would be what held him in there for so long.
(I can’t remember the circumstances of his NDE off the top of my head — might psychoactive medication have been involved?)
I would certainly agree that there are psychically skilled and able people at all stages of evolution, from Infant to Old, so psychic ability as such is not a sign of evolution.
Many Young-soul mediums, for example, are obviously attracted to wealth and celebrity (TV’s Top Psychic, that kind of thing). They will “own” their abilities as a mark of personal merit or credit.
Baby souls with suppressed egos will be more likely to present themselves as blessed recipients, and are likely to come up with fear-inducing pronouncements (“Mother Mary says to change your ways or else it’ll be the end of the world for all you sinners.”)
cheers for now!
A fairly good interpretation. If this were a dream, “worm” is considered a lower form of life and holds negative connotations. “He’s such a worm”. “You little worm”. The basic issue is moving from a sense of being trapped in ‘lower states” to freedom. What reason there was for this is anyone’s guess. My understanding is Alexander was not particularly spiritual before the experience.
What was unusual and synchronistic about Alexander’s NDE is that he had a rare form of meningitis that shut down (I think) the cerebral cortex, the part of the brain where images come from. Scientifically there should have been no ability to “hallucinate” or have “dying brain cells” activate according to conventional materialist theory.
Couple the fact that he was a neurosurgeon and a brain specialist karmically made him the perfect candidate to refute prevailing skeptical theories about the validity of NDE’s.
Thanks Barry and Ken for your explanations.
I am inclined more towards Ken’s 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Dr. Alexander explains the same concept that his neo-coretex was all destroyed for him to hallucinate. (there is a new youtube video on his talk given at theosophical society).
And Jill Bolte Taylor ( Harvard Neuro-anatomist, stroke, TED talk) gives an idea on the same lines as brain makes us more human in nature and it gives us the idea of our “limit-ness”.
Dr. Alexander, I assume, was a tool/cause to deliver a higher profound idea for the insight seeking souls on Earth rather than being highly evolved by himself.
Little literature is available regarding the transitional stage from lower astral planes to higher( human) astral pane. May be people of these stages rarely go through past-life regressions or other similar spiritual experiences. Here I am more in agreement with Barry.
A few cases I found were: 1. Dr Eben Alexander 2:Dr. Jim B Tucker’s new book says a reincarnation story from an immediate past life as a snake 3. M Newton’s book gives a few glimpses of other Worlds 4. a couple of stories I got from internet search were; who remember living in Atlantis and seeing higher non-human beings, an Egyptian priest seeing Tehuti (on regression) etc.
So reading “Autobiography of a yogi” which details author’s conversation with Yuktesar Giri which happened in 1930s, about the different astral planes, gave myself more credence to the existence of these different planes.
Since I am fond of knowing small glimpses of the inner dynamics of these processes, I cherish these stories. And I understand, these queries mean nothing much in the long run as Ken pointed out earlier. But it satisfies my curiosity for now or I have to wait for end of this human incarnation to a state of whole knowing!
Thanks again.
Hey Joe,
If you want to expand your regression knowledge about other worlds even further I would suggest reading Dolores Cannon. She has an impressive body of work regarding advanced extraterrestrials and their influence on our planet from antiquity to present. You can also find some good channeling info from the Seth material (Jane Roberts) as well.
I had a dream once of myself standing next to “someone” ,an entity with no physical body solely a presence, and in front of me was a white screen such as one you would see in an old movie theater. pictures flash before me and the entity says “pick one.” I had no idea what this meant until, like a previous person on this site stated “a flood gate was opened and information poured in” i struggled with religion, afterlife, and the search for the “right” answer. I have now come to realize there is no “right” answer, just as there is no wrong one. There just IS. And this wasnt a dream it was my soul’s memory of every time it has ever picked a vessel to complete its goal. Im not quite sure what level I am.
Pretty advanced. Later stage mature. Two reasons. One the dream. Very cool and advanced Two. By law of attraction your presence here indicates mature since this site emanates mature soul and higher energy. Most people who come here are mature.
What a great experience – thanks for sharing.
Thanks mdeking78. I will definitely look into that books.
So some one told me I was a transcendant soul… How do I know for sure and what does it mean?
There is no way the mind can figure it out and if its true (which it probably is) you have no reference points to give it authentic meaning. Its nice but its cotton candy for the self.
If you do spiritual practice(s), keep on your path, contact or deepen connection to “God” (as you perceive it) or your guides and in time the meaning through experience will be very clear.
All it means is you ( If true) have already established a strong connection to “Source-Higher Self” before you came in (were born.)
You share this with many others.
If by transcendent soul your ‘someone’ meant what is meant here, i.e. the physical embodiment of an integrated entity from the Causal plane, a being with the innate wisdom of higher consciousness and intelligence, then you don’t need to ask.
I’m only 15 about to turn 16 in October and I basically fit the description of an old soul.. How is that so?
1) You might be one
2) The mind tries to configure things and isn’t always accurate.
I would like to know more about your life and how you perceive, experience the world to comment further.
I just don’t feel 15 or 16 or anything.. It’s weird. I feel older and act older but I don’t feel any age at all if that makes any sense to you. I also like to beat to my own drum and I only have 1 friend which I’m fine with cause I’m not crazy over having 20 or 10 friends though. I enjoy being in solitude with myself. I hate being the center of attention. I’m pretty much taking much more of a spiritual path and have gained so much knowledge and wisdom over this past year which I believe has brought my soul age up because before my personality and ways were pretty much different than as to who I am now. Which was only about a year ago and I like to talk about spirituality (Like Angels, Spirit guides, etc.) to my family and I also feel like I hold much more of a masculine energy than a feminine. Like in Michael’s teachings, he said basically a old soul incarnate’s into the gender they wouldn’t rather choose or something like that. I just go with the flow of life. And don’t care to have millions or really thousands of dollars. I’d just like to live somewhere rural and isolated or rather surrounded by nature like the forest and away from the city and work with animals because my passion is to do some kind of work with animals. I dunno what else there is to say exactly but yea.. That’s a bit about me.
Well you could be. The problem I have with all these designations and people wanting to know about where _they_ stand in all of this is kind of like a line from a Paul Simon song, Graceland. “Breakdowns come and breakdowns go but what are you gonna do about it?”
For me the value in the cosmology is not so much who or what I am, but how does this help me navigate, understand, and find forgiveness in the cultural and global landscape, because nobody is doing anything wrong. Baby souls, for example, have to be baby souls. How can one be angry at a 5 year old?
For you I can see some value in self definition. If you are an old soul, I doubt it is later stage. Although this brings mind speculation into this, late stage old souls, imo would not ask the question. It would be self evident. Shivabalayogoi Marharaj, for example, was meditating 23 hours a day at 12 years old.
I think you will know within about 3-5 years. The only help the definition will give you is to believe more in yourself and any direction you want to go in that does not conform to conventional norms.
Lots of young people are coming in very advanced.
But my advice to you is file this away as potentially useful information and *actualize* your connection to Source energy. *Deepen* your relationship to Guides, Masters, and Angels. *Connect* more with the depths of your soul. and *fulfill* the breadth and power of your destiny.
All of these things are real, authentic, grounded. They involve a *commitment* to your spiritual self. If you are an old soul, you soon will be quite aware of “process”, of awakening itself, and your place in it. You will see the unfolding takes care of itself. Attend to your inner garden.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for your reply, It made me smile. Also here’s another thing. How exactly do I know what level I am on? I mean I’m only 15 and I feel like an old soul and fit the description of one and I thought you keep going higher and higher while getting older till you hit your true soul age. And I’m not exactly asking if I’m an old soul.. It’s just the levels that are confusing me.
I think you are over thinking it. As I implied, even if someone could tell you exactly what level you were on, how would that serve you “here and now”? Whatever challenges, experiences, growth, people to meet, things to accomplish set forth in your soul plan (with free will) would still have to be *lived* and done by you. Step by step. There is a saying. “Information is not transformation”. Believe me, I know.
My advice. Live your life knowing that essentially you are a mature soul or higher, drawn to a mystical, beautiful, unfettered (free) life in this remarkable time and place of spiritual revolution. That as a young person you have come as an advanced soul to help the planet and grow and to be grateful for those who came before you (like Barry and myself and countless others) who laid the grid for you to enter. Be also grateful for your own blessed karma and advancement, no matter the specific *level*, that allows you to come in without a lot of painful baggage.
If you attend to “now” and the dynamic that moves within you, all your questions will be answered in time and this one imo is not particularly important. How you live, moving toward what draws you, inspires you, that’s what’s important.
P.S. The levels are like grades within a grade, that’s all. If you are a mature soul, you could be a “Young” mature soul (early levels) or a late stage mature soul (later numbers).
So, if you’re in high school are you 9th grade or 12th?
Metaphor
Infant souls- toddler- preschool
Baby Souls- K-5
Young Souls- Middle school
Mature Souls- High School
Old Souls College and Post Graduate
Each has divisions (levels) within larger structure
Masters like Buddha and Jesus- Graduated, came back to teach.
I am in 11th grade.
But my sister is in college and she is obviously a mature soul from what I’ve experienced living with her..
Kiara,
The example I used was a metaphor, a symbol just to use human reference points because you seemed unclear about the levels. As N points out it is “soul development” not body development.
So using the metaphor as example for human reference, as symbolic, if you are an old soul and your sister is mature, in body she is in college and you are in high school but in terms of *soul* maturity it would be the other way around.
*If* you are older in soul development, you would be a foundational level ahead of her, as college is to high school.
Kiara, your soul does not age with your physical body, it’s a separate entity that has a superset aging process. If your an old soul you will be on this level until your physical body passes away. This body is for your soul to learn a lesson that it needs to learn to achieve enlightenment. You may very we’ll be an old soul but it’s not aging inside of you it will stay this age as you physically age.
I know all that haha I’ve gained a lot of knowledge starting from the beginning of the year.. I became aware of a lot of things and how everyone really is. I believe everything happens for a reason.. And that everything is possible even though you may feel some things aren’t possible. I tend to get depressed easily for no apparent reason but I still get through it and would never ever consider giving up on life. I had before tried giving up on life back when I was in 7th grade because I was very depressed for no reason whatsoever. And I’m still dealing with depression on and off for no reason now but I still get through it and go through the day the best I can and let life take its course.
You could be feeling depression for many reasons. Being real sensitive, you can be picking up difficult energy from the world and those around you. You may need more of a spiritual support system. Ask Archangel Michael for protection and help and do a web search for the violet flame.
I want out…. where is the opt out button on this whole pile of shit…. lifetimes after lifetimes undergoing suffering both mental and physical just to supposedly learn something is really boring and if there were any real God he should allow you to choose Adios….. to many memories of Shit and watching the anger, angst, and pain suffered by both poor animals and humans who have no fucking Money turn me off….. Oh but wait go through another 20000000 or so lives and it will all be cool…. it’s cooler to just get the fuck out and turn off the bulb, like a light bulb in a dark room…. No you can’t do that, you’re stuck here whether you like it or not…. Tough shit and tough love for you boy…… you keep waiting those tables or scrubbing those fucking toilets you’ve only got a million more lifetimes to do before we cut you slack and move you up….. Fuck you , where is the annihilation button….. Kiss me off as one who just didn’t buy into your forever shit…..
Whatever. But before I go, here’s the truth. There is no out button and no off switch. And if you off yourself you will discover that when you die you’ve only piled up more karma. These are the rules.
Believe them or not. Its your choice. If nihilism is your bag, go for it.
What kind of trashy response is this to someone who’s clearly going through enough emotional turmoil that he/she exhibits what appear to be suicidal thoughts? Ken, you’re happy to preach about what advice to give to people, but in direct response to someone who is blatantly suffering, you come out with a heartless response like: ‘Whatever … If nihilism is your bag, go for it.’
That’s bullshit. If you’re an old enough soul to preach to others, then you should be an old enough soul to show compassion where it’s due. Or maybe you’re not as ‘advanced’ as you think you are. I have no idea what level I’m at, but I do know one thing. When a person’s suffering, we need to help them – not condemn them or react to them coldly. Furthermore, you’re in no position to say what are the rules and what aren’t. Whatever knowledge you think you have is only your perceived ‘knowledge’ – I don’t believe any of us can say, 100% hand on heart, that we know what’s going on, not until we die. I seriously cannot believe that someone who professes to know so much about this business can react in that way to a person who is clearly fed up with life, yet BLATANTLY has compassion for living creatures, i.e ” to many memories of Shit and watching the anger, angst, and pain suffered by both poor animals and humans who have no fucking Money turn me off.” Instead, you took his/her turmoil as a direct attack against you – clearly you’re unable to read between the lines.
My advice to you? Get over yourself.
I’m going to have to be direct. We get some people here who often are contentious, hostile and confrontational. Through experience we have learned not to engage. I am sorry if I misjudged your post but I did not see or feel from it reaching out, openness or desire to see how your pain might be addressed by the principles and philosophy set out on this site. Again I am sorry if you felt deserted or demeaned but here are some of your words
“lifetimes after lifetimes undergoing suffering both mental and physical **just to supposedly learn something is really boring** & and if there were any real God he should allow you to choose Adios”
“Oh but wait go through another 20000000 or so lives and it will all be cool”
Especially ending with ” Fuck you , where is the annihilation button…..*** Kiss me off as one who just didn’t buy into your forever shit…..”**
How am I or Barry or anyone supposed to respond? I am not a spiritual “la, la” person. Life has taught me to be grounded and “here”. We’ve already been, as I said, through several “fights” here with people who clearly were not interested in meaningful dialogue. So I will speak for myself and say I get wary.
We’ve had several discussions with those who feel as you do but there was a phrasing in the way they presented that said basically “what should I do about these feelings” or “why shouldn’t I give in”.
Barry wrote a very good, long post to someone who felt as you do. I can’t find it so I am going to ask him to repost it in the reply to your first post.
If you want to engage, I am willing. I am not willing to get in long arguments about whether this philosophy is credible and I am not here to be a punching bag for someone’s pain.
Once more, I am sorry you felt offended and dismissed. I invite you to look at how you presented your predicament and see if that created room for someone to dialogue with you.
Ending with “Kiss me off as one who just didn’t buy into your forever shit” does not feel like someone who is very open.
To answer your issues. I would scroll through many of the older posts.
The bottom line is you do have choice in what would be called the “near tern”. Suicide is always an option for a person and there is no angry God to punish you for it. But there are consequences and usually you come back to deal with it again. The Universe is an understanding and forgiving place.
The essence of this “forever shit” (as you termed it) is that this is a Universe of contrast and that dark has a profound place in the order of things. The Soul has primacy and often here with “boots on the ground” the idea that from a higher place we *chose* this experience feels both counter intuitive and crazy. It seems to defy human thinking. In actuality it is NOT human-materialist thinking but multidimensional awareness.
From 45 years of experience I have seen (for me and many others have come to the same conclusion) that this is how it works. This is what’s behind the curtain and this is how the Universe becomes a just place.
I have been through what you feel. I had a terrible breakdown at 30 that cost me 15 years of my life (acute phase and basic recovery), has influenced the entirety of it, and I did try to kill myself it got so bad. This last year has been particularly difficult, much more than I would have consciously “chosen”, but having internalized all this and being intuitive, I understand the necessity, even genius behind the predicament in forcing me to deal with long avoided issues. I can’t run from my core belief system and experience of its validity.
So I find the philosophy valuable in giving me strength to understand the purpose behind things and that I am not a victim. And yes, sometimes I feel the way you do, deeply frustrated and angry.
There are no immediate words I can give that will “make it better” I believe we create these conditions from a higher level not only to “learn” but to “experience”. I would recommend Journey of Souls by Michael Newton which is a classic in this field, to get an “overview” perspective on how and why this is how human life here is set up.
Again, I would invite you in the future if are asking for help or perspective, to phrase it in a manner that does not offend or initially push people away. even if that perspective seems alien.
For now this is the best I can do. The site is full of ways to look at all of this, especially in the older comments section.
The bottom line is that we don’t remember our decision for sometimes what seems like a mess but my experience is the Universe is a very precise and loving place, and it all fits, even or especially when it gets very painful.
This is a starting point. If it is offensive to you as bull shit, then there is nothing more I can say. I hope Barry posts his reply soon. It will help with perspective.
…
Also I’ve had this dream or something when I was about 7 where I couldn’t move my body upon waking up and it felt like my eyes were super glued shut but then I finally opened them and the whole room was a really white bright light and I saw my family and some really close friends wearing all white walking into a even brighter room.. And then just a few months ago I had woke up and found that I was way closer to the ceiling than normal and I couldn’t move or anything.. But I had somehow got to see that my body was laying on the bed underneath me and I was floating horizontal and all I wanted to do was to just go through the ceiling get to heaven.. That’s what my mind was focused on.. Going through the ceiling to get to heaven and then all of a sudden I popped into this dream or something where there wide open spaces and really green soft looking grass everywhere for acres and acres and wide open clear blue skies and everything looked more vibrant in color then there was this small rock house with some green grass on it and then there was this tiny round grumpy rock thing that didn’t like me talking to it or being by it but all I kept doing was laughing and smiling and was just happy and then I woke up. And I always have lucid dreams and I’m conscious in dreams. And just a few days ago I had a dream of my grandma who had passed away in the beginning of the year and in my dream she looked younger and healthier than when she was on earth. She also looked calm and at peace. And there was this little boy with brown hair who came out this door with her and she was supposedly watching him or something. But I never got to see his face.. But everyone in the dream was joyful. And in the dream I heard this man saying I had only 3 things to do and that I had already done 5 things but I could have left instantly but I dunno where I would go but I didn’t wanna leave because I had more things to do. And there was a bunch of these people who I never really seen before and they all took a picture together.. There was about what looked like 30 people all together to take a picture like it was a family reunion. I have vivid dreams which I love cause I love to talk about them to my family.
Well I’m a dream specialist so if you ever want we could go over these but they’re pretty clear.
So these are advanced intuitive-psychic gifts you are displaying. The out of body is a form of Astral travel. It seems to me like you went to heaven (other side) in the dream. Vivid family visitations and lucid dreaming are cool. And you got info on your soul purpose from a guide apparently.
Dreams have been very important for me. My Guru started appearing in them after I was initiated and I would wake up in ecstatic bliss from the power of his presence. I think as you get older the dreams will deepen as its possible this is one important way your guides will communicate. I think other visionary experiences will start intensifying.
Don’t be afraid. This is how you are wired, especially if you are an old soul. I would start connecting more to Source (God) and guides and angels, mostly by asking them to deepen your connection and direct you to people and situations that will help you develop and feel safe.
I think you have important work to do in the world and that’s why you have not left.
I actually want to connect with my angels and guides but how do I protect myself from bringing in anything I don’t want? Also I have very vivid daydreams like I’m sleeping but I’m not.. Like I’m aware I’m still laying down in bed or something and my mind just wanders deep into a dream like state. And I also used to have images and faces randomly pop up into my mind.. The last kind of image that popped in my mind was a bunch of different hands piled on top of each other.. Like because we are all one. And also during one of my intense vivid daydreams I had heard this static like noise in my head with a twinkling noise with it and I hear 2 people talking but it was faint and the static was drowning out what they were saying. And after that happened it seemed as though I could just turn the static noise off and on as much as I like. Not anymore though.
Also I have these fluttering/tapping kind of noises like someone is tapping in my eardrum. And also a sensation in my ear like it’s drowning out all the sound in one ear then goes back to normal. Never really got an answer as to what that was.
Can’t say for sure but sometimes deceased loved ones try to get our attention in that way.
So it looks like you’re a possible “super intuitive”. I really recommend reading “Journey of Souls” and read through this entire web site and perhaps the Michael book. You need to expand now your knowledge base as the energy is going to intensify and you need a container in your mind for what’s going on.
If you understand Soul Planning, you know there is nothing to fear as you are protected. But I already told you to ask Archangel Michael for protection, especially when tapping in. I do this before each intuitive session. Also I told you to google the Violet Flame. It clears unwanted energy. If your intention is to connect with the highest vibrations for the highest good nothing you don’t want will get in. I’m sure there’s already a protective cone around you 24/7.
I don’t believe its your karma to get distracted with lower astral energies.
Your Soul knows what’s going on and you preplanned much of this. Like running across a web site like this and people like me, Barry and N. There are no accidents. Its your time to move up.
Yes I do know a lot about the soul’s planning and I will research about the violet flame and look into getting that book. Thanks a lot. I’ve been wanting to get all of that off my chest. Thanks again. 🙂
i have one question what happens after your soul has ran its course’s effortlessly does the consciousness just start over . OR does our consciousness just stay old . thats what is really getting me here . I am a man that wishes to believe in the afterlife of the conscious of the after. But since were conscious beings do we have a say in what we do or we go where we need to be . I just want to know that they’re is a continuation of being here . that i get to see my loved ones again that i get to keep living forever and ever happily an loving and just being in complete unison with the universe. Because the person that makes me happy i never want to go a day without her she is my stars and the very thing that drives me as a being. Well if anyone can answer me that would be awsome. I am open minded to anything except for narrowminded athiest because lets face it . Just because you can put it on a scale or run it in a lab or simply do not have the acquire tools to judge doesn’t mean you can write it off as something that mind has cooked up on its own turf. Thats something i wont except because that great saying goes “evidence of absence is not Absence without evidence” but please will a older soul put me on the path so i can believe again not in religious form but in a form that will skip the angels and the unicorns. Something that we can all come to a agreement with.
I will let Barry offer his thoughts because he phrases things very well on this. But among what we call progressive “New Thought” people there is a consensus. This includes NDE (Near Death Experiences), the results of afterlife hynotherapists, the gifts of psychic mediums, the mystical experiences of thousands of people including great Masters and the spontaneous utterances of children.
All point to a survival of consciousness in an expanded form. There is a “You” that still has a sense of “You”. But it may be different than our human limited vision. My sense is the Soul has immense freedom to present or experience itself in many ways once free of the body. But it is still “Itself”.
But it also realizes as it expands that it is one with All That Is. That its true nature is limitless. The Universe is Love itself expressing itself so all those things you yearn for and more are part of the package. Decision making comes from the deepest recesses of the self from a place of extraordinary wisdom so there is no fear as to what path a soul takes.
Because Earth life has so much pain, it is hard for us to conceive that the true nature of existence is Bliss itself, extended in a variety of ways. You already are immortal. You have just forgotten your eternal self. Part of this life process is “reunification” for those who are ready.
You can never be separated from your dearest loved ones for the reality is you are aspects of each other and a larger whole. Evolution in my understanding beyond this realm moves, as here, in its own pace. No one outside of us is controlling anyone because there is no “outside”.
It is hard to conceptualize things that are beyond the “human-linear” framework, but it is all set up for the fulfillment of the deepest love. You don’t disappear. You expand. Is the baby afraid to become an adult? No, it just grows naturally. I think something similar happens when we end the Earth cycle. There are greater levels of joy and being to explore and merge with.
Barry mentions some souls like this “game” of this drama of separation that they enter into it more than once. But we must understand that if that choice is made, it comes from a place inside us we cannot conceive it is so high. If we are infinite itself, then any go around here is a blip on the screen, a ‘trip to the amusement park for a day”, to use a metaphor.
So there is no need to worry. Your fulfillment from my understanding is beyond your wildest dreams.
Both Journey of Souls but more particularly the sequel, Destiny of Souls, by Michael Newton, go into the technology of the other side and its interface with here quite deeply. There are other accounts. I would read both books to get a deeper sense of answers to your questions.
thank you . i find reincarnation interesting an i just want to say thank you a million times over. I’ve been having dreams that i’ve been out of body and then when i realise it i jolt back into my body an i was wondering does this mean im going to die soon because i do this everynight. Im so scared and i just wanted to know for sure their is a continuation because i have so much love to give in this life an i dont want a day to go bye where i can not deliver happiness and joy to this world.
No, it does not mean you are going to die soon. If you read some of the posts above with Kiara, you will see she has some of the same experiences. What you are probably doing is ‘traveling” or floating in your astral body. The astral body is connected to the 4th dimension which is a lower (not bad) spirit dimension. It is the vehicle we use, when time is right, to go to the “other side” (called Heaven). It connects to the body with a virtual silver cord that can go almost anywhere. People actually travel around Earth and to places in the Universe with it and will come back to their physical body quite quickly, almost instantaneously like you do.
So actually it is a fairly common occurrence. In addition imo opinion it is a good sign because you are displaying some psychic or spiritual gift as not everyone has the experience. You just have to get more used tom it. You can ask God or your guides to let you integrate it more and expand it gently if you desire or to help you be more comfortable with it.
It usually can be a doorway to higher knowledge.
P.S. I read somewhere that most people don’t realize that when they dream, they are doing so floating in their Astral body 3 feet above the physical body. The substance of the dream world is Astral and is ruled by the subconscious. You are just more aware than most. The 5th dimension is the true beginning of the higher realms where vibrations of peace, love, harmony are permanent. Great art and music comes from these and higher through connection by the artist.
Great spiritual teachers go higher still.
Hi Ken,
Thanks for holding the fort while I’m busy. Meanwhile here is a link you might like
http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/plxQtper4HK2xouBOOxVlK/Excerpt–Death-And-Dying.html
I like this sentence.
“n the academic world today there is a general bias that favours a form of naive neuro-fundamentalism: it is automatically assumed that the brain can explain everything about human performance”
Ken, are you aware of Arvin da Braga:
http://dreampoetica.com/about/
I have a Facilitating Agreement with him, which we are currently playing out.
What is a “facilitating agreement?”
Sorry, it’s Michael jargon for a pre-birth plan to hook up at some point with one helping the other. We stumbled into each other online about 3 weeks ago, and both immediately recognised an intuitive sense that we have an agreement in which I am to play a facilitating role in his life right now, specifically to get his faltering career on track.
Every night our bodies go into a state of paralysis while we dream. Sometimes we do leave our bodies. It’s quite normal! But sometimes we can get out of sync – waking up and finding your body paralysed is freaking scary. But it soon returns to normal functioning!
thank you i find it awsome that you guys approach everything see when i go to church i feel like its more of a social gathering not really a worship. i always struggled with religion. i just love the idea of reincarnation i love it so much. i thank you Ken and Barry so very much im going to name a kid after you . i might right a song about reincarnation an how studying and meditation can bring you they’re thank you guys. i jst have one question why is religion so hard to understand an why do people act irrational and kill each other over the whole “my gods better then your god” i think people miss the big picture. i really do like it keep posting more reading material an ill try to wrap my brain around it . Would it be a bother to keep commenting on this because if i am being a annoyance ill simply disappear.
To me the great value of this theme on this site is perspective. From the human point of view, yes, its irrational. However from the view of soul evolution, one can gain understanding, then the potential for compassion, then forgiveness.
Most of the conflict in the world happens because of younger souls who are in stages where tribalism, rules, black and white and or egoistic needs are primary. Thus everyone is where they need to be. IMO, a central part of human life for the soul is to experience limitation and its consequences. Part of this is the consequence of separation, violence and abuse. As the soul grows, it leaves these things behind because it tires of the shadow play and seeks more authentic love, light and expansion. Religions, nations, tribes, etc are vehicles for souls, individually and collectively to work these things out.
We are blessed to be in a period when a great number of individuals are moving out of the first three stages and into more unity consciousness. We all share some still of the darkness of the depths. In the end we are all one. I am wrestling right now with some of my core stuff and I am noticing that the acceleration of energy is pushing deep stuff to the surface for everyone.
