Those undergoing the fifth and final stage of reincarnation are known as old souls. In this stage of soul evolvement there is a search for balance and completion, and an urge to pass on the torch before the end of reincarnation.
Contents
Journey’s End
Having completed the fourth stage of reincarnation*, the soul has come a long way.
- In the first stage, as an “Infant Soul” it learned about physical existence, life and death, and the need for nurturing.
- In the second stage, as a “Baby/Child Soul” it learned about society, culture and community, the need for structure, belonging, and playing a role.
- In the third stage, as a “Young Soul” it learned about free will and self-determination, taking charge of its own destiny, rising to the challenge.
- In the fourth stage, as a “Mature Soul” it learned about co-existence and interrelatedness, taking responsibility for its relationships, honouring difference and otherness.
At last, the soul is ready for the final leg of the journey: the return to unity and the end of reincarnation.
* For an overview of the stages of soul evolution, see Reincarnation: the 35 Steps
In Search of Unity
The Old Soul already has a well-developed sense of independence (from its Young Soul phase) and inter-dependence (from the Mature Soul phase). Now the soul also feels drawn to reconnect with the greater order of things, the underlying cosmic unity.
This does not mean overthrowing the lessons of the previous stages in favour of some nice, fluffy notion of oneness. Rather, it means coming to terms with all of life’s dualities (self and other, love and hate, joy and pain, etc.) as integral to the whole. In fact, the main lesson for Old Souls is to do with finding unity within diversity.
The Dalai Lama (Old Server)
The Realised Self
This return to unity does not involve any loss of individuality, as some imagine. The end of reincarnation — “ascension” or “enlightenment” or what have you — does not mean fading out of existence, dissolving into nothingness.
Rather, the soul completes its adventure as a unique individual, like a distinctive star in the night sky, a completely realised Self.
So to begin this stage, the soul will tend to focus on true self-expression and self-actualization. In other words, seeking experiences and activitiies which provide ultimate personal fulfilment within life on the physical plane.
This could be found in, say, art, science, acting, wine-growing, gardening, flying old aeroplanes, or simply being a grandparent. The soul is not interested in success or fame so much as doing something it loves well, living up to its true potential, and finding inner satisfaction.
Then, towards the end of the stage, there is more of an emphasis on teaching rather than simply learning: passing on the lessons learnt, showing others the way.
For some, especially Old Priest souls, the teaching focus is explicitly spiritual. Many of the world’s great spiritual teachers were/are Old Souls: Buddha, Jesus, Ramana Maharshi, and so on.
But that’s not to say that every self-proclaimed guru is an Old Soul. Far from it. There are spiritual teachers at all stages of reincarnation. But the advanced Old Soul has certain characteristics as a spiritual teacher that stand out from the rest: far-reaching wisdom, great compassion, inner peace, and little or no attachment to material things.
Old Soul Perceptions
In this final cycle on the Earth plane, the soul develops a more holistic perception of self, life and everything as part of a bigger picture. So while a Mature Soul (stage IV) comes to perceive others as its brothers and sisters, an Old Soul (stage V) comes to perceive both self and others as integral parts of a greater whole, all unique yet all essential.
In other words, the individual comes to perceive every thing, every being, every moment, as part of one great tapestry.
The issue now is how to relate to this united reality through one’s own being — how to be at peace with all of the conflicts, how to experience the harmony within all of the diversity.
This involves recognising the validity of each being’s chosen path in life within the broader scheme of things. We are all part of the One, and yet we are many, each pursuing a different path. And no path is wrong. Hence the Old Soul motto: “You do your thing and I’ll do mine.”
Old Soul Lifestyles
Old Souls become more relaxed, laid back and detached in life. Human existence is familiar and manageable, and there are not so many problems or issues to deal with.
The main issues, in fact, are existential rather than material or psychological. A potential pitfall for Old Souls is lapsing into apathy or complacency, no longer caring about life and the world. Unlike Young Souls, they are not driven to complete major projects before they die. As the physical plane begins to lose its allure, an older soul can show signs of being world-weary, even from birth.
Doing their own thing, Old Souls end up pursuing nothing but their own path whilst allowing others to pursue theirs, just perfecting their own abilities, being themselves in life to the best that they can. Many do so through artistic, humanitarian or philosophical endeavours, though for many others their greatest form of self-fulfillment can be something as mundane as gardening. Work, rest and play all become the same thing.
In the end, joy is found in simply being as opposed to doing.
Other Old Soul Characteristics
How can you spot an old soul?
Old Souls have a level of self-assurance that is unusual for souls in other stages. This isn’t the same as the brash confidence or “can-do” attitude of Young Souls. Rather, Old Souls are generally relaxed and philosophical about life, at ease with themselves and others, and have fewer worldly concerns.
That’s not to say that Old Souls have no issues; many clearly do. (We all have issues of some sort right up until our very last life.) But unlike Mature Souls, Old Souls do not let their issues stress them out.
Old Souls tend to emanate a calm, steady quality that has substance, depth or gravitas. In contrast, Young Souls tend to appear frantic and superficial while Mature Souls seem perpetually stressed and assailed by life. You can often hear it in the voice —
- Young Souls tend to talk loud and fast (“I’m right and you know it!”)
- Mature Souls have a sort of soft tone laced with uncertainty (“I’m really not sure I can cope with this …”)
- Old Souls tend to have a slow, deep voice – relaxed, assured and unhurried (“If there’s one thing I know, it’s that I know nothing…”).
This inner calm and depth is also evident in the old soul’s eyes. Whereas Young Souls cannot make eye contact for long, and Mature Souls will do so occasionally, when they’re not too stressed or distracted, Old Souls tend to make direct eye contact with an unflinching gaze. (Note: This is not the same as the cold stare of a psychopath!) They are unafraid to look another in the eyes and see into their heart.
Old Souls are like citizens of the world, not so much identified with their country or culture of origin. They tend to be drawn to the quiet life away from the noise of the city. Old Kings in particular will tend to spend their last lives as homeless, wandering teachers.
Some Notable Old Souls
Old souls who become famous tend to do so by virtue of their mastery, compassion, insight and wisdom rather than ambition.
Many of the finest minds in history have been old souls: Marcus Aurelius (121-180), Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519), Carl Jung (1875-1961).
In the arts we have the composer J. S. Bach (1685-1750), the painter Paul Gauguin (1848-1903, now apparently reincarnated as artist Peter Teekamp).
Also the writer Walt Whitman (1819-1892), now apparently reincarnated as the writer/activist Alice Walker.
In the acting profession, there are numerous Old Souls who excel at playing characters who are, essentially, younger souls — mainly because there aren’t that many scripts featuring older soul characters!
Morgan Freeman is well known for the gravitas he brings to every role.
Finally, many of the world’s great spiritual teachers have been late-stage old souls passing on their wisdom: Gurdjieff (1866-1949), Jiddu Krishnamurti (1895-1986), Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950), Anandamayi Ma (1896-1962), Neem Karoli Baba (d. 1973), the Dalai Lama, Ammachi (Mātā Amritanandamayī Devi), and Thich Nhat Hanh.
The End of Reincarnation
There are seven levels to every stage of soul evolution, including this one. After completing the 7th level of the Mature Soul stage, the soul begins its next life as a 1st-level Old Soul. The soul then undergoes the whole cycle of development, one life at a time, until finally it reaches 7th level. This is the final step, step 35, in the 35 steps of reincarnation.
Now, I occasionally meet people who are convinced that they must now be in their final incarnation simply because they are so “spiritual” and have no liking for the material world. This is not how it works.
The goal of evolution is not to escape from the wretched physical plane, despite what many teach. The end of reincarnation is not some sort of reward for good behaviour. Human existence is not a prison, or a wheel of torment, from which only the most worthy gain liberation.
We incarnate because we want to and we choose to. We keep doing it precisely because we want to come to terms with it. We know that in each life we will probably spend several decades not remembering who we are, not remembering our eternal Home, buying into the illusion of separation, experiencing fear. This is the very stuff which inspires us to become more conscious.
Completion occurs when it matters not whether you are incarnate or discarnate: you see through the illusion and you always feel at Home.
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Consider Ramana Maharshi, an Old Scholar and a model of pure enlightenment. Towards the end of his life, some of his students begged him not to die, not to leave them. His answer was: “But where could I possibly go?” He knew that both he and everybody else are already Home, and always will be, having never really left it. → See: Abide As The Self [DVD] |
So the last lifetime is one in which you are very content to be in physical form, using it as an opportunity to teach and enlighten others – or to simply enjoy being physical one last time. If you have issues with being physical, then you still have a way to go.
Cycling Off: The Higher Stages
On completion of the seventh level of the Old Soul stage (or “cycling off”), there is no longer any need or desire to reincarnate. The soul will unify its consciousness with soul mates who have also completed, and it may serve as an elder spirit guide to others still undergoing reincarnation. But there is no longer value to be had in incarnating as a human being.
There are some rare exceptions, however.
A number of old Priest souls such as the philosopher Socrates, the Prophet Mohammed and Mahatma Gandhi are said to have incarnated to become vehicles for a higher level of consciousness capable of inspiring a cultural revolution. The higher consciousness manifested through these individuals only in later life. From that point on, they are referred to in the Michael teachings as “transcendental souls”.
