35 Steps

According to many spiritual teachers, all human beings are, in reality, spiritual beings on a human journey. We reincarnate as human beings in order to evolve as souls.

Our ultimate aim is to become fully conscious and capable as unique individual expressions of All That Is.

It is a long journey, but that’s okay because the soul is eternal.

Soul Evolution

The soul’s journey is really a process of evolving. This means growing in consciousness, steadily progressing through different levels or stages of consciousness.

How do we grow in consciousness? Through taking on challenging experiences in physical form. These cause us to make important, “soul-searching” choices and call upon us to discover our inner resources.

But why in physical form? Why would a perfectly happy spiritual being decide to inhabit the physical realm with all of its limitations and difficulties?

It is precisely so that we can experience the state of what feels like total separation from others and from the rest of reality. Only by going into this physically separated human form can we know ourselves as beings in our own right, and not just as … well … undifferentiated blobs of energy. Being physical throws our experiences and choices into extremely sharp relief in a way that is not possible otherwise. This is how we learn who we are and how to become all that we are.

In other words:

Choice and the ramifications of choice provide the essential lessons of life. In a very real sense, you choose to be here in order to make choices.

Messages from Michael

The 35 Steps

We are here to know ourselves and be all we can be, step by step. And according to the teachings of the entity known as Michael, there are 35 steps to the reincarnational process. The body and personality you have now are merely the vehicles you have chosen for this latest step in your journey.

But why 35 steps?

Why not 36 steps? Or 10? Or 100?

It is simply because, according to Michael, we go through five major stages of evolution through reincarnation. And, within each stage there are seven increments or levels to be completed. (Yes, it is rather like a computer game.)

5 x 7 = 35.

35 steps

Each single step requires a whole lifetime to complete. In fact, each step usually requires more than one lifetime. Typically, the entire journey of 35 steps takes well over a hundred lifetimes.

So let’s look at the journey in more detail. We’ll start with the five major stages of soul evolution through reincarnation.

The Five Stages

The Michael teachings describe a sequence of five “cycles” or stages of soul evolution. They are named after the stages of human development:

Each of these five corresponds to a specific level of development in capability and self-awareness within the individual soul.

Each stage is also characterised by a different learning focus that is more subtle than the previous ones.

Michael Newton

Incidentally, the same pattern of soul evolution has been identified by the hypnotherapist Michael Newton (right). His groundbreaking research was published in the best-selling book Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Llewellyn, 1994).

The books by Newton and his students draw upon thousands of transcripts of people who, under hypnotic regression, have re-experienced being between lives. From the higher perspective of their soul they are able to explain what happens after death and before birth. This includes information about the levels of consciousness through which reincarnating souls evolve.

What Newton and others have discovered is that souls between lives exist in light-form, and that each soul emanates a particular colour of the spectrum which indicates its current level of consciousness.

The spectrum begins at white (all colours) but then goes through red, yellow, green, blue, to deep purple and violet. From low frequency to high frequency. The least evolved souls — the “newbies” — have a pinkish hue. The oldest souls — those nearing the end of the whole reincarnational cycle — have a blueish hue.

Although the spectrum is a continuum, Dr. Newton has found that it can be divided into five distinct stages or levels of evolvement, from Level I to Level V. These can be mapped onto the five stages given in the Michael teachings, from Infant soul to Old soul.

So, for example, souls in the middle (or third) stage of reincarnation are referred to as “Young souls” in the Michael teachings and they are at what Newton would call “Level III”. They will have a yellowish or golden hue.

(As an aside, both Newton and the Michael entity also identify higher levels of soul evolution which do not involve reincarnation.)

The stages of reincarnation (or soul age) can also be likened to the stages of metamorphosis we see in nature, such as egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly. In reincarnation, though, what changes is not the physical form but the mode of consciousness, especially the form of self-awareness and — as a result — the way of relating to others.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t


Soul age and personality

Soul age will affect how a personality comes across in certain ways.

    1. Infant souls focus on immediate survival needs. They flourish in simple environments close to nature, such as remote tribes or rural, pastoral settings. In the context of modern society, however, they can come across as uncivilised simpletons or yokels, and may even be deemed to be psychopathic or have some sort of developmental disorder. Psychologically, they are naive, impulsive and “pre-conventional”, acting on impulse or habit with little or no thought for consequences. Because they lack both social understanding and self-inhibition, they are capable of committing antisocial or immoral acts without any sense of wrongdoing. As such, they do not fit well within modern society and may end up in prison or in psychiatric units. While infant souls may lack the moral principles, social graces and cultural understanding of older souls, they are in a sense completely innocent, being without pretense or agenda. [Well-known example: Fred West, serial killer]

  • Baby souls, in contrast to Infant souls, think a great deal about their actions. Their lives are about safety, security, structure and order — rigidly so. Both their beliefs and their actions are largely rule-bound, so they are often ultra-conservative, traditionalist, orthodox, upright, moralistic, religiously devout, and mindful of law and order. That said, they will occasionally give in to temptation, or temper tantrum, and break the rules themselves — but then might find themselves tortured with guilt and shame. They come across to older souls as rather “square” – conscientious, conventional, conformist. Baby soul communities tend to be highly principled and civilised (think of the Amish). They are acutely aware of the rights and wrongs of people’s actions, including their own, though they have little insight into the motives behind them. Bad behaviour is sinful, and that’s that. [Well-known example: Jimmy Swaggart]

 

  • Young souls tend to be extravert, outward-bound, worldly, frenetically energetic, brash, competitive, political, ambitious and individualistic. They are more ego-driven than personalities at any other soul age, keen to prove themselves in the world at large. They like to think for themselves, assert their own opinions, and follow their own agenda, with a certainty that their own way is by far the best way. They are generally attracted to some form of worldly success — fame, fortune, power, glory. In fact, they are more fearful of death than souls at other stages, and those who aren’t sure about life after death may be anxious to make a big impact on the world stage – to create some kind of symbolic immortality for themselves. Young souls are acutely aware of their own goals and intentions but do not really question them. [Well-known example: Napoléon Bonaparte.]

 

  • Mature souls tend to be thoughtful, reflective and sincere within themselves, and sensitive and empathetic towards others. Psychologically, their awareness is no longer egocentric (in the sense of being limited to a single perspective), but capable of accommodating multiple perspectives. In fact, the self-serving ego comes to be seen as a problem, something to be overcome — though in reality it is more a case of incorporating it into a broader level of awareness. This tension between ego and ego-transcendence, or between having both a personal agenda and a desire to be more open and authentic, makes life much more complicated — sometimes overwhelmingly so. On the one hand, mature souls reject narrow-minded values. Yet on the other hand, they can empathise with whoever holds those same values. Fixed opinions are replaced by a sense of ever-shifting perspectives — “It all depends on how you look at it”. This disappearance of solid ground kicks off a search for deeper meaning and self-understanding — whether through art, psychology, philosophy or spirituality. Politically, mature souls tend to be liberal and inclusive, and disapprove of any kind of narrow chauvinism. To younger souls, they can come across as bleeding-heart liberals. They tend to question everything, including their own motives, and are prone to do a lot of soul-searching (literally). [Well known example: Barack Obama.]

 

  • OId souls tend to exude some degree of depth, gravitas or wisdom that is quite unmistakable. Having moved beyond the conflicts of the mature soul, they are also lighter and have a sense of joyous freedom — the freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it. They are relatively calm, measured, untroubled and stable, unattached to social structures and cultural expectations, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others. Their focus is on true self-expression and fulfillment, consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is. As such, they tend to go their own unique way in life, letting go and letting be, in a detached way that may seem very weird and eccentric to younger souls. Late-stage old souls often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion. [Well-known example: Osho]

 

Note: These descriptions emphasise the differences between stages. In reality, though, there is a gradual blend from one stage to the next. A person at the start of the Mature stage, for example, will act mostly like a Young soul but with elements of Mature soul nature beginning to emerge.

The lessons of each stage

Here are the five stages of soul evolution through human reincarnation, together with the typical learning experiences associated with each stage:

soul age focus 2 450

So we begin reincarnating as Infant souls, complete novices at physical existence. At this first stage we are largely in a state of incompetence and terror, frankly. But through experiences and choices we learn and grow. We steadily progress from being Infant souls to Baby souls to Young souls to Mature souls. Finally, we enter the fifth stage as accomplished Old souls, the experts of human existence.

As infant souls we learned about choices having to do with survival, as baby souls choices having to do with moral codes and ethics, as young souls choices having to do with mastery of achievement, as mature souls choices having to do with relationships, and as old souls choices having to do with the nature of oneness with the Tao. An infant soul would therefore not understand the choices of an old soul although an older soul would likely have more understanding of the nature of younger soul choice having had them.

Michael, via Victoria Marina

To look at each stage in more detail see:

Stage 1. The Infant Soul

Stage 2. The Baby Soul

Stage 3. The Young Soul

Stage 4. The Mature Soul

Stage 5. The Old Soul

Soul levels in the human population

The six or seven billion people on the planet span the whole range of stages, but the average is said to be somewhere just past the mid-point of stage 3 (see chart below). In other words, this world is currently dominated by Young souls whose primary focus is competitive self-advancement.

The seven steps within each stage

Within each stage there are seven discrete steps to go through. In the Michael teachings, they are called “levels”, so in each stage we proceed from 1st level to 7th level. Calling these “levels” can be a bit confusing (since Newton refers to the five major stages as “levels”), so I sometimes prefer to call them “steps”.

So each stage of reincarnation has seven distinct learning steps. For example, we begin the whole journey at step 1 as Infant souls, learn that lesson, then undertake step 2 as Infant souls, and so on. On completing the 7th step of the Infant stage, we then begin the 1st step of the Baby stage.

35 steps

The early steps in any stage are about experiencing life at this new stage of evolution, learning the essential lessons through appropriate experiences.

The later steps are about expressing those lessons, demonstrating this level of consciousness in action.

For example, in the Young soul stage, the first three steps — from 1st level Young soul to 3rd level Young soul — are about discovering the meaning of free will and self-determination; the last three steps — 5th level Young soul to 7th level Young soul — are about demonstrating the meaning of free will and self-determination in action. (The middle step — 4th level Young soul — is about consolidating the lessons learned.)

The first step or level of any stage is like putting a toe in the water; the final step is like teaching others how to swim:

1st Level Initiation into the new stage. “Toe in the water.” First glimpses of the new consciousness. We come to recognise that there is a whole new way of being ahead of us, and we respond to the call, even though as yet it is beyond our comprehension.
2nd Level Building foundations. Wading in and out. Comparing and contrasting the old and new consciousness. We come to understand what is essential and different about this higher level, though it still remains ‘ahead’ of us, not quite within us.
3rd Level Rising to the challenge. Taking the plunge. We determinedly commit ourselves to actively embrace and explore the new consciousness.
4th Level Integration. Relaxing into it, “enjoying the water.” We now identify ourselves with this way of understanding self, life and others – this is our truth. We fully incorporate and consolidate the new consciousness into our own being.
5th Level Expression. Splashing about – “Look at me!” We openly share and communicate our new, true sense of self and of life’s meaning. We feel drawn to broadcast our truth, to “go public” with it.
6th Level Demonstration. Giving value and benefit to others. “Being a life guard.” Our new consciousness is put to the test. We also burn off any outstanding karma incurred in the earlier steps of this stage.
7th Level Mastery. Peak performance. We have complete understanding and control of our awareness at this level. We know exactly what we are doing. We may feel like a role model. Hmm… What’s next?

This sequence of seven steps is repeated through each stage, making 35 steps in all from the beginning of reincarnation to the end.

In case you’re wondering, I’m at the 5th level of the Mature soul stage. My current life’s lesson is about outwardly expressing my Mature soul consciousness.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t


Many lives

So, we start our evolutionary journey at level 1 of stage I (as “1st Level Infant souls”) and end it at level 7 of stage 5 (as “7th Level Old souls”).

There are 35 steps in all. And each single step requires at least one lifetime to complete.

A single step can be done in one lifetime but often that’s too big a stretch, so an initial life may undertaken as a taster, followed by one or two more which really go for it.

Sometimes a life is interrupted, and the soul will just have to start over in the next life. Also, some lives are undertaken for reasons other than the specific intent to develop. For example, one lifetime might be undertaken primarily to assist another soul in their development. And some lives are taken on primarily for the death experience, for karmic reasons. These can be very short, of the order of days, weeks or months.

Taking into account all the gaps spent in the non-physical state between lives, a single step is typically accomplished in about 100-300 years of Earth time.

The whole journey of 35 steps usually takes well over 100 lifetimes. Hence, the whole journey is likely to take of the order of 7,000-8,000 years, but possibly a lot more if the population is low and opportunities to incarnate are few.

Questions and Answers

Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why don’t we just give up and be done with it? Can’t I just decide that this is my last time?

You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the soul’s perspective). You wouldn’t rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, it’s more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. That’s what the game is all about.

Who says?

There’s no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to “graduate” and who doesn’t. It’s just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. There’s a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And we’ve all signed up for it.

But why? What’s it all about?

Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life.

How does it do that?

By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self.

And that’s why we are here?

We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realised beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.

See also:

PersonalitySpirituality.net

492 Responses to “Reincarnation: the 35 steps of soul evolution”


  1. 1 Ginger 24 Aug 2009 at 10:54 pm

    AGAIN BEAUTIFUL!! WELL DONE ! TYVM
    NAMASTE’

  2. 2 Kimberanne 24 Aug 2009 at 11:17 pm

    Fascinating. I’m just starting to read the Michael teachings and find this to be a great resource. Thank you for putting this together.

  3. 3 wondering84 28 Sep 2009 at 11:56 am

    How do we know for sure at what level we are?

    • 4 - barry - 28 Sep 2009 at 1:38 pm

      Good question, Tobar. I don’t think we can know for sure while incarnate. It’s more a matter of observing or asking and then self-validating. It’s relatively easy to get the major stage (infant-baby-young-mature-old) but the specific level within that is pretty subtle.

      I was initially told that I was an old soul, which flattered my ego but I had to be honest with myself – it didn’t fit. I have too much inner turmoil. I knew I couldn’t be infant, baby or young because I had too much self-awareness and empathy for others. I am not lost in a false persona, and I am very sensitive to how others feel and perceive. The issues I struggle with on a daily basis are classic mature soul issues – how to by myself while relating to others, knowing how others feel etc. I have old soul “peaks” every now and then, where I can be very calm, detached and wise, but my centre of gravity is very much mature soul.

      Eventually I tracked down a reliable channel, Sarah Chambers (known in the books as “Jessica Lansing”). I was told that I was a 5th-level mature soul. This came as a surprise as 5th level is sort of expressive, whereas I’d always experienced myself as a typically introverted scholar. However, I was in my 30s at the time – only just approaching the mid-life transition at which the true personality seeks expression. Sure enough, over the last 10+ years I have been through a process of discovering my “true voice”. I have intuited my life’s purpose as “Finding something worth saying about life, and saying it to those who have ears to listen.” This fits very neatly as a typical 5th level focus.

      • 5 Jason H. 04 May 2012 at 6:50 am

        Hi Barry. I feel like I’m very similar to you based upon what you typed. Thank you for offering your insight and knowledge.

        • 6 barry 04 May 2012 at 8:09 am

          Thanks, you’re welcome.

          • 7 Tran 30 May 2013 at 7:13 am

            It is fascinating that my learning process has taken me to see this article this morning. I am finding myself after several years of soul searching, starting to share what I learnt with others. Thanks a lot again.
            Tran

  4. 8 La Quishia N. 29 Apr 2010 at 9:26 am

    Hm… I don’t know myself well enough to figure it out to the specific level. But I definitely know I’m a mature one. Level 6 sounds like where I am now, but I don’t feel the previous levels have been developed given my family history.

    Hopefully this will become clearer in another 10 or so years (ugh!) or sooner. I’m still young (22).

    • 9 barry 29 Apr 2010 at 10:55 am

      Yeah, things gradually become clearer as you get past 35 or so. Before that, we are steeped in an artificial identity, which is partly what we’ve been conditioned into by society/culture/peers and partly what we’ve constructed in the process of becoming an adult. But then along comes the 4th Internal Monad – the crisis point where you strive to out-grow your artificial identity and realise your true identity, which can be quite a hideous time. But the outcome is a much clearer sense of who you are and what you are about.

      - barry

      • 10 Becky 19 Aug 2012 at 6:41 am

        “the crisis point where you strive to out-grow your artificial identity and realise your true identity, which can be quite a hideous time.” So, what you’re basically saying is, it’s like being a human teenager all over again! LOL REALLY great article!! I identify very well! I feel I’m somewhere in the mature-old range but not sure where exactly…I was actually thinking maybe Level 2 of Old, but that may be my ego, because for some reason we all want to be so darn old! ; ) But, I’d like to know for sure. I may use that contact above you mentioned if possible. Any other ideas on that? I may just be mature and resonating with old because I’m getting there, or I’m in the beginning of old and resonating with the others because I’ve been there???

        • 11 barry 19 Aug 2012 at 8:31 am

          The teenage transition involves exchanging your family-given identity (eg, “the best little boy in the world”) for a self-defined identity (eg, “the baddest guy in the world”). The mid-life transition involves exchanging your self-defined identity (“the baddest guy in the world”) for your truest sense of self and purpose (eg, “one who finds joy and fulfilment in uplifting others through music”).

        • 12 barry 19 Aug 2012 at 8:33 am

          See the bottom of this page for some Michael channels:
          http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/

  5. 13 LEARNER/TEACHER 06 May 2010 at 12:46 pm

    You know what -barry- i do agree with you, people you will know when your at the level of accomplishment you will feel it in your heart. The truth is found within your mind and spirit. If you can understand what the heart is telling you, your mind is there to help you remember right from wrong. The mind and spirit are a team once you got them workin together, you have reached greatness. Remember brothers and sisters dont let yourselves down its part of the test, dont let anything or anyone throw you off course, its part of your test also. Being open minded and not letting the things that dont make sense get to you is where your test gets difficult. Like i said stay on course and beaware of your surroundings at all time they are there for a reason and share your knowledge its healthy for your mind. Dont deprive your mind from its needs its crucial for the soul. The brain is your friend dont be afraid of it, Socializing and sharing your knowledge with all who is around you, i guarantee you they will share theres back with you even if they have a different opinion about it, debating is useless if it causes negativity. If you understand your heart you will learn how to balance yourself with using a right amount of positive energy. Remember everybody we are all here for a reason, learn from what your taught, and teach what you know. Dont overwhelm yourself, take your time thats why it takes a lifetime.

    • 14 crappy situation 17 Jun 2013 at 8:47 am

      And then there was me… misunderstood, called crazy, and lacking understanding and compassion due to disbelief across the board, even here. I chose this life, and its a fast-tracked, multiple-life experience life. I know that there was a lack of interest at some point, interest in mainly love at another, death: and respecting all it encompases, power and powerlessness, rich and poor, responsibility for another soul… the list goes on and on.. most of these have come to fruition in this life, mainly because I so strongly dislike the vibrational flop occuring, and the way others are letting it go on because “they’re dues are paid”, “time to enjoy it” mentality of the mature souls. Where’s the maturity? Balance? I’m sounding very arrogant, but this is not the case truly. I’m challenging those with knowledge to be ……. (whatever you can be that will encourage personal development in a manner condusive to the greater good – at worst “advancement” generally speaking). I’m 32 yrs old, and have wanted out as soon as I got here. It’s disappointing, because balance once understood is so easy, and I think to keep the balance, those enjoying their “mature” ages need to remember the meaning of balance and look around. There’s balance to a degree, but it’s on war like terms. I personally think it’s a reflection on those who can make a change and choose not to. (i.e.- my husband- the actual reason I’m here) Walk-ins, mid-life punishments, re-claiming one’s body, and how to more easily cross the fortress I’ve located him to be in as the topic? I’ve found myself making my own journey for self and others a lot, respectful of the lesson and obviously with permission. (I’ve exhausted my means of expressing a request for insight on this situation – and also, his walk-ins: (how to describe…???) Legion of childish, moronic, “demons” ??? So many questions, and very little people willing to express opinions or ideas on the delicate nature of the subject. My best back and forth person is very set in her beliefs and I’ve exhausted those avenues, as well as any and all of my own. I’m in a corner almost with “loving too much” as the option, but I refuse to give fancy to that! Especially with the minions I’m living with. I’m reflecting heavily on myself hoping it’s me, and I’ll be able to break the stronghold on his location. Time or lifetimes is not something I like to do, not an answer I need, I’m already aware of that outcome. Please keep it from love and constructive to my requests, I would do the same for you. Also, respect that I have to still make the choice to use it.
      (Sorry if you sensed the grouchy, I’m still human…LOL!)

      • 15 Debbie Okeefe 14 Sep 2013 at 11:31 am

        It is so wonedful to find this on .because spirtual i am very much since i was around five and it feels like when i put myself at a positive energy level i get the feelings back on being focused and and find i get so much in these feelings i call gifts . The colors seem to shock me because i swear they came to me in the water and aint sure if it was given to me or was someones maybe i dont make sence but i ask for guidance through water . And this bluish green color i felt when my eyes were closed in the water was right in front of me and the feelings were so beautiful and relaxing feeling .what does that all mean

      • 16 carae 11 Dec 2013 at 1:36 am

        Dear Debbie, I also see a fabulous sapphire blue color when I’m in water…but only in the last few years!! Mainly when I’m aligned. I’ve mentioned it to some but they don’t see colors and just look at me bewildered ?!

  6. 17 D J Wray 04 Aug 2010 at 4:34 am

    Some of the more skeptical readers will be tempted to ask questions like “How did all of this begin?”, “How will it end and what will happen to my soul?”, “How does this relate to our universe?”, “Is there a God?”, “Why is there so much suffering on earth?”, “How do I leave earth?”, “Why aren’t all highly-experienced hypnotherapists (not just a select group which includes ‘the entity known as Michael’) privy to this knowledge?”, “What about physical evolution?”, “What about science vs religion?”, “Is there a heaven?”, “How does my soul contribute to my human consciousness?”, “What exactly is human consciousness?”, “Why did I make such a bad choice when I chose this ‘vehicle’ and/or this planet?”, “How exactly does reincarnation work?”… etc, etc. I might seem like a skeptic but I prefer to think of myself as a realist… and to convince realists, a lot of information has to be produced. Specifically, the kind of information that a worthy soul should be aware of.

    • 18 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 6:08 pm

      There is a body of evidence from many vectors that answer these questions. However if you are addicted to materialist -rationalism, none will satisfy. Conversations with Gd by Neale Donald Walsch answers many of these questions. So does the works of Michael Newton (Journey and Destiny of Souls) and Robert Schwartz (Your Soul’s Plan, Your Soul’s Gift”.)

      There is a lot of info out there, you just have to research. Also, just “ask” the Universe to be guided. You may just be surprised.

      About ““Why aren’t all highly-experienced hypnotherapists (not just a select group which includes ‘the entity known as Michael’) privy to this knowledge?” Part of the answer is why aren’t all writers Shakespeare? But the true answer lies in the concept of Soul Contracts (You design the intention of your lessons and experiences in agreement with others before you were born-you have free will once you get here.)

      Therefore, for cutting edge material, certain people are ordained to be the breakthrough messengers.

      Not everyone can be a Newton (its a pun).