We can’t see the big picture but actually things are better than they have been. Although religion in the Middle East still holds great sway and fundamentalism here is a problem, the West has let go of religion as the great authority. This site is proof of it. Remember 200-500 years ago we would be put to death for these conversations, which virtually for nearly everyone would have been unknown and unfathomable.
In its own way, its tremendous progress.
“why is religion so hard to understand ?”
Maybe this will make it easier:
Religion is a social institution in which the exemplary lives and teachings of highly evolved souls (such as Jesus, Krishna, etc) are re-interpreted by and re-written for the less evolved population.
Teachings will be interpreted by Baby Souls as simple dos and dont’s.
Teachings will be interpreted by Young Souls as the best way to please God and so earn your place in heaven.
Teachings will be interpreted by Mature Souls as ethical principles for achieving ‘right relationship’ with self and others.
Teachings will be interpreted by Old Souls as recipes for self-transcendence and creating a heaven on Earth.
“why do people act irrational and kill each other over the whole “my gods better then your god” i think people miss the big picture.”
Wherever people are at, their perception is limited (otherwise they wouldn’t be ‘people’). There is always a bigger picture to be seen, just above wherever one is now.
People kill each other because, within the limitations of their current perceptions, they feel unable to tolerate the existence of alternative perceptions. The more we evolve, the broader our perception, and the less we kill each other.
“Would it be a bother to keep commenting on this because if i am being a annoyance ill simply disappear.”
No need to disappear at all – keep it coming – this is why we are here. Each of us has at some point felt the fear of being utterly alone in our existence; paradoxically, that very fear is what brings us together.
Barry
I am a mature soul, somewhere in the middle steps where I try my best to understand where other people are coming from, but where I also have a savage resentment for the young soul world I live in.
I am an escapist with frequent thoughts of suicide, except that I know there is really no END button, only RESTART. I am often crippled with fear of the future, fear of hurt people hurting me and of the whole cycle.
I am also struggling with myself, feeling like I have such a far way to go and THIS life is largely unpleasant. People say you CHOOSE where you are, as if I can snap my finger and my life will make a 180 from unpleasant to pleasant. I just feel like its just a way of blaming and shaming people into feeling incompetent, inadequate… “Try harder” etc.
Nonetheless, I have been trying to find ways to change myself, my perspectives, losing resistant… being positive, happy etc.. only just to fucking make the pain stop. Make it go away. And does if ever leave? Look at the world…
My personality all this time has been a shield to minimize pair. I am so very afraid.
My only question is what do you suggest I do to going forward?
Aerys,
If you read a lot of posts here, you will see you are not alone. My own history includes an horrific breakdown mentally when I was 30 and an incredible fight back to sanity and productivity.
I am not going to BS you. I don’t know how old you are, but based on your post, you will have a lot of work to do. The good news is twofold.
1) The Universe is deeply supportive, just not easy. My suspicion is you created these circumstances in part precisely to force yourself to get far more deeply into your Divinity as a solution.
2) The process is not A-Z, depression to joy. It is step by step. As one has success with steps, confidence grows and it gets easier. Occasionally we run into big challenges but this usually is to make us dig deeper.
The first thing you must do imo is connect in some way experientially with your higher self, however you perceive it. This can be “God”, “Source”:, Angelic or Spirit Guides. We all have them. We all have the connection. The biggest issue is we have to ASK for help. But asking needs to take a specific form. Not “solve this problem” but “help me learn to connect with you so I find the strength and wisdom to solve this problem”. Asking has to be authentic and with openness as to how guidance will come.
Second, I would avoid isolation and look for supportive, healthy spiritual groups or meetups in your area. Especially if there is some form of good group meditation. Even a progressive church can be helpful (but stay away from the dogma).
I would read “Ask and it is Given” by Abraham Hicks which is a great explanation for the Law of Attraction and look for the “emotional scale”. They are clear one does not go from A-Z in A New York Minute. There are steps. Despair is at the bottom. The first big bridge is hope. One must feel hope before one can believe or feel joy. If you have a little money I would invest in their CD of the month club.
Last. No one is above professional help, if necessary. Recently I went back to therapy with a spiritual psychologist because there were issues that weren’t moving.
There is hope, You are surrounded by support. The main issue is you haven’t opened up the pipeline enough yet. That is your main task. Be patient. Things will unfold if you don’t let negativity overwhelm you.
Take care. Good luck. (There really is no luck but I said it anyway.)
Hi!
I’ve recently came across your website and I’ve kept up with it for some time now. I’m really glad you guys decided to make this because it’s helped me out tremendously. But I’ve noticed no one has asked you anything about spirit orbs and such…
About a year ago we moved into a rental home to be closer to my family. Well turns out the place was built over an ancient Cherokee indian burial ground. It was awful… We couldn’t sleep something was constantly shaking the bed, moving stuff, etc. We finally moved out and I bought a new house and things calmed down.
This is when my kundalini experience started. I don’t know if the reason it got started was because the ghosts scared the snot out of me or if it was the actual realization that there really is life after death. Who knows, and I’ve always been spiritual don’t get me wrong. I guess actually seeing it for myself threw me into it, made it more real, I don’t know. It started with me vibrating with so much energy. It’d actually light up my bedroom at night. I thought I was being haunted again.
It’d like come in stages… Started with the vibrating energy, muscle spasms, then I could go outside and it looked like a plasma screen tv, then I could look at the trees and see faces in the trees or anything I looked at there would be a face looking back. Sometimes scary or cartoonish even.
I thought I was nuts… I actually called mediums and asked many people over the internet about such things and no one could tell me anything… then I found out I was going thru kundalini… All of this has happened slowly over the past year.
It’s agonizing and depressing sometimes going thru it alone, but I’m getting to the point of peace I hope… I can see energies now like crazy all over the place. It really is a beautiful way to look at the world and honestly I could sit and stare at the clouds all day and it’s really hard for me not to, but I’ve got kids that need me so I have to pull myself back down to earth.
But with all that aside I’ve realized that I’m here to learn and there is this one thing that keeps driving me crazy… I’ll be having a pretty normal day and all of a sudden my mood will change and I’ll start thinking crazy sad stuff for no apparent reason… This would go on for a couple days til I finally figured out to make myself feel positive and it’d go away. So one night I was laying in bed feeling horrible and sad again to the point of crying not knowing why so I thought to myself… This is totally not my thoughts… and out of my back shot this dark blue orb… It lit up my whole wall as it was leaving. It was a beautiful blue very large and bright orb. Where it was attached from my back burned for a long time.
This has happened several times now. One of my kids even saw it out of the corner of his eye and said, “what was that”. I just said I have no clue… LoL.
But my question is this finally, What are your theories on orbs having to do with soul evolution? Do you think it could possibly be trying to help me along or hinder me? I’ve got many thoughts on it and I think that’s what drives me nuts over it, because I think on it way too much. I know there are guides and things here to help as well, but I don’t get why it wants to make me feel sad.
Sorry my story was so long but I felt like I should give you a little history. This is not even half of everything that has happened, but I really thank you guys for taking the time to read and answer our questions. I look forward to seeing your thoughts.
Thanks again!
Hi Bridgett
I am blown away by the number of people (myself included) who are reporting kundalini-type phenomena right now. Here you can read of my experiences if you haven’t already:
1. My initiation
2. Living with kundalini
3. All shall be well
I have experienced expanded sensory awareness – when kundalini is erupting like a volcano, I can hear people in neighbouring houses – their conversations, their footsteps, clothes rustling, kettles boiling, etc, all as if they are in the same room as me.
The blue orbs thing is new to me, so I can’t give you much insight. However, I dd a Google search just using KUNDALINI ORBS and there seems to be load of stuff already on the Web that may be worth a look.
You are clearly becoming more sensitive at a higher level – probably your 3rd eye chakra opening. (Perceiving blue light is often mentioned in relation to this.) As you become more open to subtle energies and higher consciousness, you may be picking up on vibes from other beings around you. I remember, for example, the first time I entered a seance. This was during my student days – just a dull Sunday evening with nothing better to do. Not expecting anything (being quite skeptical at the time), as soon as I touched the upturned glass I was immediately overwhelmed with a sadness that wasn’t mine, and cried uncontrollably for about an hour. (Totally freaked out the other students!) Despite my skeptical mind, I cold sense that I had been “entered” or “connected with” by a deceased person, a female, lost in her own world of sadness. Whether her contact with me helped her in any way I have no idea.
So it’s possible you are now able to tune into other beings, and have them tune into you. I believe it is possible to learn how to manage this skilfully – you have to take control of your inner “mixing desk” like a record producer, as it were. There are some great psychics who can advise on this, but be wary of the various charlatans and nut-jobs who don’t really know what they’re talking about.
One person who really knows her stuff, and offers mentoring, is Gina Lake – http://radicalhappiness.com/
Some recommended starting points:
I recently came across a site/group called “Spiritual Reality”. I watched their DVD and found it excellent (see YouTube link below). Their website includes information about 3rd eye activation:
http://www.spiritual-reality.com/thirdeye.html
The video:
http://youtu.be/XRMn4UhReN4
“Spiritual Reality: The Ultimate Guide to Meditation is an enlightening movie on meditation and meditative experiences. In this movie Spiritual truths have been dealt with in a profound manner and given a uniquely stunning visual form by using outstanding computer graphics. ‘Spiritual Reality’ is based on two decades of extensive research and real life experiences of Spiritual Masters. Each one of us is in search of good health, peace, knowledge, prosperity, harmony and overall, a happy and blissful life at all given times and situations. By watching the movie, one can learn to meditate, understand Spiritual science and derive the best out of life. The movie explains in detail basic Spiritual concepts like – how to do meditation, what happens during meditation, cosmic energy and also higher science like etheric body, third eye, astral travel, birth, death and Nirvana.”
Also worth a look:
http://www.lifeforcebooks.com/
http://www.spiritual-awakening.net/2014/08/account-of-real-kundalini-experience.html
http://mykundalinistory.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/easing-off-the-kundalini-syndromes-my-experience/
Bridgett,
i wanted to wait until Barry replied to respond. I think he gave an excellent answer. In spiritual literature there are many accounts such as yours of early Kundalini experiences. Like yours, in the beginning they tend to be raw, volatile at times, and feeling uncontrollable. Usually over time people start to learn to modulate and balance /deal with the phenomenon. The “inner mixing room” as Barry put it. Gifts and abilities like this aren’t given if they are not meant to be ultimately useful.
I know little about orbs except that lots of my friends have pictures of them. My suspicion is they are representations of how consciousness appears in a “light body” or non human form to human eyes. The fact that a set of difficult emotions was associated with a blue orb that had attached itself to you lends credence to this point of view.
I think in the beginning or along this path all kinds of stuff goes on. Most of it is benign. We have contracted for our lives and have endowed ourselves with protection and guidance so that things are not accidental. That experience taught you something about the interconnectedness of things.
From what you described, you are a pretty advanced soul. Barry has offered a lot of concrete directions to go in. I would just add to ask your guides to allow them to come closer and to form a deeper connection with you so you feel in some or many ways their presence and the manner in which guidance from them is offered. Look for intuitive development classes in your area.
I would not be surprised if soon you are able to “talk” and get direct messages from them. One way to do this is keep a journal, focus on “plugging in” and seeing what comes to you and write it down. You can orient around specific questions. The more you do this, the better and easier it gets.
I wouldn’t obsess over orbs too much. They’re part of this landscape. Some people feel led to explore them a lot. I never have. Barry apparently hasn’t either and it has not been that big of a deal. We are all unique so each gets directed toward what fits. Orbs might become a thing for you or not. Follow what your inner heart tells you. That is what is most important. It feels to me like a form of stablization and clarity is most up for you at this time.
Thank you both so much for your wonderful answers! I’ll start researching everything you guys suggested. Sorry it has taken so long to write back. I am 31 and a single mother of 4. So it’s always crazy around here. I do manage to do a little research everyday and I’ve also started reading more esoteric philosophy. It’s also very strange because it is so different from what I’ve ever read about spirituality, but I understand it all. All of this really is amazing. Lol… My kids used to think I’d gone mad when all of this started because I’d run around the house totally smoking it up with sage because I’d read it is supposed to help with hauntings. I still like using the sage occasionally because it helps with my visualizing negativity leaving me. I’m still working on visualizing tho… For whatever reason it is totally a challenge for me. I’ve always been a daydreamer too. Anyways, I am pretty sure I figured out the whole blue orb thing. You see in February of last year my husband committed suicide. I had found out the day he killed himself that he’d raped my then 11 year old daughter. I thought life was wonderful. He was a gorgeous man, had wonderful manners, went to work everyday, played with the kids every evening… He never talked of his childhood much and when he did it was depressing. His mother basically sent him everywhere growing up. He ended up living his teenage life with his grandmother and we were in high school together. A few years after that and we were married. I got pregnant with my daughter when I was a senior in high school by a different guy. So when John and I were married he ended up adopting my daughter and from what I thought treated her like she was his. Well I was wrong…. So that day my daughter told me what he had been doing when he was supposed to have been teaching her how to kayak. So I confronted him and instead of facing the consequences he shot himself. Soooo…. Felt I needed to let you know all that. But I’d read that if people cut their lives short that they have to figure out someway to help guide the ones they were in contract with to making the right choices… Or it could’ve been in the contract that he was supposed to do all this and commit suicide. I don’t know but I figured maybe it was him. But I was meditating one day on how to deal with life… I was having one of those depressing moments and it took about 10 minutes of stillness and this deep voice booms out “You must forgive yourself first.” I totally screamed was not expecting that. I’ve not been able to get to that point in meditating again tho. lol Since then I do think that I’ve forgiven myself for not seeing what was happening right under my eyes. My daughter is doing fine now by the way. She is having a normal life as a 13 year old should despite what happened. Of course when something doesn’t go her way she acts a little more hostile than most her age and that’s hard to deal with sometimes. But the whole reincarnation has helped me deal with this experience better too. Because I’ve also read that when we are old souls the burdens of life are much heavier than when we first started. So maybe I am nearing the end… I am controlling my thoughts better and trying to remain positive during everything. Which is very difficult… Lol I had actually started keeping a journal and writing when the weird feelings would start and why I thought I was feeling that way. It has helped me to gain a little more control as far as the way I act and think when I’m feeling that way. Also there is a place called Delphi university that is close to me. You can look it up online. I have went by and spoke with them several times about what was going on with me. They helped some but you have to pay for their classes and it takes all day everyday for a week or two. So that’s impossible for me to do right now with all my kids. Maybe one day though… Sorry to ramble on and on. But I felt I needed to elaborate… I’ll continue to do my research and I really appreciate you guys helping me out. I felt really alone for a long time… and it is so nice to know that I’m not crazy and there are others that are evolving too and that you’ve started a site where we can help each other along!!! I wish you all well and thank you all so much!
Suicides can be a contract but more often are failed choice points within a contract, a kind of cosmic “incomplete”. The molestation and consequences most likely were by agreement. How he handled it was up to him. But its hard to know for sure.
Usually Souls that pass on are not responsible to rectify abuses. More often they are involved enough to help out and provide support and guidance but it is not a primary duty. When they cross over they rehabilitate and extend loving energy but it is mostly up to us to clean up the mess. We have an army of guides to help.
Thanks for that. Since all this has started I’ve read so much about all of this from different sources. So I have maybe 500 theories… Lol I keep telling myself, “Eh I’ll know when I’m on the other side.” But it’s so hard waiting sometimes. It seems like the truth is right within my grasp, but as soon as I reach to grab it they pull it away just a little bit further… I believe they find humor in torturing us so… That’s like with everything that I have found out it has been laid out like a puzzle. Takes forever seems like to find that missing piece. Also, I don’t know if anyone else has dealt with this but I’ll put it out there. I’ll get messages in the clouds… at first it started with faces, which I was seeing faces everywhere at the time… But after the faces was when the huge energy surges began. I of course had no clue as to what was going on til I finally found it on the internet about kundalini. Thank goodness for that or I’d probably have had myself committed. But unlike Barry’s experience, mine would make me so tired. Even tho I was buzzing w energy all over… And in a way when it started I guess it was like a snake straightened out on my back… But it was violent with me… It literally started with a wham… I had a huge blister on my tailbone and immediately clumps of hair on my head started falling out… tmi I know… but I read about this one guy whose kundalini had started and he had so much energy flow through him at once that all of the hair on the crown of his head burnt off. Lol I hate to laugh but it’s funny to look back knowing what I know now. Because it was completely terrifying. I figured I’d share that little bit incase anyone else is going thru that as well. Anyways back to the clouds, the energy was getting the best of me. The house had became trashed, I felt like I wasn’t being a good mother, I’d totally cry all day over nothing really, I was so tired that I didn’t feel like moving. So that night after going thru this for several days I walked outside to look at the stars. It was a full moon as well. I was totally scared too because of what was going on… I looked at the moon and a cloud was drifting across and it changed to a rabbit. My friend was over as well so they saw it too. I had to ask because this was about the time I thought I was crazy too. So I looked up the meaning of a rabbit. And it said that if I was like a rabbit that I was calling my fears to me. Because when a rabbit is scared it screams out and calls its predators to it. As soon as I read that my anxiety left. Immediately after the rabbit, they showed me an elephant with its trunk up in the clouds… I’m telling you perfect images like a picture in a book or something. So I looked up an elephant with its trunk up. And it said the elephant has to do with kundalini… And it basically said that I needed to ground myself. So that is how I found out I was going thru Kundalini and how to calm myself down. Messages in the clouds… Pretty amazing… So I figured out how to ground myself and life has been almost normal… It’ll never go back to the way it was before this and I most definitely wouldn’t want it to. Because now I’m learning to enjoy this life and I’m extremely thankful for this experience and for the help from my angels in the clouds. Without them I’d prob still be sitting here basically drooling in the bed… Now I’ll see symbols of all kinds when I have a problem going on. I don’t go outside expecting to see anything but something will direct my attention to the clouds. A bird or bug or something. But the symbols are way more difficult to figure out… It’s kind of frustrating so at the time I’ve given up trying to decipher the meanings of those. Anyways, there’s sooo much more and I could talk about it all the time. And it’s so amazing how much I learn everyday. Oh and also I have also been visited by a causal entity… could’ve been the Michael one. I’m not sure. The only reason I saw it was because my dog was watching something invisible go back and forth. So I snapped a pic with my phone and it was a huge blob with faces all in it. One face stood out the most which was a beautiful lady with such a beautiful smile. Of course I didn’t know what it was until I just read Barry’s blog about Michael and I was just reminded of it. I didn’t make any contact with it because I’m not to that point yet. But I do think it wanted me to know it was there. Maybe they do the choosing who gets to receive this gift. I’m so Thankful I was. Thanks again guys!!!
My advice to you is begin to let go of trying to decipher external signals and start asking to directly communicate with your guides.You will have to find some quiet time to do this. As your intuitive ability increases clarity will also increase. You also can ask them to slow the messages down and keep it simpler and more direct, as you did in the previous grounding. No need to be so tired over all of this or overwhelmed. This learning to balance seems to be one of your big life lessons.
The suicide info is pretty consistent across most Mediums from what I’ve gathered.
Do you think that we possibly make decisions in daily life that could lead us off our contracts? Besides suicide of course.
Yes. My understanding is the “contract” is an intention, a kind of blueprint made up of probabilities. Some are so great (body, intelligence, parents, spouses, etc) that they are almost impossible to move. But within this blueprint is free will and choice, opportunities to confront with deal with and choose experiences that either fulfill the intention or bypass some of it. This is where we challenge ourselves to expand and grow. However some lives are like vacations where we get an easy one.
Its kind of all over the map as to how much people complete but I think most are where they should be. Its rare to completely blow the gig and have to do it again. Its rare to “outperform it.” Most are in the middle. Par for the course.
My guess is you’re pretty much on time. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here. Congrats.
Lol I hope so… and thank you! I’ll leave you guys alone now and take your advice of working on my balancing. Thanks for all the help!
Hi Bridgett. Have you heard of the Blue Pearl? I read once that when the kundalini has arisen, the meditator will see a blue person or something. It is said to be your Higher Soul. Not very clear on the other details though.
There’s no reply button to Almira. The blue pearl to my underrstanding was promoted by Swami Muktananda who founded Siddha Yoga in the 70’s.
“Seekers who are steadfast in their practice of meditation and who have deep faith in inner self-will would eventually be able to delve deep into the subtle realms of consciousness. Here, they begin to perceive the scintillating Blue Pearl, the ultimate goal of spiritual sadhana”
Muktananda was the on;y teacher I know of that spoke of this in such a way. Perhaps there is truth to it but I am wary for the following reason. Consciousness is infinite. Therefore it is beyond the mind. Whatever lies in higher states is in the unknown.. To try and classify a “samadhi” (deep higher states) as “this’ Or “that” puts one in the realm of conceptions. of expectations.
Is the “blue pearl” a reference to a deep state of bliss? Perhaps. Is bliss attained other ways? Here is Yogananda’s greatest state. No blue pearl.
http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap14.php
Muktananda classified what you should experience at various stages of meditation. I find this suspicious for the reasons I’ve already mentioned.
However, I saw a Kandinsky painting at a huge exhibit once, and one painting in his later life was of only a radiant blue pearl like circle.
I would not constrict the goal in meditation to any phenomena. If it happens, fine. Let the Higher Self do the work.
Sorry ken – it was the link in your comment that sent it to the “pending” queue.
No Almira I haven’t. I’ll look into that. Thanks!
So pleased I went searching for this and have spent most of today reading through and digesting with avid head nodding moments…I wonder how we know if we are not deluding ourselves on where we are on our Soul Development journey? I seem to be at 33 and have tried double checking other numbers via stages and levels but this feels right..my spiritual mentors have both told me that I am highly ascended and are shocked by how quickly with their guidance it has become clear but I am even more shocked at my soul development findings on the chart …can we kid ourselves we are higher than that which we are?…in spite of my need for my humility check I am overwhelmed by how simple and sense making these blogs are and cannot wait to digest and learn more…I am developing my market niche as “The Love Coach” and cant wait to understand more to be able to include it all in my work and for the teaching of those that choose me to serve them..HUMBLY GRATEFUL FOR THE LEARNING SO FAR THANK YOU XX p.s. if you could point me anywhere at looking at Soul Contracts I have an avid appetite for that subject right now…maybe I will come across it here as I read on??
One thing that comes up over and over on these boards is a sort of obsession with “Where am I”? I think the value lies in the overall understanding and a kind of ball park knowing of where you’re at. Other than that it can become mind candy to think to hard on *exactly* which stage or sub stage I’m at.
If your intuition and what you are doing in life matches a particular stage, then that’s probably pretty close. But in the end, you are “here-now” and “wherever you go, there you are”.
I am doing intuitive coaching also. So you’re probably at least at 5th or 6th stage mature but you could be an old soul.Humility has nothing to do with it if you are sincere. But if your ego gets involved “Look at me I’m a _____ soul, whatever”, then watch out.
More and more books on Soul Contracts coming out.
Journey and Destiny of Souls-Michael Newton
Life Between Life- Joel Whitton
Memories of the Afterlife- Newton and students
Your Soul’s Plan- Robert Schwartz
Your Soul’s Gift- Schwartz
Search Amazon for subject, there probably are more at this stage. I haven’t read them.Search the web, there will be lots of articles.
God Hunting
What happens when we finish?
Barry will comment well on this but the understanding is twofold. There are apparently two major stages beyond the physical of “actualization” of thew individuated self. These stages lead to an expansion we cannot imagine in our present state. Or, it has been suggested, some souls wish to do the whole thing all over again. Apparently this desire would come from a place of understanding far beyond where we are at now.
We are eternal, immortal beings whose true nature is that we are fully one with (same as) the All, by whatever name you give it. The truth of being is everything and everyone is God, disguising itself for the experience of separation, a grand self illusion.
“”Children of Immortal Bliss , what a sweet, what a hopeful name. Allow me to call you, brethren, by that sweet name, heirs of immortal bliss. The Hindu refuses to call you sinners. You are the children of God, holy and perfect beings. Sinners? It is a sin to call a person so. It is a standing libel on human nature. Come up, O lions, and shake off the delusion that you are sheep. You are souls immortal, spirits free, blessed and eternal.” –Swami Vivekananda
“Thou Art That”- Core mantra of Hinduism.
Thanks Ken…I hear you on the Ego side ..I am just coming to the understanding of so much all at once that I needed to just double check my thought process and you have confirmed that it is indeed the Ego asking that question lol…does it really matter..no because it will be what it will be regardless of my stage/level..I think in a way knowing that the life I have led has order and sense beyond that which I feel is soo comforting allowing one to exhale and let go of the need to make sense in this realm..Thanks also for the book suggestions TJ ..p.s. love the intuitive coaching reference really sums up something I have been trying to explain
Keep in mind you are guided by teams from the other side and you have contracted for all this so you are in good hands and most likely are where you are supposed to be. Let it flow and let the Divine in you unfold as it will, using your intuition to guide you each step of the way. Each step creates more wisdom and strength for the next. The process-journey-unfoldment keeps getting clearer as you go.
Amazing topic I found while searching about death in about 3 mnths ago, my reasons were to see ideas about life, it really looks boring and pointless and God forsaken place, none the less if I end believing this newly found life after death I can say current problem solved. I am still confused however, of the stages I see I dont see any I can idenify to, neither I see the level you speak of, but certainly not in the majority either, baby soul seems to fit for me but except I am a person of my own, “if it works for me so be it, I don’t care what the rest say” kind of a person. But I can’t precisely spot myself anywhere there, also I don’t understand what lessons are to learn on earth, if its relationship its all about hurting or get hurt and move on, marry and devorce, in these days its about getting married to get devorced mostly, careers, all about getting richer and make others suffer for it, families? In our black communities parents raise us to become their banks later on nothing more, religion all about getting punished for sins which end up being unfair, I don’t understand how can I get hurt and not retaliate, which is hard for some reason doing what you are told is bad is rather fearful, we end up retreating to darker corners hoping no one comes any closer to inflict more wounds, If you say we all sign up for that, I find it rather foolish, there indeed individuals who live life that is meaningless totaly, I have a sister who can’t keep a job, gets drunk and be broke the next day after payday, has two kids that will end up in adoption I can’t have kids not even my own just not willing, but what is she learning? You can clearly see in her she has no regrets at all? Why is pain so important since it serves no purpose and isn’t relevant in heaven as it doesn’t exist there?
Also how come so much room for confusion is left on earth? I am in science religion, its much better yet unrealiable itself, atleast it acknowledges its flaws and seeks truth, then there are these two prominent religions that hate one another they go simple if you not in them then God is your enemy, the most hated one of the two is realy most unfair and yet it too relys on scrolls filled with mythology, yet religions seem rather closer to the truth than science, but the problem is, they are not realiable at all, its all about someone’s idea that will never be challenged, yes that’s religion, how are we supposed to know the purpose of life for sure in this God forsaken place? There is too much deception on earth even from the priests themselves, some are scams to make us pay and make them rich, isn’t slow progress in heaven rather better than fast progress, afterall we are immortals, eternity is longer still? Lastly why forget past life? How does guessing what to do is of any better? I doubt the part where we choose to come on earth, I doubt I’d be here, otherwise heaven there is too alcohol and I am an alcoholic there.. Just saying no one chooses to suffer, we are not Jesus people come-on
(:
You are asking a zillion questions, most of which humans have asked for centuries. The issue of suffering according to legend was at the core of the Buddha’s search for answers to these questions, so comfort yourself you are in good company.