Rarer still, Jesus Christ and the Buddha are said to be examples of old King souls who returned to become the physical embodiment of divine love, pure consciousness and ultimate truth, the Tao itself in human form. In other words, avatars. Again, the transformation did not occur until some point in adulthood. But from then on, these individuals are said to be manifestations of the “infinite soul”.
Recommended reading
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The Michael HandbookA Channeled System For Self UnderstandingJOSÉ STEVENS and SIMON WARWICK-SMITH(Warwick Press, 1990)Amazon link → |
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Journey of SoulsCase Studies of Life Between LivesMICHAEL NEWTON, Ph.D.(Llewellyn, 1994)Amazon link → |
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Old SoulsThe Sages and Mystics of Our WorldALETHEIA LUNA(KINDLE only: Amazon, 2013)Amazon link → |
The Five Stages of Reincarnation
Stage 1 |
Stage 2 |
Stage 3 |
Stage 4 |
Stage 5 |
| Infant Soul | Baby Soul | Young Soul | Mature Soul | Old Soul |
Wow this is beautiful. 🙂 thank you.
Certainly brought me to an awareness in which i hadnt been seeking, and am grateful to have found.
Interesting! Some years ago I was told that I was an ‘advanced’ soul. Yes, I’ve had a bag load of experiences, lived in countries and cities but of course there are still the trials that life puts before me. Can never seem to escape those. I’m still yet to work out what my purpose is (although I’ve been told I will be a ‘teacher’ and yet I don’t feel any passion to do this) and I’ve just began M/Meditation. Let’s hope it works.
Would it be fair to say… It’s long into adulthood or even later in life, before we see our true stage emerge? So many characteristics have applied for a fraction of time through the years of my life. Now I’m 43 and I can tell with certainty many, many of those characteristics have faded greatly. I feel it took the first 40 years to start to really feel – not find – but feel myself. It comes in waves of just self comfort… while I was almost certain I was early stages of mature… I really just don’t know. I’m weird to many.. I enjoy life and am truly just happy experiencing. I enjoy all religions, I think they’re wonderful. I’m a vagabond of sorts, I move every year or two. i honestly believe if I didn’t have children I would be homeless… only because I feel corporate America was enslaving my body and paralyzing my soul. I need to feel that connection… that is all I need. That connection to us.
I remember being young, 5 or so and parents asked me for the truth… I replied “which version?”. My parents weren’t religious but I enjoyed the church three doors down from my house just the same. I used to sit and stare at the sun trying to control the clouds shading through the stained glass windows.
My youngest self and my self now are more connected then I feel they’ve ever been. I’m still trying to figure out which version of the truth everyone wants and I’m still trying to control…
Barry, I’ve spent a few days on your site and must tell you how truly enjoyable and refreshing it has been to find so much useful information in one location. Thank you
So glad you like it!
are there any female old souls? because the only ones you’ve listed are male.
Hi Emily
a) Yes, I would expect that approx. 50% of incarnate old souls are female.
b) Not quite, I’ve mentioned Ammachi and there’s a photo of Gangaji. I agree it looks imbalanced, and it’s on my to-do list to include more female examples; it’s just the sources I used at the time of writing happened to mention many more males than females.
barry
very interesting article, thanks.
My earliest memories as a young child up until young adult ive always felt sacure and connected with everything around me, from the onion grass that grew in my back yard, to things I had never seen in the world but I knew about(meaning I was aware of the fact that there were so many things I had not learned yet and how those things were connected to me and everything else- ONENESS) & I didnt even think to question it.. going through puberty I strayed away from self knowing on that level and got lost in wanting exceptance and love from my closest bonds (family/friends)i am 21yrs oknow and the last few months “snapped me back ” sort of speak.. In a 30 day period I experianced great trama; wanting so badly just to get on a happy achesuaufcl
I find this very interesting and get a sence of wellbeing when I read the article but… I feel better not really thinking about it. Let the influences of my inner conciousness guide my day-to-day decisions. Admittidly, I was a wild young adult but I tried not to hurt anyone. I recognise the disadvantages while I struggle with articulating the advantages to my teenage daughter. People have known the old soul concept and made references to this or that person “reminds” me of or, has some charastics resembling what “I” think an old soul is; I just think it is more important to act and communicate tolerance, empathy and treatment of others as I wish to be treated. Life is to be lived and it is wrong to allow yourself any self-pity that could lead to depression or worse. Live your life and deal with what you are given. Any efforts you make to hurry the process along is detrimental because, if you were to succeed in making it 3 instead of 35, you might miss out on something cool. Have confidence that you will make it eventually, use self-reflection when something doesn’t work out the way you wanted it to, look for opportunities to demonstrate accountability for things you wish you could change and live & learn as much as you can. It’s all good.
Cheers John
Hello, My name is Josh. I could not explain how much it would mean to me if you were able to read this and help me at the best of you’re ability.Ever since i was 6..I’ve had challenges and sad things that would constanlty happen to me….I’ve lost my grandfather…And my Dog…..My dad…And i have no brothers…..No sisters…And I’m currently 15..Notice the large amount of information i am giving..that’s because.I want to have awnsers..Because nobody else could awsner these for me…And i really want to know…Am i on the right path? I’m 200 pounds, 5’11 and i work out alot…I also play video games alot…Now those two are a horrible combination for me because it is so hard to do the two…..I workout seriously….Sometimes i cry…Sometimes i shout..And scream when i workout…..I am so tired of doing challenging things…But at the same time I’m not..And i want to continue doing things differently…..I want to challenge my self to the most i possible can because i personally believe in the thought of death being the only thing that limits you…..I beleive i can do anything…Because I’ve built a resistence to emotinal pain….It does not phase me…Only strengthens me…The death of my loved ones..The needs and wants that i struggle to get…The rejection of females…..The pain my heart goes thru……It does not put me into a “sad” state..It actually makes me stronger….When you see people workout…They usually stop when it starts to hurt..And very few people do it untill it really really reall yhurts and you just can’t take it…But the magoirty of the time i actually have my self get stopped..And not stop myself..Does that makes sence?? I’m trying to say that if i want…I could not let things stop me…But have something stop me…Example…If I’m working out..I don’t stop lifting the weights untill my body can no longer lift the weight……I don’t let emotions phase me…And i’ve stopped them from phasing me ever since i was 13….I listen to literally every single type of music..I don’t have a favorite….I do everything the hard way….And i have challenges constantly bashing into me….I believe my soul is something special…And i really want to know if it is….Because i’ve bin thru so much…..It feels like I’ve bin living for over a hundred years..I remember so many things…So many people…So many places I’ve bin….And i feel like some sort of legend..I don’t care about my looks…I’m a really nice guy…..I love animals. And i am the biggest fan of honour and fairness…If i had the choise to battle somebody..I would want to battle them with out any knowledge of kung fu or anything like that…Just you’re hands….I know i might sound crazy….And i probably am..Like i said I’ve bin thru alot and I’ve bin diagnosed with bi polar disoder…. Maniac depression, pyscotic depression….And i also have back issues..And feet probelms..I have to wear orthotics in my shoes….I want to be different… And i am different…What stage would you consider my soul being? Would you consider it special? Is there such thing as a special soul? Because i know its possible for other people to do the things i do..In the exact way i do them….But they don’t….Everybody is so in love wiht m oney and fame and looking good..But i don’t care..I care about doing things that i once thought i was un able to do….And discovering about the galaxy….ABout earth…My body is so tired.. And everytime i sleep nomatter how long i sleep I stil feel tired..I read that you’re mind could be tired…depending on how much stress you go thru and stuff…Since little to no people face the challenges i face…And do the things i do…What does that mean? I know that i can’t really say that because somebody in this world somewhere could be doing the things i do.But mos tlikely not EXACTLY how i do them…I don’t know anybody who challenges them self for every single thing they do….I’ve thought of killing my self at the age of 12..then 13..Then i stopped because i don’t want to do that…It’s weak and pathetic…That’s when i was able to go thru emotions without being phased..I want to say that I’m something special…And i was hoping somebody like you could help me..
Hi Josh
Here’s my impression based upon what you’ve said (and how you’ve said it).
• Soul type: Warrior – naturally drawn to strength, challenge, confrontation, heroism, loyalty.
• Soul age: not sure, but currently manifesting as early young soul – keen to learn “what’s different and special about me” – though the same is also true of many people in their teens.
Is there such a thing as a special soul? No, not in the sense that one soul stands out as being inherently better than the rest. All souls are of equal quality and merit. The more evolved souls are, perhaps, more radiant than the less evolved – but what they radiate is immense love and wisdom, not pride and glory.
It’s *possible* that you have recently lived a life of some importance (in human terms), and you can sense some echo of that. But it’s also possible that you are just getting carried away with your imagination. I can’t say either way.
A concern with one’s specialness is common at your (physical) age, but there is a “trap” to watch out for. There is nothing wrong with looking for one’s own specialness. It is an essential part of the human journey of self-discovery. The trap is imagining that you are special and no one else is. You see, the word “special” has two meanings. One is simply “unique, significant, important”, and the other is “more unique, more significant, more important than the rest.” The first is true of all of us. The second is a fantasy of the ego.