  7. 19 alex 11 Oct 2010 at 2:42 pm

    interesting article!

    i know that “worldy” logic is not a basis for questions on spiritual topics, but: what is the explanation for 1 infant soul turning into 20 young souls, in terms of quantity??

    • 20 barry 11 Oct 2010 at 2:45 pm

      Er, I don’t get the question. Where have you got the idea that 1 soul turns into many?

      • 21 alex 11 Oct 2010 at 6:46 pm

        maybe i used the wrong words…i meant: how can 1 soul GROW UP to be ~20 or 30 souls…it’s actually not about a precise number. just take a ‘real’ diagram of age structure (as in the link below). i am referring to the diagram in the middle of the page. how can the ‘infant’ souls (which actually have the amount=0) in the beginning, grow up to be the big amount of ‘young souls’?

        or, in other words: where do all these dominating ‘young’ souls come from, if they were’nt infant souls beforehand?

        i have to admit, i dont know too much about this topic yet. but could you point out something in your explanation that i possibly got wrong?

        age structure: http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfruf/images/bio3002/popage4.gif

        • 22 barry 11 Oct 2010 at 7:06 pm

          Ah, perhaps you haven’t got the meaning of infant, young etc in this context. An infant soul isn’t a person in infancy; it’s a soul in the earliest stage of its own evolution in consciousness – a process that takes thousands of years of reincarnation.

          Each young soul was indeed an infant soul at one point, and will eventually become an old soul.

          The “age” of a soul has nothing to do with the physical age of the person. A 40 year old person could be an infant soul while a newborn baby could be an old soul. Does this make sense?

        • 23 samsara 27 Mar 2012 at 7:28 am

          the graph is just a bell curve that illustrates, approximately, the distribution of where all souls fall in the range, at any given time. So; the ‘young souls’ you refer to may be the ‘infant souls’ lagging in development, from those; just a few at a time progress onwards, the others remain trapped in do-overs, repeating the same level(s) until they learn the lessons they failed previously. That interpretation works for me, anyway… hope it helps!

          • 24 barry 27 Mar 2012 at 8:25 am

            A hundred thousand years ago, when all those incarnating here were new souls, the peak of the curve would have been way over to the left. A few thousand years from now, assuming no fresh influx of new souls, the peak will be over to the right.

            • 25 jacinto rubiano 30 Jan 2013 at 2:56 pm

              Where did those infant souls come from? From animals? Reason why they are beastlike in character?

              • 26 barry 30 Jan 2013 at 5:56 pm

                Yes, although strictly speaking, it’s not that they (we) *come from* animals – we all come from spirit/essence/the light. It’s more like, we are evolving in consciousness by experiencing existence in increasingly complex forms with increasingly complex relationships and increasingly subtle emotions.

                From past evolution in animal form, infant souls have a level of consciousness that knows about physical existence and the basic emotions and impulses that go with it, but they are not so aware of concepts like “free will” or “fair play”. That’s the kind of stuff they (we) are here to learn. Human emotions such as shame, pity, and vengefulness, and our ability to express (or hide) these, allows consciousness to experience a whole new world – a multitude of different ways of being and relating.

                • 27 ken kaplan 30 Jan 2013 at 6:28 pm

                  I think here is where we have uncertainty. Different traditions/modalities have different answers and I don’t have one. Eastern traditions postulate as Barry has commented, new human souls come up from animal form, which is considered less developed. I have encountered a problem with this because it feels very ‘human centric” and uncomfortably dovetails with the view that humans are at the “top of the pyramid”. From recent experience, I don’t see this as necessarily true and that many animals and plants can be as evolved as we are, just different.

                  In Journey of Souls, infant souls emerge from the infinitude of source energy, which is limitless. None of Michael Newton’s subjects experienced animal remembrance, however in Eastern regression subjects, animal lives were remembered.

                  In Your Soul’s Gift, the guides were adamant that the human experience and other living forms, especially that of animals were on separate tracks, and crossover was rare. The soul intelligence of higher animals is very akin to humans. Recently I have been thinking that because we view life from the human vantage point, we assume it is superior. That may not be the case. Why is a horse’s view or an Elephant’s less important or real? My animal communicator friend says to Elephants, God looks like an Elephant.

                  As I said, I don’t know the answer to this one. Maybe down the line it will become clearer. What is clear is to respect all life. )So much for lunch meat,etc.)

                  My only point is we need to be careful about our assumptions and especially the mature of animal consciousness.

                  Obviously infant souls emerge from somewhere. It could be the raw material of source energy individualized as much as “coming up” from animal form.

                  • 28 ken kaplan 30 Jan 2013 at 6:31 pm

                    P.S. Animals may have as much capacity for awakening as humans do. A friend of mine was leading a channeled meditation and the guiding energy said the most evolved being in the room was the dog.

  8. 29 Goo bear 27 Oct 2010 at 1:26 am

    I’m 20 years old going on twenty and reading about soul ages has really helped me understands the way i live my life. I know i am young and dont have mush experience yet but reading this article i think i may be an Old Soul around stage 4. Everything this article has said about Old Souls has reflected me nearly %100. I would one day like to go to a spiritualist and see what the truth is

  9. 30 Anthony 04 Nov 2010 at 9:38 am

    So after reading all of this, and the comments, I have to ask a simple question, or what I find to be a simple question. After completing all stages from infant to Old soul,what happens? Do we reset and revert back to an infant soul, but with better and/or odds and/or chances to more quickly evolve,or do we become another type of Light or soul, mabye even on another “dimension” of being, or start to inhabit a higher level of physical and intellectual beings? So much questions, so much to learn. Thats some Artisan stimulation seeking right there.

    • 31 barry 04 Nov 2010 at 10:10 am

      Hi Anthony

      My understanding from the Michael teachings is that we keep going through another two stages beyond that of the old soul (which is the fifth stage).

      The sixth stage would be as guides on the astral, working together with our closer soul-mates.

      The seventh and final stage would be as a re-integrated collective consciousness, a ‘causal body’, comprising all souls from our larger grouping of origin, or what Michael calls ‘entity’. Michael is one example of this stage, being in fact an integrated entity consisting of 1,050 Warriors and Kings.

      By the end of that stage, we are effectively at one with the creative power of the universe (God if you like), and individuality – while it remains in some sense – is no longer a concern. But from what I can gather, we are free to choose to undergo the whole cycle again – as we did this time – for the sheer thrill of it! That would be in a whole new species, however. Or, as you say, maybe on another (less demanding) dimension.

      The idea of having “better odds to evolve more quickly” gives the impression that evolving quickly has some sort of merit, but this is not the case. The eternal universe doesn’t really care how quickly or slowly any soul gets from stage A to stage B – life is all about the process, not the end goal.

      This is where I really think the Integral / Evolutionary Enlightenment camp (Andrew Cohen etc) are barking up the wrong tree. The idea that there is some urgent need to evolve now springs entirely from human fears and misconceptions, and has no meaning from the point of view of spirit.

      - barry

      • 32 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 6:13 pm

        IN Your Soul’s Plan by Robert Schwartz, one of the guides agrees with you. From the point of the Soul, time does not matter. But if we wreak humanity here, I wonder how it would work. Would evolution and karma have to be redistributed on other planets?

        • 33 barry 19 Aug 2012 at 8:44 am

          Apparently it does occasionally happen that a population of souls will destroy their own world during the young-soul phase (eg, through nuclear war or mass polution). In that case, it’s simply time to find a new species on another planet and carry on from where you left off. But best avooded if possible!

  10. 34 Nick Nash 18 Nov 2010 at 11:24 pm

    This was excellent and definitely resonated strongly with me as coming from Michael. Great insight here that I’ll be sharing with my listeners this weekend. I’ve been focusing on a series of shows under an umbrella I called “Signs of the End Times” and this weekend, I have been “urged” to do 3 shows centering on the journey of the soul… so this is excellent info for my listeners and for me. I found this quite fascinating. Thank you for taking the time to write and post.

    Blessings, Nick

    • 35 barry 18 Nov 2010 at 11:26 pm

      Many thanks, Nick.
      - barry

  11. 36 mgrinnell 25 Dec 2010 at 8:31 am

    Can you locate the words to describe how souls can incarnate into any period or “time”. I’ve been told that our concept of time is linear, due to our minds and how they function, but for the soul it functions differently. That there is no past and future, and that all is happening simultaneously…

    Confusing, and I am wondering if someone can put it into some sort of mind-friendly wording.

    thanks
    Matt

    • 37 barry 28 Dec 2010 at 9:45 am

      If I understand correctly, you are asking about the possibility of incarnating “out of sequence” into any time period, say from 20th century Europe in one life to 1st century China in the next. I have seen this alluded to a couple of time, but I suspect — I cannot claim to know for sure — that this is a misinterpretation of something else. Either that, or I just cannot get my head around the idea of infinite parallel universes. The very idea of non-linear incarnation is so counter-intuitive it makes my (linear) brain hurt, so maybe I’m biased, but here is my take on things.

      As far as I understand it, while souls (between lives) do not experience time as we do in physical life — they just exist in the eternal “now” — they do nevertheless experience a flow from “before” to “after” – from where their consciousness has been to where their consciousness is going. In other words, they experience the path of their own evolution.

      In addition, souls can also perceive and scrutinise the entire “tapestry” of history on the physical plane. (I have read about souls going to special “temples” or “libraries” to do so.) The tapestry is a visual metaphor. It consists of interweaving “threads” which represent our individual paths of evolution through incarnation, showing both our collective past and our collective (but potential) future.

      The past is that which has actually been experienced, both individually and collectively. The tapestry of the past has been woven already, determined by the choices we made while incarnate. This part of the tapestry is crystallised, set in stone.

      The future is that which may yet be experienced; it is fluid, expanding. The threads have many offshoots going in different directions. Different weaves are possible. The future is all the many diverging paths we can choose from here on given what we have already chosen.

      Souls can see the fixed path of the past plus all the side-paths, what could have been had different choices been made. They can also “tune in” and experience any part of the past – one’s own path, another’s path, or even a “lost” path that wasn’t chosen – without actually being incarnate, just as we can play a video game and experience flying an aeroplane without actually flying an aeroplane. For example, you could tune in to a certain life in 1st century China and “relive” any part of it, or experience what it would have been like if different choices had been made – not to have committed that murder or whatever. But this is not the same as actually incarnating, which is a whole different project.

      The tapestry of the future is not the same as the past – visually, it looks more like fractals fanning out infinitely as the threads separate into alternative paths which have yet to be chosen. Possibilities leading to possibilities leading to possibilities… Again, the soul could “inhabit” any path to experience it first hand, but again this is like flying a simulator as opposed to flying an actual aeroplane.

      Incarnation itself is bound by the limitations of the physical plane — and by the fact that every choice is interwoven with every other choice in the universe. We cannot die in the 20th century and then reincarnate in the 1st century because it could mess up every choice made by every other being between those time periods. Imagine the chaos – what if I die today but decide I want to reincarnate 100 years ago so that when I’m in my twenties I can go and kill young Adolf Hitler? Now imagine all of us being free to affect history in that way, even in very small ways. I think we would spend our whole time going back to rerun past events in different ways!

      Of course it’s possible that this is exactly what happens – if there are infinite parallel universes.

      Ow, that hurts!

      - barry

      • 38 mgrin 12 Jan 2011 at 3:45 am

        Barry-

        thanks, that was actually helpful. I feel that a part of working with our own minds is accepting a perspective that works for us at the moment, even if there is a subtle suspicion there is more to the story. For me, the pure logic of the world as is, the physical one we inhabit here, is akin to the impossibility of a seed falling from a tree and recreating the orchard from which sprang the tree he fell from.

        The earth is doing its lower frequency thing, and before and after in reference to personal evolution makes a lot more sense than, well, time. Anyway.

        Imagining, inhabiting in the sense of a thought form or dream, sensing with complete clarity another ‘before’ or previous time period, is, in my current thinking, akin to me personally revisiting a memory in my own life from a new perspective, fed by experience and growth.

        I can accept the notion that it is not possible to reincarnate in the past, and allow this to be my perspective at the moment. Subject to change and re-examination, after experience. It simply does not hurt my head so much.

        ow is right. soon.

        Matt

      • 39 Becky 19 Aug 2012 at 6:55 am

        I think your soul can live in “pieces” and in parallel universes and join with itself again “later”, ie; soul mates, etc. I also think there can probably be “time” travel at a level we cannot comprehend, similar to what a human mind may experience as multiple personalities perhaps. And lastly, when we are in meditation or asleep, in a coma, or anything similar, maybe we are in a parallel universe?

        • 40 Becky 19 Aug 2012 at 6:58 am

          Or maybe it’s better described as a “memory”?? It is definitely hard to grasp on this human level! But, I feel what our eyes do not see and our mind does not comprehend is the workings of life next to and a part of us at all times….not just in the sense of ghosts or spirits, but in a fully working order which is possibly just as unconscious of us as we are them, or maybe not…and maybe they can manifest to our viewing as they please (aliens??). Just thoughts.

      • 41 jayemai 08 Jan 2014 at 8:38 pm

        Thank you for covering this topic. I was in a sort of conflict because I often ‘visit’ a group of ‘people’ existing around 50,000-100,000 bc. I can’t explain it very well, but I do know that I am not incarnating into their time, and that our interactions with each other do not have any ‘real’ consequences. For me, it is almost like remembering, only slightly more vivid. I don’t care to explain it to myself, really I just enjoy these ‘meetings’.

        • 42 barry 15 Jan 2014 at 10:12 pm

          Fascinating! Thanks Jayemai
          B

  12. 43 Koen 27 Jan 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Hello Barry,
    This is very interesting information here on your site..

    But there are still so many questions I deal with and I still have a lot to learn.
    During my spiritual development I’ve met some special people. A guru once said me that I’m a very old soul and that this is my last life as an old soul. I’ve studied this subject and have a lot of knowledge about it now. My big question is; what’s next?

    I’ve heard about transcedent souls but I can’t find much about this subject. What do you know about transcedent souls?

    Koen

    • 44 barry 27 Jan 2011 at 8:26 pm

      Hi Koen

      Thanks for getting in touch.

      Have you read my article on the Old Soul? It gives a bit of information about what happens during and after the last life there.

      After our last incarnation we move into the sixth stage of our evolvement, located (I believe) in the upper Astral plane. The sixth stage, as I currently understand it, is mostly about the emotional side of our being – emotional challenges, growth and integration, the expansion of love both within and between souls. We get together with our intimate soul groups, share experiences, merge in consciousness, blend with love.

      There is also much opportunity to teach and guide those still incarnating. Most of the individual “spirit guides” or “ascended masters” who are channelled by mediums are souls at this stage, lovingly expressing wisdom.

      (There are also higher sources, such as Michael and Seth, which are integrated large group formations going through the seventh stage on the Casual plane. These have a different approach to teaching – very dry and intellectual broadcasts, compared to the more intimate and “mushy” approach of the Astral souls!)

      During the sixth stage, there is no need or desire to be physical again, unless we choose to for some special purpose – i.e. to help others who may be getting a bit stuck to move along. Moses, Confucius, Mohammed, Gandhi are said to be examples. Their mission in each case was to inspire unruly groups of mostly baby souls to find a way to live together peacefully – by providing laws, establishing virtuous principles to live by, and setting a good example.

      barry

    • 45 mg 13 Apr 2011 at 12:55 pm

      I had a ‘psychic’ tell me the same thing in the mid-90s, that I was on my last lifetime. Messed me up for many years. It’s strange to read that someone told you the same thing. Perhaps it is a man or woman too consumed by the idea of being a guru, and confusing their idea of who they are with who the person is they are talking to. Perhaps it is a thing to say. Perhaps it is true for you. I suspect you’d be completely clear if this were the case, that this is the case. I never was clear, but felt a lot of fear that it meant I had to do or be something. Had the affect of putting a tremendous amount of pressure on my – by me. How much better to believe we are just like everyone else. Sometimes.

      • 46 barry 13 Apr 2011 at 2:12 pm

        Yes, it strikes me that an easy way for a teacher/guru to attract followers is to flatter people’s ‘spiritual egos’. Most seekers would love to consider themselves more advanced or enlightened than the common herd. I know I did, for a while. My first reading from a (dubious) Michael channel described me as an Old Priest – at first I was flattered, but I knew it didn’t really chime. My next reading, from a very reliable channel, got me as a Mature Scholar, and I have no doubts whatsoever about that. It’s really important to try and self-validate anything we’re told by outsiders, especially something so profound as the evolutionary state of your soul.

  13. 47 gargi 09 Apr 2011 at 6:26 am

    One astrologer told me that i am an old soul.
    I was not familiar with this stages.
    After going through your article i could know about it.
    It will be very helpful if you clear my doubts that does this one step/level out of seven steps of each stage takes one life each, i.e., 7 lives for 7 steps and to achieve the ultimate stage we have to pass through 35 lives?
    And after completeing this 35 steps,i.e.,five stages one will achieve Moksha?
    Would the person have not need to take birth further?

    • 48 barry 09 Apr 2011 at 7:02 am

      Hi gargi

      It takes at least one lifetime to complete a single step – usually 3 or 4 or more. So the overall process of 35 steps takes over 100 lives, typically.

      On completion of the fifth stage, as a 7th-level Old soul, you have indeed reached the end of rebirth. But that does not mean that you have achieved “freedom” or “liberation” from the wheel, exactly, because you were always free and you have re-experienced that freedom between all of your lives. Rather, it is simply that physical separation no longer has anything to give you in terms of evolving, just as there is no reason to go back to school once you’ve graduated.

      See my page on the Old soul stage for further information.

      I hope this helps!

      barry

  14. 49 Amit 09 Apr 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Wow must say that this post is very insightful and in fact has a very practical approach! I have a few questions that have been bothering my mind for quite sometime now. I will start of with a few:

    As you mentioned somewhere in there that ….the super consciousness fragments into zillions of conscious entities, each of which have its own experiences and perspective, and each of which can make its own choices about what to experience.

    1) Are these fragments only of infant soul form or is there something else.

    2) Do infant souls kick start with a human body by default or can an infant soul start of with a non human body may be of an animal or plant or a virus maybe? In fact there are people who believe that the soul starts its journey from the simplest of life forms and then gradually moves up the evolution ladder where it finds a human body at top and keeps evolving thus forward.

    3) to the best I can analyze even animals do seem to have a soul and consciousness but prolly their consciousness is underdeveloped as compared to humans and they behave mostly on instincts. Humans on the other hand behave as per instincts as well as their conscious judgment that eventually develops their karmic cycle and reincarnation options.

    But common sense would say that in animal kingdom its luckier to be born as a lion in the jungle, or as an eagle in the skies, or a shark in the ocean for that matter. Even within animal species there is variance, like a dog is born on the street and another in a rich mans house. So if animals are driven by instincts how can they have a karmic cycle, and if they don’t have one then why a more fitting animal body for some?

    • 50 barry 10 Apr 2011 at 7:09 am

      Hi Amit

      To address your questions:

      1) All souls begin at the beginning, as 1st-level Infant souls, just as all newly-born creatures begin as infants. If a soul group elects to embark on the journey of evolving through reincarnation, all souls within that group will start incarnating as 1st-level Infant souls.

      2) Consciousness as a whole does evolve through the pre-human levels (matter > plant > animal), but at those levels there are not ‘souls’ as such, i.e. not individualised spirits with self-awareness able to make choices. Rather, there are masses of low-level consciousness.

      Evolving souls like you and me need bodies of a certain type (independently mobile) and with a complex brain able to support rational choices. It would not serve a soul, even an Infant soul, to incarnate into a blade of grass or in the body of a snake, because the vehicle is far too limited for what the soul is trying to achieve (evolving through choices).

      On this planet, there are two options for individualised souls to evolve through reincarnation: humans and cetaceans (i.e. whales and dolphins, of which there are many species).

      3) Yes. Each species of non-ensouled animal is said to have a collective consciousness known as a “hive soul”. Such consciousness has yet to evolve into the individualised soul form which we have.

      Karma does not apply to animal spirits because they are incapable of making rational choices – karma is a factor for individualised souls only.

      Referring to one kind of physical life or body as “lucky” compared to another is meaningless from a spiritual perspective. A human mind imagines that being the predator at the top of the food chain is better than being its lowly prey, or that living in a luxury house is better than living on the streets, but that’s just how human minds think. Animals don’t think like that of course, and spirit or consciousness sees as much goodness and value and love in being a vulnerable gazelle as in being a hungry lion. It isn’t “better” to be predator rather than prey, or to be sheltered rather than unsheltered. Comfort in an animal’s life is not a karmic reward, and lack of it is not a karmic punishment. It’s all just part of the mix that consciousness longs to experience.

      I hope this answers your questions, but feel free to ask more!

      - barry

      • 51 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 6:29 pm

        I am undecided about the chain of life but there is material and experiences that do disagree with the issue that animals do not have their own soul evolution. In Your Soul’s Gift by Robert Schwartz, there is a chapter on pets and the guides make it clear that higher animals (at least) have very clear soul evolution. I personally have connected with pets from the other side and was clear about the contract between me and my cat. The book claims animals do not like particularly to cross over to human form, too intense and too much extremes of duality. Yet in hypnotherapy in the East, remembrance of animal lives is common.

        I think once you reach the human cycle, however it occurs, its your cycle. Some disagree with that.

        For lower species I do agree with the “group soul” idea.

  15. 52 mg 13 Apr 2011 at 1:27 pm

    The basic idea of karma in this last comment is interesting, though I would suggest – or what struck me as odd – was the last paragraph where you wrote “…or because the perpetrator just decided to do it, creating fresh karma for himself”.

    It just doesn’t sit with me this idea that something can happen out of the blue for a soul. The idea of a class being the equivalent of a life time, and that each soul signs up for a class, seems an important perspective to use in this context. The soul might embody a position of ‘victim’ or ‘abused’ or ‘murdered’, and therefore has an opening for this energy, or a weak spot so to speak. This makes more sense to me. A soul is embroiled in a physical experience where what it does not know is what it is learning, including being attacked or murdered even (the body, not the soul), in order to become experienced in this.

    I usually believe that all that happens in physical life, and that appears random, is actually only perceived this way on the personality level (the body). On the soul level, if there is a murderer and a murdered, it was agreed upon previously on the soul level that this would take place. Perhaps to put more spontaneity into life, by tweaking this perspective a bit – the soul enters a life to experience violence to the physical body. The soul is open to this experience. Another soul enters to experience being the perpetrator of violence. There is therefore a charge between the two, a balancing that occurs perhaps randomly, but is also a perfect marriage of the two class lessons.

    There are a series of lectures at this site:
    http://www.pathwork.org/lecturesObtainingUnedited.html

    #18, #21 deal with Free Will and the dark and light spiritual existence. The constant reference in these channeled lectures to the names used in one religion for forces in the world has always been off-putting for me, though it does nothing to diminish the material.

    #21, while dealing with ‘Lucifer’ and ‘God’, in those terms, to me is not about this at all. There is a basic point made that if a sort of divine “Free Will” exists, it would need to allow the free choice to live without any divine connection, without hope or love, etc. If whatever divinity there is in the world imposed itself over what is considered negative or evil – then (the article points out) it would not in fact be Free Will at all. It would be the allowance of Free Will to those considered good, and the denial of free will to those considered bad (by whom?). It’s an interesting perspective.

    I’m writing about it here because of the clarity and simplicity (in a profound way) of Michael’s teachings. The universality of these teachings. However, nothing is off limits to consider, I suppose.