First, you are not a baby soul. A baby soul would not end up here without immediately having a fixed opinion and starting a fight. But for now, is it so important you know exactly which “stage” you are in? Would that calm your heart and sooth your soul?
My suggestion is two fold because I stipulate there are answers to your questions and an emerging inner technology (of which this site and information is an example) but you are asking of information what books and systems and thought and experience have been devoted to.
So if you really want answers, you are at the beginning of a most important journey, one that could dramatically alter your life. However it is not something you must “believe in” because some else says it but rather a way in which, if it speaks to you, your inner being feels the truth of it and you start to possibly “enter into it” as an experience and not an intellectual construct.
So as a start I would suggest reading the entire comment section here, from the newest to the archived oldest. Take your time.You can skim them to read in more detail the posts that interest you because many of the questions you ask have been addressed, some rather fully, in many earlier posts.
I would also suggest perhaps further reading of the Michael material and three books, Journey of Souls by Michael Newton, Your Soul’s Plan by Robert Schwartz, and Conversations With God by Neale Donald Walsch.. ((look for all on Amazon). I would start with Journey of Souls.
Short version. The Soul, one with Spirit is inviolable. This Universe arose from an infinite source as an experiment in contrast, form and separation. Things are not as they appear and there is a back story of reason and love for everything, EVERYTHING. We just can’t see it. Once we see it, it makes sense. All of it. Yet we must go though the human or created experience because that is the point. Heaven (other side) is already heaven. Earth and this Universe was created to have a different kind of experience. When you are infinite and eternal, the “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune” are small speed bumps in the grand evolution of consciousness in this realm. There are two great themes . “Go out and investigate every angle and inch of possibility of this magnificent idea of contrast and form, dark and light, then slowly reawaken to the immortal truth of your being as light and love while still in a body” All that is experienced deeply serves All That Is, which in truth is what we are, We have allowed ourselves to forget. Otherwise the drama loses its meaning.
Good luck.
Special thanks for your reply.
Hi Jinsem
Ken has put it beautifully. (Again. Cheers mate!) Yes, the questions you ask and the skepticism/cynicism you voice are all over this website, especially in the early comments on this page (back as far as 2009). And with a post-Xmas hangover this morning I’m not inclined to repeat myself for the hundredth time. However, you remind me that I really ought to get my embryonic FAQ section up and running, so thanks for that!
I will just add a few points:
1. Soul age/level: from the way you express yourself, I’d say you are demonstrating the perceptions and choices of a Young (or stage 3) soul. I could be totally wrong, though, especially as I don’t now your chronicle age.
2. Suffering: Yes, there is none whatsoever in ‘Heaven’, which is our natural home of blissful light before and after each life. So why the hell (no pun intended) would we come here? Believe it or not, that is precisely why we come here. We have courageously chosen to dive into this realm of physical matter, inhabiting these animal bodies with their complex needs and fears, in order to gradually bring ourselves forth as the beings of divine perfection we are — DESPITE our physical condition.
It’s like we’ve all signed up for a massive multi-player game in virtual reality. One of the conditions of signing up is that we become fully identified with the game character – your present body and personality – plus all the ignorance, pain, violence and other dark stuff that goes with being inside the game. As we become identified with our human character, we inevitably forget our soul origin (well, most of us do — some of the more advanced among us seem able to recall their past lives with ease).
The object of the game is, first, to fully experience life as a separate being in your own right within this realm where there appears to be little or no love, truth, bliss, harmony etc; and, second, to start discovering those same qualities – love, truth, bliss, harmony, etc – within yourself and others. We become the light in the dark. We evolve over many lives from our original state of blissful innocence to the human state of painful self-awareness and then ultimately to a state of blissful wisdom and higher consciuousness. Were it not for the harsh lessons of reincarnation, we would remain as beings of light in blissful innocence, which is nice but our (collective) spirit is itching to experience more, to know itself with as much consciousness as possible. Each of us is part of God, if you will, trying to realise that that is exactly what it is.
3. Meaningless life: Not a single life is in any way meaningless, at least from our souls’ perspective. Meaninglessness is a human perception that comes from missing the bigger picture. And yet experiencing meaninglessness is a great spur for us to evolve — to actually seek our OWN meaning, REAL meaning on our own terms, as opposed to whatever meaning is being doled out to us in church sermons or science textbooks or whatever. Those who are living seemingly meaningless lives are living utterly meaningful lives; in many cases, the task they have set themselves is to experience apparent meaninglessness as a stimulus to seek true meaning.
4. Your sister. Souls do not evolve through the human experience overnight. A whole lifetime of difficulty, or several in a row, can be set up as a long-term learning exercise. Eventually we CHOOSE to live lives that are easier, but in order to make that choice we have to know the options from direct experience. In our earlier lives, picking fights is an attractive option, no matter how it affects our well being. In later lives, we may prefer to choose harmonious relationships. But telling a feisty young soul to choose harmonious relationships over “being right” and “winning” is like telling a lion to become a vegetarian.
5. Confusion. Again, confusion exists on Earth precisely as a stimulus to seek clarity, insight and understanding. No one stays confused forever. It’s just a state we pass through as we learn to grow our own awareness – I cycle through confusion and clarity many times on a daily basis.
6. Science/religion. Both are organised attempts to answer the question “What is true?” (and in the case of religion “How are we supposed to live?”).
– Philosophy asks the same questions, but tries to get answers through rational thought and debate, which many philosophers now realise is a closed system (How do you prove that rational argument leads to “truth”, without relying on rational argument as proof?).
– Science limits itself to seeking truth in that which is physically tangible. Yet science also has never arrived at “the truth”, only factual observations and some theories to explain them.
– Religion doesn’t actively seek truth; it purports to have it already in the form of ancient writings.
All are sincere and valid in their own way, but limited. The REAL search for Truth is an internal, individual journey.
7. “We are not Jesus”. You’d be surprised at how many souls choose to live a life with alcoholism as a path to find their own truth, or self-love, or compassion for their loved ones.
cheers
barry
I would just add one thing to Barry’s post. Its not all “hell and chaos” down here with no relief. My understanding is that since ALL aspects of this realm wish to be explored, happiness and contentment within form is also a big part of the “game” Although not our true identity, there are many who choose fulfilling lives, long, wonderful marriages, great and creative careers, the loveliness of nature in an indigenous or rural area, the explosive joy of adventure, etc.
In Journey of Souls Newton talks of “time out” lives or “rest period” lives as well where everything is “hunky dory”. Often good karma yields in human terms an exceptionally rewarding life.
We come here to experience it all, the good, bad, and, and the ugly. Like a vast combination restaurant-school-amusement park it has it all.
I understand very deeply the anguish of suffering , the potential bitterness, and the deep question “why?” An eternal question is “How could a loving God permit such suffering and evil in the world?”
But as Barry has pointed out, suffering is perhaps one of the most important aspects of this Universe. Not only is there actually a *desire* on the soul’s part, perverse as it may seem, to experience the dark side of life (If you are immortal, the “tunnel of horrors” is a great ride. You are IN the horror movie) but moreover suffering is the engine that drives us forward in our evolution to grow and eventually reunite with our true nature. From this perspective, it is one of the most compassionate, loving things ever given.
I speak here from deep personal experience as emotionally this one has been a very rough ride. And this last year has been one of the toughest in the last 25.
But it has spurred me to deal with things long held hidden. The potential for much greater joy awaits but that is up to me.All the tools I need have been given.
In Journey of Souls difficult lives are called “accelerated lives”. We choose them in order to speed up. One accelerated life can accomplish what it might take 4 or 5 regular mildly irritating lives to do the same. And if you’re not in a body, thousands of years might be the payment and some things can never get done.
From the human perspective, this all seems counter intuitive. We must remember from the Soul-Spirit perspective, the value of things and what is needed are quite different. Its hard to believe but everyone here is so by specific choice. The Cosmos is an extremely benevolent place.
When we die, we usually say “my, that was interesting”. As i (and Barry) said, the soul, united with the true self, can not be harmed.
“This, too, shall pass”.
Thank you for this article. This made me realize I’m an old soul on the 7th level. What’s also interesting is that I have already met my Twin Flame (I’m 19; I met him when I was 14), and something tells me this is our last reincarnation. He keeps showing up every time I let go (and even when I think I’ve clearly learned all the possible lessons from our experiences together), so there’s definitely something more than just “another person passing through” 😉
Given your young (physical) age, I’m curious to know what made you realise you’re 7th level Old…
Me too.
Hi! One question. If i am living my 64th life right now, then which kind of soul would i be, young, mature, old?
Thank you:)
We would need far more information to even take a flyer.
A very rough approximation… Say each level takes 3-4 lives on average, by the 64th life one would have done about 16-21 levels, = a mid/late Young soul (give or take several levels).
Hi Barry & Ken
I would like to say how much this website has helped me. Of all the many things I have read over the years, this is the only one where the jigsaws pieces fit. Thank you for helping people.
There is still one thing that puzzles me. I am very perceptive and can ‘sense’ things.I think the word is Clairsentient. There have been a few occaisions (rarely, thankfully), where I can sense something evil & dark, either a place or spirit. I am sure there are evil spirits or malevolent forces about. If I sense something dodgy I wave my crucifix & it goes. I sense it retreating. How do you explain this?
Wishing you both health & happiness.
My guess: the fact that you can sense nonphysical beings leaves you open to those of a lesser evolved nature who think it’s fun to scare the crap out of the living. Waving a crucifix is probably not affecting them so much as it is indirectly giving you a degree of resistance to those characters. I would work on specifically tuning yourself only to those of a more positive nature and making yourself unavailable to the rest – in effect, get psychically streetwise.
Just piggyback on Barry. There are discarnate entities ( we call them ghosts) who have not crossed over for various reasons. Sometimes they carry unresolved negativity from a life, sometimes, yes they are still attracted to the Earth plane and like to mess around. If something bad has happened in a place, the vibration can linger for a long time in the “ether”.
I agree it is not the crucifix that does the job but the power of your intention and soul energy.
We have free will. Nothing can harm us unless we let it. I agree with Barry as you grow in this life you will see less of it or be less alarmed. You might end up clearing houses and people and sending these to the light.
If you are Christian, one way to hasten or advance your development is through prayer. Just ask God or Jesus or Holy Spirit to “expand your territory” (Prayer of Jabez-look it up- a best selling Christan book) in these matters.
God (your Higher Self) will help facilitate whatever you need.
You sound like you are in a good spiritual space. Congratulations.
Hi again you two!
Thank you both for your quick replies.
On one occasion, I stayed in a haunted house.Even my other half who is not perceptive picked up on things. I imagined a strong beam of light in the darkness and urged whatever it was to go towards it. I managed to help it because the atmosphere lifted and I sensed it no more. However, same thing occured elsewhere and it did not want to go & was territorial about the place.I sensed it did not like strangers staying in ‘its’ house.
I do pray every night especially Archangel Michael,who I feel special attachment to.
Although mainstream Christianity does not accept reincarnation,I know I have lived many lives before this one.
Wishing you peace and contentment.
‘Tis the season to be jolly … For some reason this particular page has gone ballistic in the last few hours with thousands of views today. Seems to be a lot of links from Facebook. Greetings one and all!
Hello
Thanks for the wonderful comments. I always remain skeptic regarding the classification of stages based on personality traits. Based on Barry’s recent estimate like 6 lives for one stage; means with just 210-250 (6×35) lives, a baby soul reaches old soul’s final stage. I always think its almost impossible to predict the maturity level with accuracy, based on personality trait assumptions. The given example of Mother Theresa can well be in baby level rather than given old soul category. It all depends on the particular soul’s life learning purpose. Only exception to the rule IMO, is in cases of true sages (not the catholic church’s ‘saints’). They always belong to stage VI or up as rightly explained in ‘journey of souls’.
There is a case in “Journey of souls” where a stage V soul began early earth incarnations over 100,000 years ago. And in “autobiography of a yogi”, Sri Yuketswar says it takes a few thousand physical lives to get free from ‘samsara’. So even if it takes account of other lives in many other physical dimensions as well, Barry’s 210 estimate is too low, so to speak. Only sages with transcendental knowledge can detect soul level or by past life regressions,only if guides so permit. (I have seen it revealed by eastern astrological horoscope reading. But its so rare and the reader should have exceptional spiritual insights). So to say if you visit this site then the soul level is above so and so, is so mundane and naive, IMO.
Thanks.
Joe
In the end one must follow one’s intuition and not what so and so says. I revere Shri Yukteshvar but in the end what does it matter? I disagree strongly with his interpretation as recounted by Yogananda of Adam and Eve in Autobiography of a Yogi. This does not change my appreciation of his stature. I happen to agree with you that development is varied and individual. How long it takes? I don’t know. I personally would not guess from the question given and my suspicion is it takes more than those few lives to reach that stage but I don’t know. Also there are galactic servants whose time here is limited and they are not even in the karmic cycle. So what do we really know and how does it impact us here and now for our growth?
What I get from this site are three things. As in Journey of Souls the theory (as in science) of soul development is laid out beautifully here. It compliments Newton and others and adds information I have never seen from ancient sources. This I call the emerging “technology of consciousness” and is a positive gift of the Western mind.
Second, I can personally feel the truth of the overlay no matter the specific “time frame”. I can see by my life that “mature soul” seems to fit me. I personally accept the Law of Attraction (which is not dealt with in depth by conventional religions) and therefore feel those attracted to this level of advancement which carries a certain high frequency must in some way correspond to it. Christian fundamentalists, for example (as baby souls) aren’t usually drawn here.
Third, the overlay gives a beautiful ability to navigate the landscape, to release the victim-perpetrator cycle, and to not take certain actions and events in life and the culture personally.
In addition, the site opens up dialogue and has helped many people clear confusion in their lives about broader spiritual matters. We all have the right to accept or not thoughts, beliefs, experiences and wisdom from others. This current is extremely active and fertile in our times, particularly in America. Much of this works for those here. For some it doesn’t. Each to their own.
Thus for me what Barry has constructed is a beautiful service and is in alignment with Spirit’s desire. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin is less interesting to me.
P.S. Although I don’t agree with all the soul examples in the text, we must remember that it is highly regarded channeled material. Therefore it does come from “higher self-guides”, just not in a body. Most of the examples seem pretty right on to me.
We have not reached agreement on how this works in one sense. I still have no clear answer. Newton, Schwartz (Your Soul’s Gift) and Aquarian Gospel insist once a human always a human”. Hindu Yogis and Buddhism insist “up the latter” from primitive forms to human at pinnacle. I have not personally found the truth for myself yet.
Michael also doesn’t address primitive (maybe he does, I haven’t seen it) human experience (millions of years old) and how that impacts the modern human.
But again in the end, here we are. Wherever we “came from” is the past. What are we going to do about it now?
Hello Kenstories1,
Thanks for the reply. 1. Regarding Sri Yukteswar and Adam and eve story. I also found it a bit out off the beat. I presume that may be a reason why eastern philosophy give much importance to a guru with transcendental knowledge. Their explanations may not sometimes fit to our liking or knowledge because of our sheer ignorance or lack of spiritual attainment. Somewhere I read, the disciple should lie at guru’s door-step like a dog to get his grace. Nisargadatta Maharaj says same idea. Maharaj just trusted his guru when his guru said to him, he is not what he thinks himself to be. I checked again, Sri Yukteswar says a few thousand human births to attain freedom from reincarnation(Chapter 30, law of miracles).
2. Between Channeled material and counsel from Sages, I always give more credence to words of Sages with transcendental knowledge who practice detachment from the world like neem karoli baba or Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. Channeled materials are always depended on different variables like maturity of the soul. In the M. Newton materials we can see the quality of information changes, even on whats given by guides, with different soul types and even between different guides. Most difficult material to get a grasp,IMO, are related to predetermination vs. free will, and number of life time needed. So I go with Sages here.
3. Around me, I know 4 people who are on their very last physical incarnation, now. They are very normal people with no characteristics of the old soul type (all are in medical profession). One of them is born as a guide (who has all features of the old soul type) and other three just volunteered to be with him with no karmic bondage to work on; as its a normal practice among soul group members. So its all depends on the goal of the particular soul on that specific lifetime.
Thanks.
Joe,
Thanks for your input. I do agree the two major Eastern traditions (Hinduism, Buddhism) emphasize many, many lives. I too had a great Guru personally and his teachings were in line with what you say. I think my position is what can one experience first hand that will illuminate any particular issue and kind of “anchor it” or make it practical in the life experience? One thing I learned is Guru exists in outer form to help realized truth within.
My own Guru taught that in the end, as one venerates the outer form of the teacher, one of the most important issues is to reach the authority of the inner teacher. It is outer Guru’s job to facilitate that connection.
My Guru said, and this always stuck wit me, “If the Lotus born Bramha appears before you and says something illogical, reject it like a straw. And if a child utters truth, take it in with reverence.”
I agree if a teacher has great wisdom, one should carefully inspect what they say. A truth may not be readily apparent. I can say, “this does not resonate for me now.”
A good example is the creation story of A Course In Miracles , “The Origin of Separation”. ACIM imo carries Guru frequency in text form. But this account does not resonate for me. Is it metaphorical? I don’t know. Taking it literally I believe it to be a corruption due, as you say, to what the channels could contain.
Nisargadatta and Neem Karoli Baba are very cool.
Take care.
I disagree with the bell-curve quantification of souls. Given the population boom of late, the majority of people would have to be of infant souls….unless you are inferring that there are people with no soul at all.
Unless you were asked to come back, souls that have transcended… Light workers, are coming back in mass to help heal this world.
This “population boom” wasnt a world wide phenomena, the baby boom was an american thing, where as the entirety of this graph represents a world wide plane. I’m not saying there’s any one way to determine at which step an entire generation is through their soul journey, but simply being born in the same time frame would imply all other babies born in 1994 have the same skill and mindset as me, not to mention we are in the same part of our soul journey which just isn’t right. If there’s a way to determine NOT how to graph and classify the advancement of souls, it would be by generalizing a start point for which certain people need to fall into the category of “blank” old soul young soul etc. Just my thoughts
Well I think you’re pretty correct. I don’t think generational or chronological age has anything to do with soul development. To me the best assessment is the eye test. Just look around. Some things are just patently clear. Plus we must be careful not to be seduced by media. We may collectively be more advanced than we think.
There have been many “baby booms” – post-WWII USA, post-WWII France, post-abortion-ban Romania, current AIDS-hit Africa. But these are trivial compared to the global population explosion of the last two centuries:
https://personalityspirituality.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/population-since-1ad.png
“…simply being born in the same time frame would imply all other babies born in 1994 have the same skill and mindset as me…”
– not so
“…not to mention we are in the same part of our soul journey…”
– Again, not so
IMO: While the world’s population is rising exponentially, we might wonder where all these “new” souls are coming from. From a spiritual perspective, however, they aren’t new at all. It’s just the same old population of souls (including you and me) spending more time down here “on the stage” and less time “behind the scenes” (on the astral plane between lives).
Why? Because — regardless of our soul age — we are particularly eager to get back into this age of technological change, political upheaval, social revolution, and other kinds of positive (and negative) shift.
cheers
Hi Barry, Thank you so much for this mass amount of knowledge. I am beyond grateful for finding this blog. You often speak of being ill. Have you ever tried incorporating MMS into your daily lifestyle? Please research Jim Humble. I am new to all of this and just recently became awakened in the last 3-5 yrs or so. My spirit/soul has been leading me to this knowledge and I continue to attract more. I have been seeing the number 728 on a daily basis, which is also my birthday. I constantly see this # throughout the day everywhere And started seeing it about 4 yrs ago maybe later. It used to frighten me as I didn’t understand it at the time. I see it On license plates, constantly on the clock, on my cell phone, on tv etc, etc. Would you happen to know the meaning of my seeing it everywhere and wht is the meaning of 728? Thanks!
If it’s your birthday, then maybe it’s just a “hello” signal from someone you know who has died, someone who would know your birthday and is trying to reassure you that all is well with them / you.
Hi I was reading the comments from the article that was posted. This one caught my eye! I would like to help you with the meaning of 728! I hope this helps you a bit!
Here’s some info that I have found in regards to the frequency of 728hz…
“Ed Skilling designed a unit to output 728 Hz which is the Rife frequency considered to be the most healing. This frequency is carried on a radio frequency wave to transport it to the body. This works in the same way a radio transmitter carries the signal for a particular radio station so it can be received by a radio in any given area. As with Lakhovsky’s work, the cells can then pick up their resonant healthy frequency. The immune system can then gradually strengthen.
Reported Diseases Affected by 727 -728 hz”
http://altered-states.net/barry/newsletter420/
Very relaxing music infused with 728hz enjoy! 😉
The exact same thing happens to me. 210- my bday. 🙂
Wow, I don’t know what to think. I have a million one questions. Once you reach the end of the journey(How ever many years it takes that person) and one has learned all their lessons. Would that be Nirvana? And what stage would you consider yourself to be experiencing ? What type of Soul do you consider yourself to be? Is it possible to know what Stage you’re in?
Would the ultimate goal be Nirvana?
A lot of your questions have been dealt with recently. Why don’t you scroll down and read the posts and see if you need more opinions.
I have read and continue to read the responses regarding this post, and no where have I actually seen anyone mention Nirvana. However I am new to all of this and just recently became awakened. And I often have to read the responses as well as the article more than once to get a good grasp on what is actually transpiring. So I ask again would the ultimate goal be Nirvana? I am so intrigued with what I have read on this blog and stayed up until 5:00am reading this blog upon my finding it last night. I have been asking for a lot of answers regarding my life and my son’s life and I am beyond grateful for finding this website. I am also beyond grateful for any responses that I may receive.
I don’t have much time right now so I will answer the best I can. All traditions gave words, concepts for what we would call “enlightenment”. “Nirvana” is a symbol, a word that Buddhism uses to describe a transcendental state of union with the Absolute. Usually the connotation is one of permanence. In Hinduism the term is “Moksha”. Western religions have no such terms because they do not conceptualize the possibility of complete union with God.
The issue here (and in advanced spiritual cultures) is that one ALREADY is one with the Absolute because it is the fabric of who we are. The wave cannot not be the Ocean.
However, the game, the journey is a grand forgetting, then remembering through a progression of incarnations in which the deepening, enriching and expanding of the Soul in its awakening is at the heart of the journey through the vast diversity of experience in form.
So NIrvana is a term for a transcendent state. One with the depth of Bliss of Being. However, at this point, I also feel it is pretty useless to try and use the mind to attempt to understand these things. Because the mind is so limited and these states are so far beyond our capacity to comprehend.
So I could say Yes and at the same time, where is the utility in that answer? One has to be here and now where one is at in this journey, perhaps understanding that one can never not be who one is in reality. But to reunite with it is a very big deal and its kind of fruitless ruminating on it.
There is kind of a fascination with the idea early on but gradually it kind of withers because it has little to do with life as it is. However in my experience, this does not mean that its all or nothing. As you expand and grow, the uniting process is at work, first rather invisibly and hard to grasp, and over time it gets quite apparent. And the experience, for me at least, has been far different that any conceptions or thoughts I had years ago as to what it might be like.
I now experience the nature of Divine presence as more real, exciting, fresh, and completely out of any box I had, and way beyond whatever ideas I thought about years ago. Because its just not whatever I thought it would be. There is an aliveness to the experience the mind cannot dream of and really can’t be explained. And it keeps increasing.
So I let whatever “end game” be whatever it will be. Its not “my’ responsibility.And my mind, even at this point, could not fathom it. I just attend to now as much as possible. Grace continues to flow, ever stronger. When I’m connected it blows my mind. I never envisioned this, the reality of it. Because it was way beyond my mind’s capacity, and _different_. “Enlightenment is different than the conception of Enlightenment”. I was told that years ago by a Master teacher. He was right.
Hope that helps.
Wow, I am constantly left in Awe. Thanks
You continually refer to “the mind” as being incapable of understanding the spiritual or non-material realm. I have lately come to realize that this is not because the mind is inferior or “limited”, but because the mind must either find or place limits in order to think (reason) at all. That is why it is just as impossible to prove that the soul exists, as to prove that it does not exist.
I’m not sure I ever said the mind is “inferior”. Nothing is inferior to anything else. Everything has specific functionality. Also I do not believe the mind is “incapable” of understanding the spiritual realm, because sites like this exist because the mind can grasp some of it. But *only* as a reference point to something experienced. Not as the thing unto itself.
However I want to distinguish between “mind” and “intellect”, which I think you are focusing more on, and yes, it is mine and every other spiritualist who came down the pike’s opinion that the rational intellect is an extremely limited instrument.
The Universe is composed of vibration. Can we agree on that? Everything in it vibrates. Science tells us that. Quantum mechanics also tells us that there is no “there there”. All this “solidity” is an illusion. Yet the senses and intellect tell you “out there” is real”? Is it? If the senses and intellect cannot even fathom correctly the true nature of the “soup” they find itself in, how much more can the definition of “limited” be?
This is why Kabir wrote “I laugh when the fish in the water says it is thirsty”.
Back to frequency. If the Universe is vibrational, and therefore all vibration carries frequency, MIGHT it be likely, if not probable, if not possible that there are vast frequencies of this “reality” that the intellect can not even begin to understand or even connect too? Dogs hear sounds we don’t. We know that the light spectrum is a million times the visible spectrum of the human brain and eye.
Imagine a pipe and a fitter to another larger pipe. What if they don;t match? Imagine Am and Fm and one has only an AM radio. Does FM not exist?
It is the rationalist-materialist dilemma that it seeks and demands to “prove” the existence of, let’s say the “soul, with the “catch 22” of its own parameters. Roger Goodell, the Commissioner of the NFL handed out a punishment to Tom Brady for “breaking the rules.” After he handed down the punishment, Brady had to appeal. Who could he appeal to? Roger Goodell.
From my perspective the demand that the spiritual realm be found in a test tube is a similar theater of the absurd. For its vibrational frequency is not compatible with the intellect. Just as radio and TV waves are not compatible with it standing alone. We had to wait until technology sufficient to harness or perceive them was developed. Did they somehow not exist before then?
Einstein demonstrated mathematically that the Universe is curved and gravity affects light but it wasn’t until years after he postulated this that material science caught up with him.
I can never “prove” to you on the grounds you want that these things are real.It is the intuition that connects with them. Then the entire Universe opens up in a different way.
Do you really think all the great mystics of centuries are deluded. psychotic, or lying? I don’t ascribe that belief to you but I have dealt for years with a rabid “new atheist” group online and their hostility and irrationality around these things feels disappointing (built on the philosophy of inquiry and rational thinking they espouse they adhere to-but don’t.)
However, if I use the principles of this site, my understanding is they are where they need to be. Nothing is out of place.
So again. Its a frequency thing. Its an experiential thing. Its real. The intellect cannot grasp it. Its not its domain. This is the best I can do. Its not really up for discussion as “proof” for there is no technology yet developed that can ascertain the “soul” or the frequencies of the realms beyond the intellect and senses.
Nirvana is a state of ultimate bliss and freedom. Evolution is a process without end. A soul can experience Nirvana, yet it wouldn’t necessarily choose to stay in that state forevermore.
The process of evolution through reincarnation typically takes (in human form) several thousand years. The end of the process is completely joyful and fearless self-realisation. You could call that Nirvana, but there’s no reason to stop there.
I myself am in stage 4 — a mature soul.
I am without a doubt a Scholar soul type, with Sage casting.