In a real sense, every single one of us is absolutely special — we are all unique, each with a unique place in the cosmos, and a unique part to play. And we are all free to unfold our unique gifts in whatever ways we choose. But there is no way in which one soul (or human) is, by nature, more important than another. To believe that you are is what is known as hubris or arrogance (see https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/chief-features/arrogance/). To try to get others to confirm that you are special is what is known as narcissism.
Just something to watch out for.
I also get the impression that, perhaps unconsciously, you are at war with something. (Not uncommon for a Warrior!) Could it be death? Or possibly even life itself, since it includes pain and death. Not only would mortality impose the ultimate limitation on you (as a physical being), but it has also snatched away some of your loved ones and thereby caused you to feel terrible emotional pain — something that does not sit easily with a strong, masculine, determined, adolescent Warrior.
It is as if you are trying to defy life/death by “proving” that physical pain does not affect you. Or perhaps you are trying to numb yourself to physical pain in order to stop feeling whatever emotional pain that is still in there … Pain that could return in the future any time another loved one dies, or another girl rejects you.
I would caution you that emotional numbness is not a sound strategy. (If you want to get a sense of why that is, read my page on Self-Destruction (https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/chief-features/self-destruction/) and in particular the readers’ comments below it.) Going out of touch with your emotions may be an effective temporary strategy at times — many soldiers in war certainly go that way, to numb themselves to all the horror (and sometimes to their own brutality). But war is an extreme situation, and as many soldiers find when they return home, being emotionally cut off and insensitive to feelings is not an effective strategy for ordinary life. In fact, it’s pathological. If you don’t care about your own emotions, you don’t care about other people’s emotions either. It’s like an essentially human part of you has died.
If you are, as I suspect, a Warrior, then I know you will like a challenge… So here’s one: see if you can be the sort of person who can feel the emotional pain of loss and grief, knowing that it won’t destroy you. I get that with bipolar disorder that might not be the most attractive option in the world, but neither is going to war against your emotional side.
Are you on the right path? Yes, if you are *choosing* your path. The choices we make, both big and small, become the path we take and shape the life we life. Another one of the traps people sometimes fall into is not getting this, but assuming that their life is all wrong because of what other people have done to them — their partner, their parents, the government, God, etc. It’s easier to grumble about what is wrong than to take responsibility and make one’s own decisions. I’m not sensing this in you, by the way, it’s just a general statement. So, if you are consciously choosing your own life path, and if you feel that the choices you make are the best ones — given your current understanding of yourself, of life, and of others — then you are certainly on your own “right” path.
Josh, I know I’ve been a bit challenging here, but not because I want to “get at” you. My intent is to alert you to your options, and to help you avoid some of the bear traps that appear during adolescence. I also suspect you don’t mind a challenge!
Cheers
Barry
Wow, thanks Barry. I like how you wrote so much. Most of it really helped. But when you said that you’ve got a feeling I’m at war with something unconsciously. what do you mean by that?…And about the numbing thing…Physical pain doesn’t really stop me….But i deffinitly don’t try to numb my self with physical or emotinal pain…And when you said not to always get emotinally cut of from feelings…Isn’t it bad to just sit around and be sad? That’s what i always thought..That’s why i almost never actually take time to be sad and all that stuff…I just get through the emotions and then they come back.
Hi Josh,
Well the thought that kept occurring to me as I read your piece was: What exactly is motivating you to want to become so strong and … Invulnerable even? You are putting an extreme amount of effort into strengthening yourself and enduring pain, and you mention wanting to avoid getting into emotional states like sadness. Maybe I’m reading too much into it – fair cop – but I just had a theory that maybe you were conditioning yourself to resist something that might otherwise get you – emotion.
But, on the other hand, if you simply love extreme exercise for the sake of it, then there’s nothing wrong with that and feel free to strike my speculations from the record!
I will offer an alternative view on one point you made. A lot of people assume that once they open the door to the world of emotions, that’s it – they will be stuck there, lost in feelings. Actually it doesn’t work like that. If your dog dies, it is appropriate and natural to cry abut it for a few minutes or hours or maybe even even days. And then, naturally, you come out of the emotion, back i to your strength. That’s it – it’s a healthy thing to do, you get a release of locked-up energy, and you get back to normal life.
A negative feeling is basically a clever signal telling us that something isn’t right and we should get prepared to do something about it. Ideally, we should look at our feelings in this way, giving us feedback of what isn’t working so well in our lives – wherever we have conflicting goals or commitments, basically.
But, there are two ways that people get “stuck” around emotions.
One is not allowing them into one’s experience in the first place (“stiff upper lip”, “boys don’t cry”, etc). I remember seeing this woman in a growth workshop who had painful grief and bereavement etched all over her face. Her husband had died a couple of years earlier, yet her face looked as though it had only just happened. It turned out that she had never allowed herself to feel the sorrow of the loss, out of a fear that she would get lost in the emotions and never be normal again. As a result, the emotional energy of loss was constantly seething within her, just below the surface. It was obvious to anyone who looked at her. Yet as far as she was concerned, she was doing the “sensible” thing by not letting those emotions get to her.
Another possible way that people can become stuck with their emotions is that they allow the feelings into themselves but then but then have no way to let them out, to express or convey them. It’s like, first you feel the heat of the emotion, but then you must convert the heat into light – the light of awareness. And the most effective way to do that is to share the state you are in with another person. Explain exactly what you are feeling and why. Once another person understands and accepts it, the feeling moves out of the private realm of “personal issues” and into the realm of “shared awareness”. The ideal thing is to have a caring partner (or counsellor/therapist, or even just a drinking buddy) to process them with.
Just to be clear, I am not suggesting to anyone that it is a good idea to “indulge” every emotion so that it begins to run our lives. Emotions should be treated a signals, and as such they are best not ignored.
Extremely interesting article. I can not find myself, as usual. I have qualities and defects that fit in every stage, an enigma to myself.
Why do people that write on Michael Teachings say anything about celebrities? It’s not just you, but others do it too. I’m curious about this. Celebrities have a public mask and a private life. How are their lives relevant when they are known as celebrities and not as people?
I prefer the term famous figures.
The reason why websites like mine compile them: well, speaking for myself, it’s just that knowing the profiles of very well known individuals is very illuminating in terms of grasping how the essence and personality differences show up — more so than reading about people I don’t know.
Where do all these famous profiles come from? Sometimes the channels themselves are keen to get the profiles of, say, the latest presidential candidates. It can be hugely insightful – not so much in terms of who to vote for (for me at least; I’m not an American), but again in terms of having some prominent examples to learn from.
Also, a lot of people go to a channel for a private session and ask for a variety of profiles, usually their own friends, family, colleagues, etc. But in some cases, out of interest, they might also ask for a profile of someone famous who fascinates them – Einstein say – and they may well share the result publicly in a forum. So it’s relatively easy to come across famous profiles and pool them together.
As for the difference between public and private face, that is precisely what the profiles get at. One of the channels (Troy) has a fascinating insight into how people have, as it were, three sets of overleaves, one being their outer mask and one being their true personality. (I think the other, if I remember rightly, is their perceived sense of self.) So it’s not just slebs who have public masks! But the channelled profile is hopefully a revelation of the true personality – and again, there is much to be learned from seeing the differences in action.
Hi,
Since I am a kid am “connected” with the other side. I have experienced so much through different ways and growing up with it. I “feel” the people around me, and so on. I thought that all people were like me and as I grow up, I realized that it was not the case. I kept all this for me as I moved on, as I didn’t want others to think I was making all this up, imagination, etc. So I went on with my life, helping and teaching strangers put on my road for a moment with what I know, helping them grow or go over hard times, after they just disappear.
My family and friends admire my strenght wondering how did I do it as I lived very difficult times in my life. I am not a very “share your problems” person. People judge too much. I don’t and just can’t do it, it is not in my nature.
Still, I feel so lonely in this life and even if I am loved I still under estimate me. Yes I am sad even if I “know”. I don’t know the age of my soul and don’t care knowing it. I am craving for love in this life, like if I never have enough.
Hi Angie
Interesting that you use the word “craving”, as that is often the one thing standing in the way of love.
I have a bunch of questions which may or may not be helpful, but they are what came up for me as I read (and re-read) your account.
First, just to clarify, when you talk of love and loneliness, are you feeling the lack of a basic romantic/sexual/life partnership, or is it a deeper, spiritual communion that you seek – perhaps even being in touch with multiple people, others who also “know” in the deeper way that you do?
Either way, you sound both wise and intuitive, so I’m wondering what has been causing the lack… Can you sense if there is any resistance or obstacle within you? (For example, people sometimes have a belief or attitude that “there is no one out there for me” or “no one could possibly accept me,” and so on.) Just a thought.
When you say you under-estimate yourself, do you mean in terms of capability or do you mean that you are not appreciating your real value?
The surest way to receive love is to give it, as like attracts like. Are you in touch with the love within yourself?
An old soul would only bother to type one sentence.