    • 53 barry 13 Apr 2011 at 1:59 pm

      Thanks mg. I’m a big ‘fan’ of the Pathwork teachings (as well as Michael teachings). The Michael teachings do say quite often that the physical plane is the only one in which ‘accidents’ are possible – i.e., unplanned events. I don’t disagree that souls will arrange amongst themselves to do the murderer-victim experience, but I think the field is also open for spontaneous acts of free will, including those which harm others. It’s possible the would-be’victim’ soul sees an unplanned act coming (e.g., in the dream state), and decides whether or not to go with it. But that’s just my impression – I can’t claim to know either way.

      The Conversations With God books are also quite good on the relationship between human free will and Divine Love (i.e. – why would a loving God let us come to harm? Because we specifically choose to live in a state in which apparent harm is possible – and all choices are automatically respected.)

      • 54 mgrinn 14 Apr 2011 at 12:30 am

        Barry-

        my only thought reading the 2nd to last paragraph is that the karmic situations forced upon the soul (rather than chosen) – like we fall into a darkness because we do not yet bounce back from it, due to our not knowing it completely yet… We are consumed by the karmic experience of the lifetime, and for me (this is the notion I had) the aspect of ‘free will’ is nothing more than the actual LEARNING how to navigate the unlearned things. The free will comes into play by the ability to choose the path that frees the mess. The mess however is not a choice, or a game, it must be something so completely unknown and unexperienced, that the only way to move Free from it is to discover the way out of it. This quite possibly is nothing more Than the lifetime of each of us. The entrance and release from the karma. When there are no more dark places to fall into, we enter them from another level – just to see. Perhaps. It is what I thought of while reading.

      • 55 ken kaplan 25 Feb 2013 at 4:45 pm

        About “accidents”. I think the language is not clear. My understanding is everything is cause and effect, there is no random. Using a quantum physics metaphor, the incoming souls, or souls, are a wave of probabilities under the uncertainty principle. whether, however the probabilities get worked out is fluid and interacts with free will. Usually the strongest probabilities are the hardest to move and don’t. This is termed karmic destiny.

        But souls do veer off from contracts. In Life Between Life by Joel Whitton, a woman contracted to have a magnificent life as a concert musician. She got involved with a fast crowd with drugs and alcohol and went off a cliff in a car at age 34. Totally blew the contract. The woman who came to him for help I think in the 70′s or 80′s was an emergency incarnation assembled by her guides start to to get her back on track.

        Similarly, in Robert Schwartz’s second book, Your Soul’s’ Gift, a woman contracted for incest with the father but also contracted with the mother for support. Once here, the mother abdicated the promise of support and abandoned the daughter emotionally around the issue. There was a plan B in operation inherently

        I suppose we could call these “accidents”, but I think rather they are soul free will choices. Cause and effect is still at play, but apparently there is more room to move. Thus I do agree that there is room here for “spontaneity”, but it is not random, which accident implies, it comes still from causation of choice. I think this removes the sense of Calvinistic rigid destiny from the process.

        Souls from what I have seen have a great deal of fluidity as they work with” intentions” ( a less “fixed” word than contract). There are choice points built in all along the way. And many back off the core of what they came here to achieve and have to do it again later.

        I think it is rather rare that someone could be caught in a situation they had not contracted for and lose their life that had no bearing on how their energy put them in that position. But I suppose it is possible. I am not at the point where I fully understand fully the free will-Soul intention piece.

        There is still much we have to learn about this “technology”. It seems we are only at the beginning.

  16. 56 mgrinn 14 Apr 2011 at 12:15 am

    http://www.pathwork.org/lecturesObtainingUnedited.html

    In this series of lectures there is one lecture that discusses why all humans must be born into their worst karmic darkness. It is essential for any soul incarnating to lose ALL connection with previous life spiritual work and all connection with higher self awareness. This is so that the greatest aspects of the karmic issues must be confronted and overcome.

    It also might suggest a key concept – that when a karmic issue, or basic life experience – is actually LEARNED by the soul, it does not need to be re-learned. It is learned. The same might go for a human in this lifetime who has learned in a previous life (on a soul level) how to deal with lower energy manifesting in a violent manner (rape or murder, as you discussed). If it has been learned, the individual most-likely will not re-experience this because the lesson has already been learned. Another level of clarity might be reached by the soul via that particular life, though it will not necessarily require the physical aspect of trauma and violation.

    Barry- I really appreciate what you are doing here, and the conversations that are appearing. I have no intention of over-stepping any bounds here… just are things I think about, and have thought about quite a bit – and I somehow found this string of a conversation. I am not operating from any unclear sense of anything – just adding what I have found as related to these topics.

    • 57 barry 15 Apr 2011 at 8:00 am

      I think someone else commenting here has also pointed out that a clear act of forgiveness, from ‘victim” to ‘perpetrator’, can untie the karmic knot between them – lesson learned consciously rather than “the hard way”.

  17. 58 Graham McNallie 28 Nov 2011 at 3:35 am

    I love that I found this on the web, Journey of Souls was a wonderful learning tool for me at the beginning of my journey… Though Ive got to say I believe the author may have a slight bias, and I think the article would have been better off had they not attempted to categorize famous people. I can definately understand their method, but my issue with it is that with a famous person, we could still be very much in the dark concerning what lies in their heart and what truely motivates them. Some of the most profound effects on others are often known only to the person who gives and the one receiving. But all in all, great to find this on the net

    • 59 barry 28 Nov 2011 at 6:45 am

      I’m curious – what sort of bias are you referring to?
      B

    • 60 Meera 25 Feb 2013 at 8:51 am

      I agree Graham. Some of the people on that list did not fit at all. Joseph Lieberman???? Is that the Senator from Connecticut? Lot of movie stars and artists too…some of them with big egos and pursuit of stardom. It did not make sense at all. I did find that strange. Glad you brought it up. What about scientists and social researchers…many of them are more evolved than the movie industry.

      Be well…I am naïve about many things.

      Innocence and naivete makes us trusting open loving souls I guess…That is a good thing…but not always when in the wrong community.

      • 61 barry 25 Feb 2013 at 9:07 am

        I guess the reason why there are so many celebrities from the arts and entertainment is that they are asked about the most by people wanting to know. Bear in mind that I didn’t make this list up but compiled it from various readings given by different Michael channels. And, not being am American, even I don’t even know who some of those are! (I had to google Joseph Lieberman.)

        • 62 ken kaplan 25 Feb 2013 at 4:53 pm

          In general I find the list informative and fun but I agree we can have opinions as to who makes what. Lieberman, for example, is a mixed bag. He has had a lot of empathy for others in the realm of social politics (liberal) but a huge amount of “me first” from around 2007 on. Possibly could be a young mature soul. I’m not fond of the guy so “mature soul” would not come initially to mind.

          But the general tenor of the list makes a lot of sense. I think Reagan had a lot of baby soul in him but could have been more foundationally young. Clinton is young sou lall the way.

  18. 63 Aaron 04 Dec 2011 at 10:26 am

    I’ve come into these Michael teachings recently and…OMG it has seriously BLOWN MY MIND!! My entire perception and engagement of the world has changed.

    Upon trying to determine my soul age I have become aware that I seem to hover in the middle of mature while exhibiting traits from stage 2 all the way to 6. Do you know if it is possible for humans to concurrently live out different stages? And, if so, would that put our true soul age as the “average” between the extremes?
    BTW, I’m only 31 so I probably haven’t come fully into my age yet…

    Thank you sooo much for putting this very valuable information on the web. It’s going to help many people from losing their sanity!

    Thanks :D

    • 64 barry 04 Dec 2011 at 11:33 pm

      Hi Aaron

      I’m glad you are finding stuff of value here.

      Yes, you can appear to manifest different soul ages. I say appear because your soul (i.e. you in essence) is definitely at a particular step in its evolving consciousness. But in each human life we take on a body with consciousness at square one. As we go through the normal stages of human life, we gradually reawaken to ourselves in and through this new body, and in doing so more of our true consciousness is able to manifest. So early in life you act like an infant soul, as a kid more like a baby soul, and so on. And, as an adult, these early ways of being are still there inside you, like the rings inside a tree. If you get very drunk, for example, you could regress to an earlier level – not in your soul level per se, but in how you are manifesting through your behaviour.

      At the same time, higher levels of consciousness are also accessible. That is, we can experience moments of transcendent or even infinite joy, wisdom, love, truth, bliss, energy, unity, divinity, and so on in what are called peak experiences and spiritual awakenings. It’s just that we cannot stabilise in those higher states until we have done the work of evolving to that level, changing ourselves step by step.

      So, we can manifest beneath our level and we can experience above our level. But otherwise we will operate at our own level – it’s like our centre of gravity.

      • 65 Aaron 12 Dec 2011 at 5:05 am

        Barry, thanks for taking time to answer my question :D

  19. 66 Stuart Niebank 11 Dec 2011 at 6:13 pm

    I was just wondering what is after 7th level old soul?

    • 67 barry 11 Dec 2011 at 7:34 pm

      Hi Stuart

      My understanding is that we keep going through another two stages beyond that of the old soul (which is the fifth stage).

      The sixth stage would be as guides on the astral, working together with our closer soul-mates. The focus here is emotional and inspirational. Many channelled teachings are from souls undergoing this stage – they all have a warm and comforting quality. (e.g., Emmanuel)

      The seventh and final stage would be as a re-integrated collective consciousness, a ‘causal body’, comprising all souls from our larger grouping of origin, or what Michael calls an ‘entity’. Michael is one example of this stage, being in fact an integrated entity consisting of 1,050 Warrior and King souls. Channelled teachings from beings at this level tend to have a dry, factual quality. (e.g., Seth)

      By the end of that stage, we are effectively at one with the creative power of the universe (God if you like), and individuality – while it remains in some sense – is no longer a concern. But from what I can gather, we are free to choose to undergo the whole cycle again – as we did this time – for the sheer thrill of it! That would be in a whole new physical species..

  20. 68 Juan 06 Jan 2012 at 3:18 am

    Hi, has anyone heard about Reincarnation mathematics? Is reincarnation supported by mathematics? It would be really interesting to analyse this issue.

    • 69 barry 06 Jan 2012 at 10:31 pm

      Is it something you’ve heard of, Juan?

  21. 70 Juan 08 Jan 2012 at 3:04 am

    No, I have heard a few people saying reencarnation is mathematically imposible because souls would rarely have the chance to enter a human body. It does not seem impossible to me, but it would actually be good to test it.

    • 71 barry 08 Jan 2012 at 12:42 pm

      Ah, I have been researching about this to post something on it here in the blog soon. In a nutshell: back in the1970s someone created an urban myth, which was that by 2000 there would be more people alive (6 billion world population) than had ever lived and died in the whole history of humanity. This idea has really stuck and is often used as a “scientific fact” to discredit reincarnation. But actually it is nonsense. Population research shows that the number of people to have lived before is at least a hundred billion, probably far more if you include those who died in early childhood.

      • 72 Juan 24 Feb 2012 at 11:56 am

        Lets say there have been 150 billion people. Lets say, every one has lived an average of … 40 lifes? That would mean that there have been 3.750.000.000 souls on the planet (150 billion/40). If so, all souls that have ever existed are now living, and half of them are baby almost psycopathic souls (we are currently close to 7 billion, an populations is expected to reach a peak in 2050 at nine billion). That does not make sense, does it? it has been disturbing me for a while, for I really believe in reencarnation. But if this estimate is right (I hope it isn’t, it can’t be true that a whole journey lasts more than a hundred lifes. Do you have any thoughts on this Barry?

        • 73 barry 23 Mar 2012 at 11:29 pm

          I have now written up my thoughts about this here:

          http://personalityspirituality.net/2012/02/29/reincarnation-and-world-population-do-the-numbers-add-up/

          • 74 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 6:45 pm

            Michael Newton said from his research 75% of souls on Earth were “Young Souls”. To me this would incorporate infant and baby Souls as he said only about 15% were intermediate and 5% or less advanced.

            Thus the curve is heavily weighted toward the beginning. But the power of the more advanced souls and intermediates was not in numbers but in energy. Thus you didn’t need as many of the more advanced tom offset the energy of the younger.

  22. 75 Joshua Estrada 21 Feb 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Barry, I have come to great understandings recently about the “soul” and have encountered many great people along my 23 year long journey so far.

    I feel I have come to an understanding of finding true love, or this consistant urge of finding a “soul-mate”. I know that my understanding of this knowledge is still very fresh but I feel very strong connections with everyone and everything, even psychic like. My goal in life is to share my message with earth of love and truth. I strive to be an “MC” aka a hip-hop rapper. I have already been pursuing this passion as well as dance. I feel as if im being called to the forefront of what I’ve come to know, as well as what I will learn, to share the message of unification. To become one with People, Society, and Nature.

    I have knowledge of Birth Cards and Planetary Ruling Cards. I am a King of Clubs (BC) and a 6 of Spades (PRC)

    I guess what im trying to ask is… I feel that im a “Mature-Soul” ready to share the message of truth and love (splash about if you will) to the world, through music and dance.

    Would you agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

    Thank you for your time, it will not go unforgotten.

    -Joshua :)

    • 76 barry 21 Feb 2012 at 12:38 pm

      Hi Joshua.

      I’m not sure what you’re asking if I agree or disagree with, but I can say that you simply cannot go wrong if you follow your passion. If your best, truest sense of meaning and purpose – whatever turns your heart on – is right now pointing you in a particular direction, then go with it. An inevitable result will be that others benefit from your actions as well as you.

      I would only add that our passion in life can evolve or shift as we age and develop, so just be open to the possibility of your heart’s direction slowly altering over the years.

      Good luck!!

      • 77 Joshua Estrada 21 Feb 2012 at 1:28 pm

        Understood!

        Thank you again!

  23. 78 aly 22 Feb 2012 at 5:37 am

    I really enjoyed reading your post & find it incredibly interesting. i’m not sure if you’re familiar with the card system Josh mentioned, but it seems to resonate with your (as well as “journey of the soul”) interpretation.

    http://aspaceoflove.com/PRC.html
    http://thecardsoflife.com/your-birthday/
    http://russellrowe.com/the_playing_card_system.htm

    Please tell me what you think:) can’t wait to hear from you. Also if you tell me ur birthday I may be able to send u a more detailed description of you cards.

    Alyssa

  24. 79 Rose 27 Feb 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Hi,

    I’m a big fan of this website and thanks so much Barry for a great job..I have few questions that arise due to contradictions between different sources for reading material..

    1-In the “Conversation with God” book series “God” says Karma does not exist. Although I find that hard to swallow, but I’m curious what would your take be on this (I know u believe in Karma because it’s all over your website :) )

    2-in the “near-death.com” website, many of the psychic mediums believe that “Evil” souls will settle in a low vibration plane, grey and cold and filled with souls of similar low vibration; They live there with the same attitude they carried from Earth until they’ve had enough and then they can get counsels to help them move up their vibration either through re-incarnation or other forms of soul evolution. According to your website and the “Conversation with God” books, we all move up our vibration through experiencing the negativity on Earth. And if someone had a mission of being “Evil” it would have been a choice done with agreement with other souls prior to incarnating; either to help out other souls or to experience the “Evil”. Once the soul leaves Earth, it will pick another mission to experience. My question I guess is that i find the website: “near-death.com” a bit contradicting and slightly skewed towards religious beliefs, but that’s only my view. What u have on your website does settle with me more.. I just wondered if you’ve ever seen that website before and what do u think of it..

    Your response is appreciated..

    Rose

    • 80 barry 28 Feb 2012 at 12:26 pm

      Hi Rose

      Great to hear from you. My thoughts…….

      1. The CWG books say surprisingly little about karma. Book 1 says “there is no such thing as karmic debt – not in the sense that you mean… You are not obligated to do anything.” and book 3 says “there is nothing [in the Cosmic Wheel] of unworthiness, debt-repayment, punishment or purification.”

      My take on what CWG says is that there is nothing outside us forcing us to have experiences without our choice. The traditional interpretation of karma is a baby or young soul idea that you get what’s coming to you because you have been bad. A more appropriate interpretation, I think, would be that as part of our evolution, we deliberately choose to undergo certain dramatic and intense experiences in partnership with other souls, such as murderer and victim, first experiencing one side of the experience and then the other.

      Also, if we do happen to inflict harm on another during life (out of ignorance), we will want to experience what that was like and can arrange to do so with the same soul. This would be a karmic “compulsion”, but it’s internal, not externally imposed – a loving impulse rather than a dreadful imposition.

      So I agree with CWG that nothing is imposed, but I still see meaning in the word karma – not as the imposition of cosmic punishment but the interplay of voluntary dramatic experiences. Karma = evolutionary drama.

      2. Yes, i am familiar with near-death.com. I wasn’t aware of a specific religious angle, but i havent studied it that closely. But there are so many articles by different authors there, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some contradictions – Buddhists vs Christians, for example.

      Similarly with karma, I think evil is real enough to the human personality experiencing it, but just part of the game from the soul’s perspective between lives. So as human beings we experience others committing abhorrent and unnatural acts, and making sense of those as “evil” (or as our “karma”) is a valid choice to make. It’s those choices that are the very reason why we are here experiencing all this stuff.

      Evil is a concept popular with baby and young souls, to whom it makes perfect sense. And to the extent that it makes sense, then it isn’t “wrong” – we are all at diffent stages of making sense of existence, and none of us has the totality of truth (not consciously, anyway). A baby soul is “right” to identify something or someone as evil if doing so contributes to their own evolution. But of course, one person’s evil can be another person’s nature (homosexuality, for example). I would imagine that only mature and old souls are able to appreciate the relativity of such concepts.

      As for psychic mediums, they can be at any stage of soul evolution, and those who are baby or young will ordinarily frame life in terms of good and evil – and the afterlife in terms of heaven and hell.

      Well, that was a ramble… Food for thought though.

      Cheers :-)

      • 81 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 6:54 pm

        My understanding is that soul’s can get stuck and not cross over. Rosemary Altea had a good discussion of this in her book Eagle and the Rose. I think Soul’s can do evil by agreement and others because they have not outgrown the attachment or proclivity for harm and the thrill of it.

        Generally, my understanding is nearly all go to the other side and that as you say, “good” and “bad”are relative. Usually karma balances out tendencies toward harm. So I don’t agree with this “grey area” as what is is beyond duality.

        AS John Davies put it, the difference between a serial killer and Christ is the former is at the beginning of the journey and Jesus graduated.

  25. 82 Rose 27 Feb 2012 at 9:20 pm

    Thanks for your reply Barry! One more question please:

    Not sure if you’re familiar with David Wilcock the incarnate of Edgar Cayce and the Law of One. According to him (and many others) by the end of this year some of us will ascend to 4th density which is a higher vibration than what we are living in now. those who will ascend are the ones who hold a high vibration and will be able to match the new 4D state and those who hold a lower vibe won’t be able to match the new 4D state and will experience the physical death.

    My question is how does that tie in with the 35 steps of evolution? I think I am a mature soul and therefore I believe I still have a long way before I am ready to live in higher realms (4D) and so are a lot of people. Yet, this 2012 event sounds like heaven on Earth if one can match the right vibe. And, according to David, all one has to do is be at least 51% positive during the day and they will make it.. Everyone will end up at different levels of 4D (depending on how high their vibes are), but if they can be just a little over 50% chances are they will ascend.. What do u think about that?

    (Where I live I have limited access to share these thoughts with anyone, I’m really grateful that I found your website!! God Bless)

    • 83 barry 27 Feb 2012 at 11:56 pm

      I may live to eat my words, but I do not get what 2012 is all about. I cannot imagine that anything will be dramatically and mysteriously different by the end of this year. How could it? Well, I can imagine a lot of people *saying* that they have moved up to some higher frequency… but I doubt that there will be any noticeable difference.

      In terms of soul evolution, no-one is going to jump from young soul to old soul in the space of a year. It cannot happen, anymore than an acorn can become an oak tree overnight. We cannot become highly evolved beings just by standing in the right place at the right time, thinking positive thoughts.

      As far as I can see, all that can happen that might make a noticeable difference is if a lot of people start operating in the positive poles of their soul and personality traits – being more conscious and loving. But that has to be their own choice. For example, someone with a goal of dominance who has normally been acting in the negative pole (dictatorship) could be inspired by a wave of love to choose to act more in the positive pole (leadership). Or they could choose not to.

      I can also imagine that if enough people – millions of them – believe that something special is happening and use the idea of 2012 as an opportunity, or excuse, to deliberately change their ways or adopt a more positive, idealistic or spiritual outlook, as happened in the 1960s, then things might well look different by the end of the year. Which would make 2012 a self-fulfilling prophecy …

  26. 84 Alex 10 Mar 2012 at 4:37 pm

    If the source is ‘fragmented’ into many entities then is this just all an illusion-not just the physical plane?? Is a soul an illusion too? Because it sounds like, from what your saying, underneath all existence is a conscious knowing and understanding sort of like our own individual subconscious. Is this all like one big puppet show?

    • 85 barry 11 Mar 2012 at 11:52 pm

      Hi Alex

      As I understand it, it’s like a particle/wave thing. We are both fragments and one at the same time.

      Ultimately, there is the one Spirit or Being or Consciousness or whatever – just as the entire physical universe is, in quantum physics, just one great field, yet it appears in the form of multiple particles, atoms, objects, stars, galaxies, etc. So there is one Spirit, yet that same Spirit has infinite potential to experience its own being in different ways. After all, in a state of oneness there is only one thing lacking – variety. So Spirit transforms itself such that some parts of itself (consciousness) can experience and interact with other parts (forms, objects) and create whole new experiences (events, feelings, ideas). It’s a bit like when your arm goes to sleep and you touch it with your other hand. It feels like you are touching an arm that doesn’t belong to you, yet you know it does.

      This division into subjects, objects and experiences goes on at multiple levels. Spirit takes on the form of multiple souls, and each soul adopts the form of multipe personalities. This downward “fragmentation” is what some teachings call involution, the descent of consciousness and energy into deeper and deeper layers of apparent separation, the bottom layer of which is the physical level. The involution is a necessary precursor to evolution – the ascent of consciousness through physical form.

      So the subject-object “split” is artificial and illusory, since the underlying oneness remains, but that doesn’t mean it is a bad thing or a terrible mistake. Calling the world an illusion can be helpful for those who are unaware of the underlying oneness, but it can be confusing because there are multiple levels of illusion. For example, to the human personality the world itself is no illusion – to think that it is would be a sign of madness.

      The real illusion is that we ourselves are nothing but physical beings in this physical world, completely separate.

      But even this illusion is part of the game we are here to play. At some point in our reincarnational journey, it becomes of value to start seeing through this illusion while incarnate. But before then, we have to buy into it. And of course, we do see through it between lives – as souls we are not confused about the physical plane and our true nature.

      So… Is the soul an illusion? Yes and no. Yes, because there is only one Being, not many. But no because the essence of any soul is the one Spirit. The illusion of many souls isn’t a bad illusion – it’s just the game that Spirit loves playing. Calling it a puppet show makes it sound like rather negative – it is more like a dance of ecstatic joy.