If you want to know your own essence, casting, current personality and life task, you can get a reading from a Michael channel. See: https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/
Thanks so much for your knowledge and understanding!! Barry I have a 10yr old son that I’m having a hard time trying to teaching him about his choices/actions and the consequences that follows. He often does things without thinking about the consequences. Year after year at school he stays in trouble. He’s gone to 3 different schools and his behavior is bad no matter where he goes. I have disciplined with very to little results. He’s terified of his teacher calling me, but does nothing to stop his behavior. I remember his preschool teacher telling me how hyper he was. And really since then I’ve been having problems with his behavior at school. My nephew left him alone in the car for a split second, my son jumped in the driver seat and took off rolling down a hill into a busy highway and landed in a ditch. He did that w/o thinking of the consequences. His Father is. Not in the picture, I’m a single parent. I now kown or believe that I reincarnated here to help him. Please tell me how I can do that. I don’t believe in adhd or add and most schools want to keep kids doped up on meds. I had a long talk with him on yesterday and he totally understands he is wrong, and can tell tell me all about Making the right choices or suffering the consequences, but he’s having trouble incorporated this into his life. How can I help him to change his lifes path? Punishments don’t work, spankings don’t work. I want and need to connect with him on a spiritual level, I don’t want him going down the wrong path. Please offer some suggestions, thanks for your time.
A population boom does not necessarily imply an influx of new souls. Rather, souls across the spectrum are incarnating en masse to experience the excitement of the times.
Just to piggyback. To me an accurate way to gain an appraisal is to look at the activity of Souls across the planet. How does their behavior reflect Soul development? From this I glean that the most concentration is in the baby, young, mature categories with emphasis on baby and young. There seems to be an influx also of old souls coming in as well. One mature or old soul energetically can effect thousands or millions of others.
Much of the intense tribalism on Earth is baby soul stuff. Most of the developed countries and huge parts of Asia and South America seem infused with a mixture of the three I mentioned. North Korea and some others could be an infant-baby soul nation. So by no means are the majority of souls coming in for the first time.
Remember soul development is not limited to time or space as other planets have human or human like species.
Wow! Amazing article, even better insight. I don’t if it was the way it was written, constructed or the facts present, but this is one of the best spiritual articles I’ve ever read! Thank you for sharing!
Cheers Miss Missi!
Hello Barry and Ken,
Happy new year! I won’t be dismissive about the ‘Elder’s’ posting. Your reply/response may have an element of truth. To a ‘normal’ person, seeing blue orb or kundalini experience can be a hallucination, visual or tactile, as well. Above all, its all His Lila(play); why take things personal?
Thanks.
Joe.
Hi Joe,
As a rule I like to remain open to all commenters, whatever their Lila. It demonstrates how different we all are, while all being part of the One, which is the basic theme of the whole website.
But at the same time I want to maintain a civilised tone — I guess that’s my Lila, my limitation as a Mature soul.
Hi! I just wanted to say, if you guys want to delete my posts about my kundalini experience you are more than welcome. I was excited that I found you guys and may have written too much on there and at the time I was highly anxious and fearful of what I was going through as well. It does sound far off. I have to agree that to a “normal” person it would sound nuts and I don’t want to bring any negative attention your way because what you guys are doing has helped me and many others! I know that if I had read my story about 3 years ago I would’ve thought I was crazy and I’ve always had an open mind about things. I wanted you to know that I’ve became balanced. I quit meditating for a while and quit “trying” to rush the answers. It has made it so much easier to get the answers if I just patiently wait on them. 🙂 I can’t get enough of H.P. Blavatsky’s work either. I’m continuously reading “The Secret Doctrine” and I especially like her “Collected Writings” on elementals. Which I think would explain a lot of the imagery I was seeing and experiencing. My vibration was extremely low at the time obviously, I was full of fear, they fed off that and made it worse. Which could possibly explain why I was so tired at the time as well. Just my thoughts… But again I want to thank you both!!! Have a wonderful New Year and I send you all lots of love!!!
Is the soul watching his family once it’s up
Usually yes. Actually they ordinarily take a pretty strong interest and are around more than you think. They also have their own “curriculum” on the other side.
Hi!
I just wanted to leave a comment about how I feel like I recently (last couple of years) went through the transitioning experience from mature to old soul. I live in Belgium where obviously the average soul age is late young early mature and what I’ve found interesting is that I during this transitioning experience I’ve gotten more drawn to my neighbouring country The Netherlands which if I remember correct has a slightly older average soul age (mature/old). I don’t believe this is a coincidence. Another interesting fact is that also in the beginning of this experience I went to see a Reiki healer who informed me I had much energy in my upper chakras, which doesn’t seem to be a coincidence since like you said old souls vibrate along the blue color of the light spectrum.
Now, I am only in my mid 20’s which I think is quite young to reach this level so what I am wondering about is whether I have transitioned to old for the first time in this lifetime or if I have done it before in previous lifetime(s). I honestly do not know but it could actually be the former when you also consider that we just entered the Age of Aquarius and so Earth may be changing rapidly along with us.
I’m just glad that I finally moved out of the drama and insecurity of the mature soul level (a very unrewarding level). Some say that old souls are less emotional and more detached but I really do not feel so, it’s just that we do not cling to and identify with these emotions like mature’s do (we experience and acknowledge them just the same but instead of acting on em or forming your beliefs over them we prefer to let em slide and move on). For example, mature souls can often be really self-sacrificing (to others or to the group as a whole) as a result of this and also seem to have a bit of a herd mentality like child souls, while old souls realize that there is little difference between helping others and self (all are one), so we do not sacrifice ourselves for a cause and like you said again become more individualistic and confident like young souls. I can also now look everyone in the eye with ease (not intimidatingly like young souls) while I remember at mature level I often was uncomfortable with (mature level is an insecure one). To sum it up I believe that the lesson of the old soul level is simply on balance (balance between all previous soul levels/chakras). (This may sound boring but it really isn’t. Imo what is boring instead is staying stuck on one part of your total being.) And this lesson was quickly drilled into me even in the beginning when that same Reiki healer from before in that same session told me I had to focus on grounding.
Finally I want to add some little disagreements with you in that I do not think that the color white resonates with extremely young souls but instead on extremely old souls who have done all the balancing, as white is merely the sum of all colors. But then again, maybe perfect balance is impossible, who knows?
Also, from other spiritual info I’ve garnered it is my belief that even the oldest of us are still very young if you look at it from a universal scale, in that there exist dimensions beyond our 3rd dimensional one. So what I’m saying is that after old 7th here you do not become “one with the Tao” but instead become infant 1st in the next dimension. And also every dimension as a whole resonates with a big soul age/color. So according to these sources our 3rd dimension has true color yellow (aka young planet) and it will become 4rd dimension true color green (aka mature planet) when alot of us have moved to or beyond old soul age, and apparantly this isn’t so far ahead of us. They also add it is possible to “evolve” along a negative path which seeks to create total imbalance instead of balance, which explains the psychopathic among us, which is something that I feel is missing from your teachings.
But, great site and good luck to y’all! See ya. Old soul is the most fun level (as opposed to the name implies), so move quick!
Hi Neil
I don’t think you have transitioned from mature to old in a few years. Rather, you have developed in your psychological level of manifestation and identification within this life, which is what all of us do.
In each life we have to re-emerge through all our previous levels, starting from 1st level infant at the moment of birth, and “peaking” at our current soul age around mid-life. But it’s not our soul that’s evolving over the first decades of life. Rather, it is our human psyche, which gradually comes to “mirror” our soul age by growing in maturity, and in accordance a with local circumstances.
Any old soul during each incarnation will think and act like an infant soul in infancy, then like a baby soul in early childhood, then like a young soul in adolescence and a mature soul in early adulthood. The psyche doesn’t normally reflect the full depth of one’s soul age until around age 35.
Hope that makes sense.
PS – Did you read the bit about the 6th and 7th cycles (transcendental and infinite soul levels)?
Cheers!
Hi Barry!
Yes, I know what you’re saying and this is what I believed at first too. It’s just that I know almost no one of my generation who still functions at baby/child level. Most young people these days seem to be at atleast young/mature level. This I find a bit contradictory with your information that your real soul age typically doesn’t manifest until age 35, which would imply that the older generations before us would function at an average higher soul level (doesn’t seem to be the case). Thus my theory is that we live in a very special time where the Earth photon vibration is increasing causing rapid soul growth in humanity (like a catalyst), and this is why souls have been incarnating en masse. And this is why I am open to the possibility that I have reached this level for the first time, simply by responding to the new vibrations.
Now you may ask why older generations aren’t experiencing the same? Well, they are, it’s just that it’s harder to change when you have been stuck in comfort zone for so long (generally the comfort zone/ego gets stronger the longer your Earthly life gets), which gets in the way of their growth and their response to the new vibrations. As a result, many are still operating at rigid baby/child level even at this time. If my theory is correct then within a few more generations almost every incarnated soul on Earth will be atleast mature.
And yes, I have read about transcendental and infinite souls but if you are saying that infinite is the absolute highest level and for example Jesus Christ was infinite then you are wrong. According to my source (Law of One) Jesus came from the upper fourth dimension (2000 years ago, now he apparantly is in fifth dimension) which is ofcourse clearly above old soul but there apparantly there exist seven dimensions in total, so even he still has a long way to go.
I also find it weird and confusing that beyond people’s soul age you again split them up in server/king/sage/warrior. Imo a better explanation would be that these “roles” are available to everyone depending on which chakras/soul age they are using and identifying with right now. For example, red/infant souls would be primarily warriors, orange/child souls would be servers, young/yellow souls would be kings, green/mature souls would be priests and scholars and blue/old souls would be sages and artisans (not saying it’s correct but just to make a point). Then a really old soul would not be any role at all, as they are balanced, if you get what I’m saying. (All are one, all are kings, warriors, scholars, artisans, … There is no reason to limit yourself to one role (= stupid and boring). Ofcourse this is what many people do, and imo is the result of their ego’s kicking in.)
Anyway, thanks for replying! (Not trying to downplay your or Michael’s teachings but I just can’t help saying things which are on my chest. There is still alot of good stuff here.)
Niel,
One of the advantages of being a really older fart is it gives you some perspective, irrespective of soul age.
“It’s just that I know almost no one of my generation who still functions at baby/child level. Most young people these days seem to be at atleast young/mature level.”
Two points
1) Barry was saying *as an infant* an old soul will display infant characteristics
2) *Most* people of your generation imo are not displaying “young mature” level. There is great diversity. There are literally millions of baby souls in your generation. They take the form of fundamentalists. Remember we are talking world wide. Who do you think many of the players in ISIS are? I agree I see a lot of advanced souls coming in, but the world is a big place. What the proportion is I don’t know but I would hesitate to say “most”. More, maybe, hopefully.
I think the Earth’s field is commensurate with the new vibration coming in. Therefore it becomes receptive to those with higher vibration. (Law of Attraction”) Are Souls accelerating once they get here. Sure. But my sense is the parameters of what you are are pretty set before you come in. Once here you can grow, but a jump, lets say to mid young to mid mature imo is not in the cards. If you are old, at your age, you came in old. The environment did not make you “old”. It can’t speed you up that fast. What it can do is be more harmonic to allow you to flourish whereas you couldn’t come in at this level years or decades or centuries ago except under special circumstances.
I was “spiritually raised” in the Yogic tradition of the East. Being so close to a realized master (more than one) my experience is they are way beyond fifth dimension. Fifth is what we are playing with now (Fourth is the Astral plane-ghosts and stuff) I doubt seriously Jesus came in at fourth. . I work a lot with Ascended Masters (Jesus, Mary, St Germain, Kwan Yin, etc). My sense is they are around 10th or 12th. So I would disagree. The great Gurus have achieved unity, there is truly no real “I” there. They are just a complete and open channel in form for the entirety (which we all are) to express itself fully.
The other stuff I can’t comment on. I can only talk about that which I have experienced. Barry can address that. One thing I will say is individuation in form is for particular reasons. Its kind of like we need all jobs to make a society or all keys on the piano to make music. But I agree I wouldn’t restrict. Yet we must remember who “we” are. If “we” are “God” then ultimately who is having the experience? A separate identity or the whole? Therefore the issue of “restriction” is moot. Because its all by consent at a very high level. No one experience is better than another because only one energy is having the experience.
“You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the mighty ocean in a drop.”- Rumi
So in the end, who are you? Beyond this convenient conceptualization which can be helpful but is not “the thing itself”. That’s the real question.
Just to add to Ken’s response:
“Most young people these days seem to be at at least young/mature level.” — I’m not sure what population sample you are basing that on. For some of Northern Europe it may be the case, where the average soul age is evidently late Mature/Old. But globally the average soul age is at the late Young / early Mature crossover.
Given that true soul age doesn’t manifest through human personality until later in life, this means that globally the average 20-something would be manifesting (thinking and acting) more like Baby / Young, or fundamentalist / egocentric.
We cannot leap-frog from one cycle of evolution to the next by being exposed to a wave of photons. That would be analogous to a school pupil getting a PhD because there’s fairy dust in the air. We cannot rise in self-awareness, empathy, responsibility, and wisdom simply by being in the right ambient conditions. We evolve by *choosing* our own way to higher consciousness step by step, and we do that by confronting our lack of consciousness in relationship to others, and choosing to reach higher.
With regard to Jesus: The level of consciousness which eventually manifested through that physical individual (when he reached the physical age of 33 or so) was not “his” individual soul age, but a sample of the infinite unity of being at the higher planes. In that particular case, the human life served as a demonstration of infinite love and unconditional altruism, which in turn serves as a massive inspiration for all of us evolving on this planet.
“There is no reason to limit yourself to one role” … Which is precisely why, once we come into being as infant souls, we evolve by experiencing the attributes of all the roles (dominance, caution, etc.) The whole thrust of creation is to create diversity, and then for new consciousness to emerge and evolve through that diversity towards a whole new level of unity. As we evolve towards the final cycle, we do indeed become more balanced, just as you described. For example, King souls will have learned to be more humble and helpful, like Servers, and not simply leaders.
There are certainly resonances between types and levels. As Infant souls, we are overwhelmed by being in a world of experience that is not under our control (in the way that the astral is). This is precisely why Server roles manage to adapt most readily as Infant souls. They have an innate proclivity for coping with existence. The ordinal-inspiration overleaves such as attitude of Stoicism also resonate with this role and soul age. Similarly, Artisans adapt most readily at the Baby/Child levels, with their ability to create structure and to develop culture.
We are at our most different as Young souls, where standing out is what matters in terms of evolution. Infant souls of all types are more alike – just coping with physicality. Older souls are also more alike, being well-rounded and unconcerned with being “special”.
Which leads me to an observation: Your keenness to distinguish yourself as an Old soul is not exactly typical of Old souls. Your earlier remarks about the Mature cycle being “unrewarding” and your expression of relief at being past all that suggests (ironically) a lack of empathy. No cycle is more rewarding than another. An eternal soul has no reason to “move quick.” Moving from one soul level to another isn’t a sign of achievement. It’s all good.
PS – haha, just rereading my response – apologies if I sound grouchy and confrontational, it’s because i have a lingering viral chest infection that’s kept me awake for 3 nights in a row and I’m feeling more than a little fed up with it!
I was thinking along similar lines. To me, the hall mark of “Old Souls” is not balance or contentment but realization and empathy. The heart widens and identity becomes background, not foreground. I have not seen these attributes in your posts. Thus either you are not an old soul or you are an old soul following precisely the evolution in this incarnation of development Barry (Michael) outlined. So you would still be in “young-mature” level at the personality level and your fuller awakening awaits you as you approach your mid thirties.
Sorry if these grizzled “mature souls” play Devil’ advocate. As I said, there is some value in having been around in a body for a while. Wisdom is the exchange for age.
P.S. Barry there are a lot of baby souls out there. How did you come up with globally Young-Mature? Maybe I’m being influenced too much by media as violence in the world has actually gone way down. I think Climate Change is the #1issue facing humanity.
To Barry and Ken,
I figured as much that you guys would downplay my self-labeling as “old soul” as soon as I started questioning your assumptions/teachings with other teachings I’m more closely attuned with. And no, I could actually care less about which my soul age actually is and the only reason I assigned the old soul label to myself is because the descriptions of all the other ages simply resonate with me less than this one. I obviously do not identify with infant, child or young, nor the emotional drama or the endless intellectual introspectiveness of the mature soul. And Live and let live is indeed my trademark.
Barry – “I’m not sure what population sample you are basing that on. For some of Northern Europe it may be the case, where the average soul age is evidently late Mature/Old. But globally the average soul age is at the late Young / early Mature crossover.”
Yes, I am ofcourse biased to the area where I live so I may be wrong. However, if my theory is false then you still haven’t addressed the fact as to why the older generations in my same area seem to be functioning at an obviously younger soul age?
Ken – “I was thinking along similar lines. To me, the hall mark of “Old Souls” is not balance or contentment but realization and empathy. The heart widens and identity becomes background, not foreground. I have not seen these attributes in your posts. Thus either you are not an old soul or you are an old soul following precisely the evolution in this incarnation of development Barry (Michael) outlined.”
And see, this is where you are wrong. The heart is the center of focus of the mature soul moreso than the old soul, because the heart is the fourth chakra (green ray) which is the springboard level from the third (yellow ray/young soul)! That is why the young and the mature seem so opposed, and precisely why mature is the most self-sacrificial level! The old soul then moves on to the fifth (blue) and sixth (indigo) chakra (seventh chakra is merely the sum of all previous 6), which is when the balancing starts (function of third eye, again incorporation of the selfish lower chakras with the altruistic higher ones). If you guys are indeed mature then it is obvious why you are resistant to my self-label as old soul, since you cannot believe that an old soul can be less “empathic” than you.
Look, you guys are part of the new age movement, which I’m telling you right now is a mature soul movement, not an old soul one. This is because all your energy goes to your hearts, but you neglect your gut and your head. You also say that identity disappears as your heart grows stronger, but please then tell me why you identify with your heart? Identity is CORE, whether false or true, and it can never disappear, only change.
“No cycle is more rewarding than another.” Tell that to all those infant souls in Africa who are being devoured by lions. It is pain (catalyst) that causes us to want to move/”evolve” quick, because with each next step your life becomes more harmonious (even though young souls often have material succes, their inner life is one of agony). This is also why comfort is bad because it hinders progress. If your life is not more harmonious after you moved to the next level then you simply have not moved on to the next level. This is because higher vibrations are corrolated with lower entropy (entropy is chaos).
“The environment did not make you “old”. It can’t speed you up that fast. What it can do is be more harmonic to allow you to flourish whereas you couldn’t come in at this level years or decades or centuries ago except under special circumstances.”
Assumptions, assumptions. The environment cannot make you old? Then why do bananas ripe faster when you add ethylene (catalyst) to the environment? What gives you the authority that you can deny that a soul can move very fast in one lifetime given the right circumstances?
Wow. Niels,
I find a lot of assumptions in your post. We all try to bring thoughts and perspective to these discussions. My perception is you perceive us as “attacking” you. “I figured as much that you guys would downplay my self-labeling as “old soul” as soon as I started questioning your assumptions/teachings with other teachings.”
If you read my posts I did not “down play” anything because I am not in your skin, and frankly could not really know. The very term “Devil’s Advocate” means a debating device for the purpose of illuminating or helping to clarify a part of that discussion. If some of your writing puts up red flags from my experience, then should we not discuss it, rather than taking anything one says at face value, just as you should not and clearly are not taking some or much of this site at face value?
There is so much here (and in your subsequent post) I can not address it all and in the end, it appears on several issues we are not going to agree, which is fine. What is, is, and no amount of intellectual debate will change reality. So I honor where you are.
My core position in my life is I do not comment significantly on things In have not personally experienced. Teachings may look grand or wonderful (such as Multiverse theory), but I will not pretend to be adroit in that knowledge if I have not had meaningful personal encounter with it. So I believe in simultaneous multidimensional realities because of my intuitive contact with it and fusion with energies that strongly suggest it, but I would never try to espouse any detail on it because my experiential platform is not large enough.
So I will address one issue in which I do have expertise. The issue of victim perpetrator and Soul contracts. I have had enough experience and encounter with it on many levels to say that for me, this spiritual “theory” is correct. I actually teach on the subject and there are about 6 converging vectors of information (including my own personal mystical experience) that reinforce that this is the way things are and that the subtle realms are extremely ordered in their interface with the physical experience. If it were not so, how could there be such ac thing as “Soul evolution” to begin with? Everything would be chaos.
I do agree with one thing you said on this. “error: future is unknown, only guesses can be made)”. Yes. I gave a talk on this in relationship to Quantum Mechanics. In reality we come in as an energy-consciousness stream of probabilities. Some probabilities are far stronger than others and for the most part are unmoveable (parents, culture, body, major life events-relationships) but in theory everything can be moved. The fee will issue is usually most evident in how we deal with these events, situations and people, and hoe we cope with “choice points” we have set up for ourselves as a challenge for certain lessons and growth we want in this life.
Language can obscure or distort so we may actually be closer in thought than we think because there may be ac refinement in your expression that is not coming across. But I ask you two questions and I would like your answer.
1) What happens to Souls on the “negative path”. How do they reunite with “God” (who they can’t escape because how can the wave escape the Ocean)?
2) My parents were horrific abusers emotionally, especially my mother. Were they on the “negative path” because on the surface it appears they behaved terribly and were deeply narcissistic, or did I make a prearranged agreement with them that either they would behave this way because I needed it badly for my development or our karmas interfaced into an agreement for the same outcome? Since I am a medium I contact them often on the other side. Not only are they totally different rhere but what is strange and ironic is they were a zealous atheist (father) and deep agnostic (mother). Yet there they both have healing power and gifts, which astonished me when I first encountered it on a drive to Lancaster one night. Go figure.
I cannot deny the power of my own mystical encounter with the subject, which is quite strong, and every vector points toward the fact that perpetrator-victim is an illusion of the world of duality, necessary when the soul in human form explores the realm of contrast. Like the sand in the oyster, someone has to play the “bad guy” in order for growth to take place. My experience is without the dark, the soul cannot fully understand itself as light. Or as a channel-mentor said to me many years ago, “If one is always in a 70 degree room, one never fully appreciates it until one has gone into the extremes of hot and cold, and then returns”.
Each of us has to be true to what we learn and experience. I am not just relying on Michael teachings (but a lifetime of teachings and experience). My Guru for example never spoke of such a thing and emphasized that God was with the sinners also. There is an old saying- ” A sinner is a saint with a past, a saint is a sinner with a future.”
One last thought. I think the New Age movement is an extremely diverse group and some its greatest generators as an integral part of this movement of energy were very old souls such as Neem Karoli Baba who flooded though “”Be Here Now”, Ram Das’ conduit for him which accelerated millions of people, as did Yogananda with his autobiography, and the great Buddhist teachers and other Yogic Masters.
This site and you and me would not be where we are without them. And I would like to suggest that without “mature souls” (as you termed things) laying and anchoring the grid for decades of hard work, you would not have had the energetic field, whether receptive to you or initiating (in your terms) for you to flourish in. Things don’t happen by accident imo and everyone as the expression of the “One” work together.
I appreciate your path and your insights. Some of which we agree with, some of which we don’t. In the end, our story does not matter that much. What we do with it does.
And if you knew me you would never say I am not in my head or connected to it.
Thanks for participating.
P.S. sorry for the typos. One last thing. My intuition tells me that the whole here is like a giant oscilloscope. Because everything (as you noted) are probabilities it constantly self adjusts and has created room for this constant variation. This does not mean there is no intention , and often quite specific intention, in the pre-life phase. Some lives are highly scripted. others are very loose. Its quite a symphony.
“We meet only those people with whom our meeting is predestined. Duration of association with each person is also preordained. One should not grieve if one is separated or if the association does not last long.” – Neem Karoli Baba
Neem Karoli Baba was one of the greatest of Masters. But he said very little. It was not in his nature to expound. This statement covers the basics and the big picture is true. But if there might be technical variations, it was not in his nature to touch on it for the essence of what he wanted to impart would be lost. A Guru, no matter how great, is just one conduit for something much vaster. So that which is the All may use one vehicle for certain purposes and others for different ones, or to clarify something one vehicle could not address.
So my Guru, equal to Neem Karoli Baba (NKB said of him “Krishna was born in jail and now he is in jail again-my Guru was a political prisoner of the Indian government) never spoke of angels, rarely spoke of the afterlife, never spoke of “soul contracts”. Who “he” really was (which is me) knew that down the line these things would come into play. And in connecting with them free will is emphasized quite strongly. Yogananda also believed in free will and he was part of a lineage of great, great Masters.
In the end I do not *know* the answer. But all current “technology of consciousness” points toward some element of free will. But within limits. At the highest level I agree it dissolves for God is in control. One must return to ones origins, it is not up for discussion.
However I believe there is wiggle room for the timing. This corresponds to a Quantum Universe. As above, so below. Otherwise the whole thing becomes a machine- a Calvinistic determinism. And to be straight, where’s the fun in that for God? The word “Lila” means “creative sport”. Yogananda called this “God’s hobby”.
Would you like to play a game where the outcome was completely determined at every level every time?
BORING. At this level imo , my experience, what causes the juice is the variable unpredictability. In the end, I agree, Source is the doer, but some flexibility is built into the system.
I have had powerful intuitives say things like “you are a year behind”. In Whitton’s book the woman crashed and burned the plan. All probabilities exist simultaneously, but not all manifest The Universe is a remarkably adaptable organism. I got myself in such a pickle that my Guru came to me in a dream and said millions of years were at stake and he could only come to me three more times before I was on my own. Didn’t feel in the least like everything was just ordained and I had no choice in the matter. Quite the opposite. Thank God I recovered. He came to me in a dream and predicted the breakdown. (That was ordained) But the severity of it had a lot to do with how I handled it. He was there to course correct but was powerless if I didn’t follow though. Again, I don’t believe for a second it was all preordained the way it manifested.
There are so many examples of this.
Just my opinion. Go for what works for you.
To Ken and Barry,
I admit I may have come off as a bit defensive in my last post, so I’d like to apologize for that. It really doesn’t matter anyway what my or your soul age is.
However, I’ll try to answer your questions Ken:
“1) What happens to Souls on the “negative path”. How do they reunite with “God” (who they can’t escape because how can the wave escape the Ocean)?”
The negative or service-to-self path came into being with the advent of free will (although unexpected), and needs to stay this way otherwise free will be diminished in the process.
However, ‘entities’ on this path are allowed to “evolve” to fourth and fifth density (our third density is mixed polarity while fourth/fifth are split into positive and negative and these two realities are separated, this is why third density is called the ‘choice’ density) because they also see the Creator, but only in themselves (whereas positive entities see the Creator in others or in the whole). However, after fifth density comes the sixth density, which is the density of Oneness. This means that the two paths cease to exist there (as all needs to be seen as one), aka that positive entities need to join with negative entities. This is not very hard for positive entities but very hard for negative entities and thus few negative fifth density entities are able to make this “jump” in perception, so if they want to ascend to sixth density they often have to come back to third density and switch polarity, a very lengthy process apparantly. In any case, their souls do not get “destroyed” as some teachings teach.