I see what you did there 😉
I have often wondered if I am an Old Soul. I was told by my Aunt when I was 8 years Old that I was. As I have gotten older, I am 45, I have noticed I like my time alone and I don’t like to talk much. I enjoy my job and it does not bother me at all to be there, in fact I work quit a bit of overtime. I don’t like to be bothered while working unless I initiate the conversation. I am not anti-social by any means, I do enjoy being with my co-workers/friends at work. I do suffer from depression which I am on medication for. I am not materialistic by any means and since I was very young I have continued to give things away. If I don’t need it to survive I don’t buy it. I see myself in my daughter and I often wonder if she is an Old Soul too.
Or you could be a Mature soul, Laura.
I think whenever someone tells us that we look like an old soul, in a general sense (as distinct from this specific framework), it means that they recognise that we are not naive noobies but have clearly learned quite a lot already — and to be frank that could apply to any individual who is anywhere between mid-Young soul and late Old soul.
Liking time alone could mean lots of things; same goes for not liking to talk much and not being bothered by conversations at work (all are true of me, a Mature Scholar).
Enjoying your work simply means that you have found a job that you are happy with, and that may have no relationship to soul age. But it is great thing to have in your life.
Clinical depression isn’t a sign of being an Old soul, it’s common across the spectrum. It’s just that depression is the one psychological disturbance that Old souls can be particularly vulnerable to. A relative of mine has clinical depression, and she’s another Mature Scholar.
I’m not insisting that you’re not an Old soul, Laura. You could be for all I know. But I can see that there are general points that I ought to make clearer in the text itself to enable people to assess themselves more precisely.
Thanks for getting in touch.
Barry
Thank you for your input. It’s funny you say Mature Soul. When reading both Mature and Old I saw myself in both. I often wonder about my 17 year Old daughter. She has always been “different” then the other kids, In Preschool she was put in the 5 and 6 year Old group when she was 3 because she could relate better. She does not like to hang out with her friends from Elementary School because they are all doing drugs, alcohol and getting pregnant. She is in Independent Studies because she does not want to deal with all the drama in the High School scene. She can not wait to be done with High School so she can move on to College. She hangs out with College students now.
She also acts more refined than your normal teenager. Her personality portrays someone who has done all the monotonous stuff and does not want to do it again. High School, drivers ed, monotonous jobs that teenagers do, the drug scene, etc.
Great Job. The site content and material intrigued, provoked, and entertained me for about an hour and a half. Don’t mean to sound sarcastic, as an hour and a half of any mass media sponsored material is about an hour longer then usual for me to be entertained by. ;0)
p.s………could not find any links to take a soul self assessment test on Kings, Warriors, Servers, Priest, etc. Pegged my traits as an old soul by the time I was done reading the second paragraph of this page. Took an assessment test from somewhere that confirmed it. So what now ??? “Does anyone really care what time it is? “………….. or how old or young a soul is ? cause I sure don’t. Not trying to be negative. I am simply having a hard time calculating the value(s) and what the knowledge (or suggestion) of information brings forth fruit, value, or benefit too???
Hi Stephen
I have a soul type questionnaire here: http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/atufj3C/Discover-Your-Soul-Type
These teachings generally appeal to Mature Souls, who feel the need to know who they are and understand the meaning of life.
Younger souls don’t get it so much – they are out to prove themselves in the world, not discover their inner selves, or the equal value of others. And typically they will want to be an ‘Old King’ or nothing at all.
Old souls tend to look at it, think “We’ll, yeah, that’s just obvious,” and then move on. They’ve already been there, done that, etc.
Thanks for the link. Yea. “Been there, done that” had entered my mind quite a few times after browsing through for the first time. Yet again just another concept that makes me feel old. LOL
So many souls who reflect all they want to do is be King. To much work and responsibility in my opinion. I would rather be a Kings entertainer myself. So its not at all surprising that my assessment resulted as Artisan.
Thank you for all your time and hard work in paving this path. It is nice to have a site that inspires and allows for people to take a deeper look into their souls.
Many thanks Stephen.
;0)
I would be interested in verbal communication and exchange with other Old soul Artisans in case any other shares the same sediments. Is there a forum or something for souls to connect; or just the use of the comments section(s)?
Yep, you can try the following:
Just google “michael teachings forum” or “michael teachings discussion group”
Nice. Thank you.
I couldn’t keep my jaw from dropping throughout this read, while the other soul stages kept me equally as interested. My jaw was about to fall to the floor because point after point proved to me that I am an old soul. The question is, what level am I at? It may be that I am actually at a later level, if not the last, the at least one or two before it. I say this with the least ego-driven confidence because I have never been too keen on perceiving through ego, and I had my first (true) spiritual awakening at the young age of 18. Unsurprisingly, a mere few months before this existence shattering awakening, I was told by a girl of the same age that I had an old soul. No idea what she meant at the time, but it did come from a long and what most would call deep conversation. Now I’m 23 and I am more aware of what is every day, and that is the perfectly pristine nature of reality which excludes itself from duality while paradoxically appearing to manifest it all at once. Every day, regardless of what emotions I may fearlessly experience, I feel this undying and unchanging underlying and all-encompassing unconditional love, through every experience and every potential experience. It’s like I simply let the paint of conditioning peel and fall naturally, watching the surrealistically bright light burst through to no end. There is nothing more beautiful than the awareness of truth, and because no thing could exist without it, every bit of this apparent reality is unquestionably in constant, equal beauty in itself. Nothing could ever change that uniform love, although our fascinating minds tend to pretend otherwise. I could say it’s fun and happy and glorified, but then I’d ultimately be lying. So I’ll just stick with this: “It is.”
Hi Ryan
Thank you so much for getting in touch, and I am delighted that you have been able to resonate with this description of the old soul. Even though I am a Mature soul, I do believe I know a late-level Old soul when I hear one. So… Hi!
Your awakening experience as a teen reminds me of Ramana Maharshi, who awakened through a self-induced near-death experience at age 16. I have had my own brief glimpses of truth, but I know that I am not immersed in it as an abiding experience.
I am tempted to recommend all readers to read your later remarks, as a way to illustrate the thought processes at such a level.
Cheers!
Barry
Thanks for your quick reply! Something I meant to add, whether you want to take it seriously or pass it as a fun thing to notice, the date of our posts, May 4th, 2013, is a date of great order by the notion of numerology. No, you don’t have to add and divide, and there’s no “number 23” to come across, this is simpler. The date represents 0-5 easily, and I just found it interesting. From 2013; 0.1.2. and 3, and then the 4th of the 5th month make up the 0-5.
Back on track, I’d be more than okay with you recommending my later remarks. It makes so much sense why this has felt so effortless for me, yet so impossible for others. If the soul stages and levels are true, and I have no sense of resistance against it, then it only fits that the reason I had an early awakening (not unlike my favorite speaker/teacher, Adyashanti) and that I have at this young age a daily, abiding sense of awakening, is because I am nearing my end to the reincarnation process.
I used to feel less connected to the idea of reincarnation, unsure of just what it meant, but reading through your writings have made it much easier for me to accept as a truth rather than a theory. Simply looking at it as being incarnate as human again and again, until seamless awakening is apparent, at which point becoming incarnate as human is no longer necessary, makes perfect sense. I always said the purpose of (human) life is to be aware, and this only flows with that statement.
To further strengthen my sense of being a later-level old soul, I’d like to point out that I embrace duality on a full spectrum level. This awareness is not something I try to do, it is more of an allowing. My interests in general are so diverse, it’s very difficult to pinpoint who I appear to be. Sure, I have my apparently separate opinions and likes and dislikes, but the point is that I effortlessly fit the universal puzzle piece of unconditional love into every part of my experience. By accepting things as the way they are and at least loosening your grip of the way you think things should be, you can allow yourself to appreciate things on a level that does not involve the ego. Obviously, this includes the idea of human death, but more importantly ego death (and rebirth).
Thank you for sharing.
There are multiple ways to skin a cat.
Lessons in life, may they be precived as negative, are not bad, they are just that, lessons to better know ones self and reach the awareness that gives you the perspective you seek.
The insight this reading has shared has helped me, we run into the places and people we are meant to, everything has meaning, we just need to realize.
The older I get, the younger I feel. Keep smiling and let yourself wake up! 🙂
If I have learn anything is that I am only at the tip of the iceberg and it’s marvelous.
Breaking one habit at a time!
– Mateo
Question……….Why would a young soul…….or ANY soul for the matter……..proclaim to be “old school” when it is clearly evident that soul has never walked a single step in the “old world” both spiritually speaking and literally speaking???
Sorry, Stephen, I dont understand what the question is referring to.
Probably just my, other peoples, or a mixture of both, misunderstanding, or misrepresentation, of terminology, value system, or both. I may be attempting to make a connection where there is no connection. I hear people declare fairly frequently that they are “old school” which would define that they mostly retain older value systems. Yet, according to what I have read regarding soul age, their character reflects the values of a younger soul. Would not a soul age contrast a souls reflective value system(s)?. I have read very little in regards to soul age and am simply attempting to get a better understanding and make the connection between soul age and human psychology…….