      • 86 Alex 12 Mar 2012 at 4:53 am

        Yes, I understand the complexity of this concept is hard for my small human mind to understand though I really like how you explain it-makes a lot of sense, thank you… :)

  27. 87 Pippa 20 Mar 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Hello Barry,
    How great to read so much information and thoughts. I have a question as well, regarding meeting your twin flame/ twin soul.Does this always happen in the last incarnation, so basically stage 5, as an old soul? As a reward? A completion of your wisdom on the earthplane? It is the most spiritual pure form of love apparently, when the two separated souls from “the beginning” are finally reunited. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you.

    • 88 barry 20 Mar 2012 at 11:12 pm

      Hi Pippa.

      Well, as far as I know it is a myth that twin souls are literally like twins tragically separated at birth, who only get to meet up eons later in some grand romantic reunion. Twin souls know each other very well between lives, and evolve more or less in parallel, sharing life’s lessons with one another. Occasionally they also share actual lives together in different roles – yes, sometimes as lovers/spouses, but also as siblings or as parent-child or as working colleagues. There is nothing to stop them being together in human life, whenever they so choose.

      However, while it may sound wonderful to be in life with this other soul with whom you have such a profound connection, at a personality level it can be unbearably intense. Especially if you are young souls who have not (in life) ever before felt this instant inner bond with another individual. Here is someone who seems to know you inside out, and vice versa – whenever you look at them it’s a bit like looking in a mirror, and you also see a lot of them inside yourself. In our society that’s just not normal – in fact it’s a bit creepy. And far from the two of you spending the whole time walking arm in arm into the sunset, you have to relate to this person in very mundane ways, day in, day out. It can be difficult to pull off. And just to make things more awkward, it’s very possible that the two of you have adopted opposing/complementary personality traits (“overleaves”) in this life (e.g., one with passion, the other with repression).

      Think of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton – clearly made for each other on the inside, but barely able to contain all that intensity between them in a workable relationship. That said, if you can make it work, it makes for a profound and beautiful relationship. I speak from experience as I suspect my own son is mine.

  28. 89 Andre 02 Apr 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Hello Barry,

    It was nice to go through your blog. I have a quick question:

    Considering that being a king of a country or president/PM of a state appears to be one pole of a King/Servant scenario, every soul would want to experience being a king at least once in order to gain experience on how it is being a king! (I cant think of anything similar to being an actual king or a president of a country that would give a similar experience). Something similar would be with the experience of being extremely rich (a billionaire) that is an opposite pole to being extremely poor. Even if I am a soul and for me being a king or extremely rich is just another experience as being a slave or a servant or a poor man; I would definitely feel incomplete without gaining that experience at least once.

    Now, considering that we already have 6 billion souls entrapped in human bodies over here and growing strong, and there could be perhaps at least a few millions if not billions wanting to take birth; how will the equation work. I mean considering that we have just 200 countries in the world, we are looking at accommodating some several billion souls as kings or heads of the sate within the limit of 200 max in one go over an earth era. And there are just around 1200 Billionaires at this moment perhaps highest ever.

    Going by the predicted age of our planet earth (scientific one and not the astrological one) we would require at least some several hundred thousands of king like or billionaires voids at the same time in every era even in order for even a fraction of the souls the gain what I feel an indispensable experience. And we know that’s practically impossible. So are we looking at a possibility of a huge chunk of existing souls not being able to get completely evolved as the availability of a very important experience is too limited on earth?

    • 90 barry 02 Apr 2012 at 7:08 pm

      Hi Andre

      Good question. The experiences of being a king, president or a billionaire are certainly rare and extreme — that is part of the attraction, to human beings at least. And yes, the simple fact is there will never be enough thrones in human history for each of us to have a go at sitting on one.

      But our souls are fully aware of that and don’t really care. Our evolution is not limited by not running a country. Our evolution occurs in the context of relationships and the choices we make in those contexts, and one-to-one relationships are usually enough.

      The particular relationship experience you refer to is actually master/servant rather than king/servant. You team up with a soul mate and you agree to incarnate together twice, one of you being the “master” in one life with the other being the “servant”, and then vice-versa in a subsequent life. You don’t have to run a country or a business empire to experience being the “master” — being the master of that other person is enough. Put it this way: You could do the master side of the relationship as a homeless beggar.

      Similarly, you don’t have to be Donald Trump to experience the pleasures (and pains) of being better off than another person.

      While we (in human personality form) might think it great to be a world ruler or a billionaire, there is no competition or envy between souls for such roles. Being a president isn’t just an experience for one soul, but one that involves and affects millions of others, and all souls so affected will be co-participants in the planned experience.

      And even as a personality, I’m not sure that I would really want such an experience. Well, it might be cool to live in a palace for a day or so, but for year after year? I really wouldn’t want all that responsibility, and fuss, and envy. Besides, I would make a pretty crap leader. I don’t have a kingly bone in my body and I hate making decisions, especially ones that affect other people.

      On the other hand, I must confess that I really fancy being a rich playboy in my next life. But that’s just my personality-focussed consciousness talking, not my wiser, higher being.

  29. 91 Andre 15 Apr 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Oops, I though that last time when I tried posting my question it didnt get posted as there was some error, so I re-posted. Yea I see it now, thanks, it makes sense.

    One left over…. So when is the point of …moment of truth for the soul? When is the moment of self realization? I am how exactly does a soul gets to realize that it has attained all the experiences possible? Is the total number of possible experiences fixed? Is it like the soul realizes that okay here goes the 9976…th experience of the bi-polar that could ever be…? Whats the symptom of the last incarnation of the last stage of an old soul?

    • 92 barry 15 Apr 2012 at 1:47 pm

      The soul’s journey can be likened to a gay person coming out. At first, the person is gay but isn’t yet aware of it. Then they start to become aware of it but maybe take a while to confirm it for sure. There might be a period of experimentation, perhaps in secret, before they finally feel the confidence and self-assuredness that publicly coming out is not only right but also necessary – the truth deserves to be known.

      In the same way, we begin reincarnating as divine beings in our own right, but we don’t yet get it. We are captivated by the world we see before us, and oblivious to our own nature.

      In fact, there are five “coming outs” – as infant souls, then as baby souls, and so. In each stage there is a process of becoming more aware of our true nature and then publicly owning it.

      We start off immersed in all-that-is, not yet aware of ourselves as individuals. Through life experiences we gradually become more aware of ourselves and others, more confident in who we are, until finally there is nothing to hide.

      It’s not just about becoming aware of who and what we are, but also who and what others are too. A young soul is very aware of their own independent existence, but not so much of the equal validity of others. They see life as a contest and others as either collaborators or competitors. A mature soul gets the equality of our beings, but doesn’t yet fully appreciate the bigger picture of which it is a part, the perfection and purpose in every moment. The old soul gets the bigger picture and the perfect place of self and other within it, and thus is able to finally “come out” as a divine being amongst other divine beings, all parts of the same whole.

      The last life is, in effect, one in which we confidently go around expressing the truth that “I am God and so are you.” The world is simply the arena that has enabled us to get to this point, and after this we no longer need it.

      As with the coming-out analogy, we were always perfect divine beings of love and joy and creative power in our own right, but at first we were unconscious of the fact. Now we are finally shouting it from the rooftops!

  30. 93 arekusandaa 16 Apr 2012 at 2:17 am

    Hm. I’ve been feeling for quite some time that it would just be better to go “back” to the Tao early rather than through all this development. Simple white light surrounded by peaceful void is looking more appealing than any of those colors.

  31. 94 Andre 20 Apr 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Q) There have been several religions through ages, specially the oriental ones who have firmly and explicitly believed in the concept of gradual soul evolution and eventual self realization through reincarnations. However how does all this fall with a few of the more or less occidental religions who rather believe in one life one birth theory and perhaps a Resurrection day, Judgment day at the end of creation. Assuming that all the religions are mere reflection of the same super-consciousness lets say TAO, Krishna, Allah or GOD for that matter, why this discrepancy?

    • 95 barry 20 Apr 2012 at 5:35 pm

      I would say that all religions begin with and contain a kernel of truth but then develop layer upon layer of culture-specific nonsense.

      The kernel of truth comes from the teachings of an individual who has had at least some direct contact with Truth (Krishna, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, etc). These individuals are beyond old soul – they have already completed the reincarnational journey but have returned to human form one more time to relieve some portion of humanity of its cultural illusions.

      A lot of early societies fall into self-defeating beliefs and values, such as the “need” for human sacrifice to appease the gods. Advanced, wise and charismatic souls occasionally come among them to show that there is a more enlightened alternative, and their teachings are designed to kick-start a cultural swing that is more in alignment with Truth. Not fully evolved and enlightened, but just less mired in illusion than what went before.

      The aspect of Truth they have each taught was, I imagine, tailored to correct the worst illusions that were prevalent at their time and place. There is no point trying to convey the truth of nondualism, say, to Baby and Young souls. So Moses, Confucius and Mohammed gave moral laws that taught unruly populations to refrain from selfish, exploitative actions. Eventually – inevitably – those laws became instruments of corrupt power, ironically in the hands of religious leaders such as the Sanhedrin. In that case, Jesus then came and taught the people to love one another over and above blind obedience to law.

      So the teachings that are taught are coming from revelations of universal Truth but are given in such a way that is relevant to the specific culture at the time. The followers assimilate the teachings to whatever extent they are able (some of them will be old souls, others will be mature, young and even baby souls). The teacher dies and the followers pass on the teachings as *they* have understood them, and eventually some will set the teachings down in writing as sacred scriptures. At that point, the level of understanding may be far from the essence of Truth that was originally taught, and will probably contain some wrong ideas.

      The belief in reincarnation took hold in East Asia thanks to the teachings of Krishna – in those cultures it has become an accepted fact of life, taught to children. All religions are taught in simplified form to children as a way to lay down absolute ground rules and pass on cultural beliefs, but when those children grow up they do not necessarily deepen their understanding, and so pass on their simplistic understanding. This takes the cultural understanding even further from the original teaching.

      Also, some “teachings” are made up by authorities just to keep the population in line. Concepts such as hell, damnation, judgement day and so on are just nonsense, no doubt intended to scare and coerce people into “correct” behaviour, yet they too become deeply embedded in their respective cultures as “truths”.

      Cosmic myths such as judgement day and the war between God and Satan are particularly attractive to Baby souls – it enables them to make better sense of an abstract spiritual teaching. (For example, for a Baby soul the idea of loving everyone is a bit of a stretch, but the idea of bad people going to Hell is simple and easy to communicate.)

      The Eastern religions, while conveying the truth of reincarnation, also have their nonsense aspects. The notion that human beings reincarnate as animals for doing bad deeds is one example, as is the notion that reincarnation is something we must try to escape from by renouncing all Earthly desire.

      So, short answer, all religions come from the same place – an enlightened individual’s dissemination of selected teachings, which are necessarily tailored to the local population. And once the teacher has gone, the teachings become simply words to simplify, complexify, argue about, distort, misinterpret, reinterpret, delete, forget, etc. That’s not to say that the teaching has had no effect – the kernel of truth is still there, and it is that which inspires people’s hearts. All religions have had, I would say, an amazingly positive effect within their original populations. But at the same time, they are just as open to corruption and abuse as any other closed institution.

      • 96 Andre 20 Apr 2012 at 6:15 pm

        Tx Barry, well said! :)

  32. 97 B 23 Apr 2012 at 5:14 am

    I just had a thought. Are most of us on earth on the “last leg” of the journey? Is that why there’s a sudden boom in the population? Is this why everyone seems so into their own thing and solitary (for the most part). Are the old souls coming back for their last time? The new ones will continue elsewhere other than earth? I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone.

    It’s just something I thought of and wanted to write before the thought left my head. I’m the type of person that thinks things and just ….meh…. who cares and then drop it. This way, my thought will be recorded and others can weigh in on it.

    • 98 barry 23 Apr 2012 at 6:11 am

      Hi B – Are you suggesting that humanity may be about to become extinct?

  33. 99 Andre 10 May 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Dear Barry, I am in a kind of debate with a few people on soul evolution et al. Could u post the list of some of the bi polar experiences that the soul would want to experience? Also I might just copy paste some info from this web site but would paste on the link side by side. I hope u dont mind?

    • 100 barry 10 May 2012 at 3:04 pm

      You mean what the Michael teachings refer to as the “external monads”?

      The classic list is:
      Teacher/Student; Parent/Child; Imprinter/Imprinted; Siblings (brother/brother, brother/sister, sister/sister); Husband/Wife; Leader/Follower; Attacker/Victim; Healer/Healed; Rescuer/Rescued; Integrator/Eccentric; Hopelessly Loving/Hopelessly Loved; Passionate/Repressed; Dependent/Independent; Pivotal Facilitator/Facilitated; Slovenly/Meticulous; Passive/Aggressive; Adept/Apprentice; Artist/Patron; Deserter/Abandoned; Profligate/Tempered; Innocent/Sophisticate; Promiscuous/Impotent; Master/Slave; Player/Pawn; Defender/Defended; Hidden/Disclosed; Slander/Slandered; Jailer/Prisoner; Tandem Monad; Love Monad (unconditional love, that is)

      See here for a bit of explanation:
      http://www.michaelteachings.com/agreements.html
      http://truthloveenergy.com/forum/topics/external-monads

      Yes, feel free to link :-)

      • 101 Andre 10 May 2012 at 3:47 pm

        Cool tx thats what I wanted….:)

        • 102 Andre 10 May 2012 at 4:49 pm

          This is what I posted on my face book where in I keep having verbal battles with a few more intellectually evolved people. Plz let me know If I need to correct something:

          ALL ABOUT REINCARNATIONS, SOUL EVOLUTION AND LIFE IN ITSELF AND WHY WE ARE HERE (BROKEN DOWN TO NUTS AND BOLTS): So far so good! Two stages of life over for me… awesome experiences I gained…looking forward on gaining some more equally awesome experiences in the coming years. By the way, by “awesome” I don’t really mean “good” experiences as per worldly standards but “extreme” experiences. Any experience that is extreme is an awesome experience from the perspective of soul evolution. Its the extreme ends that a reincarnating soul looks for in order to get a grasp on the entirety of it.

          Reincarnation? I know there would be many people raising their eyebrows on this but after doing immense research on these topics right from my very early childhood I have turned into a firm believer in this theory, just like several others who initially were taught about “one birth one life theory”. I have nothing against the people who believe that way and thats their faith, and in a way its good to believe that its only this life to make it or break it, to end up being in hell or heaven, and u don’t tend to get laid back as in case if u know you can always make up for it in a later life…..but there it ends for me…There are too many questions that are left unanswered by one birth one life theory which are appropriately answered by the reincarnation theory. And after doing critical analysis of both the views Reincarnation theory scores over in big way atleast for me. If you dont believe I respect your non belief and plz carry on with your belief but I would not want to get into an argument on this at this moment as I have been there seen it all!

          The grass is always greener on the other side (either ways), what really sucks is being in the middle in no mans land. I ll talk about it later on but just wanted to say that I have enjoyed all the extreme experiencess that I lived through till now and now its time to switch over to the other extreme from here on. So what I am looking at is leading a life of non smoker, non doper, teetotaler, vegetarian (possibly vegan) , monogamous, loyal, carrier oriented, materialistic yet detached (till now I was non materialistic but attached) , humble, polite, patient, non arrogant, non critical, non emotional etc etc!

          There are 35 stages that a soul (fragment of super-conscious) evolves through by gathering experiences on earth (or similar planets all across the universe) eventually to evolve enough to realize that its a part of super consciousness. Thats the only aim of life as we see through the creation: To realize it self! Just in-case you are wondering how did I or someone else came up with this number of 35, well the answer is very practical and simple. The answer is through channeling. Channeling is a phenomena by which we can interact with departed souls, in this case a group of already evolved souls called entity (a group of 12 souls to be precise). And well all this research happened over a period of several decades in geographic regions that firmly believed in one birth one life theory. Anyway its a wast wast topic…..more wast than one could imagine.

          However, In gist, we are fragments detached from the eternal TAO (GOD) and we are on our journey of evolution through incarnation to evolve to the point where we realize we are a part of TAO. The soul before each incarnation along with the soul guides decided upon which experiences to gather in the coming incarnation,and chalks down a plan in colaboration with other to be incarnating, or already incarnated souls, to gather it once on earth. We forget about the entire plan till we don’t die again as else if we are aware of the souls plan we would not feel the pinch of our experiences. Lets say that if we were to be aware that my soul wants to expirence how it is losing a grown up son (lets say my only son dies due to an accident at the age of 20) then we would not be able to feel the pinch, the trauma, the pain of it as we would know that its all pre planned. The expirence would be useless for the soul then. By default the souls are interested in the extreme ends of a given trait as they can make up for everythign in between. Some common extreme ends that the soul would want to experience through the human body would be:
          Parent/Child; Imprinter/Imprinted; Siblings (brother/brother, brother/sister, sister/sister); Husband/Wife; Leader/Follower; Teacher/Student; Attacker/Victim; Healer/Healed; Rescuer/Rescued; Integrator/Eccentric; Hopelessly Loving/Hopelessly Loved; Passionate/Repressed; Dependent/Independent; Pivotal Facilitator/Facilitated; Slovenly/Meticulous; Passive/Aggressive; Adept/Apprentice; Artist/Patron; Deserter/Abandoned; Profligate/Tempered; Innocent/Sophisticate; Promiscuous/Impotent; Master/Slave; Player/Pawn; Defender/Defended; Hidden/Disclosed; Slander/Slandered; Jailer/Prisoner; Tandem Monad; Love Monad (unconditional love, that is)

          To make it clearer a soul would be more interested in being born as an etremely poor person rather than a moderately rich person, and being born as an extremely rich person is just as equal to soul as an extremely poor one is. Poor or rich are just human perceptions, for soul its just another important extreme experiences. A soul would prefer to live fast and die young as an extremist ( extrimest is not equal to a terrorist though a terrorist is equal to an extrimist ) instead of living a moderate life and dying old. Moderation is of interest to a soul as long as it comes as an outcome of an extreme attempt to disipline oneself by earthly terms, but means nothing as long as you are being moderate because you are moderate by nature! Similarly a soul would prefer being born in a body that’s too tall or too short rather than of being ideal height as those expereinces will leave more scope for evolution. Once these extremes are experienced the soul might not even bother how tall or short the body is or how rich or poor the incarnation is, as it would be focusing on gathering other experiences. Here is some inof on what the soul looks for depending on the stage of its evolution.

          1st Level Initiation into the new stage. Toe in the water. First glimpses of the new consciousness.

          2nd Level Building foundations. Wading in and out. Compare and contrast the old and new consciousness.

          3rd Level Taking the plunge. Letting go of the prior stage. Actively exploring the new consciousness.

          4th Level Relaxing into it, enjoying the water. Identification with this stage. Internal integration of the new consciousness.

          5th Level Splashing about. “Look at me!” Going public with it. Expressing this level of consciousness.

          6th Level Responsible swimming. Burning off any karma incurred. Harmonization one’s consciousness with others.

          7th Level Mastery of consciousness at this level. Role model. Peak performance. What’s next?

          This is just the tip of the tip of the iceburg……there is too much of info available on net or othervise on the entire topic but heres a link that kind of put things in gist and answers the most basic questions that can come to your mind about the entire phenomenon. The creator of the site is a middle aged Psychologist from US for whom this entire phenomenon is more a matter of passion rather than a religious indulgence!

          Here is the link: http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/reincarnation-the-35-steps/#comment-13797

          Answers to some questions he has already answered:

          Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why don’t we just give up and be done with it? Can’t I just decide that this is my last time?

          You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the soul’s perspective). You wouldn’t rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, it’s more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. That’s what the game is all about.

          Who says?

          There’s no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to “graduate” and who doesn’t. It’s just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. There’s a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And we’ve all signed up for it.

          But why? What’s it all about?

          Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life.

          How does it do that?

          By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self.

          And that’s why we are here?

          We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realized beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.

          • 103 barry 10 May 2012 at 5:22 pm

            Nice. Just a few points:

            1. This bit — “A soul would prefer to live fast and die young … Similarly a soul would prefer being born in a body that’s too tall or too short rather than of being ideal height as those expereinces will leave more scope for evolution.” — Well, that could be read as meaning that anyone of average height or living to old age must be doing life wrong from their soul’s perspective. I know that’s not what you mean, but it’s open to that interpretation. There are times when being extremely this or that serves the soul, but while it’s focused on one extreme thing it probably helps if the rest of life is in the “normal” range. I would say that life from the human personality perspective is not how the soul sees it. We value things like material success, power, self-esteem and being popular, but a soul who already knows all about fame and fortune might live a hugely “successful” life as an alcoholic tramp who is rejected by society – both experiences would be of immense intrinsic value to an evolving consciousness. So too is the experience of being mediocre, mellow, average… It depends on where the individual soul is in the whole spectrum of self-realisation. A Baby Scholar, for example, is likely to be pedantic and not very sociable – to expand from that space it might design a life where it is thrown in at the deep end of mucking in with extraverts, like e.g. being born into a huge family and then joining the army….

            2. I note that you describe the seven levels within a stage but not the five stages themselves… any reason for that?

            3. I’m not from the US!!! I’m a Brit. :-)

            good luck,

            B

            • 104 Andre 11 May 2012 at 12:47 pm

              1) Got it….Yeah that’s not what I had meant but now when I read it, my framing could be misinterpreted. I understood the 1st point and not to side line the experiences which might not be labeled as extremes. :)

              2) Haha u will laugh on the reason behind this one. I had intended to put in the five stages first along with the interpretation, followed by the seven levels. However, I realized that the five stage explanation was a picture file, and being a Facebook post I didn’t want to put it as a picture and then the rite up, and rather than converting it into text I though anyway people will get to go through the complete thing on your web site. :) Anyway, today I ll put is as an add on :)

              I feel even though at times some people might ignore it, ridicule it, debate it or pretend being not interested in it but a majority of people are inherently inquisitive about these topics and would want to explore it.

              3) You got me there! :) I kind of assumed it in the flow of things :) and to be honest it was pricking my subconscious and I was kind of hoping it to turn into a fluke… :). Though, I guess it still solves my purpose of trying to make the point that the site is not developed by a person who is kind of brought upon the notion of reincarnations and does not have any religious prejudice in its favor and thus can analyse it from the point of neutrality.

              TX TC :)

              • 105 Andre 11 May 2012 at 12:57 pm

                And just now I realized that inadvertently I ended up putting some 7 irresistible smilies, in there, looking
                like twinkling stars….. :) Oops…

                • 106 Andre 11 May 2012 at 5:56 pm

                  One quick question dear……now that some of the enlightened souls have revealed to us some of the best kept secrets about evolution and reincarnation; and now that there are people who firmly believe in it (including me), how do we tackle life? For me the entire perception of life has changed. The realization that perhaps the worst we are encountering is just pre-planed by our souls might make me not to feel the pinch of it. how do I deal with this crisis?

                  • 107 barry 11 May 2012 at 7:22 pm

                    I know what you mean, having gone through similar questions myself. Like, isn’t it “cheating” to know why you are here in this life? But.. There is very little chance that your recent grasp of reincarnation and the whole game of life has taken your soul by surprise. More likely, you are where you planned to be right now, coming to a stage at which you are ready to take responsibility for your own growth, rather than have stuff “just happen” to you and then reflect upon it in your after-life review.

                    So how to live your life now? As ever, by your own choice, but with the understanding that (a) it IS by your own choice, (b) you cannot make a wrong choice, except by your own evaluation, and (c) the major things that happen to you – and to others around you – are unlikely to be random happenstance but growth points.