“2) My parents were horrific abusers emotionally, especially my mother. Were they on the “negative path” because on the surface it appears they behaved terribly and were deeply narcissistic, or did I make a prearranged agreement with them that either they would behave this way because I needed it badly for my development or our karmas interfaced into an agreement for the same outcome”
When I said that abuse is not needed I did not mean that it is useless. Abuse can be seen as negativity and negativity’s role to positive people is that of a catalyst. These painful experiences can thus help you polarize more quickly in either direction. For example, psychology teaches us that victims of abuse often become abusers themselves later in life, and this is exactly for this reason as these people used this experience of victimhood to culminate a “fist of anger” against others and so they ended up polarizing more negatively as a result and became abusers themselves.
However, the opposite is also possible and other victims of abuse have used this experience to instead quickly polarize more positively so they could step out of this cycle of perpetrator-victim and have become very empathic/intuitive people as a result.
To sum it up, negativity came into being with the advent of free will (through the “veil of forgetting” which applies to our third density of self-consciousness) and the one good thing that has come out of it is faster polarization in either direction.
This is why I contradict myself and in some cases one could in fact have chosen to be born in an abusive environment if your soul wanted to polarize quickly. However, it is wrong for the Michael teachings to assume that every mature soul has played the role of abuser (and that every young soul is an abuser). This is only if they switched polarity from negative to positive at one time. (Although since we’re all somewhat mixed polarity in this reality, it is true that we all are a little bit abusive.) And nor is playing the role of victim necessary, unless you were trying to speed up your own spiritual evolution.
I’m having a little bit of a hard time following this so I need time to digest it. Its entirely possible. One question. Is this something you have personally experienced or is this something you have read? My own approach is never to accept something fully “carte blanche” unless I have personal experience with it.
Otherwise its just a nice theory and another belief system. There are all kinds of wild things out habout the origins of all this *Edgar Cayce for example.) I can only resonate with that which i have had personal intuitive encounter that becomes validating.
However I am firm that victim-perpetrator is an illusion. All is by agreement or cause.
Thanks for your comment.
“Is this something you have personally experienced or is this something you have read? My own approach is never to accept something fully “carte blanche” unless I have personal experience with it.”
It is material from the Law of One channelings which is the only one so far which I almost fully resonate with (I wouldn’t resonate with it if it weren’t in-tune with my experience if that answers your question) and what I’ve said in my last post is based on my personal understanding of it. Whether it is the truth or not I found it important to post here because it allows for a different perspective. I mean, if young souls are so bad then why isn’t my dog – an extremely young soul I guess – bad? Sounds simple but it’s something to think about. I also haven’t read anything about Edgar Cayce.
So what I’ve found is that the worldview given in the Ra material seems to me like a completely fresh mix between Western (duality) and Eastern (non-duality) religion, or it could simply be that it’s not a mix at all but that both Western and Eastern religion are merely distortions from the original truth (like two different pieces of the puzzle). As such, unlike many new agers I have become quite skeptical of much channeled material which to me seems like modern rehash of Eastern non-duality religion. Do you think it’s any wonder why this site lists many Eastern guru bullshitters as extremely old and enlightened souls? Avatars, are you kidding me?
I’m replying to your post below which therr is no reply button. First I respect the issue of resonance. That is important. But by experience I mean do you have any first hand knowledge of these things through your personal intuitive channels? I ‘ll give you an example. There is a woman, forget her name, who has written a number of books about light workers and their origins on other planets, etc., Lots of people love her stuff. But to me I have no idea if it is real or not. I accept issues of star and other system origins because I nave had strong intuitive hits about it, but to put it into a cosmology is something beyond me so i just don’t go there..
The reason I feel so strongly about the victim perpetrator thing and Soul Contracts is not only has it emerged as a powerful currency (Law of Attraction,Conversations with God etc) but I have had extremely significant personal intuitive and experiential encounters with it as truth. These in turn have been reinforced by a local very strong channel who was a mentor and books like Your Soul’s Plan. So resonance is important but it still would be just a belief system if I had not had authentic personal engagement, (Through mediumship) so much so I can now literally “see” the outlines of it in many people in situations.
The other issue is one of “outliers” Example. The Course in Miracles proposes an origin of this Universe that is contrary to almost all other mature systems including Vedanta, and most New Age cosmologies that stipulate this is all a creation of the one. The course, following Christian theology (as does the Aquarian Gospel), posits this as a “fall”, a rebellion of the Sons of God against God due to formation of ego. In other words the Lucifer rebellion renamed. Many people are so enamored of ACIM they swallow this. But to me it is nonsense and is an outlier. Edgar Cayce was in the same ball park that advanced beings became entranced with Earth and got trapped here. I don’t know but it doesn’t fit for me. I asked my Guides about ACIM and they said their theory on this point was a distortion because the channels at the time had no room for the fuller explanation and as representatives of the collective were resistant to it. So in order for the main trust to come through, which is magnificent, the corruption had to be.
So “devolution” in the way you describe it from my experience is an outlier. I have not seen it mentioned in this way from any other source. Could it be true? Possibly. Bur when couple with a rejection of the illusion of victim perpetrator the piece then becomes for me not valid. The only thing comparable is in Eastern philosophy in which extreme degradation leads not to a negative pole, but regression to animal form. Gurus are pretty strong on this. One of the things that has come up here is is this true or not because modern investigators say humans and animals are following different evolutionary lines and rarely cross. Here is another area in which I can’t really comment because I don’t have the depth of intuitive connection to say which theory is true. However I do believe that when you reach human form, its pretty hard to go back or even so.
Speaking of animals, I am concerned with your understanding of “Young Souls”. Animals are not in this equation. They have a different track. So a dog could be a more advanced being. A friend was with a group of people at a channeling and the energy said “the highest being in the room right now is the dog”. Kind of blows our human centric thinking out of the water.
Last. You said, “As such, unlike many new agers I have become quite skeptical of much channeled material which to me seems like modern rehash of Eastern non-duality religion. **Do you think it’s any wonder why this site lists many Eastern guru bullshitters as extremely old and enlightened souls? Avatars, are you kidding me?”**
Having been involved with channeling intensely for 23 years I would have to dispute that strongly. One gains in time an appreciation for the distinction and authenticity of frequency, not only in information, but in the true transmission of Divine energy and love. Its not about what is in the books. Its the living experience of God energy in this form.
To the second part of your statement, the great Yogic tradition is one I was “raised in” for I was the direct disciple of a true Indian Sat Guru who appeared in my dreams for years. This is home territory for me and to be kind, you are way, I mean WAY, off base in your assessment. This imo comes from lack of experience. You say you are an Old Soul, but an Old Soul would not be prone to this level of judgmental temperament or belief, and frankly ignorance. Maybe Barry’s assessment is correct and you are displaying Young Soul energy commensurate with your psychological and chronological age while developing.
I appreciate your commitment to this kind of knowledge and this journey. My impression is you need a lot of seasoning. You’re throwing out a lot of stuff that is not sticking and there is value in having been around for a while (long while) and separating wheat from chaff.
Ken,
It is not because you had mediumship that it automatically makes it the truth, since you have no idea of the level and polarity of the being in contact. Thus it doesn’t matter if the information gotten was personally channeled or merely found on the internet. What matters is whether it raises your vibration or lowers it, and to know this you need to be very in touch with your own chakra system otherwise it is best to simply to stay away from it alltogether imo. This is why I like the Law of One, since it gives a practical knowledge about energy centers which you can actually feel if you pay attention. Even the densities it lists are corrolated with the 7 energy centers on a more cosmic level. E.g. 7th density is all densities combined similar to how the 7th chakra is merely the sum of all chakras. Then the acceptance of a “negative path” becomes not merely blind faith of its existence but merely a logical conclusion of extreme chakra blockage which is admitted everywhere that it is possible.
The Ra material also does not follow Christian theology at all and I am very much not attracted to theosophical societies and the like. I am simply not attracted to anything that proposes a kind of “spiritual hierarchy”, and for this same reason is my resistance to the soul age concept and the association of positivity and negativity with it. So better explained when I said I recently transitioned into “old soul” in my OP I merely meant I had penetrated upper chakras and as a result no longer do things that make me feel bad simply to go along with society or to further my “career” (as that would result in blockage).
Also, you say it’s disturbing I view animals as extremely young souls (2nd density beings) but what I find disturbing as that you view them completely out of the human experience and even more that you blindly accept the belief that a dog could be a more advanced being. Sure, their vibration can be higher because they do not yet have acces to negative polarity (choice begins in third density remember?) but that doesn’t mean it has an older soul. Total craziness imo. Reminds me of Eastern cow worship. And then I have no fucking clue how you can find it more rational to belief that descending back in animal kingdom is a more sane conclusion to a negative path/karma then merely ascending in a different place, as I personally do not see even the slightest resemblance in psychopaths and dogs for example…
But really, it is obvious I am an anomoly in your narrow minded system of pop spiritual psychology and soul age and that you guys are merely using this a means to further your spiritual ego’s (“I am bigger authority because I have older soul age. If you disagree with me, that means your soul age is younger than mine.”). Like you said, you have been involved in channelings for about 23 years so for all you know, you may have been mislead like no tomorrow, considering your naïvety to negativity… And it’s obvious it is clearly you who has very strong belief systems, as while I seem to be quite capable of merging different teachings together you obviously cannot find a space of the Ra material in your big head filled with spiritual nonsense.
I am out of here, it’s been enough…
To below. I agree Niels, its time to part. Thanks for sharing . In many ways it has been an illuminating conversation.
“In many ways it has been an illuminating conversation.”
That is true. =)
Anyways, good luck to you too.
My understanding of an old soul is someone who accepts differences in others and rather than berating others for their ideas, they accept these differences and value other’s point of view; to aid us all in our own journey. I am not an expert in this area, so perhaps I am wrong. I do not agree with everything in this article, but I am interested in the opinions and believes of yourself and the others that have taken the time to post. I am hoping that in the future the comments posted can be more offered in such a way that it promotes discussion or at the very least is constructive criticism. Thank you for your thoughts.
P.S. Where do you get in some of Northern Europe the average is late mature/old? They are half atheist. I could see average as early to mid mature? They’re not THAT progressive. France has a huge anti semitic and Muslim problem. Germany is no picnic. Forget Spain and Italy. Scandinavia? Maybe. But late mature to old? I doubt it.
Sources: the original transcripts, the books and subsequent bits of channelling here and there.
Ah, I wonder if you’re reading “northern” Europe as “western” Europe?
France, Spain Germany and Italy are certainly not thought of as northern Europe. Essentially I mean Scandinavia and Iceland. Finland, for example, is said to be a predominantly Old soul country. Their education system is phenomenally different from what you find in countries that have a dominant Young soul population.
All countries have a full-spectrum spread, but the largest ‘sector’ varies from one country to another. The UK and Netherlands are said to be predominantly Mature, but still with lots of Baby souls looking after Ye Olde establishment and Young souls drawing attention to themselves. The Middle East attracts Young souls who like to argue who’s right. North Korea is clearly a haven for Baby souls.
Yes, the news media can paint a distorted picture. Whatever country you’re in, your news media is going to focus predominantly on the atrocities committed by younger souls – those who are still building up their karma. Old souls rarely make the news.
Come to think of it, I wonder what Fox News would make of a Jewish carpenter walking around the Middle East preaching peace and love. “Like that’s ever gonna work! That crazy hippy should be handing out guns to Israeli citizens!!”
Hello Ken,
Thanks for the reply.
I don’t have any psychic abilities as of now. (Though my horoscope says I may develop one during my Ketu period, which is about to come and am waiting). But IMO, Many masters tell/do things as they are destined to do, in general. More specifically they speak depending on the audience. The secrets of Nature reveals themselves to the person through many channels/ways, according to its Soul evolution status. By recently I developed a witness attitude as N. Maharaj says. So things as revealed to me in bits beforehand, and I will have the fun of seeing how it got uncovered, in-front of me.
I am not boasting or contradicting you. But I have a feeling that all is pre-determined even me having a coffee in the morning at a particular time. So everything depends on the observer to a point where what data is more convincing to him. This an observation paraphrased from quantum mechanics where Einstein said, ” I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice”.
The same Einstein said this too, ” “Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”
Have a great weekend.
Thanks.
I honor your perspective Joe. However, in context,about “dice”, Einstein was replying to Bohr over the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and Born’s discovery of the nature of the Quantum world as probabilities.
In this case, Bohr was right and Einstein was wrong. Einstein was also wrong on the issue of entanglement and locality.
Its fine if Einstein believed in determinism. I believe that at the highest level determinism is the rule. The Soul must advance. The game is set. The largest probabilities in most are like tree trunks. They don’t move.
However room is created at ground zero for variation.(probabilities) To illustrate.
A man is in a hospital room with a father he has hated all his life. A moment arises when he has the opportunity to kill him. No one will know. He struggles with the urge and decides not to, it is against his deepest principles yet he has to fight his deep hatred of the man who abused him. Years later he has a minor bicycle accident. In a profound realization, he becomes aware that his decision not to kill his father created a ripple effect that changed a major, perhaps fatal car accident into a minor encounter with a bicycle. (broken leg).
The determinist says the choice always was ordained. My understanding is this: The choice _point_ was ordained. The choice was not. It was a critical juncture of soul decision in which several probabilities were in play. Like the branch, not the trunk of the tree. Nothing at that point was fixed in stone. And therein lies part of the magnificence of the human adventure. This flexibility.
Does the man ultimately have “free will” to create chaos all over the place with his soul life and development? No.
I was with one of the channels that has been most significant for me over the last decade. His take was the word “contract” needed to be replaced by the word “intention”. You have an intention coming in but it can change once you get here. You plan a trip to Europe but once there your itinerary changes due to circumstance. The trip to Europe was the destiny. How it played out had a lot to do with “free will”.
My understanding is most souls never fulfill 100% of their intention. Also as I said, its very diverse. Some events are tightly scripted. I had powerful experiences intuitively that, for example, the JFK assassination and the Iraq War were pretty set in stone, the latter ONCE the country had collectively gone down the road where its manifestation was inevitable. But the gathering of Neo Cons and the defeat of Gore were probabilities that were not a certainty. They were one of many but once a line had been crossed fairly long before, it happened.
I did some intuitive writing and I was told “Bush will be the nexus point where all the contradictions of the society will come to the surface” and in 2004 I was told again “Bush has not yet finished the work he has come to do”. So it was a very strong probability, but not strictly inevitable.
However the overall arc of America’s development as a Super Power was inviolable. And that I think Neem Karoli Baba was speaking to because the overall concept was extremely foreign in the West.
Bohr Einstein can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates
You might look at this also for it beautifully reflectsNKBsentiments
https://www.facebook.com/notes/lessons-learned-in-life/people-come-into-your-life-for-a-reason-a-season-or-a-lifetime/161389173925281
We set things up. How we deal with them imo has fluidity. That’s what gives real juice to the game.
I’m a little confused as to why he can’t be looked at as an individual? Why does it matter what stage the other people in his countries and the other countries you named are in? Is it not possible for him to not be in the same stage as the other’s in his country. I’m not trying to come off as a wise guy, this is all new to be. I have just recently slowly but surely become in lightened with in the last 3yrs, I am no longer “sleeping”. My spirit guide is leading me to knowledge, the more I thirst for it the more I receive.(I’m very grateful for that).
Very interesting post. If you are an old soul I would suggest the latter rather than the former. To come into this level early suggest it has been achieved before you arrived and are accelerating. Not so sure its universal Old Souls don’t get involved in causes (you stipulate “sacrifice themselves”.) My Guru was at Sat Guru level and his entire movement was a cause and Dalai Lama is pretty involved.
Color white comes from Michael Newton’s “Journey of Sous” and refers to soul color on the other side. In his experience advanced Souls move from blue to violet. He couldn’t go beyond that as his subjects had limitations. Whether he’s right or not I don’t know.
Agree with the next level assessment. Barry has pointed out that in the Michael teachings there are two major stages beyond the non physical so you would deal with higher vibration causal realms, etc.
I have not come across a “negative path evolution”. Souls may travel that road for a while but it is my understanding the foundational arc is toward growth and integration. From what I have seen there are many reasons a Soul could be a psychopath so I would be careful to not generalize.
Best of luck (which doesn’t exist.) My hope is your vibration will add to the world. My belief and experience is a lot of advanced Souls are coming in because the planet needs their energy, wisdom, and gifts. Its not time imo for a Cosmic vacation here.
Hi Ken,
What I mean by “not sacrificing for a cause” is that you can no longer help the cause if you have sacrificed yourself, so why sacrifice yourself for it then? I did not mean to say that causes are useless, but what I said was specifically targeted to mature souls who put the cause (or others) on a pedestal but neglect themselves in so doing (instead of putting themselves and the cause/others on equal footing). Like Barry wrote mature’s are basically the opposite of young’s, in that the former put others on a pedestal whereas the latter puts him-/herself on a pedestal. And this is where old souls come in in that we seek a balance between these two modes of functioning.
And yes, I agree what you said about Michael Newton in that old souls are trying to go from blue to violet instead of white. This is because I think white is too perfect to achieve so the closest that comes to it is violet.
About your reply to the “negative path”:
The Law of One calls it the service-to-self path. Many of our worldly leaders are in fact on this path and many wars have been fought. I am only saying this because this site seems to have some rose-coloured glasses on when it comes to bad things happening. For example, wars are blamed on child and young souls, while in fact, they are the result of negative old souls puppeteering/manipulating these younger souls, in other words, they are psychopaths (no, an infant soul is not a psychopath). So it is for example true that young souls like competition but a healthy young soul would not go so far as destroy the planet for it or sacrifice other people to win the “game” like in war. This is again, the workings of these service-to-selfers. And apparantly there does not just exist positive upper dimensions/causal realms like this site implies, but also negative “upper” dimensions/causal realms which is where these negative old souls are working on to end up. Believe it or not, but without them our world would be much better off, and it has hard for us to understand but they actually NEED to accumulate bad karma in order to end up there!
I agree with you about the sacrificing part. The other I can’t really comment on because frankly in 45 years on this path i have never heard of it. I teach on Soul contracts and my experience is everything is ordered around here and everywhere and that “Through ALL things is love revealed”. I’ve dealt for years with very high local channels so I’m not dependent on one lens and this view for me does not compute.
In Conversations With God, “God” said about Hitler, “If a madman walks off a cliff and 30 million follow, is the mad man to blame?” Abraham flatly stated “Governments do not make war, the collective makes war through its leaders” I had a personal vision from Gerald Ford after watching Frost-Nixon in which he confirmed this position. (As did William F Buckley-I’m a Medium and a lot of famous people have come to me.) Nixon said, “You must learn to have compassion even for one such as I” (exact words). Now he’s in a very good place. It amazes me. I hated him when he was alive, Now he’s kind of a spiritual friend.
Your view implies perpetrator-victim. And that somehow things are out of place. I have learned perpetrator-victim is an illusion and nothing is out of place. At the highest level it is all by collective agreement. I agree with Michael. Most abusers (unless a mature contracts for it) are baby-young. The mature Soul and above has no interest or inclination in worldly power or wealth for its own sake. And the society draws the leaders it needs as its expression for the lessons it needs. Remember, its all connected.
That’s why there are so m any baby souls in power in America right now. Karmic payback, imo, dictated it. We have a lot to burn off.
“Your view implies perpetrator-victim. And that somehow things are out of place. I have learned perpetrator-victim is an illusion and nothing is out of place. At the highest level it is all by collective agreement. I agree with Michael. Most abusers (unless a mature contracts for it) are baby-young.”
Ah, now I understand the distortion of these teachings. You are unwilling to admit a negative spiritual evolution (or devolution) so all evil doings must be attributed to baby and young souls. And since you identify as a mature soul, this automatically makes you a good/spiritual person who can never do wrong again (as you already went through that “phase”). Such narcissism…
And no, perpetrator-victim is not an illusion simply because it is not part of your or my reality. IT IS THE REALITY OF THE NEGATIVE SOULS. The negative path is a pyramid, with everyone in that pyramid being simultaneously the victim of those on top and the perpetrator to those below. Stepping out of the perpetator-victim cycle doesn’t mean your soul age has grown, but simply that you switched polarity from negativity to positivity. This is the entire error of the Michael teachings, the unwillingness to recognize two paths, good and evil. (“Omg, he speaks about good and evil! Must be a baby soul then!” Nono my friend, old souls are balancing themselves remember? Hence why we again acknowledge good and evil… (although a much more refined perspective))
You also talk about everything that happens being a premade agreement on a higher level (error: future is unknown, only guesses can be made). Look, the only agreement that has been made was your incarnation at your time and place. No one “agrees” for the distorted roles of abuse or abuser (unless you are trying to polarize negatively), and no one actually needs this experience (again, unless you are trying to polarize negatively).
I actually regret leaving a comment now because I see that you are actually the ones in need of teaching and not vice versa…
I never said all evil must be attributed to baby or young souls. Life is much more complex than that. But if I look in America, most of what I consider “evil” is being perpetrated by baby and young souls. The tea party is a baby soul movement. (So is the Taliban and ISIS) Chris Christie who is a terrible bully is a young soul. Bin Laden Was cunning. But his essence was baby-young. Romney is a young soul playing with baby souls. Stalin most likely was young (“all for me”). Reagan was baby-young (and he has apologized profusely for his behavior.) Do you really think Idi Amin was a mature soul?
I would like to see some examples of these “devolved souls”. It would be helpful to clarify your thinking and what you have learned. Either Jeffrey Dahmer was “devolved” or he was a very young soul who had not yet developed any empathy and still was in a phase where cruelty intrigued him and he may have enjoyed inflicting pain on others. The latter makes sense to me.
Last point. “No one “agrees” for the distorted roles of abuse or abuser (unless you are trying to polarize negatively), and no one actually needs this experience (again, unless you are trying to polarize negatively)”
The first experience I had with all this was way before I knew anything about it. (20 years ago) A friend of mine called me one day and was terribly distraught. A young female friend of his had been murdered in Center City, Philadelphia. She was 23. We took a walk in a center City Park and he was beside himself. I had no idea what I could say to him and was just trying to be with him.
Suddenly, as if it descended from the sky, a cone of brilliant light surrounded me and I heard my own voice saying ” her death was prearranged by her as a sacrifice for those around here so they might deepen their appreciation of the sanctity of life”. Not only were there these words but a powerful wave of peace not only embraced me but went out like a wave and embraced my friend. He immediately calmed down. said that he deeply felt the energy and the truth of the words. It was an extremely profound moment. Years later I was led to start working more with this issue. I didn’t go looking for it. Since I have medium ability it fit in well.
Is there some possibility of soul “devolution”? Can souls go backward? Sure. In Joel Whitton’s “Life Between Life” (He was an “interlife hypnotherapist like Michael Newton), a young woman had contracted for a major, wonderful life as a concert musician and blew the contract completely by going off a cliff high on alcohol and drugs in her 30’s. (this was in the 30’s or 40’s). The woman who showed up in Whitton’s office for counseling was an “emergency incarnation” put together by her guides to get he back on track. This was the most extreme example I have ever run across.
You wrote “Ah, now I understand the distortion of these teachings. You are unwilling to admit a negative spiritual evolution (or devolution) so all evil doings must be attributed to baby and young souls. And since you identify as a mature soul, this automatically makes you a good/spiritual person who can never do wrong again (as you already went through that “phase”). Such narcissism…”
This is a pretty big red flag for me as you are ascribing egotistic personal motives to this journey that just are not present. I readily admit I make plenty of mistakes in this life and my worst wrong, which I am working on, is badly I treat myself.
One does not have to hurt others to “sin” (make error- the original meaning)
hi Niels,
An interesting take.
I have read before about the astral plane extending into both positive and negative directions. I has also read of demons as well as certain alien beings (esp. lizards) dominating the negative astral planes, and that even the ‘naughtiest’ of humans usually slot underneath that pyramid where they can be abused by those above them and abuse those below them. I have even read these beings encourage negativity on earth for the sole intention of mentally enslaving humans to towards a negative astral plan past so life so they can be further abused there. Whilst, I have read of such things but cannot verify much of it, the possible exception being accidentally exorcising an aquaintance one time from some demonic influence during a candle-chakra meditation.
At the same time, coming back to Ken’s point, I would be interested to hear the name of just “one” purported Mature or Old soul involved in such a negative pyramid. There must be one name you can mention to prove your point.
Otherwise we are left with the possibility of a negative astral world frequented by Infant/Baby/Young Souls but no Mature/Old Souls.
My reply would ask to go a level higher. In some respects it mirrors the age old issue of whether the Devil exists or not and if so in what capacity. We must ultimately remember who we truly are and what this sand box is about. EVERYTHING is God. No exceptions. EVERYTHING in essence is light and love. This Universe from my understanding was created to explore every inch, every facet, every angle of _separation_. Therefore at the highest level where we are always one with our true self, there is collective agreement on all parameters of the experience for everything is needed. Otherwise it would not come into existence. If we fall into the dualistic stance (this is good, that is bad) we leave unity consciousness.
This is not to minimize the issue of suffering that comes with the territory. But as I said before often one can not fully appreciate one’s light without dark. Whoever or whatever, if true, is drawn toward that game, it is temporary.The wave cannot not be the ocean, no matter what its form.
And as Abraham says such experiences can only happen if one attracts them and somehow wants to play in that part of the sand box. There is no “God of dark”, only absence of light.
We have enough issues of us ordinary humans creating problems to worry about paranormal beings messing with us. And if certain theories are true that Governments entered into deals with alien races, it was part of consent and the plan anyway.
I got very sick emotionally. I believed demons were after me. They weren’t. It was my mind gone awry. My Guru at one stage specifically came into a dream and told me to cut it out. This is not to say entity attachment from guys who want to hang around doesn’t happen. But again, you have to attract it. So its an interesting theory but for me has no practical application for my life.
You either are the creator of your reality or you aren’t. There is no middle ground.
A thought provoking discussion and I for one appreciate the “grizzled mature souls” keeping us all grounded here. I also think 20-21st century years of experience probably count double-triple compared to earlier eras!
I do think the age filtering of soul age works: as a pre-pubescent I diligently attended sunday school and read my Bible, as a teen I fanatically competed in all kinds of sports, as a young adult I melodramatically pined over unrequited love for girls while listening to The Cure, then indeed around mid-late 30’s I gradually found myself thinking “what was all that drama about”.
Now I focus on a life where I can pursue my multiple interests with maximum freedom and minimum interference from others. I look for work with the “maximum pay per effort ratio” where I can apply street smarts rather than blood/sweat/tears. Power over others completely disinterests me, I have found power of myself to be a sufficient and rewarding challenge. I also hang out with those who naturally like me without feeling in any way compelled to ‘force’ anyone to like me who simply doesn’t want to. If a million like me, good. If a million people set-up an ‘anti-me’ blog site, equally good, go for it. I also feel innerly obligated to share my career knowledge with others.
Have occassional clashes with the Baby soul bureaucrats in the supposedly ‘Old’ Soul country I live in, but usually plan a few steps ahead to tie them up in their own knots, even though they are persistent little buggers (of Love). I think I am learning not to tease this particular group so much as they take eons to calm down. I have a Priest Essence so always ike to tease always for a higher moral purpose, but this only seems to stir up the proverbial hornets nest as the Babies try to whack me back with their own unstable version of morality. Unlike Young Souls who you can provoke, they say something over-confident but shallow, you show that to them, they calm down fast and with a little luck maybe learned something in the process. Young soul teasing is a 1-2 game. Baby soul teasing is more a 1-2…50, as they are far less vulnerable to facts/logic/truth/reason/ethics – such petty trivialties barely touch them at all.