As I understand it, “old school” is simply the current slang term for “old fashioned”, but meant in a respectful way, with certain implications. I think when a young person refers to themselves as “old school”, the implied message goes something like this: “Although we kids are expected to reject outright the ways of the the previous generation, I can actually recognise things of value from that era, and I am openly willing to embrace those things. That shows that I have state-of-the-art discrimination and a mind of my own.” And when the term is used by an older person to describe themselves, I suspect what they mean is “I am stuck in my ways … but maybe that’s OK.”
What strikes me is the idea that the past can hold *anything* of value. I think this idea was rejected (in our culture at least) around the middle of the 20th century – after all, glorifying the past had given us two world wars. From about 1960 onwards, it seemed appropriate to utterly forget the past and create the modern world anew. But then the 70s generation would reject the 60s, the 80s generation rejected the 70s, and so on. Until now that is, where “retro” styling has become fashionable and an “old school” mentality is respectable. I think we’ve just gone full circle – modernity was defined by rejecting the past, so to be post-modern you have to reject the mentality of rejecting the past!
Now relating this to soul age… People’s value systems are affected not only by their soul age but also their physical age – or rather, their psychological development as they physically age. A typical Mature soul at the age of 20 will think and act pretty much like a typical Young soul at the age of 40 – brash, competitive, ambitious. The Mature soul won’t really think and act predominantly like a Mature soul until they are past the age of approx 35, because it takes that long for each of us, in each lifetime, to grow to our “full strength” in terms of awareness. So what you might find is that a Young soul will have similar values at 20 and 40, whereas a Mature soul is more likely to have a drastic change in values.
So, I’m still not clear how to relate this to the “old school” term, but maybe things are making more sense from where you’re standing!?
Your articulate response has provoked greater understanding! My cognition process tends to many times either over complicate or simply not fully grasp a concept. I may need to read that a time or two again, but it has allowed me a deeper understanding regarding soul age as it relates to human behavior. I am not sure I have yet to fully grasp a measurement of soul age and how it is interconnected to human values, but your articulated response has certainly allowed me for a more in depth understanding. Human behavior and psychology have always been intriguing subjects to me as I grow in age, both from a physical and spiritual perspective. I analyze it as much to help me measure my own self awareness as I do to obtain a basic understanding of common human behavior, as I try and focus to balance observation, understanding, and analyzing, without violating or incorporating inaccurate or unfair judgement. I have experienced an a-typical upbringing where human emotion has played a significant role in my understanding of human behavior and the ability to accurately asses and analyze human behavior. The concept of measuring soul age, while intriguing, is a new concept to me and I am simply trying to grasp its basic founding concepts. Thank you for the time to provide such an articulated response. It has helped and is greatly appreciated.
Great. Cheers Stephen.
B
I feel I am a mature soul, but closer to “young” than “old”. I work among high achieving professionals, doctors and nurses. I do not share the desire to “climb” the professional ladder. I am in my mid 40’s and a mother of four.
I want my children to be happy, productive members of society. I have always told them to do what they love and feel passionate about. Along with this I have felt guilt for not pushing them toward higher, competitive educational institutions. I sometimes feel as if I have let them down by not pushing them harder. This conflict is within me always. I now feel I understand my “apathetic” approach to parenting and perhaps it is not “apathetic” at all.
Yes, perhaps it is actually very freeing. And perhaps your kids knew what they were doing when they picked you!
Cheers Marie
B
I have questions to which answers may not be answers, but would like to ask said questions anyway. I’m 24 (I know this holds no baring, I just feel like putting it here since others seem to for some reason?) and feel an old soul is what I am. I don’t know it, I don’t believe anyone can ‘know’, only perceive and agree on where pieces of the puzzle fit, not that that defines it as ‘knowing’. If knowledge is based on understanding, and understanding is based on perception of things, does that not suggest knowledge is based on one’s perception and is not knowledge, only our limited intake of information? I’ve read this page many times and feel it resonate but I still cannot help but question what I am. If nothing is right or wrong, why do we seek to change the states we slip into? I am one of the apathetic and world-weary you’ve mentioned. Why is it when we become such, we try to change it? If it is how we are, why do we attempt to change it? This feels like my end, my walking upon the Earth until I return to where we began. I feel that everything is unimportant, only my bonds to my family remain. But why do I make a conscious effort to I continuously seek confirmation, though I know I never find such confirmation because confirming such is limited to the limited perception we can attain as a physical form? How do we truly know we’re an old soul? Are our feelings so accurate, and what makes them accurate? They are chemical, of our physical forms, how can we trust how we feel or think? How do we know what level we truly are on? Words people tell us do not define us. Can we ever truly ‘know’ anything while in this form, can we ever truly ‘know’ which stage we are in when answers cannot be determined as definitive? I’d like to know where others stand in this, I feel like I am in endless torment…
Hi Matthew
Thanks for getting in touch. Sorry to hear you’re in such torment, but you raise many interesting points.
“Words people tell us do not define us.” Well, you’re definitely not a baby soul then!
Your physical age has a bearing on how fully your soul’s level of consciousness is being experienced and expressed in everyday life. Usually it is not until past the age of 35 that we manifest fully. Before then, it’s as if we begin each life at square one as infant souls – we don’t LITERALLY start over in each life, it’s just that we simply cannot manifest much of (say) our mature soul empathy or old soul wisdom when we are so immersed in handling life in a little, helpless body with little or no communication skills. And of course there is also the ‘spiritual amnesia’ that comes over us at birth, so we don’t have ready access to our soul’s knowledge and memory.
Over 3 or 4 decades, we manifest more and more of our true self. So for example, an old soul might inwardly feel old and wise from an early age, but outwardly act more like a baby soul at (say) age 10, a young soul at age 20, a mature soul at age 30. I have often stated that at age 20 I would have seen myself as a young soul as I was so immersed in ego and materialistic concerns. At 24, you sound like you may be a bit further on than I was at that age.
There are also age-related factors in any life that might be taken for signs of soul age but are simply normal human behaviour. For example, a teenager might read that old souls are “detached from material concerns” and think, That’s me! But it’s just their rebellious view of life as teenagers. So it’s useful to know how physically old someone is when discussing possible soul age.
You are undoubtedly correct that knowledge / understanding is based on one’s perceptions, which are inevitably limited and potentially distorted. However, that is precisely what soul evolution is about – as we evolve, our perception expands, deepens, enriches. There are always sensory limitations imposed by the body and brain, but I am really referring to limitations in the interpretation of what is sensed, and these gradually dissolve as the soul learns from repeated experience.
An older soul in a human body has the same sensory limitations as any younger soul, but will understand a given situation very differently. For example, an infant soul has little or no appreciation of what goes on in the minds of others, and therefore not a lot of compassion. A mature soul, however, takes it for granted that the hearts and minds of others are just as valid and worth knowing as one’s own. Old souls, paradoxically, can come across as more indifferent than mature souls – I think that this is because they don’t react to human troubles (suffering, injustice) with quite the same degree of alarm. There’s a bigger picture going on.
“If nothing is right or wrong, why do we seek to change the states we slip into?”
From the highest perspective, there is nothing right or wrong. Everything just is, and all that is is perfect. From the perspective of a personality (an incarnate consciousness), there is virtually no escape from the sense that some things in life ought to be changed. Life is constant change, and we are here to participate in it – in whatever way seems ‘right’ to us. And our sense of ‘right’ will alter as we evolve.
The dramas of human life in which people perceive right and wrong are a deliberate ‘game’ designed to promote evolution. If you see things in life that you want to change, that doesn’t mean you are unevolved. It means you are in the right place at the right time for you – as an evolving soul – to make what you consider to be the right choice. Even the most evolved people in history such as Buddha and Christ tried to change things – to bring more love and light into this world.
There is no reason to assume that to do life ‘right’ as an old soul (or at any other stage) you have to deny your own desires and preferences … though there are entire philosophies based on exactly that premise! And beware imagining that because old souls can be apathetic about life, then the more apathetic you are, the more evolved you must be – it doesn’t work like that!
If you can identify with much of the old soul description, fine. But only in your last life at the 7th level of the cycle would you be so detached and on top of it all that you would have no issues. Before that level is reached, all old souls are just doing the same as everyone else – facing tough choices in human life. It’s just that the choices are different.
There are three ways i know of to get an insight into your soul age –
1. Read descriptions such as those on this site (try others as well) and see what resonates the most
2. Go inside yourself and seek out your deepest, most authentic sense of self.
3. Ask a Michael channel.
I am (… s-l-o-w-l-y…) working on a questionnaire that should help people pinpoint themselves, but it is pretty challenging to differentiate soul age from physical age.
PS –
“Can we ever truly ‘know’ anything while in this form?”
There is a type of inner knowing that is absolute and beyond any uncertainty – this is the direct experience of truth/reality/being, where there is (for a moment at least) no longer any distinction between perceived and perceived – just the truth knowing its own truth. This sudden knowingness goes by various names – awakening, enlightenment, satori, kensho. However, it is beyond even the limitations of soul age perception. No-one has ever had such an experience and gone “aha, so I’m a 6th level mature artisan” or whatever. Rather, they say “I am,” or “Life is eternal” – the insights are at the purest level of being.