                    That said, don’t expect to understand exactly why any of it happens at the time. I.e., don’t give yourself a hard time if tough things keep happening and you can’t figure out what they mean. You’re still in the game, just wising up to how it works.

                    • 108 Andre 12 May 2012 at 7:31 pm

                      Humm I am kind of getting it. Perhaps, it could be a part of my soul plan for my mind/brain to get this knowledge about soul evolution in order to add another dimension to my life.

                      1) Its a kind of freaky feeling to realize that my soul is right now inside this body witnessing everything through the senses and writing this up, and my brain and mind knows it theoretically why its here. But cant I feel my soul as a soul inside my body? I mean I can feel that my physical brain is thinking and then there is something even deeper that is making it to think the way it is. I know its there but I still cant get to it. I mean I get the feeling as if its so close yet so far. Is “my soul” a right phrase in itself or am “I” and the soul the same?

                      2) I wonder what would be the difference in the levels of consciousnesses once the soul is out of this body, whenever. lets say I was a scientist, and then a painter in two of my previous lives, and in this life I am a dancer. I am intelligent and artistic dancer but dont remember anything directly related to science or paintings in this life. Now when this dancer dies and the soul is out of the body will it all of a sudden be conscious of all the scientific and artistic knowledge of the previous lives? Also, once the soul is out of the body is it able to see, smell, hear, talk, “think” “remember”etc like we can at this moment? Does a soul “thinks over” the next life? does a soul have something like a brain of its own? Is the way our brains think different from the way our souls think? How does it retain the experiences earned over different lives? Is there a memory system. Why does its color change as it evolves, is there a “matter” aspect as well of the soul?

                    • 109 barry 14 May 2012 at 9:35 am

                      1) Well, when you speak of “my soul” that’s a bit of a contradiction because your soul isn’t something you HAVE, like a laptop or a bank account. You ARE your soul. And as a soul, you HAVE a body, a brain, a mind, a personality, a social identity, a job, a history…etc. None of those is you. Indeed, all the things which people normally think of as “me” are just temporary add-ons. This is what is meant by identification – incarnate consciousness becomes identified with their physical, psychological and social structures, thinking that those are “who I am” rather than the consciousness at the centre of all that.

                      Again, when you ask if you can FEEL your soul, the question itself is erroneous. You are the one who feels, not something that is felt. Asking if you can feel your soul implies that there is “you” over here and a thing called “soul” over there, and “you” want to be able to feel that thing called “soul”. But you ARE your soul; you are the consciousness that feels.

                      Likewise if you try to perceive your soul, it’s like an eyeball trying to see itself. You are the consciousness that perceives.

                      When you say that your soul seems so close, again you cannot get closer to your soul because you are your soul. Or to be more precise, you are a portion of eternal soul that has squeezed itself into this human form for the duration of a number of decades. Some people get confused by this because they imagine that if they were a soul then surely they would have knowledge about the afterlife and remember their past lives. But the soul does not bring those memories into human form with it. Those memories are accessible, but not easily while we have a human brain. You have to be in a more transcendent state of consciousness to get at them. The difficulty is that we are used to “knowing” stuff through our physical senses and mental constructs. So it seems logical to us that to know our own soul we have to somehow perceive it or intellectually analyse it. Those are dead-end roads, however. To know yourself as your soul is a matter of relaxing into yourself and recognising yourself BEING, just being conscious, being present in the present, always being present and always becoming conscious.

                      2) The memories and knowledge are accessible to the soul after death but I’m not sure about becoming conscious of them “all of a sudden” – that sounds like being flooded with zillions of memories. To be conscious of something you have to put your attention on it, so if the soul wants to remember its last few lives then it just has to direct its consciousness that way.

                      As for sensory experiences, my understanding is that one of the things that really souls look forward to when coming back to Earth is physical sensation. A soul, without a body, cannot feel tactile sensations the way we do. Of course, that includes pain as well as things like the softness of skin and the feeling of sand between your toes.

                      Yes, a soul thinks over its next life. It doesn’t have a brain. Rather, it is a manifestation of pure intelligence. Memories of past experiences are retained not inside the soul but within the universal intelligence, the “Akashic records” if you like. Though that’s a bit of a false dichotomy again – there is no absolute separation between souls and the universal intelligence.

                      I don’t know why colour changes, except that it reflects increasing frequency of consciousness.

                      The soul between lives is in a world of astral matter, which is not the same as our hard objective physical matter but, as far as I understand, cosmic “light” given subjective form. You can dream up a castle and there it is. (See the movie What Dreams May Come, which explores this aspect).

  34. 110 nick 14 May 2012 at 5:41 am

    how do you feel about astrological signs in relevance to the michael teachings? …i believe im an old soul at stage 4… im also a quadruple scorpio (sun,moon,venus and pluto) … from my understanding it’s said that scorpio’s tend to be old soul’s, sparking the arousal of my question.

    • 111 barry 14 May 2012 at 8:45 am

      I know next to nothing about astrology, so I can’t really answer this. That said, I seriously doubt that sun signs correlate with soul age. My mother was a Scorpio and she was no old soul. It would be great if it were possible to work out someone’s soul and personality profile from their astrological chart. As far as I understand it, though, the chart has to more to do with karma and the life plan.
      cheers

      • 112 Andre 14 May 2012 at 4:05 pm

        Hey Barry, i couldn’t find a reply tab next to the answer you had put for my query so I am replying here. Gr8 response! That pretty much makes it clear for me. I especially liked your example i.e. ” Likewise if you try to perceive your soul, it’s like an eyeball trying to see itself. ” Lol :)

        Its a co incidence that Nick inquired about Astrological interaction with the re incarnation aspect, that was something I was about to ask next. Must say that my default state has always been of a critic and end up building upon in favor of something, slowly ,only after gradual critical analysis. To be honest I haven’t yet read Michaels words on astrological signs. But I guess I must tell you about my experience on astrology.

        There are broadly two main categories of astrology 1) The western form where in the sun is the pivotal of the chart, and 2) The eastern form (Vedic astrology) where Moon is the pivotal of the chart. I haven’t had that much success with the western form of astrology based on the sun sign (not that it might not be working for some others but it didn’t for me. However, I have had scintillating if not shocking experiences with the moon based astrology, were in more importance is placed on the time of birth along with date of birth. My life was broken down to nuts and bolts in front of my eyes by one of my maternal uncles, who was a very renowned Vedic astrologer in India apart from being a well renowned painter, architect, interior designer and a wild life conversationalist. (gosh!)

        He took my date, time and place of birth info, went inside his room came out with a hand drawn chart on a small piece of paper and started shooting the nukes abt my past, in so much details that I kind of became embarrassed. There were things that absolutely no one knew about me except for myself! Just as a small example he kind of told me the exact month when I was contemplating suicide as a youngster. Then he went on with the predictions that at that moment seemed impossible but just every word of his eventually turned out to be true! There is absolutely no question of co-incidence or fluke, and if not for astrology he should have had a time machine to be that accurate! He is no more now (I mean in earthly terms) but I wish he had been there! I still don’t go blind over astrology but have just developed more respect and take it as a word of caution at times, specially the moon based version of it.

        Especially now that I know that the major things that happen in our life are kind of pre-decided by us before our birth in physical realm, I wont be surprised if the super consciousness has devised astrology as a part of creation for the soul to set up a blue print with a wisdom to decipher it by physical beings. Just to add the the fun of the game ;). And may be this blue print serves as another leaf for every birth in the overall book of souls journey; who knows probably in Akashic plain. Just a thought.

        The interesting part about the lunar based astrology is that its building blocks are exceedingly complex mathematical calculations and exact positioning of heavenly bodies that are not random but cyclic in nature. And there are just in-numerous permutations and combinations when several more discrete aspects are added to it that can span the rich variance of experiences in any human life. And when we talk about the most important aspects in a persons life that are pre-planed by the soul, a vedic astrological chart has 12 houses and each house has a specific meaning, that I feel more or less covers most of the most important aspects of any birth. The 12 houses in a nut shell are….

        1) The first house: House of SELF.

        2) Second house: The house of WEALTH & POSSESSIONS.

        3) The third house: The house of COURAGE and SIBLINGS and COMMUNICATION.

        4) The fourth house: The house of FAMILY, HOME and MOTHER.

        5) The fifth house:PROGENY, ROMAN CE, PLEASURE and COMPETITION.

        6) The sixth house: The house of ENEMY, HEALTH and DISEASE.

        7) The seventh house: MARRIAGE and PARTNERSHIP.

        8) The eight house: The house of ACCIDENTS and DEATH and SEX.

        9) The ninth house: The house of FATE and FORTUNE & PHILOSOPHY.

        10) The Tenth house: The house of PROFESSION & SOCIAL STATUS.

        11) The eleventh hose: CASUAL INCOMES and GAINS and
        FRIENDSHIP.

        12) The twelfth house: The house of EXPENSES and LOSSES and SUBCONSCIOUS.

        I wonder if there is any correlation! :)

  35. 113 Andre 23 May 2012 at 9:34 am

    Dear Barry,

    somewhere I stumbled across this piece of startling information that an incarnating soul can pretty much decide upon any time after conception of a baby to enter the womb and to integrate with the babies mind/brain. It could be right after the conception, few weeks to several months of the embryo, or right at the time of birth itself. But I know that the embryo starts showing signs of perceived life like heart beat etc somewhere along 4 months from conception. I always had this assumption that the moment signs of life appear in an embryo is the time when soul enters, and it dies when the soul leaves. Basically life = soul; But now after this revelation it appears that a living human body is not equal to a human body with soul, i.e. life is not equal to soul. What is life then? Can there be bodies in conception having to takers in spirit realm which are born without the integrated soul to their brains?

    • 114 barry 23 May 2012 at 9:51 am

      The growing embryo is – like all other bodies – made up of living cells. It is the low-level life force of the cells -plus that of the mother’s body – that gives the embryo life, albeit at a rudimentary, instinctive level. There is no consciousness to speak of until the soul who has selected that body enters into it and fuses with the brain. This happens at the time of birth. Prior to that, the awaiting soul might “visit” now and then to check how things are going and get psyched up for the return to Earth, but the foetus is not “ensouled” until the soul makes that final commitment, which is during the birth process. Hence, abortion is not murder as the foetus is not ensouled and in any case the souls involved (mother plus any prospective soul entrant) would know full well that an abortion is on the cards.

      In theory, a baby could be born without a soul having entered into it. It would have a very short lived “vegetable” kind of existence.

      Likewise, a soul can partially depart an adult body, for whatever reason, leaving the body deprived of consciousness – this applies to those in a coma or a persistent vegetative state.

      • 115 Healer-Veritas 28 Aug 2012 at 7:07 pm

        Let me put this simply, since life is really very simple.
        Let’s say you order a vehicle (a car). This vehicle is being put together on an assembly line (like a body in the womb).
        You can start the car in the factory, the engine start (like a heartbeat) …but will have no existence, sense of purpose or sense of direction until YOU actually get in and drive it. Just like a body !!!

  36. 116 insearchoftherhythm 25 May 2012 at 5:57 pm

    i have been very interested in the michael teachings for some time now and just finished reading messages from michael. im 18 years old and at the moment i would say im a late level mature soul because i go through a lot of the struggles and difficulties that the mature soul goes through, and “the search” is always on my mind…but i also feel i might be an old soul because of how young i am and how young i was when i began to soul search and find my true purpose.

    • 117 barry 25 May 2012 at 7:47 pm

      Great to hear from you. Thanks!

  37. 118 Andre 27 May 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Its funny that I was reading the book by Michael Newton “Journey of souls ” side by side your website. I was so impressed if not shaken up by his book that I have become a big fan of his. I know he has written 3 more books since then but I am still in the process of assimilating the first one right now…..Too much of download of this kind of information can very well burn your brain circuits, so I am being cautious. I had a few questions that kind of slightly asks for a bit of debate/analysis perhaps by someone of your grip on the subject, and I was wondering all this while if you have read this book of his, so that I could ask you the doubts. However off late I was inquisitive to now how Mr Newton looked like and I did a google search a few days back. I knew how he looked like but several days later it struck me out of no where that I have seen him on your website. And I went back on to your blog today with confidence that I ll find him there. And, BINGO there I found him lol! :) I ll keep my questions for later as I think I still need to assimilate all the downpour of info that I managed in last few months. So I ll bother you some other time!

    By the way one funny little observation I could make….Most people would want to remain young for ever when it comes to their physical lives and physical bodies….but when it comes to Souls, most would want to assume and belive that they are the old ones….lol :)

  38. 119 Andre 30 May 2012 at 4:13 pm

    One more funny little observation I felt I ought to mention: I remember asking u once, that gaining all this knowledge about life, life after death, life between lives, this entire game, our plans and the possibility that most important things that are happening to us are probably pre-planned, of all, but by us…..isnt it cheating? wont our entire approach change towards life? we might not be able to take the pinch of any tragedies etc that happen to us as we know its all a part of plan? our plan?

    Today something unexpected happened with me and I would have expected that gaining all this wisdom would have prepared me to face anything in life with a pinch of salt and not get affected by it. However, it doesn’t work that way….The complexity, intensity, propensity and efficacy of this physical world is such that during crisis all your attained wisdom, all your mantras, all your understanding of creation and all, gets blocked, overpowered!….even if you would want to be calm sober non reactive owing to the theoretical understanding you have gained about existence and it all, its still too difficult to detach yourself and not to react to situations put in front of you in this physical realm, anyway different than just any other being would! Detachment requires a lot more practical practice than having the understanding of the theoretical part of it! :)

    • 120 barry 30 May 2012 at 6:21 pm

      Couldn’t agree more. I went through a process of thinking that I had finally understood everything, I was even manifesting what i wanted through the law of attraction, and believing that all this made me somehow “untouchable” by life. Then I became seriously ill with a “mystery illness” which almost killed me, and then developed chronic fatigue … All of which at the time seemed like… WTF? And yet with hindsight, it actually makes sense in terms of my growth. So I guess the upshot is, no matter how wise you think you are, expect the unexpected!

  39. 121 Suzette 30 May 2012 at 6:38 pm

    Hi there. My question: Can a soul long to go back to where it came from. I have felt trapped in this body from my teenage years. I understand the life times ect, but cannot agree with the fact that this is the body or the life time my soul has chosen. Am I crazy, and am I the only one feeling this way. Your insight please.
    Suzette

    • 122 barry 30 May 2012 at 9:14 pm

      Hi Suzette

      Certainly not crazy! I suspect that the majority of us have a similar heartfelt longing, a feeling of spiritual “homesickness”, at some time or other, without of course recognising it for what it is. Some cases of depression seem to me to be based on a fundamental dissatisfaction with being here, in a body, limited and transient. It is also common for teenagers to feel out of place once they realise that there is a life waiting for them beyond the family home, and this may have subconscious resonance with the “life beyond” in a spiritual sense.

      The fact is, you have chosen to be here in this body, this life. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have any issue with it. Perhaps this very issue is something you are attempting to deal with in this life – the conflict between being a specific physical entity while intuitively feeling yourself to be something else. But certainly, this life will go more smoothly if you can get to the point of accepting the wisdom in your soul’s choice – accept that your body exists to serve you, not to entrap you.

  40. 123 Andre 31 May 2012 at 3:34 pm

    For the people getting too bothered about how old is their soul: One tiny little gem from the Upanishads (Holy Hindu books summarizing the essence of Vedas (The compilation of the most sacred and ancient of Hindu literature’s:These contained thousand of divine Sanskrit verses that were memorized down to the T, by Hindu monks for a few thousand years and passed on verbally through generations, till the art of writing was developed several thousand years before Christ, and were jotted down on palm leaves)).

    There were 4 vedas in total and Brahmins(Ancient Aryan most intellectual class) were classified on the basis of how many Vedas they could learn by heart. Vedis brahmin could remember one ved out of four, dwvedis could remember two, followed by trivedis (3) and chaturvedis (All 4) ….. Even till date you will get astonished by the memory power of the chaturvedis….

    Anyway….108 upanishads were developed to get the essence out of Vedas and KAthaupanishad was the one that dealt completely with life after death in form of enchanting stories that a commoner would be able to understand. The most famous being of nachiketa who was renounced by his father to yamm (presumed god of death) who under some circumstances had to give three boons to NAchiketa…..and the third boon he asked form yamma was to give the details about what happens after death……He did not budge to ask for something else even after the temptations of being the kind of all worlds.

    One small tale out of upanishads ( not kathaupanishad) : there were two sages (highly evolved men on the way of realization) doing severe penance in order to attain brahma (the ultimate realization) under a Pepul tree ( a huge tree with zillions of leaves. the one under which lord Budha attained nirvana). One day one enlightened master sage passed by them. Both the sages were impressed by the charisma of that sage and tried their best to serve him. When he was ready to go he asked them….you each can ask me one one question and I will answer it. On hearing this the Sage A asked, dear master sage I have been working so hard to attain nirvana for so many lives now please let me know if I ll get it in this life? The master sage smiled and said I really appreciate your hard work and I assure you that if u continue this way you will attain nirvana in another 6 Lives!

    Sage A was distorted hearing this and started sulking and cribbing, I have been trying so hard and still i will have to wait for another 6 lives? Damn!. Now came sage B who asked the same question to the master sage. The master sage said that if you continue in the same way you surely will attain nirvana in as many number of lives, as there are number of leaves on this Pepul tree. On hearing this Sage b became ecstatic and started jumping with joy to madness.

    Once the master sage was gone the sageA asked to sageB, have you gone crazy? He told you that its going to take you zillion of years to attain nirvana and you are so happy?

    Sage B replied Time doesn’t matter for me as long as the divine sage told me that eventually I will surely attain nirvana…that confirms I am on the right path….. and I am so eternally joyful about it.. :D

  41. 124 Andre 17 Jun 2012 at 5:23 pm

    Dear Barry,
    I have started going through the M teachings step by step. However, I have got stuck somewhere. I have taken a hard copy of the entire site for personal reference (don’t know if its legal but I feel more comfortable reading through physical pages rather than online stuff). Anyway, I have got stuck at the place where it talks about “personality chart” and then about 2D-, 3D- and et all. I just couldn’t grasp it. I feel as if I have landed on step 3 directly without getting the knowledge of step one or two. I am not confused but bewildered. I am just not able to make sense of 2D+ 1D+ stuff. I tried looking for a personality chart specimen thinking that that would be a help but couldn’t. Please share your thought on the same so that I am in a better position to make sense of all this, if you know what I mean.

    Also whats the best way to get to know more about your soul plan, and the details about your life’s aim, perhaps the age, the motive, the soul mates, essence twin…want to interact with my spirit guide etc. I am in a very crutial moment of my life and really need help. Plz help and guide me about the right path.

    In fact there were some aspects about my life that I wanted to discuss with someone, perhaps my spirit guide but if he does not want to come then with someone of your grip on the subject. something that can not be discussed in public. Will it be okay if I send u a personal mail about it all. I am in a personal turmoil.

    Plz let me know,

    Thanks and regards,

    All best wishes,

    Andre

    • 125 barry 18 Jun 2012 at 12:30 pm

      Sorry Andre, but I have no idea what you are referring to with that 1D 2D stuff. Which website are you getting this from?

      Soul plan etc – either go for a past life + inter-life regression with a hypnotherapist using Michael Newton’s approach (see http://www.spiritualregression.org/search.php), or find a medium who specialises in getting this information from your guides. Robert Schwarz, in writing Your Soul’s Plan, used the mediums listed here: http://www.yoursoulsplan.com/links.html

      Feel free to contact me privately and I will do my best and in confidence. I am, however, going through a low energy phase at the moment (I have chronic fatigue) so my response time is a bit slower than usual.

      B

  42. 126 Andre 18 Jun 2012 at 6:42 pm

    Heres the link: http://www.michaelteachings.com/overview_michael_wittmeyer.html

    excerpts: “The personality chart is a grid of seven columns and fourteen rows. I call the columns “Processes” in personality. They are titled: Termination, Involution, Analysis, Assimilation, Synthesis, Evolution, and Origination. I call the rows “Aspects” of personality. They are titled: Mode, Role, Center, Level, Attitude, Feature, Goal, Age, Entity, Cadence, Position, Bodytype, Milestone, Service, and Intimacy. Notice that the Processes and Aspects are grouped into “Dimensions”, which are numbered and named: 2-D INSPIRATION and 3-D FORMATION, for instance. Each of the 105 boxes on the chart is called a personality “Trait”.

    A special part of False Personality is called “Maya”. This is Michael’s name for illusions, distorted perceptions, erroneous beliefs and faulty thought patterns. Maya produces unhappiness and fear generally, and sometimes neurotic or inappropriate behavior.”

    My comments here……that word “Maya” is taken right out of the Upanishads….Just Like Akashic planes, and Karma…
    Though I feel Michaels theachings are just a step forward on Upanishads as these are even more detalied…

    Anyway, another excerpt from the same article:

    “THE SEVEN LEVELS

    In the fourth row on the chart is the Aspect called “Level”. Level and Age together make up the Maturation Dimension of the personality. The Maturation Dimension is a sequence, with each Age containing the seven Levels, making forty nine stages of psychological maturity. Every person is at one of these stages. The Level gives an overall theme or emphasis or undercurrent to the lives and perceptions of the people in them.

    FIRST: RESOLUTION (1D-):
    SECOND: FOUNDATION (2D-):
    THIRD: PRODUCTION (3D-):
    FOURTH: COMPOSITION (PD=):
    FIFTH: EXPLORATION (3D+):
    SIXTH: EXALTATION (2D+):
    SEVENTH: ACTIVATION (1D+):

    I am talking about all these 1D +- PD= that I am not being able to make sense of…”

    My Comments here: There were the references for your Eval.

    I understand your situation and pls take your own time, as your health is of prime importance and then as always time is immaterial for me ;) :).

    Yea, I have been through the overview Michael PLRs and also I have been through info about a few PLR therapists in India for a face to face interaction. I dont mind paying the price as long as I get the stuff I am looking for. However, somewhere I feel I am still a bit under-prepared to go for it. Still need to sort myself out a bit before taking the plunge. I will share a few stuff with you about my life by sending you a mail, in due course…if you could share some light on my dilemmas with your experience.

    Take care,

    Wish you a prompt recovery on your energy levels,

    Andre

    • 127 barry 18 Jun 2012 at 7:32 pm

      Ah, this is a personal interpretation by one student of the teachings. Philip has been working on this for some time. It’s his own way of explaining how the system is organised in sevens. The terms and concepts are all his.

      Thanks, BTW :)

  43. 128 Andre 19 Jun 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Oh, so now I know…I ll put it aside for the time being and go through the rest….Though,
    I ll surely come back to his interpretation at a l8r time as I might be in a better position to understand it then….And, I am always fascinated by quantification of any concept…like + -, numbers, formulas, dimensions … etc…. TC :)

  44. 129 Diane 12 Jul 2012 at 11:16 pm

    I’ve recently become curious about reincarnation, I started reading this and thought the site was a nice way to quench my curious mind. I really got offended at the infant stage picture though. Placing a ape like black man as the picture as the infant stage. Wow!!! that was pretty sick!!! Hah, and this is about spirituality?

    • 130 barry 13 Jul 2012 at 8:22 am

      Seriously? The picture shows a reconstruction of Homo erectus, a species of early hominid that probably originated in Asia about 1.8 million years ago, and died out half a million years later. Many of us began reincarnating as infant souls in prehistoric and palaeolithic times. I am sorry but also very surprised if you think my choice of image has racial connotations.