Still I wonder if there is any country truly governed by Old Souls, aka Philosopher-kings in the jargon of Plato? I can’t put my finger on one. Even if you do have an Old ruler like Lincoln, you can be fairly share the bureuacracy underneath them is dominated by Baby Souls keeping things under their inherently fickle view of “order”.
I also think the Soul Age – personality development works in reverse though: have a big strong happy two year old son who cries when he sees other children fighting or hears low quality or sad music. But he is as equal and oppositely happy when he sees people singing/dancing or happy, quality music, so am sure he’s at least Mature level little Sage even though he’s just two, as it still shines through him.
What’s the origin of new souls?
Here’s my current understanding, Dwayne:
First, let’s drop the idea that some almighty being (God) decided one day to create a lot of lesser beings (souls), to see if they turned out good or evil.
The essence of all beings is one. There is nothing in existence that isn’t an integral part of that one.
There is only one essence, but it has infinite potential and can take infinitely different forms — different forms of energy, of matter, of consciousness.
A soul is a form of essence that is growing in consciousness.
Souls are not created individually, one at a time. Rather, they emerge en masse. First there emerges a single wave of energy and consciousness. Second, the wave “explodes” into many individual consciousnesses.
Just as light can exist both as a single wave of energy AND as many particles of light (Quantum Physics 101), so any single wave of consciousness can also exist as many individual particles of consciousness. That’s what souls are — a wave of consciousness that has taken the form of many particles or fragments.
Each soul exists in its own right, with its own unique identity. And yet at the same time, each soul remains an integral component of the one essence, completely unified with it, and is never separated from it.
In effect, each soul is a point at which essence has become conscious of itself, but doesn’t yet know it.
Souls are implicitly aware of this from the start, but they lack explicit understanding. This is what reincarnation gives them. The sense of separation that comes from inhabiting a physical body stimulates the soul’s consciousness to seek, question, experiment, explore, and make choices of its own volition. Each new incarnation offers a different slant on the illusion of separation and the choices it throws up.
The creation, or rather emergence, of souls is a continuous process, part of the eternal pulse of essence.
I would like to add a few things. Because we are human, we process linearly and in terms of our perception. Thus we think of Souls as individual, like us. But the Soul as expressed here may or most likely be a part of a larger consciousness that is also a “Soul” or “our soul”. Individuation exists in many realms but may be different than how we perceive it here.
Michael Newton said only a portion of the Soul takers incarnation. When I was with Van Paagh at Omega this question came up in this form. “what if I want to connect to my mother but she’s already reincarnated?” The answer came almost immediately from Spirit that what appears here is a slice or “sliver” of the total Soul. Michael says it is a collection of many souls (aspects) of a larger whole. Same with Abraham and other channels. They are a collection of consciousnesses.
So the “technology” of the Soul at levels beyond the physical may be larger and beyond our understanding and how they present to us is in a manner that we can fathom. My father comes to me as I knew him, but if we have had many lives together, it would not be helpful for him to come in the form from another incarnation. So we are multidimensional in ways we probably right now can’t undrrstand..
A friend of mine died and connected with a very close friend of hers. The one living one evening walked on the porch said “Elena” where are you?”. The one who died said “I am everywhere. It is incredible to feel so free.”
But Barry has outlined the basic process. We are emanations of light consciousness that are eternally one with the Source. Like the wave of the ocean or your hand to your body. The Soul is an expressive aspect of Unity Consciousness and the whole is contained fully in the part. Separation ultimately is an illusion.
Hi Barry & Ken
This is a question for Ken.
I have believd in reincarnation ever since I can remember, but only began to spiritually waken up late 2012. I still have a long way to go as most of the stuff on here goes waaayyyy over my head.
I have often wondered about my life prior to this one. As a medium, can you give me some clues? It seems full of karma, extreme highs and lows. Sometimes this life seems as a ‘rest’ from the one before. As a medium, I hope you can enlighten me.
I have seen other mediums but they just gloss over previous lives, and are vague in the extreme. I certainly do not like the idea of being regressed at all. It feels like it it something just out of sight, barely out of reach. It has nagged away at me for a long time. I have this urge I need to know. I don’t know why.
I would be very grateful for your kind help on this matter. Thank you.
Love to you, Barry, & your families.
xx
Helen,
This is not a forte of mine. But I will share this. I think trying to “know” about past lives is not always fruitful. Whatever karma you carried into this life is expressed in the circumstances, people, and events of your life. Most people on this path have come in wanting to expand, get closer to source and deal with issues of empathy and power.
Its one thing to regress and experience the prior source of a problem in this life, another to just intellectually know it. Often the knowledge is not true or clear and even if you know, it probably will not help. I got a reading from a channel that screwed with my head for weeks and I don’t even know if it was accurate and even so would have only been a small slice of a very big pie.
I would suggest that time is better spent in using the amazing tools that Spirit (God) is providing at this time to clear issues and raise your vibration and connection. If you want more insight into how all this works, I suggest Journey of Souls by Michael Newton and particularly Your Soul’s Plan by Robert Schwartz (both good deals used on Amazon.)
The issue now is you are here and dealing with what is in front of you is the goal. And if you really need to know, at the appropriate time usually that information will be provided.
After reading those books, especially the second, you will have more information to assess your life and understand the karmic pieces and lessons you wanted to work on this time around.
Be patient. Everything you need is being provided.
Hi Ken
Thank you very much for your quick reply. I have read your advice and I appreciate your words of wisdom. I am very glad I came across this website as it has helped me to understand things that were once an enigma.
Wishing you happiness & health.
x
You are welcome.
This is the best explanation of stages of reincarnation I’ve found, but does this mean that you can’t consciously speed up your soul evolution? In which case it’s a very disempowering view. Most spiritual teachings hold that through meditation you can increase your rate of soul growth. Because by witnessing in meditation your ordinary mind and self-sense you are freeing yourself from them, and thereby making it easier for new stages to emerge.
Or through loving-kindness meditation you are consciously increasing the number of beings you love, and thereby becoming less selfish (more mature). This should surely mean that if somebody practised meditation throughout their life, they should be able to evolve more quickly than normal. Do the Michael Teachings say that this is impossible or is there a teaching on it that I’ve missed?
Oliver,
From my experience (not sure what Michael teachings say) I have a few responses (and just got an intuitive hit so I will pass it on). First when you say “conscious” are you referring to the conscious mind? Because it is the least powerful instrument we have. The idea we can “will” our way to growth bypasses so many complex processes not just at the psychological-emotional level but at the Soul level as well. We must remember from the higher points, “who” is doing “what”. What is the interface of intention, movement and choice between “higher self” and personality ego consciousness?
The issue of a need to “speed up” may not be in the Soul’s interest. We are here for certain experiences and lessons. Why circumvent them? Do we go to a really good restaurant or a great vacation to rush through it? Or is the full depth of the experience what we want?
That said, I read in Joel Whitton’s “Life Between Life”, one of his clients began accelerating and moved so fast that he began bringing in elements of his future lives to his present one. So from that account I guess anything is possible.
Here’s the trick though. IMO. In anything you must come from the heart without any conscious “intention” to do this. Otherwise, the mind is involved and corrupts the process and the very thing you think you want is thwarted because it is not genuine but ego driven, no matter how “noble” the intentions.
It goes back to the Yogic idea of surrendering the fruits of one’s actions. Entrance into the heart of Source must be pure.
I have a friend who writes and speaks on spiritual topics. She often would say, “I look at people on stage at conferences and want to be there”. I replied” The only way you’ll get there is to attend to the present and whatever is meant for you will unfold. Otherwise its an ego trip””.
Its an unusual irony. One has to let go to get. Therefore my advice is to stay true to your *sincerity* in connection to “God”. Ram Das used to say, “There are those who ‘want to want God’ and there are those who ‘want God'”.
There is a difference. I would concentrate on deepening authentically your connection and communion. The rest will take care of itself. Then how “fast” you move won’t matter because you will be amazed at the journey.
We all evolve inexorably, bit by bit, through each life. If one chooses a life goal of Growth, then the life lessons to be learned will come thick and fast compared to lives with other goals. It is said that a life of Growth is like cramming three or four lives into one. But the result is just one incremental step up in evolution. We don’t skip steps in order to graduate faster. What would be the value in that?
Speeding up is never required; it’s just a matter of free choice. If and when a soul desires to evolve more quickly, then it is free to do so. And it is natural for many mature and old souls to consider consciouly supporting their spiritual evolution while incarnate, through meditation or whatever. But there is no necessity for any soul to do so.
In fact, one could evolve the whole way, from step 1 to the final step, without ever meditating or being “spiritual” while incarnate. Life provides the lessons anyway, and the soul assimilates the lessons between lives. Only from our human perspective does “speeding up” or “evolving more quickly” sound important. From the soul’s perspective, time and speed are just features of the physical realm, not our spiritual Home. Moreover, even if one can accelerate one’s evolution to the max, it isn’t rally feasible to jump and lessons or levels. We evolve by exploring and ultimately transcending all aspects of our being, both in ourselves and in relation to one another, step by step. The rate at which we evolve is, like everything else we do, our own free choice.
Just to piggy back. In Journey of Souls, “Growth Lives” are called “Accelerated lives”. I’m in one. Contrary to the nice view of lots more sweet meditation they are very intense and usually you get the kitchen sink thrown at you.
That’s affirmative!
I work in the medical field and I often wonder why so many people let themselves become so ill? Is there ever a time to where those souls don’t continuously go through that particular stage, I’m talking about people who live seemingly miserable lives? Is it possible to never advance to another stage?
Sickness is by no means a sign of failing to evolve. In fact, for those living an accelerated life, it is almost unavoidable. Some may have an “issue” which they are experiencing painfully in this life (eg, in the form of alcoholism), but often it is only by experiencing the painful consequences that they can can finally take responsibility for it. It’s all growth.
We tend to judge other people’s lives by our own preferences – we see a homeless person and assume something is terribly wrong, that they must be spiritually lost otherwise they would have a roof over their heads like us. But that person could be living exactly according to their own beautiful plan for evolution.
I want to see if this works before I write
I believe it has
Hello Ken and Barry, thank you for writing such an informative and thought provoking article. I have never seen it broken into steps like that, it’s been fun watching the back and forth kinda like a mini spirit soap opera, one I doubt I could have remained calm through. While reading the steps I tried to figure out where I would be but I don’t think it would be too accurate, if you ask people close to the questioner it would probably be more accurate but cause a few arguments. Then don’t we just start again? Wondering.
Most everything I agree with you guys on and it feels familiar, I grew up like so many kids in the U.S. Little church girl, my mother pushed it very hard she was Sunday school teacher etc. I was forbidden to talk to my Grandfather about anything spiritual, at the time he was part of the original group that began Scientology before it was Scientology but they had a big falling out because my Grandfather was against turning it into a religion. Not that this makes any difference but that is what I grew up with, reading Cayce and Lobsang, Ruth Mongomery and Wilkerson ( one of his friends) .
Now for the…. Wait for it… Wait for it big but… Ken, it threw me a bit when you began referring to the conscious mind as being weak and I don’t claim to have any spirit guides or remember any past lives, but recently information had the same feeling of always knowing something as when discovering reincarnation for the first time. Ha if that even made sense, regardless I would love to hear your thoughts on how the concepts in post materialistic sciences’s manifesto fits in? For me it was an aha moment where it feels like ghosts around the edges while tying so many things together. Thank you again for all your time and dedication
Lisa,
First of all if you were immersed in those things when you were young, then you came in pretty advanced because its a frequency thing and you wouldn’t have matched up if you weren’t already in resonance. No accidents. Law of Attraction and all that.
I don’t remember saying the conscious mind is weak. I do hold that the intellect which is the primary operating system for the conscious mind is our most limited system for apprehending reality. One can access the “Self” through intuition which is a higher functional apparatus and the conscious mind can be involved but in general people live through the intellect.
I’m not sure which “manifestos” of post materialistic science you are referring to. Their philosophical materialism and atheism or their recognition that the quantum world is starting to resemble Vedanta and Buddhism?
Tell me what you are referring to. The atheists are just ignorant imo hopelessly. They just have to play out their game.
This was the most interesting thing that I have read in a long time. I was brought up in a fairly fundamental, Christian believing family. I am in the early stages of finding myself slowly walking away from the fundamental scene and finding myself being more open to learning about other views on the reality of truth. I have a question in relation to the age of our souls: I am just wondering why my other family members are far more compassionate and loving people in general than I am and yet they are the ones who are caught up in fundamentalism? If I am finding myself being drawn away from fundamentalism and being drawn instead to the things being shared in this article, should there be some kind of correlation in my growth in realtion to compassion and love etc….or not necessarily? I want to help my family see further outside the box, but who am I to say anything to them when they have more important things down pat than me?
So, I guess I’m just curious if I am an older soul than any of my family members. I’m 31 years old now and have started to experience quite a lot of positive change and growth over the past few years, where as my family members haven’t appeared to have changed so much, but as I stated above, they were already quite loving and compassionate people.
Ben,
Its very hard to offer an opinion or perspective from generalities. You say they are “more compassionate than you”. What does that look like? How does it manifest? Are you being hard on yourself?
Emotional patterns arise often from karmic circumstance. Sometimes innate temperament. Are you hostile, unforgiving, irritable, self centered? Were you wounded when young through some family or circumstantial experience? The list goes on.
People can be *personally* generous while being developmentally younger. One key is are your family “compassionate” to those truly different. People tend to be kind to those “in the tribe” but can be very challenging to the “other”. The South is famous for personal hospitality and warmth, but to a point. Those outside the “circle” (minorities, gays. “liberals”) do not qualify. Thus you can find extraordinary warmth to family and vicious societal norms, as was the South pre 1960’s.
I don’t think there is a rule or correlation to Soul Age and personal kindness. I see many truly young Souls on TV who display great generosity . One good example is Danny Koker, the owner of “Count’s Customs” on Counting Cars on History. Koker to me is quintessential young soul. But he has a very kind heart and often will go out of his way to help a client and cares deeply about the quality of his work and often extends himself for those with a personal cause.
I would have to know more to comment more completely.
Hi Ben
You say your family are “caught up” in fundamentalism. You could be totally right in your choice of words, though as Ken points out, without knowing more it’s not easy to assess the situation from “out here”. It’s clear that breaking free from the fundamentalist mindset/culture is important for you, as I’m sure it would be for me if I were in your shoes. That doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone of a similar soul age would act the same way, however.
If your goal for this life is Growth, which I suspect it is given your attraction to learning and personal change, then you will be driven to expand your sense of truth and reject whatever doesn’t fit. On the other hand, the family members you mention could have a goal of Acceptance, which makes showing greater love/compassion more of a priority than finding greater truth/meaning.
Religion is often a supportive “space” for the development and expression of Acceptance (especially those varieties of religion that emphasise love-thy-neighbour). So while it’s true that committed fundamentalists are usually Baby going-on-Young souls, it can also be the case that older souls who are pursuing Acceptance rather than Growth simply join in with what’s in their vicinity, rather than make an issue out of it. It’s a different commitment: inter-personal harmony rather than intra-personal congruity.
A phrase that comes to my mind is: “if it ain’t broken, don’t try to fix it.”
I even wonder if perhaps your current life challenge/lesson is to do with choosing change for yourself and yourself alone — accepting the validity of choices made by others which you yourself wouldn’t make.
Food for thought… 🙂
Thank you very much for this article, I read all of Michael Newton’s books and this makes a lot of sense for me. How did you find out you are mature soul? So after you pass all steps, you are free soul and would not re encarnate again? Still not understanding the final goal… would you kindly explain in simple terms what is there for our souls after we have completed your learning journey and finished all stages of learning? Do we unite with God, if there is a God? Do you think Jesus was a mature soul living the final stage? I don’t recall souls “seeing” God and Jesus in MNs studies… Sorry so many questions. Regards, Ana.
If one is honest you can kind of find yourself on the spectrum. What are your goals, your temperament, your deepest impulses? Do you empathize with others, are you “out of the conventional box” spiritually, do you feel open to higher perspectives? Those are mature Soul attributes. Look at a show like “Shark Tank” It is almost purely Young Soul Energy. Are you like that or are the values of accumulation and “recognition”behind you?
“Freedom” is a tricky word in the context of this matrix. Because it encourages linear thinking. Therefore “freedom”: lies “there” somewhere. But freedom is our inner process as the issue of “here” and “there”, “then” and “now” is an illusion. There is only “now” and when the future comes it will still be “now”. So development has to happen within the incarnation and within self here and now and is a revelatory process.
Uniting with “God’ is also a process since it is “re-uniting” with that which you already are. This is called “awakening” or “remembering”. Since who or what we are is infinite, the idea we can catalog what that experience may be “down the road” is kind of fruitless as it is beyond the mind’s conception. There apparently are realms beyond the physical so there is expansion beyond this experience but my life has taught me if one concentrates on the present and cultivates one’s connection to one’s inner Source (aka “God”), things tend to take care of themself.
So the “final goal’ actually is whatever you are doing right now. For there is no other authentic moment to be in. Just attend to that. Deepen and you will see how Grace is present in everything. It does get quite remarkable and then this other stuff doesn’t matter.
Jesus was an old soul, not mature.
What are “MN” studies?
Michael Newton presumably.
Hi Ana
Glad you like the article. Answers to most of your questions are readily available all over the website, but in a nutshell:-
Q: “How did you find out you are mature soul?”
I got a personal reading from a Michael channel, Sarah Chambers (RIP), c.1998. I’m going to put all my Michael readings up on the website soon, but for now here’s a relevant sample:
So, I am said to be a 5th-level Mature soul, and it seems to fit well both my perceptual strengths/weakness and my life’s path.
Q: “So after you pass all steps, you are free soul and would not reincarnate again?”
Who says you are not a free soul before then? Freedom isn’t defined by choosing not to reincarnate. Freedom is intrinsic to your essential nature, and part of the journey of reincarnation is finding this out through experience. You stop reincarnating when it no longer serves you.
Q: “Still not understanding the final goal… would you kindly explain in simple terms what is there for our souls after we have completed your learning journey and finished all stages of learning?”
The absolute joy of being yourself, and knowing fully what that means, knowing that “little you” and “big God” were one and the same being, all this time. You won’t have full connection with the total knowing of that right after reincarnating, just a loss of the illusion of being completely unconnected from that. After reincarnating, you are fully aware of yourself as an awesome being of love and light, integral to the whole fabric of creation, yet still not quite over the subject/object split. In other words, you still perceive something higher than you.
Q: “Do we unite with God, if there is a God?”
In a sense, we never separated from the universal source of all-that-is, God if you want to use that term. So there is no need to “unite” with it / him / her except within our consciousness, which as yet perceives a difference.
Q: “Do you think Jesus was a mature soul living the final stage?”
Jesus was an Old soul, transcendent. In other words, having already finished the reincarnational cycles, he voluntarily returned. In adulthood he represented a level of consciousness as described above. But he then went further and “united with God” i.e. became the embodiment of divine love / consciousness some time around age 30. In other words, an Avatar.
Thank you for replying to my questions! By the way about “MN studies” I was referring to Michael Newton’s work. 🙂
In most ND experiences and in MN, Souls usually do not see the religious icons or “trappings (environment” that corresponds to religious thought. There is a little controversy around this as some suggest the Souk at first entrance “creates” the reality it is familiar with, then gradually sheds it as greater truth becomes apparent.
My understanding of the evidence is this might depend on Soul Age but in general religious figures do not appear consistently. If they do it is because there is a need. It seems “God” will appear in whatever the form the individual requires.
Most recall “seeing-experiencing” God as light. A beautiful, loving, all knowing, all powerful, encompassing light. So full of warmth and depth one does not want to leave it.
this is just exausting. i just cant imagine having to come back as another personality. all i want to do now is sleep. just trying to figure out how to find joy in anything is challenging.life is scary and very depressing. I don’t feel safe in this world at all. I just don’t want to be afraid anymore.
I’m sorry you are going through a lot of pain and exhaustion. When one feels like this, it is nearly impossible to conceive that one chose it. As one who experienced an horrific nervous breakdown in my 30’s and is still dealing with one of the roughest and most challenging years of the last 25. I can commiserate.
If you found your way here, I think there must be some spark in you that relates on some level to this and to higher truth. I don’t think the conceptual construct will serve that much as the personality self is feeling overwhelmed.
I always suggest the basics. We must be and begin where we are at. What kind of internal and external supports are you giving yourself? Support groups, therapy, the spiritual company of others.
Internally I have found that when one asks of “Source” for help, help comes. The next step, not the entire enchilada. There was a Grey’s Anatomy recently where April had a baby but it was born with severe defects and died within the hour. She was beyond devastated and deeply questioned her faith in God. (she had been brought up Evangelical.) Her husband, an atheist, went to the chapel, and asked deeply “just show up for her.” Later, soon after, April (a doctor). encounters a young woman whose husband has just died because a driver ran into them. The woman talks about all the things they were going to do and near hysteria, laments none of them now can happen. April realizes as sad as her plight is, she still has her wonderful husband, friends, her career. The encounter enlightens her.
This is how the prayer was answered. She got what she needed. Not the “miracle” she wanted.
There is an old African story about a woman who has lost her husband, is beside herself, and goes to the wisest person in the village for help. She says ” Go to a house where death has not entered, then come back”. But there is no house that has not experienced the loss and pain of death. She comes back with the wisdom she needed to deal with her grief.
I don’t want to minimize in any way your deep pain. But it is possible, using the lens of this philosophy, that this life may be meant to push you into a corner where you have to reach out in some fashion for a more meaningful connection to God, your Source, and that begins by asking for help.
Forget about joy for the moment. On the Abraham-Hicks scale you need hope and stability. Joy will come later. Ask for hope and help.
If the world seems scary because of the news, cut it out. Each life is not “linked” in terms of cause and effect to any other randomly. We are all self determining organisms. Our karma and Soul needs, created by us, determine our circumstances. I would suggest not worrying about the next life. You have put a lot on your plate in this one apparently. And that is what you, as a Soul, seem to have come to deal with.
You might look at “Your Soul’s Plan” by Robert Schwartz. He looks at 10 lives that are extremely challenging and demonstrates the reason behind each one. It might help.
Hi Barry
I’ve just stumbled across this article while researching soul ages. I’m not usually one to leave comments but after reading some of the discussions here I thought I would. I’m not after advice just your enlightened opinion or anyone elses.
A quick background for what led me here.
Lately I’ve been thinking more and more about how I can influence the world and help humanity take the next step in evolution. I’m not a religious believer and not as spirtual as a lot of people here. I have a very open mind, take all things in and usually think deeply within for answers and direction. On my quest for knowledge I came across a soul age article similar to yours but less detail. I read it and couldn’t decide what age I was. I asked my partner of over 10 years to have a read and tell me what she thinks my soul age is. She said definitely old, because I’m very calm, often detached in my own world, hardly excited over anything, very empathetic and recently lost complete interest in my successful career. She couldn’t believe she finally had an answer to these issues that were bothring her. My partnerrfits the mature category to a t.
So it made me think, yes I am an old soul but i also want to help the world evolve which isn’t really an old soul characteristic. Which also made me question the old soul.. Why would the old soul want to live a life detatched from others when they have the most wisdom to share. I’ve seen others write that one is all, so focusing on yourself is focusing on others. This doesn’t sound empathetic much to me. I don’t know if reincarnation is real, if there’s different spiritual levels, different dimensions etc. There could be, i don’t know. The one thing I whole heartedly belive in is conciousness and that it’s all connected and that there’s different levels and dimensions to it. And I wonder if it has been put in a form that people can relate to and study and follow with michaels teachings, a bit like religion. Again I don’t know. And I don’t think it’s important. We are living this life now, what does the next life matter at this stage, why not focus on now.
So this is where I want your opinion.
Do you belive anybody could be an old soul? What I mean by this is, do you need to study and practice spirituality or are people capable of being the oldest souls without knowledge of spiritual teachings? Say for instance an old soul was reincarnated to a life of complete solitude with no one to interect with. How could they reach a point of wisdom where they can reflect on the souls?
Peter. Where did you get the idea that, “Why would the old soul want to live a life detatched from others when they have the most wisdom to share ?” The capsule description says, **”Their focus is on true self-expression and fulfillment, _consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is_” and “Late-stage old souls often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion.”
The issue of detachment is not detachment from others but “untroubled and stable, unattached to **social structures and cultural expectations**, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others.”
In other words the Old Soul can be deeply in the world but not of it, and less affected by conventional thinking and currents.
You asked,”he one thing I whole heartedly belive in is conciousness and that it’s all connected and that there’s different levels and dimensions to it. And I wonder if it has been put in a form that people can relate to and study and follow with Michaels teachings, a bit like religion.”
Well yes. In about a thousand teachings, teachers and books in the last 50 years. Its all, one wave length of knowledge that expresses itself uniquely through different people, but imo opinion we have seen the birth of a new, more mature religion that is spiritually based on experience with inner Divinity, not belief systems. So whether its Abraham- Hicks, A Course in Miracles, Conversations with God or hundreds of other expressions, its been going on for a long time now.
Your last question, yes. Soul age has no relationship ultimately to environment. You come in at the level you’re at. The circumstances you choose to engage with life, learn, grow and the experiences you need for that contribute to whatever acceleration or soul evolution you intend or service you wish to share, but foundationally you are at the frequency you are before you incarnate.
This is why so many great Masters Self Realize without any study or conscious intention.
Hi Ken,
Thanks for your response. After reading the discussions here and seeing the level of consciousness, this is the kind of response I thought I would receive and hoped for.
I got the wrong idea about the old soul from another source which reads very closely to yours. But like you pointed out “Late-stage old souls often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion.” This resonates with me. I also believe that old souls sometimes need to be reminded of the qualities found in the younger souls and let it become apart of them. Old souls need to bring stability to these qualities and fully embrace “all that is” in its purest form.
Now the following is just my opinion and I realize that parts of what I say or all of what I say may be untrue or 100% true. This is just my perspective at this point in time and I expect it to change as I continue to evolve.
I still don’t know about reincarnation and soul age evolution. It certainly makes sense and explains a lot. When I look within, I feel that this soul evolution could all happen in one life. When I look outwards this idea seems very unlikely. It must be very rare for a human to evolve to this level of consciousness within one life. I believe happiness can’t be multiplied with money or material gain but greed can be. So if greed can be multiplied then this explains the natural evolution of humanity. However love and happiness is stronger than greed. Love and consciousness can connect to one’s soul and one’s true self and erase one’s greed. So I think there is another level of consciousness that can be passed down, the only problem being that humans as a majority have been focused on the wrong things.
You say “we have seen the birth of a new, more mature religion that is spiritually based on experience with inner Divinity, not belief systems”. I also see this but don’t like to refer to it as religion or spirituality based on experience with inner divinity. I think it’s purely consciousness, but we struggle to fully understand what this means so we give it reason and explanation. And because its a journey we need to describe it so others will understand. And maybe we do need to describe it for now, but not forever.
If people focus on the right things this will create a shift in consciousness – the next step in evolution for humanity. This has started and who knows how long it will take. Maybe the universe consciousness is in the early stages of mature. Instead of reincarnation maybe the next life is simply the next generation. What humans do best is learn. We don’t have to make the same technological discoveries every generation, these are passed down. Our kids take off from where we left off. Why not the same for consciousness. Maybe we are still clinging to the idea of life after death and the fear of nothing. I don’t really believe this, as I have experienced things through my life that suggest otherwise. Or maybe it is another dimension or parallel universe. I still don’t understand everything, so I leave it open as a possibility.