Laura
07 Apr 2013 at 5:26 pm
Thank you for your input. It’s funny you say Mature Soul. When reading both Mature and Old I saw myself in both. I often wonder about my 17 year Old daughter. She has always been “different” then the other kids, In Preschool she was put in the 5 and 6 year Old group when she was 3 because she could relate better. She does not like to hang out with her friends from Elementary School because they are all doing drugs, alcohol and getting pregnant. She is in Independent Studies because she does not want to deal with all the drama in the High School scene. She can not wait to be done with High School so she can move on to College. She hangs out with College students now.
She also acts more refined than your normal teenager. Her personality portrays someone who has done all the monotonous stuff and does not want to do it again. High School, drivers ed, monotonous jobs that teenagers do, the drug scene, etc.
I am interested on this subject because I was once told to be going through my last reincarnation…
Hello,
I stumbled upon your website and spent my whole day wandering around. It really is a fascinating and plausible theory. But how could I determine my soul age without going to a seminar as I don’t have the possibility to go? I’m 20 and feel really old for my age, though I’m not sure if I relate better to the mature soul or the old one.
Hi zaura
I’m not sure what seminars you are referring to, but the way to get a profile/chart of your soul (“essence”) and personality (“overleaves”) is to consult a Michael channel. I have links to several of them at the bottom of my page on the Michael teachings:
https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/
Most if not all will do readings by email and/or phone/Skype.
Cheers
B
https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/enlightenment-intensives/ these ones.
Thank you very much for your reply 🙂
What soul type would you say Marcus Aurelius is? he’s personally my favorite roman emperor and one of the most admirable people to have lived. If you read his book he seems like an odd mix of priest and scholar, but looking at a bust (especially the one portraying him as a young man, where the beard doesn’t interfere with the chin) he seems to have perhaps a bit of artisan or king. Odd mixture, I know.
No information has ever actually been found about his eyes, so priest may be a difficult one to prove.
The acticle that I just read says he is an ‘old soul’
According to one of the first Michael sessions recorded in 1973, Marcus Aurelius was an Old Scholar:
“MARCUS AURELIUS WAS AN OLD SCHOLAR —
A GREAT PHILOSOPHER, BUT A POOR LEADER.”
Statues and busts of Roman emperors (also Egyptian pharaohs etc) tended to be idealised rather than realistic – a lot of “airbrushing” to make the leader look god-like and heroic.
This is a long post but please take the time to read it if you would!
Hi I have been told i was an old soul but I’m not so sure. It fits me more then the others I guess but I feel guilty i want to end my life. You see I’ve been in multiple accidents at young ages and have gotten brain damage and i irreversible skeletal damage. I’m In pain a lot and the individual self imposed self esteem I’ve given myself is shattered as well. because of my deformed body and injured mind. I must know, is it okay to end this life and try again? Genetically assuming I didn’t have these injures I would already be out there helping in ever way I can. I want nothing more then to help people but I don’t believe I can do it very well in the physical and mental state I am in. I understand all my mistakes and how to live my next life but is that enough? I feel the longer I wait the more the world suffers but my physical body as injured and the pain I feel makes it hard and it feels ill never be quite there. Two things I worry about if I did let this body go. I don’t want my family to grieve me and I don’t want to start all the stages over again. The world is drawing to a dangerous point and it can’t wait for me to start over if I plan to help. Please give my insight. I am only 19 years old and my whole life I tried my best to figure it out myself. Now I know I’ve only needed to seek the the right influences. So is it enough I know these things, or am I meant to over come these random tragedies not always my doing for the sake of some sort of spiritual growth? Please insight is what I need more then anything. I don’t want to make the wrong choice. Physical pain sucks and a shattered self image is hard to be outgrowing to help.
I know to some my pain and deformed body is no reason to feel hopeless. But these are the same people who partake in the day by day bullshit and living for the weekend crap and buying stuff stuff stuff I just don’t care about. In fact the thought of that life, it all makes me sick.
So suicide what are the details of that, any justification? What are the punishments? If I have to live a healthy long life idk if the world can wait that long until I can come back to make the impact this world needs.
Suicide is seen as greedy and leaves loved ones sad. The thought I want to do this just makes me think I may just be an infant soul to weak to work hard without some inner contentment. I will say, I now only feel anything at all when I help others. Everything else has become pointless since I’ve come to terms with my injuries. I feel myself is a lost cause. With an old or mature should please shed light app-on me.
Don’t fear me taking my life right away, I’m am rational enough to stick around and help my family grow into themselfs. Like my little sister. She does not deserve to morn her brother not to mention my older siblings and the investments my dad and mom have put into me. I naturally feel they will feel guilt regardless of how they shouldn’t.
Thank you, love and peace once and for all.
Hi Andrew
Thanks for getting in touch, and I’m really sorry to learn of your predicament.
Don’t worry – I don’t “fear” you taking your life. If that’s your choice, I respect it. I appreciate where you are coming from and the choice you are contemplating.
“is it okay to end this life and try again?”
Yes, absolutely okay in the sense that no one “up there” is going to tell you off or punish you. Certainly, there is no sin in suicide. It’s just a decision to return Home earlier than planned, like cutting short a business trip. No one’s going to blame you for wanting to get out of a life that you find intolerable. Although, it would’t be so clear-cut if you were knowingly leaving behind dependants who needed your support and would suffer without it. In that case, you are choosing to cause suffering to others, and that’s karmic.
I’m not going to say whether you **should** or **shouldn’t** end your life, of course. It’s a free choice without any “should” one way or another. I can’t simply tell you “yes” or “no.”
For one thing, thats not my responsibility. It’s your choice, and it’s up to you make this (or any) choice for your own reasons, or none. Whatever you choose, and why you choose it, is your decision alone.
For another thing, there are actually no right or wrong choices from the soul’s perspective. We are here to choose whatever we choose. With that in mind, I can offer you some scenarios you might want to think about.
First, it is possible (actually highly probable) that you planned to undergo this life with this injury and physical suffering. There would no doubt be some good reason for that decision. And if I were in your shoes, I would either want to understand what it’s all about and how it serves me and/or others, or, if I couldn’t find such understanding, then I might decide to trust that I (as a soul, before birth) knew what I was doing when planned this, and that maybe something good will come of it.
One possibility is that it’s karmic (if, say, you inflicted such suffering in the past), in which case there could be a sense in which you are here precisely to experience it, at least to begin with – we often get karmic experiences early in life. That’s not to say “it’s all your fault so you should suck it up” – you are free to choose to duck out, but if it is karmic then there’s a **possibility** you have signed up to undergo a whole life with this. And if that’s the case, then you’ll probably come right back and try it again.
A second possibility is that you have some wonderful plan for this life, whereby you will eventually use these challenging experiences to both help and inspire others. For example, perhaps you will find some way of dealing with pain that will be of great value to many people.
I would point out that you are at an age in which you are probably undergoing one of the major life transitions. it’s known in the Michael teachings as the “3rd internal monad.” (I’ve mentioned this several times in my various comment responses – it really is time I did a proper article on it.) In brief: there are 7 essential pivotal points in life, each involving a step-change in one’s sense of self and orientation to life. The first is physical birth, the second is “ego birth” (around 2-3, when we develop an internal sense of self based on social interactions). The third is the transition to adulthood, which isn’t simply the culmination of puberty but is marked by the decision to step out independently into the world, deliberately choosing our own path, and also presenting a public identity of our own choosing (15-20 ish).
It’s possible that you planned to get to this point and then bail out. But it’s also possible that you only feel like bailing out because you are facing this transition. In which case, if you do “bail out”, you may run the risk of abdicating this transitionary step, and you will simply have to face it again next time around. Not because anyone is forcing you to, but because you (in your essence) feel the importance and necessity of it.
Something else I would like to point out. You say more than once: “The world is drawing to a dangerous point and it can’t wait for me to start over if I plan to help.” We’ll, yes it can. The world isn’t waiting for you and only you to save it. You are not the only one working to save it. You are one of billions of souls playing this massive multiplayer game, some acting destructively, some acting more positively, but no one has sole responsibility for anything other than their own life choices. Beware developing a grandiose self-image.
I’ve pointed out a number of possibilities here, but if you want more direct insight you might want to get a reading, either from a Michael channel (there’s a list at the bottom of my page on the Michael teachings – https://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/ ) or from a medium who accesses pre-life plans (google pre-life soul plan medium).
There is also a book I would strongly recommend to you which features a number of these mediums (including their contact details) giving readings of several people each in their own difficult life situations. The book is called Your Soul’s Plan, by Robert Schwartz. You can see my posting about it here: https://personalityspirituality.net/2010/02/19/your-souls-plan-book-review/
I hope I’ve given you some food for thought.