      • 131 Andre 15 Jul 2012 at 8:05 pm

        @ Diane: Even Darwin said that we all “homo sapiens” originated form “Homo Erectus”, I don’t understand where is the problem? The root of your argument is evident in the phrase your constructed ie “ape like black man”! Very prejudiced and judgmental! These ape like black men were the ancestors of the “entire man kind” irrespective of the skin colors, the skin colors generated much later based on the geographic circumstances, and biological adaptations….you like it or not!…

        The homo erectus, were pretty elementary in their ways and means, just like a body an infant soul would acquire….Dont make me think that it would have been okay for you, if Barry had put a very sophisticated looking white skinned man as an example of infant to please your prejudiced mind? Just know that no soul is barred from taking birth as any skin color, ethnicity, religion or whatever as per their evolutionary requirements…..He was just trying to be statically correct!

        • 132 Andre 15 Jul 2012 at 8:54 pm

          Homo erectus “Upright Man”) was the first hominid to leave Africa. His existence dates from 1.6 million years ago to perhaps 200,000 years ago. However, recent discovers have suggested that isolated populations may have existed even later.

          Brain size is put at 850cc, height up to 6 feet and weight was comparable to modern humans.

          Early discoveries of Homo Eretus remains were variously named Peking Man, Java Man and Heidelberg Man. His range was all of Africa, most of Europe and as far east as China.

          Homo sapiens “Man who thinks” The archaic form is dated between 500,000 and 150,000 years ago. Brain size is about 1200cc. for the archaic and 1350 for the modern. Homo sapiens are of lighter build, the forehead shows a sharp rise, the back oc the skull is rounded, eyebrow ridges are very small or more usually absent, teeth are smaller and the chin is prominent.

          Time range:
          erectus : 2 million to 30,000 years BP
          saoiens : 250,000 years BP to the present

          Geography
          erectus : Old World only
          sapiens : Old World and New World

          Physique
          erectus : 1.8 m
          sapiens : 1.4 – 1.9 m

          Body mass
          erectus : 60 kg
          sapiens : 55 – 80 kg

          Brain volume
          erectus : 850 – 1,100 cc
          sapeins : 1,000 – 1.850 cc
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolu…

          Brain to body mass ratio
          erectus : 0.015
          sapiens : 0.022

          Time range:erectus : 2 million to 30,000 years BPsaoiens : 250,000 years BP to the presentGeographyerectus : Old World onlysapiens : Old World and New WorldPhysiqueerectus : 1.8 msapiens : 1.4 – 1.9 mBody masserectus : 60 kgsapiens : 55 – 80 kgBrain volumeerectus : 850 – 1,100 ccsapeins : 1,000 – 1.850 cchttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolu…Brain to body mass ratioerectus : 0.015sapiens : 0.022

  45. 133 goldeneternaltransit 15 Jul 2012 at 9:00 pm

    Be rest assured that its just a matter of choice for your soul to be born as an African, American, European, as a Jew, or supposedly the most intellectual race in the world ie as the Aryans…… the option is left open completely to your soul as per the requirements…..

    • 134 barry 16 Jul 2012 at 12:00 pm

      I have had memories of being a Chinese concubine. I felt that I was pretty good at it, too…

  46. 135 Andres 22 Jul 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Hi Barry, I noticed Osho above listed as a late-stage old soul. Considering the serious accusations against him at that time, do you believe they are true and if so can someone still be an old soul albeit a late-stage old soul if they have taken part in such acts of evil?

    • 136 barry 25 Jul 2012 at 7:17 am

      Interesting question Andres. I had to go on Wikipedia and check out what the charges were exactly.

      My suspicions are:

      1. When he created his movement, and the US community, he created a monster that slipped out of his control. I believe he initially set out to run a small group modelled on Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way, but his teachings became much more popular (after all, Osho was a crowd-pleasing Sage, not a drill sergeant Warrior!).

      2. A late-stage old soul doesn’t really have the worldly focus and energy to run a multinational organisation like a well-oiled machine. They are too laissez-faire to pay much attention to correct management, administration, financials, legalities, etc. (This is not to say that breaking the law is therefore a sign of high evolvement!) So I guess he would have devolved day-to-day power and responsibility to those around him (younger souls) who seemed to know what they were doing. However, those same people would have lacked his joyful overview of life, and ego/fear often got the better of them.

      3. As a late stage Old Sage, Osho probably saw the unfolding dramas differently from how younger souls would interpret them. For example, the Baby souls in the local area would see him as an alien threat – probably one of Satan’s minions. Both Baby and Young souls would immediately pick up on anything that contravened the law as a sign that the man was up to no good. Mature souls would be (and still are !) troubled by any sign of unethical behaviour or lack of integrity. Osho himself, perhaps, might have been aware off all these perceptions and just seen it all as part of the fun of life. I don’t know, of course, I’m just speculating.

      Cheers

      • 137 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 5:41 pm

        You might want to read “The Promise of Paradise: A Woman’s Intimate Story of the Perils of Life With Rajneesh” by Satya Bharti Franklin. She translated most of his early books. Your insights may be correct but the corruption around him was pretty intense. (Lots of Rolls Royces and guns).

        I was the disciple of a Sat Guru similar to Neem Karoli Baba (also on your list) and I do think some Gurus come in with unfinished business. They may be powerful Siddahs but have ego in toxic ways. Ram Das once commented the truly great Gurus had no interest in the West, its materialism, power, or sexual allure. My Guru ran a large organization but never fell prey to these things.

        Osho to me is like Trungpa RImpoche. Brilliant, charismatic, powerful, but flawed. So I”m not so sure they’re truly in the old soul category, or if they are, they fell prey to some of the temptations of the West.

        According to Franklin, Osho was antisemitic and expressed it on several occasions.

        Yet he had a great deal to do with healing the rift between sexuality and spirituality.

  47. 138 Tom 23 Jul 2012 at 3:08 am

    Just found your site and would like to thank you for it. Great insights and good luck on your soul path. I’m pretty sure I’m an old soul not sure which level but I think 6th.

    • 139 barry 23 Jul 2012 at 6:27 am

      Thanks Tom

  48. 140 Nora 18 Aug 2012 at 1:35 am

    Hello..!

    I just read the 35 steps and I found it very interesting but at the same time, not surprised! Because I have gone through those early stages and levels of development and I can easily identify and recall when those experiences started to blend then emerge onto a different. It’s funny because I have always wondered why I felt differently about certain things in my life, past and present. And because of that I have become so aware of my feelings and thoughts and how it affects my everday life especially when it comes to other peoples opinions and political issues. I have learned to have a lot of patience and compassion with strangers, it’s become 2nd nature to me :)

    I am 28 yrs old, and just by reading through the steps and the experiences surrounding each stage I would be sitting at a Matured Soul – Stage 5…. That is me in a nut shell! But I do feel every now and then, a bit older, as if I am in later stages of my soul development… it comes in waves.. :)

    I would like to thank you for sharing this very insightful information with us!

    Lots of <3 and Blessings to you..

    Nora

    • 141 barry 18 Aug 2012 at 9:18 am

      Thanks Nora. I’m impressed you can identify yourself so precisely!
      B

  49. 142 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Barry,

    I am deeply grateful for your insights, the Michael teachings and assembling this site. What an amazing resource! I was guided here by angel Daniel of the IET angels (angel of forgiveness) after flipping out over a political issue. The perspectives and information here have helped enormously.

    I personally feel I am a mature soul at a pretty mid level or as Michael Newton would put it an advanced intermediate moving toward advanced.

    I like your take that by 40 or more we evolve (hopefully) into our true level. That feels very right to me.

    My question is, it seems we can embody more than one level at one time so we can be a little bit of an amalgam although the core piece may be constant. I have great empathy at times, strong spiritual development, intelligence but also can be very self righteous (My way-I’m right), judgmental, and non forgiving. Some of these may be by products of karmic and family of origin wounds.

    So it feels like I have some “young soul” energy still in me, even a teeny bit of baby soul while being foundationally more mature.

    What is your take on this possibility that several stages in various forms can coexist?

    Thanks,

    Ken Kaplan

    • 143 Ken Kaplan 18 Aug 2012 at 5:55 pm

      Based on your chart I would be mature at level 5 moving to 6. I teach this stuff (going public).

      Ken

    • 144 barry 19 Aug 2012 at 9:28 am

      Hi Ken

      Thanks for the feedback.

      Yes, you can appear to embody different soul ages. I say “appear to” because your soul (i.e. you in essence) is definitely at a particular step in its evolving consciousness. But in each human life we take on a body with consciousness at square one. As we go through the normal stages of human life, we gradually reawaken to ourselves in and through this new body, and in doing so more of our true consciousness is able to manifest.

      So early in life you act like an infant soul, as a kid more like a baby soul, and so on. And, as an adult, these early ways of being are still there inside you, like the rings inside a tree. If you get very drunk, for example, you could regress to an earlier level – not in your soul level per se, but in how you are manifesting through your behaviour.

      At the same time, higher levels of consciousness are also accessible. That is, we can experience moments of transcendent joy, wisdom, love, truth, bliss, energy, unity, divinity, and so on in what are called peak experiences and spiritual awakenings. Such experiences reveal to us things that are “ahead of our time”. A baby soul, for example, could have a peak experience and realise the equal value of all human beings, which is somethig that mature souls tend to take for granted. A mature soul could have a peak experience and realise the underlying unity of existence. It’s just that we cannot stabilise in those higher states until we have done the work of evolving to that level, changing ourselves step by step.

      So, we can act and feel beneath our true level and we can experience above our level. But otherwise we will operate at our own level – it’s like our centre of gravity.

  50. 145 Christy 28 Aug 2012 at 10:33 pm

    So… what happens when the Sun expands and the Earth is no more? Who first thought up of the entire idea of reincarnation? Is this part of the Christian religion, and if so, where in the bible does it say that we, as God’s sons and daughters, reincarnate 100 times?

    • 146 barry 28 Aug 2012 at 11:37 pm

      - What happens when the Sun expands and the Earth is no more?

      That will be a about 5 billion years from now, so I doubt it’s an issue in terms of reincarnation. Besides, we are not exactly limited in our choice of available planets and species.

      - Who first thought up of the entire idea of reincarnation?

      We did. Or if you prefer, God did.

      - Is this part of the Christian religion?

      Not any more.

      - Where in the bible does it say that we, as God’s sons and daughters, reincarnate 100 times?

      It doesn’t as far as I know.

  51. 147 Christy 28 Aug 2012 at 10:38 pm

    also, what about the people who go to Hell? what happens to them?

    • 148 barry 28 Aug 2012 at 11:39 pm

      Some people find themselves in “hell” after death. But it is a hell of their own making, and it vanishes as soon as they find self-forgiveness.

  52. 149 Ken Kaplan 29 Aug 2012 at 2:58 am

    From all my research there is no hell, but I agree that the remorse or guilt a soul initially can feel after crossing over can feel like hell. Many are confronted with the enormity of their cruelty to others. MY father came to me after he died , “put his head in my lap” and cried uncontrollably asking my forgiveness. A clairvoyant friend saw this. She described my father perfectly down to his voice, but knew nothing about him.

    This phase passed for him rather quickly and he united with his essence of love.

    So whatever “hell’ there was resembled the type of range of reactions we might go through here, except they are more intense.

  53. 150 Ken Kaplan 30 Aug 2012 at 4:47 am

    7th level old soul. Be careful There is a huge difference between a John Muir, a highly developed human, and Nem Karoli Baba, an Avatar. John Muir doesn’t appear in dreams to guide you. Neem Karoli Baba did for me, in iridescent fashion.True Gurus are pure expressions of source energy. There’s no ego present at all.

    Don Juan was made up. Its been documented.

    If Lieberman is a mature soul, he is an extremely beginning one because he is so self serving.

    Be careful.

    • 151 barry 30 Aug 2012 at 6:27 am

      Well, I do try to be! I borrow these from channelled sources (i.e., I don’t make them up) – you should see the less credible ones I left out! But I think some corrections are in order, so thanks.

      7th level Old – AFAIK you don’t *have* to spend your life as a guru; but communing with nature/spirit is more a 7th level Mature thing, so perhaps that one is off.

      Don Juan Matus – agreed. Mind you, it is perfectly possible to characterise fictional characters by their soul age & type and other overleaves. I would see Homer Simpson, for example, as an early-stage Young Artisan with Aggression mode. :)

      Lieberman – I know very little about US politicians, so thanks, point taken.

      Cheers Ken.

  54. 152 Ken Kaplan 30 Aug 2012 at 11:52 am

    Don Juan, I agree. As a fictional character was a portrayal of an old soul.

  55. 153 goldeneternaltransit 30 Aug 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Dear Barry,
    I love your insight and your site…Great work! Cheers! …But I am not being able to get over one Idea…that all souls are put all of a sudden in human bodies as soon as humans develop on a planet…I still am getting inclined to an Idea that the creation would not waste time waiting for the plants and the animals to evolve to an extent where there all of a sudden a human brain that can (supposedly the only one, or dolphins etc) make choices…..Looking into the social structure’s of various upper level Animals I somehow feel that the souls exist even in animal kingdom and even they evolve depending on there genetic make up by making choices driven by instincts and their level of evolution (even animals think at there own evolutionary level and slowly deepen there thought process to ultimately get into a human body) …..and eventually end up in the most complicated and resourceful of the genetic patter with the highest level of thinking…..that is the humans who then further evolve….Some how I am not being able to get accustomed to the Idea of animals belonging to some hive consciousness separate from the human consciousness… Plz help…

    • 154 barry 30 Aug 2012 at 7:28 pm

      Souls do indeed exist and evolve in animals. It’s just that there is a vast sliding scale of evolutionary capabilities in both souls and organisms.

      The simplest “soul” is little more than pure life force with no self to speak of – no specific identity – as it has not evolved in consciousness. The life force gradually develops in consciousness, first through the most simple life forms and eventually through the most complex. An amoeba is a very simple organism, suitable for a very simple level of soul evolution, while an octopus is extremely complex in comparison, and a human even more so. An amoeba cannot serve as a vehicle for a complex consciousness exploring such choices as… say… whether or not to re-marry an ex-criminal. Even elephants and gorillas, intelligent and socially sensitive as they are, are relatively limited in self-awareness and their ability to consider what is in their own (or others’) best interests.

      (There is a tendency for some people to see animals like elephants and gorillas as “better” than humans precisely because of their natural simplicity and lack of ego. Strange as it my seem, our worst human qualities such as jealousy and hatred and warfare are signs of a more complex level of evolution.)

      Eventually, the point is reached at which physical embodiment is no longer of evolutionary value. The individuated soul consciousness out-grows its physical nursery.

      At no point is there ever any “separation” between human and non-human souls or between levels of consciousness, except for the apparent separation we experience in physical embodiment. Between lives, our oneness with all of life/consciousness at every level is completely self-evident.

      As an analogy – the life force at Source is like the ocean, some of which evaporates to become clouds (“hive” consciousness), and some of that rises further to become crystallised into myriad individual unique snow-flakes (individuated consciousness). But all is the same substance, originating from the same body of water, and all is part of one grand cycle.

      The creative Source does not have to “wait” for plants and animals to evolve, any more than the ocean has to wait for snow to fall. Time is not a factor – paradoxically, creation is always evolving yet always complete right now.

  56. 155 Ken Kaplan 30 Aug 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Here is where I’m not clear and I teach this stuff. I studied under a very high Eastern Guru, comparable to Neem Karoli Baba, and that philosophy is consciousness evolves and the human form in physical is kind of a pinnacle. So we’ve all been “up the ladder”. Michael Newton, in Journey of Sou’s insists, a la the Aquarian Gospel of Christ, that souls come out on planes, humans as humans, animals as animals, etc. Yet hypnotherapy regressions in the East find memories of animal lives.

    In Robert Schwartz’s “Your Soul’s Gift”, the channeled material is more to the latter. Humans and animals develop soul journeys on separate tracks. They said animals do not particularly like human incarnation because of the intensity of emotion and extreme of polarity. Therefore crossover is minimal.

    MY own gut says a couple of things because I really don’t know the answer. One, once you are human, however you got here, i think you are on the human track (in general). Big flip flopping a lot is possible but doers not seem consistent with emerging intuitive studies. Second, animals definitely have souls and soul development. My understanding is at less developed species there is “group soul”, like bees and ants. Third, all are equal, since all are consciousness itself. The Native people’s understood this better than we do.

    Last, there is no “waste of time” or “lack of patience”. “God” is eternity itself. A billion years is a millisecond. All moves according to plan.

    I think for us here, the issue is, what level am I, what is my contract or intention (lessons and experiences I desire for growth-or just to experience) in this expansion, how can I maximize this life experience in the context of my soul journey.

    Hope this helps.

  57. 156 goldeneternaltransit 03 Sep 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Going by your statment “Eventually, the point is reached at which physical embodiment is no longer of evolutionary value. The individuated soul consciousness out-grows its physical nursery.”

    Will it be okay for me to deduce…that most simple souls (perhaps newly detached from TAO) start of from a body like a virus or cocervate and gradually evolves through more complex organisms…growing simultaneously in levels of consciousness eventually reaching the human form as the point is reached at which physical embodiment is no longer of evolutionary value…but spiritual in nature and stays in human form from there on….? And there still might be other souls who “at a particular time might have evolved enough on some other planet or life system that got destroyed, or may be as a rare desire of change of a planet” for them to be eligible to get into a human body directly on earth?

    • 157 barry 03 Sep 2012 at 9:41 pm

      I’m not sure if I’m answering your question here, but I would say yes, there is presumably a path from simple life forms to complex life forms… But I would also guess it is not the only path. It might be that most of the life force taking physical form is happy to animate the simpler forms without ever seeking to “graduate” (say from plant to animal). As far as I am aware there is no “onus” on essence to evolve out of lower forms/levels to higher forms/levels. I could be wrong, but I would imagine that it is probably just as perfectly fulfilling for essence to take the form of bacteria, or to remain formless, as it is to reincarnate as human beings.

      Although humans (and probably many other species throughout the universe) represent the leading edge of evolution through reincarnation – Earth is said to be a particularly tough finishing school – I suspect that such evolution is far from the only path that is being explored and enjoyed by the essence of all that is. It is often said that the beings we call angels are not on any path that involves reincarnation. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that, say, 99% of all spiritual beings don’t ever take physical form at all.

      PS – I’m not sure what you mean by “stays in human form from there on…” There are further non-physical stages of evolution beyond physical reincarnation, and human form does not really come into it.

      • 158 Ken Kaplan 03 Sep 2012 at 11:29 pm

        Well put.

  58. 159 Ken Kaplan 03 Sep 2012 at 6:22 pm

    You didn’t read my reply. There is no consensus on this. What you describe is very common in Eastern religions, especially Hinduism. There consciousness or “soul” starts in primitive form and “moves up the ladder”. I was told by a psychic once my first conscious incarnation was 65 million years ago as a plant on another planet. Maybe so. AS I said, others like Newton and Schwartz insist that however you come in, you come in on the “strata” you began. Animals are animals, plants are plants, humans are humans. Schwartz suggest some minimal crossover where in Hinduism you can bounce all over the place, going from human form to animal or plant and back again quite often, depending on your proclivities and “last thought”. Ram Das related a story of Neem Karoli Baba strangely eating a big meal out of nowhere which he said later helped a disciple stay in human form in his next incarnation.

    My own sense says what you described is probably more true. My only concern is, like the Judeo-Christian tradition, it puts humans at the top and implies animals and other forms as inferior in some way. The elegance of animal soul journey in Schwartz is quite pronounced. WE truly don’t know.

    I think you are correct that there are souls who are primarily from other systems who have not spent a lot of time here. Newton suggests many have never taken physical incarnation before this one. This can create what is called “foreigner syndrome”, a deep sense of displacement and unease at being here.

    In the end, as I suggested, however we got here, the pint now is what do we do with it? I suggest reading Journey and Destiny of Souls (two books) and the works of Robert Schwartz to tune in more to the contract-intention and agreements you made before you were born. Becoming more aware of what you desired to balance, experience, learn helps a great deal with soul alignment in the present moment.

  59. 160 goldeneternaltransit 04 Sep 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Tx Ken for your inputs.

    @ Barry: by “stays in human form from there on…” I was being specific to the reincarnations in physical realm only…I mean if a soul decides to take upon the journey of physical rebirths it would pass through all the or atleast a good mix of physical organisms on the planet (there Could be an exact progression sequence that we are not aware of perhaps depending on genetic complexity or lets say brain body mass…. vertebrates or non vertebrates, mammals or non mammals etc… to reach a consciousness level expanded enough to start to integrate with human brains which takes the expansion of consciousness to a different level and there is no looking back, and it gets on to the 35 stages and stays in human body till its out of the reincarnation cycle…..By the way contrary to common beliefs core Hinduism doent not support the Idea of a human getting born back as an animal at least never as a common practice… …it talks about the yoni system (all the organisms on the planet aprx 64 Lakh types of species , not sure how accurate that figure is) and that its the same soul that evolve through the younis and eventually gains a human body. I know there are things that indicate otherwise but its all open for debate….

    I understand that for the essence its absolutely equally enjoyable to be a human being or a blade of grass….but I doubt if the soul element that is nothing but a fragment of essence with an ego awareness of being different from the essence and having a perceived individuality would take both the experiences as equal. Because if that was the case then the soul fragment would have already realized itself…

    • 161 barry 04 Sep 2012 at 3:08 pm

      Or to quote from Emmanuel’s Book:

      “As awareness expands, it connot contract.
      It can be distorted, but it connot contract
      Once one has known a human consciousness
      there would be little use
      in being a blade of grass again,
      for the karmic structure of the human being
      is far more complex and aware.”

      • 162 goldeneternaltransit 04 Sep 2012 at 3:32 pm

        Amen!

  60. 163 jose garcia 06 Sep 2012 at 4:29 am

    Sorry i ask this q? But I have to know. Is. There some sortof equation i can do by myself. To determine at which step. And level I’m in?i would be very greatful if you did have an equation for. Me to equate. Thanks for your time and wisdom barry

    • 164 barry 06 Sep 2012 at 10:28 am

      I really wish it were that simple, Jose, but as far as I am aware there is no such equation. I am working on a self-test, however, so watch this space.
      B

  61. 165 Ken Kaplan 06 Sep 2012 at 12:19 pm

    From the basic chart of the 35 steps (7 at each level) you can get an intuitive feel as to where you foundationally are. My suspicion is if you have been attracted to this site, you are probably a mature soul. Read the descriptions and the levels and you’ll get a sense of what’s what for you.

    For a more in depth understanding of your contract-intention issues for this life, Robert Schwartz in Your Soul’s Gift suggests looking very closely at your early life, family of origin circumstances, and major early influences (cultural, religious,etc). These give important clues as they are conduits for the karrmic life lessons and experiences we chose to work on and experience for growth in the present incarnation.

  62. 166 pqrs 14 Sep 2012 at 8:43 am

    Hi Barry,

    Thanks for this nice site. Just had to share one thing … according to my understanding, soul evolution is about **knowing** your psyche and **choosing** compassion …

    Osho had insights (the knowing part) but not the compassion … Also, he was terribly group-bound.