Anyway, I’m still trying to figure out all this and how to use it to help humans think freely and for themselves. For human to listen to their gut, their emotions and their head as one. I strongly doubt that people that follow a religion 100% believe every aspect of it with their head, gut and heart. They have been taught to think a certain way by society. These shackles of society need to be broken. I haven’t studied religion a whole lot, I’ve read parts of the bible and parts of the quran and had discussions with believers and I always find holes. And I can tell these beleivers don’t 100% believe it with their whole consciousness. But they still accept it as whole. Personally I get very little out of any of it. I have certainly got more out of teachings like this than any other teachings, but I get the most from within.
Until reading this article I never really understood why I was different to all others. I found it easier to understand others than myself. But your descriptions have brought clarity to my soul/nature/wisdom/personality, what ever you want to call it. Another thought I’ve had is that people have different natures. These natures could be similar to your soul ages. So 2 people can be given the same wisdom (like reading this article), but rarely will 2 people have the same response or use this wisdom in the same way. So your soul or personality is a combination of your nature and the wisdom you have experienced.
That’s enough for now, but I am enjoying discussing this with you. You seem flexible in your approach to all this, so I look forward to your response.
Peter,
Just my thoughts and experience. “Still don’t know about reincarnation and soul age evolution. It certainly makes sense and explains a lot. When I look within, I feel that this soul evolution could all happen in one life.”
I’ll be firm here because I was “raised” in an Eastern tradition by a great Yogic Master, have had extraordinary depth and diversity of experiences with channeling and my own intuition and I teach on this stuff. This is for you to come to for your own decision but I will relay from this side it is totally non negotiable. To not understand reincarnation is to miss one of the central aspects of existence in the physical and due to the vastness of consciousness and the human (and other creature’s) existence, the idea that one could gain this knowledge or growth in one life is flat out impossible.
There are several vectors of experience, from mystics to psychics, to NDE’s etc that all point to the reality of both of these. (Reincarnation and Soul evolution.) Its just the way it is. Its not a belief to “assuage the fear of death”.)
I agree with you that whether you call what’s happening a “religion” or not is semantics. Its still happening.
I would suggest reading Journey of Souls by Michael Newton. It is a classic in this field. and is very inexpensive on Amazon. (About $6 in good used condition). Also Brian Weiss has done very good work as a pioneer in past life studies. Many Lives, Many Masters and Through Time Into Healing are powerful works.
Lastly, life on Earth is one human like species in one stage of development. There are far more advanced intelligences in this place and they are helping us.
Take care.
Thanks for the book suggestion Ken, I’ll definitely give it a read.
I appreciate and respect you sharing your thoughts and experience. I have gained knowledge from The Michael Teaching and the discussions here. I would like to discuss spirituality further with you and others like you but I feel this is not the forum for it. As I piece together the puzzle of consciousness and its history in human evolution and its potential future in human evolution, I realise that everything truly is connected and humans are going through their natural evolution. And that humans create their own evolution. Or should I say consciousness creates it’s own evolution.
Humans/consciousness do this by putting limits and boundaries up so it can focus it growth where it is needed most. Beings of a higher spiritual level can see the barriers and go beyond them because they are ready.
I think the reason for this new movement is the collective consciousness here on earth is slowly working together realising that we have reached our maximum growth potential with our current ways and understanding of consciousness (barriers).
I really could go on and on, which is why it’s not really the forum for it. I’ll continue to compile my thoughts and expand my knowledge of the current world and the people/consciousness in it.
I sometimes find myself asking – is this path I’m on important, does it really matter if I’m at peace with who I am? The answer is always yes it is worth it, because some people exploit the natural human traits. And a lot of these people are the ones in power. But this is all natural human behavior at our current level of evolution, so there is no point getting angry about it.
Ps.
I’ve enjoyed this article and all the comments. Thanks for sharing
Amazing article thank you. I was up researching quality/ traits of the soul and came across you article about the 7 qualities of a soul. Im a priest type 6 with a goal of growth, mode of passion, attitude of realism, and chief feature of impatience. I believe that i am at my mature soul stage level 2-3 having a very hard time pinpointing it. I have a Question, My father passed away last year in november for 6 months i felt my world stopped, i just stopped living… well after the 6 months till now I’ve noticed and other have noticed my maturity level, like I’ve grown so much as a soul is the past 8 months that makes my evolution cycle questionable. Is is possible to leap steps due to tragic incidents??
In a nutshell, yes. Not only are there “accelerated lives” (lives of challenge and difficulty), there are accelerated events. This is my opinion, being in one. Souls choose these experiences to push their growth. An accelerated life can feel like many in one. So you can come in at level II and leave at level V or VI. It depends on each person. Its the point for many, actually. Its not that you “leap” stages, its that you move through them more quickly.
Michael Newton had a case where a man was moving so quickly he out paced all his intentions of this life and started bringing in intentions for future lives.
Not leap steps exactly. What happens is that in each lifetime we “retrace” all previous steps, starting from infant soul level 1 on the day we are born. It’s not that the soul itself “regresses” to that level, but simply that our new body-mind-personality isn’t equipped to manifest a higher level until we (the soul) are able to do so consciously once we have become acclimatised to the new setup.
So the first few decades of life are spent retracing the entire journey so far as we become acquainted with
1 – the new body and environment (infant levels),
2 – the current family and societal roles/rules (baby levels),
3 – the opportunities for self-reliance and independence that our present location & culture presents (young levels)…
Only then will the authentic self seek to manifest (mature levels).
Whatever our soul age, we will level out the manifestation of it around age 35 or so.
This is simply the process of psychological maturation as psychologists look at it, but from a soul perspective it’s about the soul bringing more and more of its true consciousness into the “game”.
The “level out” process for mature souls can be especially hard because it means ditching any aspects of personality or relationships that are not authentic (either that, or deciding to endure the conflict of remaining inauthentic). This is what Jung referred to as individuation.
The path of maturation in each life is not necessarily a straight line from 0 to 35. Every so often there are likely to flat bits and then sudden jumps. What you have experienced since your father’s passing is probably one of those – your soul consciousness or essence feeling the need or finding ways to express more of its true level in a relatively short span of time, perhaps by shedding some aspect of your identity that was false or inauthentic.
Does that have any resonance for you?
Yes, thank you. It makes more sense to me, I believe now that my soul chose this experience to grow. I was retracing all my steps and it could be just perfect timing, the right age and my soul consciousness felt the need to express its true self by shedding some aspects of my identity that were in authentic. I agree with this. Soul development. I notice that my soul picks up on things rather quickly now. I don’t feel rushed, everything seems to fit into place. Its other people that make me feel I’m living life ahead of myself, they find it rather strange for someone at my age to be so “collected”. The development I’ve made in the past 8 months has been more noticeable than any development I’ve made over my 25 (physical) years but it feels right, In the past I’ve felt out of place because of my age, I’ve always been more mature than my age group.
So now, I finally feel connected, and like a flower bud that opens up just enough for you to see the color of its petals, that is me right now. 🙂
very intresting article/topic when i checked the 35steps of the soul my inner voice told me im on stage 28 almost old soul ,ever since i did reiki 1 and 2 training i grew in many ways,i wonder what soul age neale donald walsch is cos his books and videos are really eye opening materials just as thise cool website is 🙂 i hope your viral chest pain is gone now barry, sounds painfull greetings 🙂
I met NDW. He did a presentation for a church I went to about 15 years ago at a local high school. We had about 800 people there. At the time he was pretty well known for being difficult emotionally. Not easy to deal with. (Already was famous). Often people’s gifts are not thew sole indicator of souls age. Since he was in the “public sharing space” (mass teaching) my guess would be late mature to early old.
your right i think ken kaplan, meby he is a mature soul meby he isnt i dont know 😉 he did had alot young soul traits before he started writing letters to god thats while ago 🙂 but his story whas touching neither the less mm..
Ok I am interested in Growth, life has more or less forced me to seek it lol, but I see people here talking about accelerated growth or speeding up the evolution of the soul. Most of what Im reading is that one can only jump one level in a lifetime at the very most. But what about enlightenment stories like per say Eckhart Tolle who had went from deep suffering to instant enlightenment, or the lesser known story of Lester Levenson, creator of the Release Technique who in one lifetime (months) let go of all thoughts/feelings and achieved enlightenment. Does this mean that massive growth is possible, from say Infant to Youth etc, or if it is even possible, does it go against the grain of how a soul is supposed to evolve and result in a “fallen angel” as some call those who have fell from grace. Thanks in advance.
Chris
This is my opinion based on years of experience so take it for what you will. These kinds of cases, especially with Gurus or teachers, are fairly common. My Guru became instantly actualized at age 6. If you read Autobiography of a Yogi, Lahiri Mahasaya jumped from “ordinary consciousness” to enlightenment in about two weeks.
So what is going on? I think your supposition of “massive soul growth” is a misperception. People like Eckhart Tolle did not “leap through stages”. They came in at the advanced level they display once the “costume” is taken off.
Truly Enlightened people come in at the highest or higher stages. They take on temporarily what appears to be “normal” consciousness or appearance. But that is just the facade. The real Soul-self is the enlightened one.
Thus there is no leap,or astonishingly rapid growth as it appears outwardly. This is true for most of us. We come in at a basic frequency. I think avenues are open to us to accelerate, how much accurately I can’t say but I think one can move two , possibly more (not much more) within a larger arc. I believe I came in around level 4 mature and now might be level 6 mature. Something like that.
But to jump from let’s say Young 4 to Old 5? Nope. Just doesn’t work that way.
In essence the system could not handle such a massive frequency shift. The energetics are quite powerful, but different for all stages. That’s why fundamentalists freak out over progressives. They can’t handle the frequency difference. Look at what’s going on in Indiana. They are baby souls and they really don’t understand what they are doing. The criticism bewilders them.
And I think that’s true in general.
Kindergartners don’t jump to high school or college. Their entire capacity takes time to set up. Same with the Soul.
I do think one can regress. How far I do not know. The Universe is a pretty kind place beyond the Maya. Its not really interested in punishment but correction.
As far as I am aware, there are several possibilities:
1. Those who become truly enlightened happen to be 7th level Old anyway.
2. At any level, one can be “enlightened” in the sense of being aware enough not to suffer and not be identified with the personality. (I had a 2-month period of that last year thanks to a kundalini episode.)
3. One can have some kind of clear awakening – an enlightenment experience – and yet still continue to live with their limited perceptions of one’s soul age.
I once asked Michael a similar question (via a channel) and got quite a full response. Here is the transcript:
BARRY: Is it really possible to achieve ‘liberation in this lifetime’ as a lot of teachers advocate? Such teachers seem to be suggesting that through meditation and great surrender it is possible to transcend illusion once and for all and, hence presumably, the need to reincarnate, regardless of one’s Cycle/Level. After all, Truth is always available. Is it possible, then, to devote oneself to achieving early enlightenment and ‘exit’ the cycles at any time, or are we tied to them all for a full round? In other words, can one experience liberation from illusion sufficient in one lifetime to obviate the need for further incarnations? If not, and we are tied to one-level-at-a-time reincarnation, doesn’t that make the search for enlightenment futile in all but the final level?
MICHAEL: This spiritual ‘get-rich-quick’ philosophy is a direct result of fear within a given lifetime, and those teaching it or drawn to it are most likely struggling with Impatience or Martyrdom. We are not condemning nor condoning this path; we are merely stating its source and addressing its assumptions as we perceive it, and as requested.
We personally have not seen an essence or entity who has progressed through the stages of exploration of a planet and its sentient species, begun their incarnational cycles, then found themselves bothered by the illusions of the physical plane and in need of escape. We specifically use the word escape since you refer to incarnating as something to be bound to. There have been entities who have ‘changed their mind’, so to speak, and left physical existence. Though this occurrence is extremely rare, we assure you it is not as a result of enlightenment, but is chosen consciously and with great clarity.
There is no search for enlightenment from an essence or entity perspective, only a search for experience and creativity. To assume there is an end result to your efforts to attain enlightenment is highly misleading and, ironically, an illusion. The false personality, though, may choose this philosophy of liberation in a lifetime in hopes of avoiding or finding respite from the life it has created, assuming it is a ‘trap’ that has been imposed.
The nature of physical experience and the physical plane itself requires a sort of playful approach to the illusions you create, much like going to the movies and losing yourself in the drama, horror, passion, excitement, etc. It is just as rare for you, in physical form, to see a person stand up in the middle of a movie and spout out that the movie might just end if you would only realize that it is not real. People do not mill in the aisles confused. In this same vein, your essence knows full well the thrill of life gained by submerging into physical existence, and most choose to ‘remain seated’. Even in the worst of ‘movies’, most will choose to ‘see how it ends’. To take the analogy further, those who do leave the theatre usually do so in reaction to far more constricting and ‘negative’ feelings like disappointment, boredom, etc.; never as a result of ‘enlightenment’ or joy. In fact, the latter would tend to root the person further into the moment (‘movie’) through greater awareness and passionate appreciation.
It is the nature of the human species (and sentience in general) to make complexities out of something as simple and within reach as Truth. This is not a judgement, simply an observation evident on many levels. While it is true that older souls do tend toward a spiritual pursuit, and find the physical plane ‘not what it used to be’, there are no standardized markers to denote who progresses and how quickly.
You choose everything. You create everything. There are no exceptions.
We suggest to those interested in this path of ‘liberation’ to quite seriously consider that it is your life conditions of which you seek to be free, not the life experience. Allow yourself to observe your life, accepting current creations as valid mirrors of possible discontent, and use these as a reference for creating a ‘better’, more empowering future. We do not wish to imply that to ‘want out’ is not a valid choice and valuable in itself as experience. What we do wish to convey is that this philosophy may be more indicative of a need to actually face the ‘truth’ of your life as your source of ‘enlightenment’, and to start there as your ‘path’.
There is much to be said about this topic and even more to be suggested as considerations, but we feel this answers the general question despite its many facets. In short: You can ‘leave’ if you want to, but the ‘search’ does not end there.
Great, great, great answer. Fabulous. So in tune with a channel I have worked with, Michal, for 7 years. Beautifully put from the higher perspective. Here is Yogananda in the same vein on the “movie theme”.
http://www.theself.com/lifeisadream_yogananda.cfm
He ends his chapter from his Autobiography ( a different writing) on “The Law of Miracles” thus:
” In 1915, shortly after I had entered the Swami Order, I witnessed a vision of violent contrasts. In it the relativity of human consciousness was vividly established; I clearly perceived the unity of the Eternal Light behind the painful dualities of maya. The vision descended on me as I sat one morning in my little attic room in Father’s Gurpar Road home. For months World War I had been raging in Europe; I reflected sadly on the vast toll of death.
As I closed my eyes in meditation, my consciousness was suddenly transferred to the body of a captain in command of a battleship. The thunder of guns split the air as shots were exchanged between shore batteries and the ship’s cannons. A huge shell hit the powder magazine and tore my ship asunder. I jumped into the water, together with the few sailors who had survived the explosion.
Heart pounding, I reached the shore safely. But alas! a stray bullet ended its furious flight in my chest. I fell groaning to the ground. My whole body was paralyzed, yet I was aware of possessing it as one is conscious of a leg gone to sleep.
“At last the mysterious footstep of Death has caught up with me,” I thought. With a final sigh, I was about to sink into unconsciousness when lo! I found myself seated in the lotus posture in my Gurpar Road room.
Hysterical tears poured forth as I joyfully stroked and pinched my regained possessiona body free from any bullet hole in the breast. I rocked to and fro, inhaling and exhaling to assure myself that I was alive. Amidst these self-congratulations, again I found my consciousness transferred to the captain’s dead body by the gory shore. Utter confusion of mind came upon me.
“Lord,” I prayed, “am I dead or alive?”
A dazzling play of light filled the whole horizon. A soft rumbling vibration formed itself into words:
“What has life or death to do with Light? In the image of My Light I have made you. The relativities of life and death belong to the cosmic dream. Behold your dreamless being! Awake, my child, awake!”
As steps in man’s awakening, the Lord inspires scientists to discover, at the right time and place, the secrets of His creation. Many modern discoveries help men to apprehend the cosmos as a varied expression of one powerlight, guided by divine intelligence. The wonders of the motion picture, of radio, of television, of radar, of the photo-electric cellthe all-seeing “electric eye,” of atomic energies, are all based on the electromagnetic phenomenon of light.
The motion picture art can portray any miracle. From the impressive visual standpoint, no marvel is barred to trick photography. A man’s transparent astral body can be seen rising from his gross physical form, he can walk on the water, resurrect the dead, reverse the natural sequence of developments, and play havoc with time and space. Assembling the light images as he pleases, the photographer achieves optical wonders which a true master produces with actual light rays.
The lifelike images of the motion picture illustrate many truths concerning creation. The Cosmic Director has written His own plays, and assembled the tremendous casts for the pageant of the centuries. From the dark booth of eternity, He pours His creative beam through the films of successive ages, and the pictures are thrown on the screen of space. Just as the motion-picture images appear to be real, but are only combinations of light and shade, so is the universal variety a delusive seeming. The planetary spheres, with their countless forms of life, are naught but figures in a cosmic motion picture, temporarily true to five sense perceptions as the scenes are cast on the screen of man’s consciousness by the infinite creative beam.
A cinema audience can look up and see that all screen images are appearing through the instrumentality of one imageless beam of light. The colorful universal drama is similarly issuing from the single white light of a Cosmic Source. With inconceivable ingenuity God is staging an entertainment for His human children, making them actors as well as audience in His planetary theater.
One day I entered a motion picture house to view a newsreel of the European battlefields. World War I was still being waged in the West; the newsreel recorded the carnage with such realism that I left the theater with a troubled heart.
“Lord,” I prayed, “why dost Thou permit such suffering?”
To my intense surprise, an instant answer came in the form of a vision of the actual European battlefields. The horror of the struggle, filled with the dead and dying, far surpassed in ferocity any representation of the newsreel.
“Look intently!” A gentle voice spoke to my inner consciousness. “You will see that these scenes now being enacted in France are nothing but a play of chiaroscuro. They are the cosmic motion picture, as real and as unreal as the theater newsreel you have just seena play within a play.”
My heart was still not comforted. The divine voice went on: “Creation is light and shadow both, else no picture is possible. The good and evil of maya must ever alternate in supremacy. If joy were ceaseless here in this world, would man ever seek another? Without suffering he scarcely cares to recall that he has forsaken his eternal home. Pain is a prod to remembrance. The way of escape is through wisdom! The tragedy of death is unreal; those who shudder at it are like an ignorant actor who dies of fright on the stage when nothing more is fired at him than a blank cartridge. My sons are the children of light; they will not sleep forever in delusion.”
Although I had read scriptural accounts of maya, they had not given me the deep insight that came with the personal visions and their accompanying words of consolation. One’s values are profoundly changed when he is finally convinced that creation is only a vast motion picture, and that not in it, but beyond it, lies his own reality.
As I finished writing this chapter, I sat on my bed in the lotus posture. My room was dimly lit by two shaded lamps. Lifting my gaze, I noticed that the ceiling was dotted with small mustard-colored lights, scintillating and quivering with a radiumlike luster. Myriads of pencilled rays, like sheets of rain, gathered into a transparent shaft and poured silently upon me.
At once my physical body lost its grossness and became metamorphosed into astral texture. I felt a floating sensation as, barely touching the bed, the weightless body shifted slightly and alternately to left and right. I looked around the room; the furniture and walls were as usual, but the little mass of light had so multiplied that the ceiling was invisible. I was wonder-struck.
“This is the cosmic motion picture mechanism.” A voice spoke as though from within the light. “Shedding its beam on the white screen of your bed sheets, it is producing the picture of your body. Behold, your form is nothing but light!”
I gazed at my arms and moved them back and forth, yet could not feel their weight. An ecstatic joy overwhelmed me. This cosmic stem of light, blossoming as my body, seemed a divine replica of the light beams streaming out of the projection booth in a cinema house and manifesting as pictures on the screen.
For a long time I experienced this motion picture of my body in the dimly lighted theater of my own bedroom. Despite the many visions I have had, none was ever more singular. As my illusion of a solid body was completely dissipated, and my realization deepened that the essence of all objects is light, I looked up to the throbbing stream of lifetrons and spoke entreatingly.
“Divine Light, please withdraw this, my humble bodily picture, into Thyself, even as Elijah was drawn up to heaven by a flame.”
This prayer was evidently startling; the beam disappeared. My body resumed its normal weight and sank on the bed; the swarm of dazzling ceiling lights flickered and vanished. My time to leave this earth had apparently not arrived.
“Besides,” I thought philosophically, “the prophet Elijah might well be displeased at my presumption!”
So in the case that someone is on the 7th level of old soul what happens/ where do they go after they die that lifetime? Or is this an unknown subject?
Barry can speak more to this. There are two more stages beyond the physical in the higher vibrational, dimensional and causal realms where the Soul continues its expansion. This, and beyond is where Master and much higher frequency energy comes from. There are many” beings” (all are really one) working at thee levels. This is where deep unity consciousness is experienced.
Most of it we could not fathom. For an interesting perspective, for some reason, Scarlett Johansson has been involved in two movies lately that explore this idea of beyond the human. One is “Her” in which a man has a relationship with an “Operating System” companion. In the end, the movie gets quite metaphysical. Her is an exceptionally well made film. In”Lucy”, the director strangely combines a metaphysical exploration of consciousness wrapped in a bloody action movie. But I found the spiritual exploration quite interesting. I was pleasantly surprised at its internal coherence and actually its fealty to the truth of esoteric traditions.
According to the Michael teachings, all reincarnating souls are “fragments” of a large family group, known as an Entity. Each Entity consists of around 1,000 souls. When one of them completes the cycles of reincarnation, it abides on the higher astral levels serving as a guide or teacher.
Once all members (fragments) of a particular Entity have completed their reincarnational journeys (finishing off as 7th level Old), they will unite together in the higher realms forming an integrated consciousness, a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. This is the 6th cycle of evolution. It creates a higher order of consciousness on the causal plane in which the life experiences and understandings of 1.000 souls are pooled and integrated.
The Michael teachings come from such an entity – an integrated Entity made up of precisely 1,050 souls (Kings and Warrior types) who have completed their reincarnations and are now going through the 6th cycle. Through this cycle they will gain a United cosmic consciousness in which individuality is no longer relevant. They will, however, still perceive a difference between self and other, or created and creator. That difference is finally resolved for good in the 7th cycle, where the Entity consciousness comes to experience and know itself as the creator of it all.
I can’t vouch for any of the above from personal experience – I just see it as a roadmap that helps give context to the first five cycles.
I think Abraham and several other channeled sources fit this description of a collection of souls.
After going thru ALL35 stages, does that mean that we will be (returning) back where we originated from ?
As Barry has mentioned there are two more stages in the non physical beyond here. They involve higher realms. And according to this, some souls want to plunge in and do it all again.
But my suggestion is once you start really hooking in and remembering, there is no need to ‘wait” for the higher stages. You are already deeply in tune with what we “originated from”. Then expansion occurs like floating down a river.
Strictly speaking, we have never left where we originated from. We are integral to all-that-is. It’s just that we are in the process of realising that as individuals in our own right.
Between lives we know our oneness with all-that-is. But we don’t fully know our SELVES as unique individuals. That’s why we keep coming back.
At the end of reincarnation, we know both — we fully know (and are able to express) ourselves and we fully know (and are able to express) our oneness. It’s no longer a paradox.
Where did our ORIGiNAL soul originated from ?
That which is “God”, Source” “Spirit”, whatever name you wish to give it, is an infinite, eternal singularity that exists in a combined unmanifest, manifest (expressed with qualities) state. Everything emanates from, is an expression of, and is one always with that. You are it, having forgotten, like the wave in the ocean.
That’s where we “come from”. We are it, in itself, and all separation is an illusion.
But that’s the game.
Rumi said “You are not a drop in the Ocean, you are the Mighty Ocean in a drop.”
Can you recognize a soul you have been close to if the return within your lifetime?
Yes . Carol Bowman examines this phenomenon in her book “Return From Heaven”. I had the experience once at a party where I was performing for kids. A young woman had given birth to a daughter. Child was now about 18 months.) She had been close to her grandmother. They kept commenting that every time they picked the child up, they smelled the grandmother’s perfume.
I said “Does this little girl exhibit any of the behaviors the grandmother did?” They said like the grandmother, she seemed particularly drawn to shoes and clothes. So I said,” I think this is the soul of your grandmother come back as your daughter.”
Often you feel magnetically drawn (or repulsed) by the young person. They will carry behaviors and traits and attitudes with them from the previous life.(s)
Its not the norm to reincarnate within families with people you knew, but it happens often enough. Animals will come back too.
Could I ask a question. When we come down to this earth, does a part of our soul energy remain in the spirit world. Is it possible for a person who has passed over, to be greeted by that part of ourselves that remained in the spiritual void, without our reincarnated selves knowing?
First, I’d just like to point out for the benefit of readers that despite the name we are not the same person!
This question or one very much like it was asked on another page a short while back, so I’ll share the answer I gave then:
I’ve read various things about this. One is that only a portion of a soul incarnates; so while part of its consciousness is focused into (and completely identified with) a human personality, the rest of it remains in the astral (the realm of light between lives), on a higher level, but less focused — as if in meditation, or asleep.
Another is that this higher part becomes active as the personality-focused part sleeps. In fact, I think one of Michael Newton’s subjects said that one of the “jobs” our soul can do while our body sleeps is to assist those who have just died to make their transition.
I also came across this little description from someone who had a profound near-death experience:
“I experienced every loved one I had ever known (and the ones I didn’t think I loved too), all there. The ones who were still incarnate on Earth were [also] there – they seemed to be split – part of them in human form, nearly unreachable, and part remained there in the higher form, fully within me and me within them.”
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/cami_r_nde.htm
I have being studying your website and alot of the content on here and i must say it does answer alot of questions but there is a particular answer that i feel i need of you so i would be really appreciative if you could possibly answer it for me. I for one believe in Karma and it is a question that is playing on my mind. Say for example i am born to a very extreme culture or religion and my parents or guardians raise me up with extreme beliefs which have no concern about human life or i grown up and get greedy with power and commit hideous crimes against humanity like genocide for example hitler. What will my Karma be like when i pass will the souls i have murdered in the human world confront me when i am in the soul world ? and what if i have been taught that wrong is right i hope i make sense thanks – John.
Your birth, circumstances, and basic life script are not accidental. You have planned them. Within that you get some amount of free will. Read Journey of Souls by Michael Newton to get the bigger picture.
From the highest perspective there is no good or bad, therefore the only thing that matters is the experience and we all take on “god” and “bad” roles in this profound experiment and investigation.
If you have done horrific things, most likely there will be a need for karmic rebalancing as it is the Soul’s desire to expand and reunify with its essence which is love after a long journey of separation into the deepest individuality.
So yes there are repercussions. If one has been a monster, usually there will be whatever lives are needed to come to the level of “I don’t want to do that anymore”. Thus involves a lot of “ouch”.
But life is strange and part of the “repayment” can be in service so a monster can be a saint in another life. However, if one has been “bad”, usually there will be a need to feel the consequences of those actions as to not do that anymore. This takes time, usually more than one life.
I don’t think you have to confront every soul you hurt but often certain souls that were significantly injured personally (not on a mass level) can be involved in “payback”.
If you are asking these questions, I wouldn’t worry too much as most likely if you had been like that, you’ve already paid off most of the “debt”.