Cheers
Barry
Great response, I’d like to add that from what the wisdom I’ve gathered, committing suicide is never written in as part of your plan as part of a physical incarnation. It is your intention to carry out whatever you came here to do and it may just be that it is going to take more time to discover your real purpose. Don’t give up, even though you won’t be ‘judged’ for taking an early exit you will more than likely regret your decision once you have the full perspective of your entire incarnation cycle again back in the spiritual realm. You will more than likely choose another lifetime with similar circumstances to the one you have now, in order, in your own personal way, to ‘get it right’ and persevere through it. Even though your circumstances may be tough you are here because you (and your spirit guides) knew that you could handle it. You can either wallow in your perceived misfortune or be an inspiratiom to other struggling souls. Choosing the latter will elevate your soul and provide enlightenment to yourself and others.
Best of luck and stay strong.
Great arrival. I read it because my 4 month old daughter. The minute she was born she has been very focused, very strong and seems like she is just fascinated by everything. Afraid to sleep or turn away because she might miss something that could happen. New soul? I think brand new soul.
Hi, I’m rather new to this. I’m 20 years old and a few weeks ago I had a pranic healing session for the first time. I was more curious than skeptical. After, I was told that I had a very old soul and that my name did not match my soul. That last part has been on my mind lately. Do you have anything you can tell me about that? So far from your article, I’m definatly a scholar soul too. I tend to be almost exclusively negative pole oriented.Anyway, any information on the name bit would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi Nicholas
No, I haven’t heard of this before. In the books by Michael Newton on between-lives regression, some people in that state give their soul names (such as ‘Oriel’), but I’m not sure if any of our human names *ever* ‘match our souls’.
Intriguing.
B
Thanks for all the info! I just have one question…
How can you make distinction between an old soul and a very introvert person? (In age till around 18 years old, at middle- and high school age)
Hi Spacedweller
I am not aware of any direct correlation between introversion and old soul age. Certainly, Young Souls tend to be the most extroverted, but there can be introverted and extroverted traits at any soul age. I suppose an Old Soul who is relaxed, unhurried, laid back and uninvolved in the rate race could seem to a Young soul to be almost pathologically withdrawn!
Introversion refers to the kind of personality that naturally feels drained of energy by social interaction but gains energy through solitude and quiet reflection. The opposite is true for extraversion. Introverts find low-level conversation to be a bit of an effort, while extroverts thrive on it, and they might regard that quiet types as “backward in coming forward” or else too self-important to bother with small talk.
In my view, the things that typically make for introversion include Scholar role, mode of Observation, Repression or Caution, goal of Retardation, chief feature of Self-Deprecation. One can be an old soul and have some these traits. Or, one can be an Old Soul with much more extroverted traits, such as Sage role, mode of Passion, Power or Aggression, goal of Growth, Dominance or Acceptance, and chief feature of Arrogance. These would all lend the Old soul an outgoing personality.
Mature souls tend to be the most introverted on average, in the sense that they deliberately focus more on psychological meanings, thoughts and feelings. Old souls tend to rise above all that, finding ways to balance the internal and the external, unifying their inner and outer concerns.
Bottom line: introversion and soul age are mostly two different things.
Interesting information 🙂 I was told by Sananda who is the huge energy over soul of Jesus/Jeshua I am an ancient wise soul.
You say that once a soul finishes all 35 stages of soul progression, they reunite with other souls in the higher plane of existence and no longer feel the need to reincarnate back on Earth. I’m just wondering, however, is it possible that once a soul has finished Earth school they may want to start reincarnating on a completely different planet as a completely different species with a completely different set of lessons to learn? Alien species may, after all, have a completely alien way of thinking and processing information and have a completely alternate perspective on life that is just unfathomable and would never occur to humans, but is nevertheless just as important. Or is graduating from Earth school really the end of physical reincarnation for good?
Hi there. As far as I can gather, most of us probably have done other planets/species before and will do more in the future. (Not “us” in the sense of the individuals we are right now, but as eternal sparks of light.) We don’t do the switch right after finishing reincarnation, however, as there are a couple of higher stages of integration to evolve through in the higher planes of consciousness before we are ready to fragment, dive in, and do it all again…
B
What does it mean to be a transcended soul?(If the term even exists)
And i get how the 35 steps work, but what happens after this soul evolution has completed? Does it become one with the Tao or what? 🙂
Where is this al going? What is the ‘end’ of progression for a soul and what does it do then?
In short i find it a bit unclear what happens after you’ve been a last Life old soul. Hope somebody could share some information. Thanks!
Hi Barry and the site is very enlightening and it makes a lot of sense. I have a question regarding a point you made above. You had mentioned that one of the main issues old souls face has less to psychological or materialistic but rather ‘existential’. I am aware of its definition but can you please elaborate as to how this applies to old souls? I appreciation your time and insight in advance…
Hi Alex
First I should point out that I don’t want to imply that existential issues are strictly reserved for old souls. Many or most Mature souls face an existential crisis.
Young souls don’t really question the nature or purpose of existence, either personally (“Who am I?”) or cosmically (“What’s it all mean?”). They are too busy and focused on their outer tasks.
Mature souls, in contrast, will naturally pause and reflect. Their attention is often caught by such questions.
The thing is, when a Mature soul asks “who am I?” or “what’s the point?”, they feel forced to let go of fixed beliefs and old certainties and wonder if there’s anything real left to grab hold of. Then, maybe they’ll find it – some belief system or inner path that provides a way forward.
For example, they may dabble with Buddhism or quantum physics as “the answer”, and feel that it is good enough for now.
But eventually they sense that we are all making this up as we go along — making sense out of life without truly knowing “the answer”. So we each have to find our own way to construct meaning out of life. Whatever construct fits me for now is good enough, and if your construct is different from mine, so be it, or if my construct keeps changing as I learn more, then so be it.
That’s the Mature soul. For an Old soul, there’s a whole other level to it. They realise not only that life as it is perceived is little more than a construct, but that mere constructs are nothing. Reality is not what it seems, even when it is perceived negatively. “Life has no meaning” is just as much an empty mental construct as “Life is like a box of chocolates.”
The old soul must rise above predefined constructs and assert the meaning of life for themselves. They don’t just seek to understand life’s meaning and purpose. Rather, they give life meaning and purpose by how they live — with their own truest meaning and purpose. For the old soul, the existential issue isn’t one of finding “the” meaning of life by reading as many books as possible; it’s one of expressing/demonstrating a valid meaning – even a whole new meaning – by being utterly true to oneself.
Existential issues and self-questions are often the inroad to spiritual realisation. Many Mature souls ask the right questions but then get stuck in looking for an intellectual answer in science/philosophy, or an emotional answer in art. Old souls don’t so much look for an answer as create their own, sensing that by being true to themselves they are simultaneously being true to the very nature of life.
For a Mature soul, life occasionally raises existential issues that can be resolved by shifting focus inward and finding a satisfactory answer. For an Old soul, life itself is an existential issue that is resolved only by BEING the answer.
… I hope that makes sense!
Barry
Gosh, I have searched everywhere for people,anyone who can enlighthen me,someone who can help me see d path am to thread to this oness,cos I feel I like I can’t explain myself, how @ peace am wit everytin,in oness wit my soul,in search for the Supreme being,can anyone just help me out,I have been looking @ d stars ever since I was a teenager,with the knowledge of lifes out of our world,I tink I am going crazy @ times,I have read so many,travelled in search of knowledge, till I read d bhaghavad Gita,den my real search begin,pls who can help…am a nigerian and here is my blackberry pin 21E0B09E and here is my facebook id “Vitello Majekobaje” (gave myself d Vitello,its an italian name,out of my obsession for them)
I was wondering whether it’s any use to try too find out your soul age before reaching your 40’s?
Hi Dimitri,
Very interesting question. I suppose the risk is that our egos at that age can get rather too invested in the result.
If, at the age of 20, I had been wrongly told that I was an Old soul (which I was on my first reading, age 38), I would probably have developed a degree of arrogance and inappropriate behaviours, like trying to act guru-ish. Or if I had been wrongly told that I was a Young soul, I reckon that would have really tortured my (Mature) soul for many years!
I do think it’s useful to know the Role and the overleaves, however.
A lot of people who get proper readings from a channel are young (20-ish), which is one of the peak times for wondering who we are, especially those with Goal of Growth. At that age I was fashionably cynical, but setting off into the adult world not knowing the first thing about myself (Self-Deprecation had drawn a big, black curtain around my sense of self.) But had I known of the opportunity to have a reading (and if the internet had existed at the time) I would probably have gone for it out of curiosity and an urge to have myself described “objectively” by a wise being. I would have found it reassuring to know that I was a Scholar, and that being a Scholar is as valid as being any other type, and that the meaning of life isn’t to “become a King or fail” as it were.
To complicate my answer further, I think an Old soul at age 20 would handle the information much better than a Mature or younger soul. There would be less ego and anxiety reacting to it.
But to return to your question: is trying to find out your soul age before reaching your 40’s of ANY USE, I suspect that’s a very individual thing. I also suspect that if you mysteriously “acquire” that information at a young age, then it is likely that you planned it before birth for some reason as part of tour bigger life plan.
Not the clearest answer I’ve ever given, but I’ve enjoyed thinking about it. Cheers Dimitri!
Barry
Haha, complicated answers, my favorite 🙂 Gives me plenty of things to think about.
I asked about Soul Age, because that’s how I first found the MT.