    I see his entire life as one big performance put out to feel important, unique. He became big only by challenging everything there was, bringing down what was.
    He did not/could not praise the inherent good in a lot of things… which I am surprised he very cleverly missed …

    I see Osho as someone who liked to be **envied** (that is how he could prove his uniqueness to himself).

    I will say Osho’s soul in his life as Osho was fighting a previous incarnation of extreme materialism and body-centricness. For all outward appearances, Osho had gained the **role** of a saint, but not the **soul** of one.

    All souls will fall under some category or the other. But we don’t have to feel compelled to confer greatness on them for that or just because they are extolled publicly.

    Many heroic and loving acts are committed every moment by the unnamed, unknown **masses**.

    • 167 Ken Kaplan 16 Sep 2012 at 9:51 pm

      Very insightful.

  63. 168 Elizabeth Thankful 15 Sep 2012 at 2:23 am

    Shouldn’t the Dalai Lama be in the 7th step of Old Souls? He is the most sagacious man I have ever known. And what about Maya Angalou? She was an old soul even as a child. I was told that, too, growing up, and a famous psychic told my mom that I was 16 going on 60, because I was so far beyond my years. I never put it into karmic perspective, though, because I feel like I am still being greatly challenged, even though I truly love life. Hard to figure out where you are on this chart, especially if you are trying to place yourself…

    • 169 barry 15 Sep 2012 at 4:58 pm

      I don’t know the exact levels of Maya Angelou and the Dalai Lama, but yes definitely old souls. Meanwhile, I am working on a more detailed system by which we can identify our soul levels.

  64. 170 MJ 16 Sep 2012 at 3:38 pm

    I like this theory, but I struggle with it being human and earth centered. It seems probable to me there are billions of intelligent life forms and billions of planets and that we could incarnate into, and where do being in alternate dimensions fit into this model? If there weren’t enough people being born on earth I don’t think you’d have to wait to reincarnate, you could just go to another planet. I had also gotten the impression that between lives exists outside of time, so the linear time line wouldn’t really matter.

    • 171 barry 16 Sep 2012 at 3:46 pm

      But we ARE human and earth centered. This is the journey you and I and billions of others have signed up for. We are evolving through self-awareness and choice using the human organism as a vehicle for interaction. We could perhaps have gone with a different organism on a different planet, but this is the one we happen to have chosen for this journey. I think species-swapping is the exception, not the rule.

  65. 172 Ken Kaplan 16 Sep 2012 at 9:12 pm

    I think Barry is right on here. First off, parallel realities and other dimensions CONCURRENT with this are a little outside the bounds of this discussion. My experience both in meditation, in higher order frequency contact, (Angels guides, etc) and in reading is that the Universe is not a”hodge podge”. Earth as a place for a very specific contextual type of learning and experience is like enrolling in college. You don’t take a class at Cal, then go for another to UCLA, then run to a community college for a third, all in different specialties. Earth has some very precise aspects for growth and expansion in the human experience. (or animal, or plant)

    In “Destiny of Souls” Michael Newton does talk about inter-dimensional travelers who come here, but it is not the norm. Also, he indicates there are “vacation planets” in the physical, but the primary evolutionary focus is here.

    From what I understand Earth is a fairly unique place, not solitary, but unique, especially with its diversity. Also in how tough a place it is.

    So the evolutionary line for those of us here runs pretty much here until we “graduate.

    It is said you can gain more in one lifetime here, then in thousands of “tears” in the non physical.”

    My experience with angels and other non physical dimensional beings is they are quite in awe of humans and the courage it takes to do this. They use the term “phenomenal survivors”.

    • 173 Ken Kaplan 16 Sep 2012 at 9:14 pm

      ‘years”, not “tears”

    • 174 barry 16 Sep 2012 at 9:18 pm

      Tears makes sense as well!
      Cheers Ken

  66. 175 Jaisukh Javia 19 Sep 2012 at 5:24 pm

    These stages are body ages where from we need to judge where the self is being reflected trough the type of tasks and in the levels of energy waht an individuals putforth the hidden levels. Still then some where research does required for the more dimentional explanation in this regard.

  67. 176 Nicole 21 Sep 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Uh-oh Barry, I see you’re fast-approaching the dreaded 6th-level mature (haha). I really wish tone could be sent over the internet…anyways, I was actually wondering if the 6th-level mature stage is generally the one most fraught with psychological/emotional disorders?

    • 177 barry 22 Sep 2012 at 10:07 am

      Hi Nicole

      Well, the whole mature stage is fraught with inner turmoil as we move from “me-first”, “you’re-on-your-own” individualism to “we’re all in this together” (to borrow from Bill Clinton). There is less outer conflict with other individuals as we find ways to get along as equal beings with equally valid emotions, but the compulsion to figure out how to get along with anything and everyone causes us to wrestle on a daily basis with our own conflicting emotions. “I love you, but I hate that thing you do, but that’s only because I secretly do the same thing, and that’s because I hate something about myself, so maybe I love you only because I don’t love myself, but if I loved myself would I lose you…???” So being a mature soul can get pretty crazy-making, at least if you’re not connected with like minded souls.

      In any stage the 6th level is said to be the one in which we mop up any karma we’ve created earlier in the stage. You’ve killed, raped, abused? Now you get to experience being killed, raped and abused (yippee!). However, mature souls don’t generally create such intense karma as younger souls, so the karmic harvest is likewise less intense.

      Karmic experiences tend to be dealt with early in life. One of my best friends is a 6th level mature king (identified as such by two separate sources). His early life was pretty rotten – a psychotic mother, no father. If karma was involved, then perhaps he was receiving some of the mind-fuck karma and neglect karma he had put out earlier as a mature soul.

      So, that said, I’m pretty nervous at the thought of what I’ve got to look forward to in a future life. To be honest, this life with goal of growth has been tough enough thank you very much and right now I fancy a life of R&R next – something like Hugh Hefner’s – before hitting the 6th level.

      (PS – by tone you mean love??)

  68. 178 Nicole 22 Sep 2012 at 9:51 pm

    Yep you got it, and thanks for the reply :)

  69. 179 Ken Kaplan 23 Sep 2012 at 7:06 am

    I think this is being over thought and too much mind is involved in this nuance here. My intuition and work with people yields a few observations. Most of us here came in to move up several octaves in our spiritual evolution. That was the prime directive. As per Journey of Souls, “difficult lives are accelerated lives”. If we brought in a lot of stuff to deal with, most likely we were agreeing to clear a boatload of karma, NOW. I don’t see the fear of similar distress in a future life, although if there are some outstanding threads (lack of forgiveness, too much judgment) they might have to be worked on still but not in as severe a fashion. I once had a very fine channel say to me I would not again have to experience the depth of pain I took on in this life. The learning we accrue from this is for a reason.

    I agree with Barry with some of the difficulties associated with being a mature soul, but I am also seeing much greater access to Source support, letting go of a lot of baggage, and entering into possibilities of very authentic illumination and service.

    I think its important to remember all are blessed, and to remember one’s essence and true nature is one of the greatest blessings in the Cosmos.

    Beyond that trying to figure out too much about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin feels counter productive.

  70. 180 Andre 15 Oct 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Dear Barry, just like you, even I am trying to put the pieces of this mammoth , unfathomable creation in place…..Must say that I dont agree to everything that you say, but what you say has really helped me to put things in place to a greater extent, as per my perception, and a big thanks for that…You have been a big inspiration! I

    I will put forth of what I could gather of it all:

    1) THE TAO, THE GOD, THE ESSENCE, Known in Hindu Philosophy as BRAHM has 2 aspects…either self contracting or self manifesting….. in simple words, infinitely expanding or infinitesimally contracting…in cycles…

    2) When ever the infinitesimally contracting Brham, “DESIRES”, that “let me be”…..”it becomes”….And it begins to expand and manifest itself, from itself… …..into 2 components…i.e. matter and energy….

    3) Matter constitutes the physical dimensions of the universes or all that is materialistic…..and energy, takes over as the driving force to keep these fragments of matter mobilized, but still bound by some
    “universal laws” devised by the epitome of intelligence “the essence”….as it is essential for the creation to have stability….people call it the laws of gravity, or newtons laws of motions, or the Kepler laws of planetary motion, or Eisenstein theory of relativity….the golden ratio etc…there is no end to the aspects of divine intelligence!

    4) As a special case Essence would give Some “energy bundles” a special flavor of EGO (Through Maya (A Sanskrit word for the universal delusional force) that makes them have a perceived (though delusional) individuality, different from essence to perceive and experience the materialistic world created around, as if they were different from essence.

    5) Its a game by essence to ENJOY its own varied manifestations by getting itself transformed into egoistic bundles of energy and see how the show goes on when they are put together against each other…..why it is so is beyond the comprehension of human brain.

    LIFE = EGOISTIC ENERGY ENTRAPPED INTO MATTER

    3 Things I could never agree to:

    1) Human souls jump directly into human bodies rather than evolving through the various other kingdoms like viruses, plants animals etc:

    1.1) I perceive that all living beings are “egoistic” energy provoking “individuality” contained in matter bundles; be it plants, animals and humans have consciousness, individuality, a sense of ego, expressed to various degrees….as per their evolved consciousnesses. The matter tends to evolve and get more and more complex as the egoistic energy (soul) keeps getting born over and over again evolving the v bit every-time till it develops a mass of matter to be able to contain and harness its evolutionary development as complex as the human body with HUMAN BRAINS and the metaphysical MIND.

    1.2) The difference between humans and animals is not that humans can make conscious choices and animals cant…..even animals have ego, individuality and can make conscious choices as per their level of evolution, driven by their individualistic instinctive consciousness just like most humans do in most situations. Also, If animals have a hive conscious then human race does have one as well perhaps being felt by the astronauts who look at earth from outer space. And there it ends!

    1.3) The difference between animals and humans is that though both animals and humans feel “I am”, only humans have the capacity to contemplate “who I am”, or “why I am”? I.e. The first step towards realizing self!

    1.4) Transmigration of souls from a more evolved human body and mind to a less evolved animal body and mind is not a norm! Evolution is always progressive. However under exceptional situations it can happen if a human soul really wants to serve some specific purpose……Many metamorphic Examples are given in Hindu Puranas about lord incarnating in some animal form as that would be the only way to destroy a daemon. An analogy would be for the people who play chess….when a pawn gets promoted to 8th rank it has a choice to get converted to any of the non pawn pieces if it wants to. However 99% of the times they would be converted to a Queen as that’s the
    max….but then if I wanted to be a little cocky with my opponent I might just decide upon being a knight ;)

    2) Soul decides it “all” beforehand!

    2.1) I am somehow not comfortable with the Idea that nothing can happen to a soul without its wish! It kills the entire purpose of this delusional creation for the essence. It would be like entering a video game pre-deciding that at 10 steps there will be a gun, at 20 steps there will be a tank, at 30 steps there will be a creeper……would you enjoy playing such a predictable video game?

    2.2) The soul has control over when to take birth, what kind of parents, possible genetic outcomes, major events like marriage, accidents death….to an extent but not absolutely! The soul has control over its own birth and circumstances but no control over the natural laws and dynamics of the physical world! Once it dives into the physical world as per its preference it has to deal with natural laws in motion on a random basis. The natural laws at the time may or may not be conducive to what the soul desires to achieve! If it does great! we call it a great destiny! If not, bad luck, better try next time! Some times you might end up getting killed by some 3rd party robbers who were not at all a part of your initial plan in the spiritual world. But then that’s how the dynamics of physical world are….It would still count as an experience, perhaps an unexpected experience!

    3) LAW OF KARMA is all about individual entanglement:

    3.1) I just cant get around the fact that the law of Karma is just a law
    of entanglement between two individuals where in A and B decide that you murder me in this life and in next life or whenever, I ll murder you , so evens Stevens. That is not an impossibility but that is definitely not the totality!

    3.2) If I get killed by you as a random act even though we hadn’t planned it just counts as an uninvited experience of getting killed. Now if I desire to experience revenge earnestly I might plan my next birth to make sure that I am born somewhere around and get ample opportunity to kill you in return and I will be satisfied. If I am the forgiving kind then I might just feel that you are still under evolved and that’s why u killed me….never mind you will learn with life…I have more important lessons to work on than to avenge my killing by you. However does that free him from the act of killing just because I forgave? I would say a blunt Noooooo! He still needs to learn how it is when someone kills you and what consequences it would have on your loved ones….and the Karmik balance sheet comes into picture….even if I don’t avenge my killing the karmic law will react perhaps by getting him killed by someone else as per the scenario……….

    3.3) As you mentioned KARMIC LAWS are NOT THE LAWS OF JUSTICE OR PUNISHMENT, but who said that anyway? I believe law of karma is simply the LAWS OF ACTION AND REACTION. Some might term the reaction as a justice or punishment but its simply a reaction. Just like it doesn’t matter if you throw a stone in a puddle pool or liquid chocolate pool, it will get splashed back at you. The laws of Karma is not bothered if its the chocolate or the puddle all it is bothered is about the action and reaction….it works on the simple logic! now its only you to decide the puddle or Chocolate or for that matter if you enjoy puddle more than chocolate.

    …you act and nature reacts…… that’s it…good or bad is your take or your perception, not of the law of karma!

    Thats where my perceptions are dwelling these days….I am sure there is more to assimilate….in time…

    • 181 barry 15 Oct 2012 at 4:16 pm

      Thanks Andre
      I literally just had surgery 3 hrs ago so can’t quite take this in at the moment, but will look again in a few days
      B

    • 182 Ken Kaplan 16 Oct 2012 at 6:42 pm

      Andre,

      You’ve thrown a lot on the table. It seems clear you ascribe to a more Eastern Hindu evolution of the soul than a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals animals, etc. As has been discussed here, I don’t think we have the answer (i don’t). I was “raised” in the Yogic tradition by a Sat Guru for 20 years and the model is the one you feel comfortable with. But you might want to read the section on animals in Robert Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channeled information contradicts this view.

      I do want to address your take on Soul Contracts. First I think you might reconsider the use of the word “random”. As Abraham said flatly, “there is no random. “My Guru said the word “accident” should be stricken from the dictionary.

      I think you are on the right track that nothing is written in stone. But everything is the result of causation. My understanding is that rather than the word “contract’, we could substitute “intention”. Intention imo manifests as fluctuating probability lines. Some lines (and lives) are so strong that they are virtually impossible to change. One example is the man who desired to be a quadriplegic for certain growth purposes in his life in Schwartz’s Your Sou’s Plan. Other lives, such as one cited by Joel Witton in Life Between Life, are left completely open. Schwartz cites a case of incest in which the mother agreed to protect the daughter but didn’t when the rubber hit the road. But this is NOT RANDOM. There are two forms of causation. One is the destiny part that is scripted before incarnation and the other is the RESULT OF CHOICE (thoughts, vibration, action) that occur here with free will. No one is at the “whim” of life. Creating your reality is absolute.

      I think you are on the right track around karma but expressing it a little haphazardly. Karma as I understand it ultimately is the law of balance manifested as action-reaction. Again, there is no random. A life of service can balance out what might be termed “negative karma”. The Universe, as you cited, is quite vast and varied and the human mind tries to pigeon hole things. I had a friend who found out that in the 1880′s she was a preacher who was vociferous for the extermination of the Indians. In this life she has been a strong advocate for minorities and multiculturalism. She has also had her share of heartbreak.

      I have a question. How much of your opinion is based on direct experience and how much just on reading? I would be interested. You have a lot of fine thoughts and questions, but some experience base is important in assessing some of this.

      I look forward to continuing the discussion and honing in on certain parts.

      • 183 Ken Kaplan 16 Oct 2012 at 6:48 pm

        P.S. I do think we have a good idea of why this was created. From all my investigations, the issue of SEPARATION and all its implications is paramount. As you ascribed, some of this is for the experience and enjoyment of individuality in the physical (the flight of the Eagle, the roar of the waterfall) but in human form the issue of forgetting and the playing out of extremes of emotion and the enormous extremes of duality (light and dark) appear to be the dominant motif. Yes, it is a grand experiment, but but purpose and plan. Otherwise Soul planning would not be so preeminent, both in humans and in many other species.

  71. 184 goldeneternaltransitAndre 18 Oct 2012 at 4:39 pm

    Dear Ken,
    Thanks for the response and I must tell you that as Barry is recovering from an operation even I am recovering from chronic sciatica that makes it impossible for me to sit and type for more than a couple of minutes on my desktop. But then I don’t prefer typing replies over a laptop, tab, or mobile…lol…So I ll be as brief as possible…

    @…. It seems clear you ascribe to a more Eastern Hindu evolution of the soul than a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals animals, etc. As has been discussed here, I don’t think we have the answer (i don’t).

    ….Well that would really be an assumption on your part as I have been open to all religious or metaphysical or theosophical views since my childhood! And I am not really against the Michael newton view about 35 steps to soul evolution for that matter….basically it makes sense….and I feel that the Hindu view on the over all picture about reincarnation makes sense….and I am for anything that makes sense! If you don’t have an answer to something its still better to work on something that might try and answer it….need not be correct always but still better than not having a lead at all!

    @ I do want to address your take on Soul Contracts….

    Plz read again……Well I never said soul contracts! It’s the essence who expands and contracts in cycles…and souls exist only in the expanding phase of essence….

    @………… a Michal Newton version that humans are humans, animals, etc…………..But you might want to read the section on animals in Robert Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channelled information contradicts this view……………….. Again, there is no random.

    My only question……why humans are humans and animals are animals if humans haven’t done anything special? Why this discrimination? If I had been an animal instead of Human I would ask that to the essence , why me Mr? Some would say that it was a random assignment….but then as you said there is nothing random! So why is it that some souls being given animal bodies and some Humans (obviously at more advantage). The Hindu View of evolution of Humans through Animals make more sense for me…it puts everything in place….logically!

    @ I have a question. How much of your opinion is based on direct experience and how much just on reading? I would be interested. You have a lot of fine thoughts and questions, but some experience base is important in assessing some of this.

    Let none of my option being based on direct experience……and its definitely on reading……but its all on Logic, common sense and fact of the matter….For an example…out of my reading and experience through life I would know intuitively as a common sense logic that I if I jump from a 100 floored building I will die…Now will you ask me that did you really jump from a 100 story building to practically experience if you really dies? Isn’t it common sense?

  72. 185 goldeneternaltransit 19 Oct 2012 at 4:52 am

    PS: Perhaps common sense is not the right word here but a better word would be “intuitively”…..I believe that your intuitions are formed by your direct (this life or any of the lives) or indirect (by observing direct experiences of others) at time consciously and many at time subconsciously. So I would not always want to validate by experiences every life what appeals to me intuitively, as if it does I would have experienced it somewhere in time already. I would want to validate by experience only the things which mu brain would find illogical or my mind will find intuitively unacceptable. Intuition is still a stronger force than reasoning as it comes through experiences, and I might still agree upon something even if it is illogical on face as long as its intuitively acceptable!

    As an example, I find 35 steps of reincarnation both logical as well as intuitively acceptable, the reason could be that my soul (or rather I) have always been going through these stages piratically! At the same time I dont find the notion “humans are humans, animals are animals” logical or intuitively acceptable perhaps indicating that I might have experienced being animal sometime during my evolution. And we should also not forget the fact that what we call Michael teachings are actually a compilation of channeling data through numerous human sources over a period of time and so is as open to misinterpretation as any other set of concepts are. So As of now I would assume the notion as a work of human misinterpretation as it intuitively seems to be erroneous. Perhaps I will have a retake on in sometime in the future If I “directly” get to interact with the Michael Group of souls (may be through Chaneling) and get to discuss the same.

    Also, the soul contracts are not something discrete but a metamorphic concept. There is no reason for me to believe that the supposed “soul contract” is by default infallible. Just like rules can be broken contracts can get breached. While signing the contract the soul might not be aware of what its going to be trying to serve the contract in the real dynamics of physical world, at times due to inexperience. Thats when things can go really out of control, out of plan and out of contract, tipsy turby, and the soul might not be able to execute the contract properly, might wish for tweaking, or might just fail completely and end up breaching it. As a strong example I can never agree to Suicide being a part of souls life plan or contract. It is always when the soul is badly messed up on its attempt to execute its life plan under the turbulent dynamics of the physical plne, it calls it a quit in order to take a breather, regroup and then try all over again…..As a reference..in the book “journey of soul” the case study about the person who just committed suicide, it is mentioned that the moment the soul is out of the body it is resentful that it crumbled under pressure and ended up committing suicide and is even hesitant in meeting his soul guide for the failure. Now if suicide were to be a part of souls plan or was intentional why would it repent?

    • 186 Ken Kaplan 19 Oct 2012 at 11:25 am

      A theme seems to be emerging here of discomfort with the idea that “soul contracts” are somehow “set in stone”. This reference has been repeated now several times.I really recommend reading Schwartz’s books as they compliment Newton, who deals with the larger picture, very well. I agree that the “Contract” which is really more of an intention along with “agreements” with others is extremely varied, fluid and apparently open to free will *(which could be a whole entire discussion in itself.)

      From my reading and experience, “Contracts” run the gamut from highly scripted to potentially open ended and yes there are many opportunities of choice and action to change, back off, out perform, move in different directions from original intention.Life seems especially fluid in the whole adapting to the movement of the parts.

      I would be careful, however, in ascribing absolutes to any situation. Suicide is one such example. Although it appears to me also that many if not most suicides are “incompletes”, my intuition says strongly some suicides are contracted for the purpose of generating growth of those around them. Or even for the purpose of the entity itself. I think we have to be careful in saying “x is in all cases this.”

      Similarly I honor your intuition that “moving up the chain” feels. more apt than “humans are humans, animals are animals”. Yet there is a strong chapter in Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Gift in which channeled information suggests that (the latter) and that crossover is minimal because animals do not particularly like the extremes of the human experience. Therefore I file this under “interesting” but I truly do not know. My own intuition pulls me also in the direction that as we are life itself, we most likely have experienced it in multiple forms. But again I just don’t know.The Universe is so vast is it possible that both in some way are true? Because I have not had enough direct experience I have to say “I don’t know” On another level, its irrelevant. As a Buddhist friend once said, however we got here, what are we going to do now?

      The value of the reality of contracts to me is that it erases the victim-perpetrator model and gives me (and others) the potential to align more deeply with whatever original intention I brought here. The clearer I get about that, the more congruent I get about being in tune with my purpose. For example, I know that judgment and forgiveness, as well as reclaiming power in a healthy manner (this one seems pretty universal) are pretty big for me. Knowing that helps me in not validating separation issues, such as judgment. As I get more intuitively clear on finer aspects, such as perhaps a challenge of finding the limitations of the intellect and will as opposed to moving more from the heart, opportunity for growth and expansion according to most likely my core intentions derived before birth become clearer. How I work it out seems to be my free will choice.

      I would recommend people reading as much as they can about this as it is fairly cutting edge and not that much material has emerged yet (as opposed to manifestation, for example.) Schwartz is invaluable in giving tremendous information at how fine tuned contracts can be. Yet he seems to be dealing with fairly evolved people. Newton mentioned that in his experience 75% of contracts were created by guides who then sought assent, much like a travel agent planning an itinerary. If one wants to form an opinion on a subject, one should at least be relatively versed in the subject. Otherwise, we can spin our wheels out of emotional reactivity.