One knows one’s past by the circumstances that arise. If you had a particularly abusive childhood, or a strange infirmity, then you’re in the middle of the karmic debt already.
God is very forgiving. Dark is needed here as well as light but certainly circumstances can be quite unpleasant, albeit ultimately temporary.
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So what your saying there is no punishment for your deed’s ?
Punishment is an invention of human beings and does not exist in the higher realms. Between lives, there is only divine light, unconditional love, and perfect forgiveness. Between lives, it is also clear to us that we cause others’ suffering out of ignorance, and that we wouldn’t commit inhuman deeds if (a) we knew what it felt like, and (b) we had sufficient empathy and compassion for others. To this end, karma is a learning tool. It gives us the exeriences we need, but would not necessarily choose as human beings.
I agree with Barry. The traditional view of karma is punishment. The view that is emerging is more sophisticated. The Soul is interested in experience, balance and ultimately return to unity. Therefore by its own choice it will undertake accountability for “misdeeds” by undergoing events that help it develop empathy and understanding for whatever pain it inflicted on others.
There is a difference between correction or “discipline” vs punishment. Again, there is accountability. No one escapes the effects of their behavior. But it is not “punishment” As Barry said, that is a human concept. There is no punishment in Divine consciousness.
Its all for experience and learning.
Having a spiritual awakening or Kundalini awakening can be a shortcut to thousands of years of reincarnation.I would like to differ from the article in a way.Not all souls have a fixed determined path.The God part or Self lives in each of us.It is only when soul realizes the oneness through awakening from duality then only the need to reincarnate stops.
Kundalini clears all the soul attachments,Kama and confers you the knowledge of the self.This process once started never stops and takes few lifetimes to finish.
After this process is over Soul moves to higher dimensions to further lessons,never to come back to dense physical reality or illusion of duality.
I’ve had numerous brief spiritual awakening experiences plus a classic kundalini awakening that started full-on last September. I don’t yet have any sense of “never coming back”. On the contrary, I’ve lost my resistance to being physical and feel happy to reincarnate … Many happy returns!
This is a traditional view but in my experience is not true. Many souls have powerful kundalini-samadhi experiences, many of which lead to awakening. But this does not mean the end of their karmic run. In fact, many highly developed Yogi’s have had problems with egoic impulses, despite numerous such experiences.
What about suicide? What does this mean to a soul?
Suicide usually happens for two reasons. One: It is part of a contract to help other souls grow due to the intensity of the experience. This is not as common as the predominant reason, which is the soul feels overwhelmed and takes their life.The upshot is akin to an “:incomplete” in a course you are taking. The Soul then tries again with the same or similar “curriculum” because its desire is the experiences and lessons involved.
Sometimes souls over reach so they might recalibrate and not give themselves quite the intensity. Sometimes suicide creates some extra karmic baggage if it is done too often. Our source prefers us to stick it out.
What does NOT happen is any punishment or “damnation”. It is an experience like others and is not judged. You cross over. You get “cleaned up”. You review your life and you continue with your journey. Whatever lessons or experiences that are needed going forward are set up. The Universe is a very precise place in this regard.
Suicides that are part of terminal illnesses that occur when a person is in great pain and near the end in my understanding are not part of the above process. Its just a reasonable early exit and most life lessons have been learned.
Bottom line. No wrath. No hell. No judgment. Just learn, consider, move on.
“God” is not interested in punishment. There is no strict line to walk. It is understood that occasionally one will fall There are many ways in which goals of the soul are not met. So what? There is an eternity of opportunity.. The Soul does not live in time.
Hello,
How can I find out at which level I am at in this life? I know that I am an old soul.
Thank you 🙂
The ideal way to find out is to ask Michael directly. That is, to get a chart or profile reading of your essence and overleaves from a Michael channel.
Your essence includes your soul type and soul age (plus casting), while your overleaves are your current life’s personality traits (goal, mode, attitude, centering, chief feature).
Here are some channels I am happy to recommend at this time based on personal experience:
There are many others — I just have of no personal experience of their readings. See for example:
I need to share this.
I had a lucid dream where I turned to the only girl in the room and asked are you my spirit guide?
She turned into what I call my blue fairy, she was vivid blue going on violet
She said you need to tell them I don’t want to play any more.
Them being demons.
She started saying words I did not understand but I grasped one and repeated it back to her. She smiled and said yes.
Da Zalinski.
I dont know how to spell it. I found myself in a room with my boyfriend but I could feel it was not him, it was a trick. I said to him I don’t want to play anymore, he looked disappointed. I said Da zalinski. He did a double take, a look of shock, and stood up and showed his true form; abnormally tall, blonde hair, burning red eyes. Others appeared around him.
They fought and tried to silence me but I am stronger and did not stop praying mantras, peace, love and unity, I don’t want to play anymore, I choose the light, Da zalinski. They left the room and I woke up.
I immediately turned on my computer to learn what the word means. Of the thousands and thousands of pictures rotating my background a blue fairy appeared. She was pleased.
After hours of research I found this word is from the 15th century.
It means ”I am who I am’ and to know who you are is to be close to God.’
Reading this, this knowledge is know apart you forever.
I am a dream interpreter. Without knowing the entire context of your life at the moment of the dream, I feel pretty sure that the demons referred to were those false belief systems within you that your dreaming mind used symbolically and this was dream from your “higher self”.
It would be helpful to know your relationship with your boyfriend.
Sounds amazing. As Ken says, the exact significance is hard to determine without knowing more about you, but my sense is that the vivid blue fairy is probably a spirit guide coming to you.
Most infant souls end up in jail or in a nut house?? Which I take to imply’s classism, racism and corporate greed has no role in the disproportionate number of minorities and poor people in prison. When you say they cannot function in a civilized society, would you consider a country built on compition, thievery, war and murder, civilized?
The photo you used to dipict an infant soul is also questionable.
If you answered yes to any of my questions, then I infer, from the information that you put forward, That You my friend are an infant soul.
I’m going to be pretty direct and I’ll let Barry answer as he wishes because my sense is you are not on this wave length and don’t wish to be at this time, which is OK The heart of this emerging philosophy, of which this site and books like “Journey of Souls” are expressions is that the normal “victim perpetrator cycle”( good guys-bad guys) is an illusion. That somehow “they” are responsible is not seeing deeply enough into how things work. That for a world of contrast and separation to work, dark and light have to both exist. There can be no “combustion”, no forward movement unless both roles are played.
Therefore there is no “them” or “us” because there is only one thing disguising itself in roles to play all this out. And nothing ultimately is not where it should be.
I am a medium and have had a lot of communication with deceased conservative political figures (Nixon, William F Buckley, others) and they have reinforced this view strongly, to give up the “enemy” position. This does not mean one gives up one’s concern for injustice and ‘evil” but it reframes the perspective as to not blame someone for the role they have taken on.
Otherwise, one becomes trapped in the very web of hostility and anger one projects onto the “evildoer”. Why do you think great Masters have such equanimity? If you think they are naive fools, I would encourage you to think again.
I work in recovery with substance abuse and mental health clients. This model works for me because I can see the infant soul level of many of them.
We ordinarily can’t see the soul back story of individuals and events. If we could we would go “Oh, I understand the order behind everything”.
The issue of soul stages is not to demean anyone. It is only to illuminate the landscape. Do you deny that the baby soul designations fits fundamentalists to a “T”? Or the Young soul explanation?
You appear to be a mature soul. You’re doing a good job.
Read the book I i suggested along with Your Soul’s Plan” by Robert Schwartz.
If all this offends you, then I think you are not in a compatible place and I for one am not going to argue these things. I spent enough time with the atheists at Salon, which you might like, and its a fruitless discussion.
Good luck.
What is the purpose of having no recollection of past lives and/or lessons previously learned?
Barbara,’
Almost all mystics of every stripe will give you the same answer. The purpose of this physical creation at the highest level is the experience and investigation off *separation*, the illusion that that which is one is many.
If there is complete remembrance, no “cosmic amnesia”, the drama loses its power. By forgetting this is in reality a kind of movie which we are in, we immerse ourselves in the profound power of each moment and the experiences and lessons of each life.
Imagine going to a movie in which you knew the ending and all the plot points. The entire structure would crumble. By perceiving temporarily this is real, we feel its potency. Its what gives the entire thing its drive.
We all remember soon enough when we cross over. The big transition now is at a mass level remembering is happening in the physical. This is called “awakening”. When one awakens, one is coming to the end of the grand cycle or one comes with a specific conscious job to do. The forgetting and “normal life stuff no longer applies.
That’s why for truly advanced souls, young soul stuff like making money and personal ambition have little value. Service to others becomes the goal.
If we look at Jesus for example, we can see his short life was planned. The job was done. Gone. His only reason for being here was service. Hanging around to “enjoy life” for him had no value whatsoever.
He had graduated from that.
I would say so we start with a blank slate each time. Therefor, our tests are untarnished and we get to see what we are really made of. If we consciously knew how we had done in previous lives, we’d be able to say “well that was not a good way to do that in the past.” However, if it has really sunk in to our very essence, we would not make the same mistakes as we did last time. Sort of like not being able to cheat on a test. – Perhaps our past mistakes were not completely understood. The only way to know for sure is to see if we can pass the next test without previous knowledge. I’m not sure I worded that too well.. but perhaps our subconscious is our souls memories. If the soul learned the lesson fully, we’d pass the new test. If we didn’t quite grasp it fully, we’d need more lessons.
Yes I would agree with you in essence. But I would invite you and others to expand beyond the idea of strictly “tests”. This is a unique experience in all of existence, this Universe. It fulfills a very interesting purpose. Therefore a huge part of being here is not just “learning” but the *experience* of it. The fantastic, amazing, thrilling,sometimes frustrating, even horrific experience. And who is the experiencer? Which leads to who are we? We ARE that experiencer having this grand exploration.
Yes within this vast dance, game, ride -whatever metaphor we choose, to have a “fresh start” in the new life without prior memory is crucial, otherwise the power, immediacy, and impact of what we choose both to experience and learn (or have the opportunity to learn) would be lost.
And you are correct. As the soul assimilates its experiences and grows, what it is finished with becomes completely internalized into its being, part of the fabric of self and it naturally is moved on or moves on to whatever the next phase is.
I just want to buffer the idea of only “tests” and “mistakes”. Its much deeper and wider than that. My own experience is there is a deep love behind all of this.
I personally do not see any purpose to having no recollection of past lives and lessons learned.
This is where the work of the soul comes in between lives.
Your soul will be reborn with the right family and right circumstances to ease the continuation of the development of your soul’s evolution.
So basically, although you may not be conscious of it at birth, you’ll be picking up where you left off. It may be in a completely different part of the world then where you were in previous lives.
You will be pulled to educational and learning opportunities, early in life, that will allow you to learn and regain the wisdom you had acquired throughout your previous lives. It will be very easy for you to pick up.
Think of it like learning to ride a bicycle. When it comes to your soul’s evolution, you can never lose what you’ve learned.
Thanks
One of you is following the TV show on TNT, “Proof.” What did you think of this week’s treatment of the Child Prodigy? While having the two mothers actually meet was a bit too convenient, it was the idea of a child knowing how to play Mozart on the piano at age 5 with no lessons or ever having heard the piece. Most autistics who can do this have to hear the song played once. I could imagine that a child may hear the song while in the womb, but for one child prodigy, who dies too young, to take on the body of another child whose brain is especially wired to support this ability, is somewhat far-fetched to me.
My response would be you are missing the cause-effect condition. You are assuming primacy of the brain, the physical and somehow the soul has to adapt to it, which would make such events highly unlikely.
The reality is the other say around. The soul creates the body-mind- personality conditions exactly as needed for it purposes. The level of intelligence and power it has to do this is vast beyond our comprehension. The body is “fitted” to the soul, not the other way around.
Good references for this are “Edger Cayce on Reincarnation”, “Your Soul’s Plan’ by Robert Schwartz and “Return From Heaven” by Carol Bowman. Bowman’s book is interesting because it examines those who reincarnate in families who KNEW THEM as relatives while they were alive in the previous incarnation. I ran into a child who was the reincarnation of herself as a her mother’s grandmother. Its rare, but not that rare.
Carrying gifts over is extremely common. Proof is interesting in that it is following case history models. I’m not sure where the green scarf woman was coming from unless Carolyn looking at the phenomena would hurt her career due to resistance from the conventional community. (Which it did in the episode when she was pretty much convinced.)
When one is ready, the other side pushes one strongly into the flow of experience and understanding. There is no trepidation from Spirit that anything is being intruded upon.
>>”The reality is the other say around. The soul creates the body-mind- personality conditions exactly as needed for it purposes. The level of intelligence and power it has to do this is vast beyond our comprehension. The body is “fitted” to the soul, not the other way around.”
Are you saying that the soul has the power to manipulate the reproductive material of the chosen parents for its next incarnation, so that new body and personality will be suitable for housing that soul coming into the world, with its unique gifts and level of experience?
Creating body-mind-personality conditions as needed for its purposes would have to start farther back than development in the womb. A soul with that kind of power sounds like the “Holy spirit” which impregnated Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Who do you think you really are? The Divine technology operates through the third dimensional systems, the blueprint, yes, predates the body, which corresponds to the Soul’s wishes. In Christian Theology God “bypassed the 3D system. That’s a myth. My Guru was at Christ’s level. He was born in an ordinary middle class family through the regular birth process. He was completely awakened at age 6. How could his body handle the immense energies he utilized if his(the) Spirit had not created the conditions for that ability beforehand?
Either the Universe is accidental or it is incidental. There is no in between.
That’s a catchy line there at the end. But what exactly do you mean by it? Do you mean that either the universe is a result of the shuffle of the cards (accidental), or else it is of no real importance, or “just there” (incidental)?
Its a strange use of the word and perhaps the wrong one. My Guru used it to describe the Universe as causative, with purpose. Life is filed with *incidents* that have cause, it is not *accidental*. Perhaps the better word as used by Abraham is there is no *random*. EVERYTHING has causation. So either everything is random, or there is no random, none. There is no middle ground. No mix of causation and accident. No such thing as luck.
Higher spirituality is quite firm on this. Because everything operates by law, primarily the Law of Attraction. Even the flow of soul energy into a life is governed by it. If there is an energetic principle that rules all activity, then there can be no random, no accidental. It is a totally causative Universe.
There is no doubt that classism, racism and corporate greed play a role the disproportionate number of minorities and poor people in prison, especially in the US. I do not believe that I have implied otherwise.
The reason why an infant soul might end up in jail or in a “nut house” as you charmingly call it is PRECISELY because of a “civilised” society’s unwillingness to accommodate those who do not fit the template of so-called civilised citizens.
In a civilised society, by definition, you have various abstract systems in place: the centralisation of power, the organisation of labour, the trade in goods and services, the stratification of social classes. Competition, thievery, war and murder are inevitable side effects, along with laws, taxes, religions, money, economy, the threat of invasion, militarisation, expansionism, public amenities, private property, class conflicts, urban decay, policing, law courts, political power struggles, assassinations … In other words, the whole of human history since civilisation began.
The photo I have used is of a reconstruction of an early human, an ancestor of yours and mine about 2 million years ago.
There is an alternate view that (we) spiritual beings are not “put here” in order to evolve to perfection by learning lessons in successive lifetimes, but that each soul was created already perfect–in the image and likeness of God/Spirit–and has taken on a physical interface (adapted to life on Earth) because s/he wants to have that experience. Does that not seem more likely?
My experience and learning is that it is “both/and” as to what you say, not “either/or”. Who are “we”. Is there ultimately an “I” or “we”. At this level we really know so little.
So “we” have to be perfect expressions of “God” (All that is) for there is no other “thing” that exists. However All That feels the creative desire to experience each and every potentiality of its unlimited unmanifest state. Therefore there is no end to the potentiality of what is brought into existence. This physical Universe is but one small expression of that potentiality and its predominant characteristic is *separation* -individuation*, the illusion of many.
Into this then the arc of evolution of the soul becomes a grand journey. The essence, yes, is always the perfect self. It _allows_ itself to take on the experience of this individuation and “stages” of growth. Within the game they are real. Otherwise the drama cannot happen.
It sounds crazy, but if one is only undifferentiated perfect bliss all the time, it gets boring.
That is why I can’t believe in an eternal afterlife in heaven.
The word “afterlife” is a misnomer. What is termed the “other side”, which also has extraordinary diversity and levels of expansion into reunion, is the natural habitat outside of complete merger. Individuation occurs throughout the Cosmos, physical and non physical to varying degrees. My experience is it is quite prolific.
Perhaps we are just dealing with semantics but we are already in and of an eternal life. This realm creates the illusion of time and separation, as if it is real _apart_ from its true nature. That is impossible. The wave cannot *not* be party of the ocean. Ever.
That’s why all mystical traditions insist “heaven” is here-now. There is no other place one can be. The game here is forgetting-remembering.
Perhaps you were thinking of “heaven” in the more traditional sense.
I grew up in a small, church-going Methodist family, but I have not believed in the traditional heaven and hell since I was in my late teens and was introduced to the concepts of reincarnation, karma, and the cosmology of the eastern traditions. Much later, I read books, studied esoteric teachings, and as a member of a New Thought church, was exposed to much metaphysical discussion. I have read some of A Course in Miracles and even the Urantia Book, etc., but I don’t see how the writers of these books can claim to know of hierarchies of ascended masters, through which they have been given the knowledge that they are passing on. Some go so far as to claim that nothing in the physical world is real, but a projection of our minds.
Knowing that “solid” objects are actually made of energy particles with a lot of space between them, I can accept that in theory, but I also know that our physical minds and senses are able to perceive and interact with these objects, and to us, they are as real as our own bodies are.
What I am trying to understand now, as death approaches in what may be just a few years, is whether there is any continuity to consciousness as I take my last breath. Stories of near-death experiences abound, but has anyone actually died and returned to tell about it? No, I don’t believe there is a heaven where good people go to live in eternal bliss with all their friends and relatives who have already passed on. To what purpose? How boring! Nor do I believe in a hell where bad people exist forever in torture and pain. We make our own hell right here.
First I applaud you for your journey. For me, and I teach about this, there are a number of vectors that point more than strongly to the nature of “heaven”, or more accurately the realms beyond the physical. And of course philosophies contradict. Buddhist reincarnation is different than Hindu for example. I personally think the Course in Miracles Cosmology is deeply flawed, for very specific reasons related to the receptivity of the channels and the context of the time it time out.
But I think one can be too literal or too wedded to the idea of “proof” in the physical. I read a scientist who said “one anecdotal experience does not constitute evidence, however we may consider that cumulative, especially in the thousands or more that coincide, do.”
For me there are 5 converging vectors that give us a picture of what happens after death. The first are NDE’s. The second is the experiences of hypnotherapists skilled in life between life regression such as Michael Newton in Journey of Souls and Joel Whitton, among others. The third are the myriad of experiences of mystics and even ordinary people who have profound mystical experiences. (Such as reincarnational memories that upon investigation reveal startling accuracy,) The fourth is the knowledge brought forth by mediums and psychics. And the 5th are spontaneous utterances of children.
Together they give us a pretty strong composite picture. Part of the gift of the West now is the representation of technological thinking to these things in ways that were not investigated or communicated before. I call this the “technology of consciousness”.
The “landscape” or terrain they reveal is anything but boring and everyone goes for it is the natural home of the soul and there is no hell. But there are varying degrees of consciousness and it is just as fertile and full of purpose and activity as here, perhaps even more so. Or as a little girl once said, “People think that when you go to heaven its easy. It isn’t. Its hard work”.
I recommend Journey of Souls (Newton) Life Between Life (Whitton) and Testimony of Light by Helen Greaves (which got me into all this.to start with) I also recommend Your Soul’s Plan by Robert Schwartz and Return From Heaven by Carol Bowman.
Last, the idea that no one has returned from death to tell us about it is not true. Yogananda’s teacher, Shri Yukteshvar resurrected before him in the flesh in a hotel room in Calcutta and revealed to him much about the realms beyond this. His account is very consistent with much of the others mentioned here.
You can find the chapter online here http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap43.php
Finally, I am a medium and the experiences I have had validate that in some form , what we call specific soul survives death, is quite knowledgeable about what’s going on with us, is filled with wisdom. and is not bored in the least.
The other side is not “amorphous” in any way shape or form.
Thank you, Ken. This is like stepping back from the precipice of death left by the scientific method, in which there is no place for consciousness to go. I knew and believed what you are saying several years ago, but have witnessed such a horrendous process of decay and disintegration of all societies recently, and seen and heard of such atrocities being committed both by terrorists and “normal” people, that it has become hard to believe we are not what we appear to be–an isolated planet where life arose from a chemical soup and evolved to a form capable of thinking about itself. As such, we cannot conceive of a beginning or ending of our own conscious existence, but we also cannot demonstrate scientifically that there is any awareness beyond those limits (NDEs and hypnotic regression notwithstanding. How do we know that such experiences are not imagined or recalled from having read, viewed, or heard of such events, even as children, and retained them in memory?)
I see the popularity of movies, books, and TV series about horror and the worst possible aspects of the “supernatural,” and I do not understand why people would enjoy this kind of “entertainment,” since I do NOT. But maybe it is as you say, that there must be darkness in order for the light to show up. There is so little light right now, that the darkness must be plumbed to its rotten depths, to allow what little light is present to shine.
There is a new TV series on TNT now called “Proof,” about a dying young billionaire willing to pay a doctor to find out what happens after death. It promises not to indulge in horror, but has already had one episode about hallucination due to a brain lesion. Interesting, but I do believe that by finding this site, I have stepped back from that precipice and am ready to embrace the mystic path again. Again, thank you!
Dear Sister,
I too have been watching “Proof” The show has a conundrum. It cannot “prove” anything, so it tends to present both sides of the argument. It is my experience people are going to believe what they want no matter what the “evidence”. So 42% of all Americans do not believe in Evolution. On the other side, not matter how profound or startling the “evidence”, a “scientific fundamentalist” will never believe or accept that something other than neurology of the brain is responsible. I think the show in the end is pro afterlife, but subtlly.
You mention the show with the lesions, but the implication was the dead wife was guiding her husband to heal from her knowledge from the other side. The first episode had the little girl replicate Eban Alexander’s condition (Bacterial meningitis) in which the brain cannot function. She then knew of the true grandfather in detail that the grandmother had never revealed to anyone. Whether this is an actual case history does not matter, for there are thousands like it.
At present we will not get scientific proof because the technology is not advanced enough to deal with the higher frequencies of the “soul”. So its a catch 22., “I have this (relatively) primitive technology but with it you have to show me effects that will be years in the future”. This is absurd to me. Its like going back in time 200 years and saying, in the future there are these devices that transmit waves so people can see and talk to one another. The Puritan says “prove it or we will burn you here and now”. How can one do that?
About things being so wretched. They’re not. Because media has become so overwhelming, it appears as if things are far worse than before. This is an illusion. There have been several studies on this. Here is one article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html
It is actually startling how less violent this place is, how far more opportunities are emerging for those who did not have them, and how far less tolerance there is for attitudes and behaviors just decades ago, much less 50-60 years ago
My big concern for humanity is not violence, but climate change and environmental issues. But I have hope.
Remember the ideas here are extremely cutting edge and involve an advancement in connection to light that allow for inspection at a very high level. Because it runs counter intuitive to “normal” human thinking. We are transitioning and still have one leg in the 3rd dimension and one leg in the 5th.
IMO the scientists are the worst. Because they refuse to be open. Skeptic is not zealous
John Edward told a story about a young boy who had died and when he came though he told his parents to look at a certain picture they took while in Israel. He said in his light body he stepped in front of the camera so they could see a glow of light block the landscape. They found the picture and it was exactly as he said.
If I have a hundred of these accounts, plus my own, i will not yield to the demand that these things must be found in a test tube. And yet, those who cannot be open, cannot be for a reason. Its not personal. I would read the description of atheists as mature souls here on the site.
Let us see in 5 years what’s what. In 1963 no one ever would dream that 1967 was on the horizon. It was still galaxies away, but moving very fast. Then the Cosmic comet hit and nothing was ever the same
Think not? This site, this type of thinking is the progeny of that era. Look at the expansion since then. The ripples are still moving outward.
I have a question. While all this makes a lot of sense to me. I am left wondering where psychotics and murderer’s fit it? When I did a past life regression once, I was living the life of a well known murderer. It was an awful experience. I was living in the killer’s mind and I knew immediately that his head was ‘not right’ as I put it. I question whether this was actually my past life or simply some transference, but regardless. Why would one choose the life of a criminal or a killer?
If this theory here is correct or has merit, we must go to the origin of why it came into existence. The cutting edge thought (Not so cutting edge perhaps as the Vedas were on to it as well as those such as Seth) is that the deep impulse arose within ALL THAT IS to experience separation and individuation at a profound level. As Conversations With God puts it,
“God” said, “Hmmm, what would it be like if I allowed myself to experience myself as that which I am not? What if out of complete oneness I created a realm of contrast, here-there-up-down, black-white, good-bad. That would be fascinating.” Thus physicality was born and to ALL THAT IS, if one is to experience, experiment with , Inspect and investigate every inch, every angle of this new thing, the *separation*-illusion, then every angle must be so done.
Evil as we construe it is a human invention. The antelope does not say ,”Look at those evil Lions”. Everything is just part of what is.
If we add on the Michael piece of the human soul journey, we see a progression from Infant, or “beginning Souls” to deeply mature””Old Souls”. There is no better or worse, only stages of the journey. Therefore, in the human form, all these angles must be played out. From the human perspective it can be horrific. From the Soul’s perspective it adds to the depth of the experience as the deepest dark must be plumbed as well as the greatest light.
Since our true nature is immortal, it is like a movie, one in which we forget who we are. Thus the “God” part of us becomes the consummate diamond cutter. How interesting that if once you were a disturbed murderer, how far you have progressed that there is no attraction any more for any of that. Karma is complex. The reasons behind things are many layered,
Here is Yogananda’s take
“http://www.theself.com/lifeisadream_yogananda.cfm
Excerpt
“Some say that God (consciousness) doesn’t know evil, because they can’t explain why a God who is good allows robberies, murders, disease, poverty, and other terrible happenings that are going on constantly on this earth. And yet, evil provides the contrast that enables us to recognize and experience goodness. Evil had to be, if there was to be any creation. If you wrote a message with white chalk on a white board, no one would see it.
There is another angle about duality, or good and evil that I want to explain to you. If a movie producer made movies only of angels (of only goodness), and showed them in the movie theatres morning, noon, and night everyday, he would soon have to close up his business. He (the producer) has to produce variety in order to attract people’s attention.
The bad man makes the hero look so much better! And we like plots that are filled with action. We don’t mind looking at exciting movies about danger and disaster, because we know they are only movies (a mere appearance on a screen). If you could see what is going on behind the screen of this life, you wouldn’t suffer at all. Life is a cosmic movie (projected within the screen of consciousness). I look at the beam of God’s light, which is projecting these scenes on the screen of life (consciousness). I see the pictures of the whole universe coming from this beam….”
The forgetting is important because without it, the profound immersion into it would not have the value that it does. It has to feel real. However as we awaken, we realize more and more the love behind everything, even the twisted mind of a murderer.
Thank you so much for sharing Ken! I finally read the whole excerpt and my mind is at peace. I truly feel that it is my goal this life to step into a life of a mystic. On my way to practice some Kundalini yoga now!
Good for you.