I (believe to) have found my overleaves;
Artisan
Acceptance
Caution
Idealist
Intellectual Center
Self-Deprecation
,which helped me a lot the last few months (“O wait, that’s self-deprecation acting up again”), and so I returned to the question of Soul Age again.
I secretly dreaded the idea of being a Mature soul when I first read about it. It seemed so dramatic (especially the stage that I saw labelled as “most difficult of any level” haha) and I was really interested in the Old Soul detachment. I noticed my bias towards this and kind of decided to leave it at not knowing my soul age for sure.
I believe I’m a Mature soul and that I am sometimes modelling old soul behavior OR am a 1st/2nd level old soul who is in a mature stage.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, you must have to make a lot of replies!
Best wishes
You have no idea! I have a backlog going back two months (sorry to everyone who’s still waiting!). Trying to catch up after a period of illness and general busy-ness.
is there a way to recognize old souls by palm reading? if so.. what it is?
Hmmm.. Great question. I have no idea to be honest. I do believe that some physical things correlate with aspects of personality, such as finger-length ratio and goal of dominance, but no idea about soul age and palm patterns. It would be great to do some research…
B
Where are the women? Do they not reincarnate? There were so few examples of women!
I really liked this article. I’m an old soul and a lot of my psychic friends tell me that my soul is very old for a fifteen-year-old. I’ve recently been reading a lot about the stages of souls and I find it so interesting, and all of it makes a lot of sense! I have been able to successfully retrieve small fractions of about two past lives and it can be exhausting afterwards, but it helps me see where my love and fears of particular things come from.
Anyway, very good article. I enjoyed reading this!
Great – cheers Val.
barry
For the past years even before the revelation i was known to be the person to chose to talk to among friends who have emotional issues, because I was able to give a broad perspective about life and things, which ease the process of their recovering. Many of them did not immediately understood my words until they learned the same from other source.
I’ve long questioning myself about the lack of enthusiasm in ambitious pursuing, until 2 years ago at age 35 (at early 2012) when I discovered Michael Teachings. (or should I said i was finally opened). From MT I learned the soul ages especially young, mature and old. At that moment it was the biggest revelation ever for me. I suddenly understood so many things and the whole picture is finally puzzled up! Later that came the period of peace and acceptance of my own being. I was certain that I am older than YOUNG soul so I assumed I am MATURE. But recently (after 2 years) there has been another pull to make me revisited MT and I found out that I am more closely described as an OLD soul. I then started to refer to other sites and today I landed this site at this article and I am quite convinced that I am OLD! Lol! Is there any other way to confirm this?
Hi there Kevin,
Given the fact that your are now in your late 30s and therefore at or approaching the plateau in terms of manifesting the full depth of your soul’s consciousness, i.e. true soul age, then your resonating now with the Old soul stage is itself a form of “confirmation”.
The thing is, as you seek to manifest more of your true self, to develop that inner sensitivity or self-validation (“Does this actually feel right to me? Does it chime with my deepest and truest sense of self?”), rather than rely only on external input, though I suspect you may be well aware of that by now. 🙂
barry
Im only 15 and 8 months. And i know im an old soul. Ive feelt mature for many years until i turned 15 and started to be more open minded and open hearted. Everyday i improve and im already feeling al those old charestic. My goal is to meet the one (done), get married and have children. My purpouse is a meaningfull life doing what makes me happy and go witht the flow. I even think im at level 6 old soul a couple of days ago i though 4 but no i think 6 today. I even meditated yestersay about this life choose. It just came to me im almost finished in my path but i had a few things to do and clear up an some few things to learn. I even help my friends with their life and i spread love. Ive always loved spiritual things and always wanted things with meaning.
Thanks Rima, I hope your intuitions are accurate!
Cheers
Barry
Can you clarify the point of an old soul having an outpost?
Explain?
Does it really matter what stage we are? We are one with all that is. The only thing we need to see is within. Cassandra
It matters if it matters to you, but not if it doesn’t. If, let’s say, ‘Alice’ finds some value in stumbling upon the concept of soul age, such as a liberating insight, and if understanding where she and others currently are in their respective soul ages further helps her to better understand herself and others with greater compassion, then I would imagine it probably “matters” to her. And I don’t think that would be a contradiction of the ultimate truth of the unity of all that is, which can only be directly experienced within our own being.
What about the question of achievement and wealth. I’ve read more than one website on this subject and I’m getting the impression that Old Souls are not concerned about wealth and celebrity other than pursuing their path. You’ve quoted people such as Morgan Freeman being an Old Soul but the question is would it be wrong to want to be ‘successful’?
Hi,
From a higher perspective, there is nothing wrong in wanting anything, period. It’s all part of life’s rich tapestry.
Old Souls certainly are, or rather they become, less materialistic in comparison to Young souls. By the end of the cycle, they just don’t care. But remember that there are seven steps, and every Old soul starts out at step 1, pretty much like a Mature soul but with less focus on “right relationship” and more focus on self-actualisation. They develop and maximise their talents, ultimately as a form of service to others, but initially to be fully awake and alive in their own skins. In doing so, the world may well respond by lavishing them with praise, fame and fortune. If an Old soul loves acting, for example, and demonstrates a well-developed gift for it, then in life he/she may well become a highly successful actor … or not. The thing is, to a Young soul it matters a great deal whether or not the result of showing one’s talent is worldly success. That’s the main game Young souls are playing. An Old soul, however, regards worldly success with a sort of “yeah? so?” attitude. For a perfect illustration of this, I recommend (everyone) to watch the documentary movie “Searching for Sugarman”.
where are the women, please…we need female models and images
You mean apart from the ones that are already there (sigh…)?
OK, point taken yet again. This time I’m really working on it!
B
Why?!!?
* shrug *
What about ancient soul’s. Namaste.
Say more?
After reading your very inspiring article which I Thank you for sharing I came to the very end of it thinking it was good to read a very well written explanation of the very levels we go through. I have researched Michael’s works and have been fortunate to have many questions answered. I will share my resent one with you.
After searching my entire life awaiting the right time it finally entered my life. I realised I was part of everything and everything part of me. I see Nature coming alive right in front of me and I see that we all live our own life in our own special “pocket” of the tapestry. I saw what is named the Grid and understood the illusion of us believing to be afar, alone and not part of everything, more nothing. That is the very illusion. I wondered why and a simple vision showed me how it is all made up. We are like energy orbs circling ourselves and everyone else within a limited sphere always turning as we see planet Earth is doing hence the experience of distance and recognition of others around us. When we turn we come back to the very same point again and again and some split up in more orbs as they grow.
I am grateful for having had these experiences and believe many more will come as I progress into the latter part of my life and I wish you the very best on your path to fulfillment and knowledge.
Wisdom is our goal.
Kind regards
Christin
Hi Christin
I am so grateful to you for sharing such a clear and meaningful insight into deepest truth.
I also admire your capacity to have such wonderful experiences on your own, without a facilitating format or teacher. My wife and I run ‘enlightenment Intensives’ – a 3-day group process enabling participants to have a direct spiritual insight through their own introspection and communication (without a teacher or teaching). It is rare and beautiful to hear of such experiences happening spontaneously, and I wish you many more!
Warmest regards
Barry
Think that I read somewhere, long ago, that Walt Whitman is now incarnate as equally sublime writer, Alice Walker.
As it was then my Saturn return, I do believe that the central figure in this initiation dream was either a member of the Michael or the magnetic old king to whose realm we – Merlin and I are as task companions – belong…
http://dreampoetica.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/the-seminal-dream-of-this-lifetime/
hi man, i believe im a really old soul, but im only 17 years old, life to me is so simple an easy, i just want to do what i want and just get on with it… i want to become an polymath within the fields of creativity and human way of expression, do you think there might be anyway at all of achieving a higher state than the old soul? i mean, im really young and really old, as i mature I get older in both ways, right?
Hi mateo
Great, just go for it, your creative/expressive life will unfold.
But don’t go looking to achieve a higher state than an Old Soul. That’s like someone climbing Everest saying, “Is there something higher than Everest I can climb?” Once you (or any of us) graduate as a 7th level Old Soul, you’ll be done with this planet. All in good time, all in good time. You will become the fullest expression of your true self in the latter half of your life. Before then, you have to focus on being in this specific body/life.
Given that you’re 17 in Earth years, I wouldn’t expect you to be fully acting your (soul) age for another 17 years or so. Even Jesus didn’t hit his stride until he was in his 30s.
B
Enlighten that’s all I can think off.
and yes, i have read your post regarding the 20 year old, old souls… I have already started balancing my arrogance ego and ignorance, my life is very balanced (naturally) but i just believe, to me, that there will be another stage
As long as you think “you” are doing all this, you haven’t fully blossomed yet. As you mature, I think you will see the truth of awakening is different than your conceptions of it. Right now I see a lot of mind-ego activity in your perception but that is natural and I think will drop away. Then, as Barry intimated, you won’t care about “stages”. There will be only NOW. The rest will take care of itself as there is an endless inner flow.
There are indeed other stages of expansion, integration, and discovery beyond the cycles of reincarnation. But there is no great value in fixing your attention there instead of your present life while still in a body. So I would suggest you consider your motives for having this focus.
B