      • 187 goldeneternaltransit 19 Oct 2012 at 2:01 pm

        Well i do agree with the notion that if you dont know something, you simply dont know, and it doesnt really imply that it does not or can not exist. But then human minds still do have the liberty to speculate, hypothesize and draw upon and dwell upon conclusions, as “truths”, as per their thought processes; and believe in its truthfulness untill proven othervise. In the end no one is really right or wrong but are just monkeys of their own perceptions that have only relative existances. Personally i would always be cautious about any chanelled information as it is open to contamination by human interpritations or misrepresations just like most “divine revelations”. I prefer the route of sensing, knowing and realizing. Anyway I will make it a point to give Schwartz a reading to try and understand his point of view now that I am crippled for atleast 2 weeks lol. Sometimes I wonder if we all can sign up a “contract” to meet up there one we are dead and get to go through the motions in actuality and we will be in a better position to evaluate our perceived notions abot life beyond. :)

  73. 188 Ken Kaplan 19 Oct 2012 at 4:55 pm

    I agree with you that external sources of any kind can have problems. For example, it is my understanding that hypnotic regression like Newton’s revealed in the East animal lives whereas in Newton no evidence of this arose.

    One of the vectors I use in validating Soul Contracts is my own direct experience because I am a medium. Therefore I am not relying soley on second hand information. And although I agree that channeled information can be “contaminated”, one still must bring those qualities you mentioned, especially discernment as to the quality of the source. I also look for consistency where various sources reinforce one another. This adds to credibility. Thus Joel Whitton’s Life Between Life using similar techniques as Newton supports the arc and spirit of Journey of Souls where Saved by the Light does not.

    My first experience around Soul Contracts happened years ago (nearly 20) when I had no idea such a thing possibly existed. I was walking in a center city park with as friend who was distraught that a young female friend of his (in her 20′s) had been murdered while working in a retail shop.. He was beside himself with grief. We walked a while, I really knew nothing I could say, when a cone of white light literally descended upon me that was extremely visceral to feel and I found a voice coming out of as I merged with the intelligence of the light that said, “Her death was planned by her as a sacrifice before she was born to raise the consciousness and deepen the hearts of those around her as to the preciousness of life”. To say we were both blown away is an understatement but a wave of peace emanated from me that he felt and it completely cooled him down.

    Since then I have done many readings with people where deceased relatives, often ones abusive in life, have come through to counsel and explain their roles, that they were asked for or agreed upon, and to clarify why these decisions were made. I had a particularly powerful experience where a very gifted channel brought through my father’s higher self **while he was still living** explaining to me why he had to be the “bad guy” in this life and to help me widen my understanding of my life and our relationship. He actually said that his earthly personality at the time would not agree with or have any clue as to what he was telling me. And he emphasized strongly the form of our relationship had been agreed upon.

    I’m getting better at reading the outlines of or recognizing Contracts, although one oi the best channels I know, an Angel named Michal, who represents “Unity Consciousness” emphasized in a talk that the word “intention” was better than “contract”. Contract seems to stimulate, as it has here, a sense of something fixed or inviolable and he wanted to move us away from that to a much more sense of the fluidity of the process. O(Ne may draw up a plan to visit Europe and have what one believes is a fixed itinerary but once we get there events may change how long and why we stay in one place or even visit areas not designed originally. I think we are at the beginning of exploring this so I believe in years to come there will be much filling in of gaps and expansion of our understanding of how it works.

    As to the question of incarnation origins, I was with a Guru for twenty years who was completely in the “up the chain” ball park. This is very core to Eastern philosophy. Newton and Schwartz propose something different. Since I have not had direct experience as to the truth of the matter, I don’t take a hard position either way. I do feel intuitively, as you sense that intuition is fruitful;, that once you are human, there is not a lot of huge movement back and forth into other forms. To me this seems to “mess up” the whole idea of soul evolution. Yet I have heard Gurus speak of just such wild shifts.

    So to me the issue is what am I here for now.? What is directly in front of me that I believe I ordained for myself to work on? The entire thesis of this part of this web site is devoted entirely to the human process of soul evolution, however we entered it at the beginning. I do believe animals have souls and have their part of the journey also. I’m not clear as to when a more conscious Individuation for animals (or trees. plants, whatever) would take place. My instinct tells me that ants for example, might deal more with a group soul as opposed to a Lion or dog or cat. But I don’t know.

    And to be honest, I’m not losing sleep over it because the relevance for my journey is not there in the same manner that contract-intentions are. If that knowledge is important, I believe it will be given for me when and if I need it.

    Thanks for your input, thoughts and perspectives. I’m sure as Barry recovers he will weigh in.

    • 189 Ken Kaplan 19 Oct 2012 at 5:01 pm

      P.S. I believe you will find Schwartz very interesting. He is doing some cutting edge work. Both books
      Your Soul’s Plan’
      Your Soul’s Gift

      can be gotten together on Amazon for near $25 and the shipping will be free. Hope you have fun reading them.

  74. 190 Benny 23 Oct 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I haven’t read all the comments, so sorry if this has been answered,

    But where does active spiritual pursuit fit into this? If we choose to meditate, work on our issues, even leave home and join a monastery, does that not speed the process up? If it doesn’t then what’s the point in worrying about all that stuff?

    Why would we strive for total liberation if we cannot fulfill more than one step in a lifetime?

    • 191 barry 23 Oct 2012 at 5:51 pm

      Well, Benny, you’ve pretty much answered your own question. What’s the point of worrying about liberation? There isn’t any!

      While a bit of striving now and then might help us along, it’s going to happen eventually anyway.

      Unlike the human body/ego, the soul is not subject to any time limitation. Nor is it “required” to liberate itself within any Earthly time frame. There are no medals for becoming liberated sooner rather than later. The cosmos isn’t going to collapse if we all decide to evolve “slowly” rather than “quickly” (even if those terms had any meaning beyond the physical plane).

      It’s just that, as we grasp the whole idea of reincarnation, it is very tempting to assume that our task is to get to the end point ASAP. Indeed, many spiritual teachers teach exactly this. But this is just the human mind distorting its understanding with ideas based on human life (where, for example, finishing something soon is generally better than finishing it late). If there is an end point to reincarnation where we are liberated from human suffering, then obviously (we imagine) reaching that end point quickly is good and right, while failing to reach liberation today, or by this time next year, or any time in this lifetime, is obviously a sign that we are hopelessly stuck, and holding everybody back.

      From the soul’s timeless perspective between lives, this notion of “urgency” is clearly nonsense.

      Another bogus teaching is that we are “trapped” in physical reincarnations until we finally do everything right in one life. But consider what it means to evolve as a soul, an emerging spark of consciousness. In the early stages of reincarnation, souls are naturally drawn to the physical plane, to separation, and to the intense feelings that go with life, including violence and suffering. The more we experience these things during our Earth lives, the more we get a sense of ourselves as real, individual beings in the universe. This all peaks during our Young soul phase.

      Then, as Mature souls, we reach a turning point. Having “found” ourselves as definite individuals, we now want to find our place within the greater whole. We feel a draw towards meaningful integration with others, and the cosmos at large. We also feel a growing urge to end suffering, both for ourselves and for others. In human terms, this is the start of our spiritual pursuit. In some lives we might be drawn to pursue it actively, but certainly not in all.

      But as Old souls, rather than still feeling drawn to the physical plane we feel an increasing pull to the end point, simply because we can sense it – and also by then the novelty of the physical plane has worn off. “Liberation” now becomes a more attractive proposition than, say, being successful and popular.

      So there is a natural sequence in what any given consciousness can do, and wants to do.

      There wouldn’t be much point in, say, telling a Baby soul that he/she should go to Tibet and look for ultimate liberation. Well, the stress of dealing with foreigners might contribute something to his/her growth as a Baby soul, but that soul isn’t going to jump from 4th level Baby to 7th level Old by spending an entire life sitting on a cushion meditating. That soul won’t even want to do it. It would be WAY out of its comfort zone. A Baby soul will be much more drawn to experiences of traditional community-building, learning the external rules of polite society, living with law and order, following a religion. That’s what makes sense – literally – to a consciousness searching for itself at that stage.

      There is nothing wrong with seeking enlightenment or liberation in any life, by the way. For Mature and Old souls it is a great way to discover more of oneself and one’s place in the universe. In some lives it feel like just the right thing to do. But there is no urgent need to do so, and there is nothing “wrong” with not doing so.

      Barry

      • 192 Benny 23 Oct 2012 at 8:07 pm

        Hi Barry, thanks so much for taking the time to reply. In some senses, it is a relief to know that there is no urgency. As many say, there are no problems in life, why create them? And I think that goes for spiritual pursuit too. What is the urgency? I think knowing this allows us to sit back and enjoy the ride.

        In another sense though, perhaps from an egoic perspective I don’t know, it is a relief to think that complete liberation is at least possible in this life, to free oneself from the suffering. I’m not sure exactly where I’m at, but I think I’m emerging into the earlier steps of the mature soul group, To think that I may have another 14 lives here and hundreds more years in this harsh terrain, well, kinda depresses me. Since starting to wake up a couple of years ago, I feel much more of a pull to leave this place behind. I have never felt like I belong here, and have never been willing to compete in the world of ego games and selling oneself out in society. Knowing that we can meditate in an attempt to transcend the suffering is some relief.

        Another point is that, if we do meditate, then we bring more awareness to our lives, and with more awareness comes more experience, because we experience each experience with more awareness, if you see what I mean.

        I totally agree with you that, if we are not ready as souls, we will not even feel the pull to meditate or emigrate to Tibet, those things come when our soul is ready for these experiences. But when we feel a pull to leave this place behind, it’s nice to know there is a method that can fast track us, so to speak.

        Thank you so much for the article. I found it fascinating, and a lot of it resonated with me. It has changed my perspective on some things. Keep up the good work!
        Benny

        • 193 Ken Kaplan 23 Oct 2012 at 9:10 pm

          Benny,

          If you’re feeling a pull to leave here and looking at potential incarnations as wretched, that’s a clue as to the issues you came to work on. I’m glad the site is lightening things up by providing perspective. I’ve recommended it to many.

  75. 194 Ken Kaplan 23 Oct 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Great response. When I read Schwartz’s Your Soul’s Plan the guidance that came through was exactly that, the soul has no time table in the sense the ego or conscious mind would define it. However I would add one caveat. In Journey of Souls Newton speaks often of ACCELERATED LIVES. Lives that involve challenge and difficulty according to karmic patterns offer souls the opportunity to speed up their development rather than just going once again for the picket fence, etc.

    Apparently there are times when the soul decides or is even pushed by guides to tackle issues it might have been avoiding. In this sense then, the soul can choose and can be stimulated to accelerate.

    I resonate with this because not only for myself but for many others I see choices in this life that seem a result of ‘throw the kitchen sink at me so I can clean up a tremendous karmic pile at once” because the opportunity for movement now is so great. And thus I believe this stimulus comes from deep within, from the soul’s own desire to expand. But however “well’ or “not well” one does makes no difference because there is literally all the time in the world.

    So in the absolute I agree. There is no time table and there are no special stickers given out.

    • 195 barry 23 Oct 2012 at 8:58 pm

      Hi Ken

      I’m back on my feet today after the throat op, now wading through a backlog of comments!

      Totally agree with you and FYI in the Michael teachings each life has a particular goal or motivational direction, one of which is termed GROWTH or ACCELERATION. See http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/goal/growth/

      This is my current life’s goal and, yes, the kitchen sink is spot on — In the last ten years I’ve had over 40 operations…

      B

      • 196 Ken Kaplan 23 Oct 2012 at 9:13 pm

        I was at a channeling where inter galactic beings were in awe of humans as “phenomenal survivors”. There is enormous admiration on the upper realms for the courage to come here.

  76. 197 Rose 24 Oct 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Hi Berry,

    I enjoy going back and forth to your website a lot. It is very informative and interesting to say the least.

    According to the 35 steps we have to go through in order to evolve, it was mentioned that we could need up to 4 lifetimes to tackle one step. And I read some where else on your website that we could have lived thousands of lives before. So for argument’s sake if we say 4 lives per step times 35 steps that would make it 140 lives all together to get to the last “old” step. This is no where near 1000 lives at least..

    I know there’s no definite number of lives that we are required to live and no rush to hurry at all.. But, the little knowledge that I know about this topic i can’t figure out why we would need “thousands of lives”. It really sounds depressing..

    Would you elaborate on that point please?

    Warm regards,

    Rose

    • 198 Ken Kaplan 24 Oct 2012 at 1:16 pm

      Rose,

      Look at this from the Soul’s perspective. Think of Earth life as a combination of school and restaurant, learning and experience. From the Soul’s perspective the prospect of entering this school-restaurant is exciting, challenging, at times difficult, at times exhilarating filled with unusual, twist turning opportunities and chances to grow in ways that are rare in the Universe.

      Because the Soul is eternal and cannot die, it is like a giant drama or dream in which each life is temporal and ephemeral, yielding great riches.

      Now look back to when you started school in this life. Let’s assume each day in school corresponds to a life. If your schooling was good, interesting, challenging, often exciting, sometimes difficult, through basic college you would have spent 4560 days there or about 35000 hours (including homework) of your life. Again IF it was consistently good schooling with amazing experience opportunities, would you say the entire time or the thought of was depressing? Don’t reference our common schooling now, but imagine really terrific schools.

      I’m not sure the math here has to be completely on the money but the main idea is valuable. From the Soul’s point of view, incarnations are like all those days and hours spent learning, growing, experiencing in school. Except it is simultaneously an incredible variety of restaurants.

      We are now here focusing in one incarnation. The totality of our Soul may be operating in many dimensions. We so often bring the human point of view into this. Souls come here for all kinds of reasons that make no sense from the “I want the 21/2 kids, easy life, 80 years, no pain” vantage point. Michael Newton mentioned a Soul who was a Master healer in the Universe. She came to Earth to expand her (he, it) knowledge base around disease. She took 300 incarnations and NOT ONCE took a healthy body. Had no interest. Not in the curriculum.

      From a traditional point of view that’s crazy. From the Soul’s point of view, it was the most sensible thing in the world. Came to this place to learn and experience first hand. Had no desire to fool around. An unusual case, but instructive.

      Life may ultimately be a passing show, an illusion, but it is profound and has great depth. We are eternity itself and timeless in our essence. Wouldn’t it then make sense that hundreds or thousands of lives (as humans) in the physical, perhaps not all on this planet, might be an essential part of the cosmic class?

      • 199 Ken Kaplan 24 Oct 2012 at 1:22 pm

        P.S. And from the point of view of eternity, a blip on the radar. What’s a million years or even 100 million years? (If we come up through the ranks). That’s peanuts, even in the life of the earth. (Life is 5 BILLION years old here.)

    • 200 barry 24 Oct 2012 at 4:51 pm

      Hi Rose

      I’m always pretty clear that 100+ lives is the norm (for souls using the human organism) so I actually had to do a Google search to find any reference to “thousands of lifetimes” on my site. It appears just once as far as I can tell:

      “Other individual spheres of aware light, many of great depth of Understanding with the Memory of thousands of lifetimes, generously taught me lessons to bring back and place into the stream of time…”

      - quotation from The Sphere of Universal Communion – insights from William’s journey into light, a wonderful lucid account of the higher planes as seen from a near death experience. The experiencer, William, encountered some “great-souled” beings who had the wisdom of thousands of lifetimes. On that point, I don’t actually know if he is being literal or poetic, speaking from direct insight or making an assumption.

      He could in fact be describing what is known in the Michael teachings as a re-integrated entity. An “entity” (as defined in these teachings) is a collective consciousness that first fragments into 1,000 or so individual souls, all of whom then evolve through the learning experiences of reincarnation. It equates to what some call a “soul tribe”, or a “larger grouping” in Michael Newton’s work. We are all members of one entity or another, and we often live or work with some of our entity soul-mates in our human lives.

      When, after several thousands of years, each of the 1,000+ members of an entity have completed their physical journey, a new process begins: the soul-mates reunite and begin to form a greater whole. And as a whole, the integrated entity has the collective experience and wisdom of over 100,000 human lives.

      The Michael entity itself is one of these – a combined consciousness consisting of precisely 1,050 soul-mates (all Warriors and Kings) who have completed their reincarnation and are now forming an integrated whole, teaching from their combined wisdom.

  77. 201 Ken Kaplan 24 Oct 2012 at 8:03 pm

    Cool. I just spent a week with James Van Praagh at Omega training to be a medium. This question kind of came up in that a person asked” what if I want to meet my mother when I cross over and she’s reincarnated?” One renowned medium thought the Universe would be cruel to allow that. There was some back and forth and right there Van Praagh got a download in which that which physically incarnates is a sliver of the entirety.

    I have always maintained that human linear thought and language cannot express the expansion that goes on beyond the physical. Therefore your description seems apt. What we are is far larger, even in subtle individuation, than this notion here of “me”. Thus it is interesting that Abraham from Abraham-Hicks is such a collection, So is “Alexander” channeled by Ramon Stevens. A local channel here worked with “Isaiah and the guides” and another spirit channel works with inter-galactic beings who are also collective consciousness.

    Good information.

    • 202 barry 24 Oct 2012 at 8:36 pm

      I think I’ve read that it doesn’t matter if the “greeting” soul is incarnate at the time — only a portion is incarnate anyway, so there is always enough of a soul still on the astral side to greet a deceased relative.

  78. 203 Ken Kaplan 24 Oct 2012 at 8:56 pm

    That was the “downloasdd” info.

    • 204 Ken Kaplan 24 Oct 2012 at 8:57 pm

      downloaded

  79. 205 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 1:34 pm

    @ Ken/Barry Back, Ah kind of recovered sooner than I though I would to the extent that I can sit on a chair now for 10mins. Good to see Barry around again. Ken, Must say I was thrilled going through your personal experiences….Pretty interesting an insightful…Being a channel yourself is pretty up right up there…..
    I haven’t been through the Schwartz’s books yet though I was able to locate both the books in 100+ repositories I have on reincarnations, soul evolution, et al starting from ancient wisdom dating back to at least 5000years to the middle works and the contemporary works on it Michael and Schwartz’s to name a few. I haven’t been able to go through most of it yet but surely working on it.

    Just a few quick pointers: Point for point…as I cant type much at a stretch….

  80. 206 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 1:37 pm

    @ From my reading and experience, “Contracts” run the gamut from highly scripted to potentially open ended and yes there are many opportunities of choice and action to change, back off, out perform, move in different directions from original intention.

    Pretty much it ….may be it was a notion I inadvertently ended up projecting that soul contracts are written in stone. I pretty much agree to your above statement, that leave a bit more of berthing space for me (or for my soul so to say).

    @ I would be careful, however, in ascribing absolutes to any situation. Suicide is one such example. Although it appears to me also that many if not most suicides are “ in-completes”, my intuition says strongly some suicides are contracted for the purpose of generating growth of those around them.

    Again I would agree to that…..I ended up projecting a wrong notion that as an absolute a “suicide” Cant be part of a souls plan or intention. So if I may restate…..”almost all but some Suicides may not be a part of souls plan or intention”. Or even the other way….not all but some Suicides are part of souls plan or intention.

    • 207 Ken Kaplan 25 Oct 2012 at 9:04 pm

      Pretty much agreed on both counts. Our experience is so limited here right now and the Cosmos is so vast that I think we’re working with what little we know right now. But it seems to be the ball park. Newton had expressions of guides gettinng irritated a multiple series of suicides by one soul. I think in general the body and incarnation are sacred.

  81. 208 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 2:31 pm

    @or example, it is my understanding that hypnotic regression like Newton’s revealed in the East animal lives whereas in Newton no evidence of this arose.

    I would want to know more in-depth about that one…From my research on eastern philosophies…in particular Hinduism…I do agree that the art and the science of Hypnotism was known in depth to the ancient Hindu Rishis (souls beyond the transient who came down to impart the knowledge of divine. However the oldest Hindu knowledge base on divinity (the 4 Vedas to be precise) are supposed to be work of “shrutis” (“realized” and then spoken out verses by highly enlightened and then remembered to the T by vedic scholars and regurgitated “as it is” through several thousand years). Rather than being “smritis” (observed/heard notions through channels angels etc and subsequently written down and translated several times opening it up for contamination through various sources). There are several Smritis in eastern as well as hindu philosophy in particular that are considered to be fallible by Hindy scholars. Only Shrutis are considered to be reliable as being a direct realization and then being transferred unscatch due to Sanskrit language checks. An easy example of Smiriti would be the Bible that had at least 10 different versions translated from different sources and finally we read the standard version that might have excluded one teaching that was exclusive to one school of thought and 10 teachings that were never there but were included as 6 schools of though had it.

    In contrast the 4 Vedas and the “108 Hindu Upanishads” were the direct experiences of the 8 original hindu Rishis which were coded in Sanskrit to perfection in form of ewasy to remember and reproduce hyms, with 10 language checks in place. They were memorized by different schools from all directions at the source, and then spread verbally with even the breath retention to a particular syllable calculated to the T. The wide spread schools would meet every decade to make sure not even a breath is missed incorrectly. Even though the Vedas were finally written down on Palm leaves some 3000 years back but the written works are never relied upon. Even till date there are several vedic Schools who have vedic scholars capable of reciting the 20000+ verses of Vedas as it is….

    http://knramesh.blogspot.in/2010/12/why-vedas-cannot-be-changed.html

    Upanishads form the concluding part of the Vedas and are called ‘Vedanta’. They are the foundations on which most of the philosophies and religions of India/east or even west rest. The objective of these treatises is to ascertain the mystic sense of the text of the Vedas. Such metaphysical subjects as the origin of the Universe, nature of God, nature of Soul, and the connection between mind and matter are discussed.
    Upanishads are generally in prose form but some are in verse form too. There are about 108 in number, the oldest one dating back to minimum the sixth century B.C.

    This Upanishad discusses the nature of the Soul (Aatman) and describes it as ‘ that which cannot be described’. This is it’s ‘neti neti’ doctrine, meaning ‘not this, not this’.
    Mundakopanishad is meant for enlightened persons like Sanyasis, who are detached from worldly attachments.
    Prashnopanishad, as the name indicates, is in Question and Answer format. It answers, questions such as, what is the origin of Creation? Who are Devatas (gods)? How is life connected to the body? What is the truth behind the states of Wakefulness, Sleep and Dream? what are the benefits of chanting the Omkara mantra (Om). And finally what is the relationship between Jeeva (Life force) and Purusha. (Supreme Being)

    After doing a critical analysis of the eastern philosophy specially the vedas and upanishads that already had in depth knowledge of hypnotism and chanelling for last 5000 years, I would want to keep that as a yard stick as compared to knowledge getting discovered by western sources most of which primarily believed in fallacies as one life one death or judgment day up until last 5 decades….

    • 209 Ken Kaplan 25 Oct 2012 at 9:40 pm

      I hate to be contrarian about this but I was (and am) a direct disciple of an Indian Sat Guru for twenty years who died in 1990. (they never really die, no one does) so I was immersed in the tradition quite strongly.

      At this point I see our development as part of a spiral in which the West has a gift of what I call the “technology of consciousness” in which we can investigate these things in ways I have not seen before.

      My own orientation is Gnostic in the universal sense and thus I am not interested in what ancient traditions have to say about this, especially to the degree of detail you espouse. My perception is that so much is flooding through right now, that huge “downloads” are happening NOW (this site is one example), that for me those older forms don’t work. I am interested in what I can perceive directly that validates anything. Barry’s exposition of a collective soul grouping is not only something I have first hand experience with, but I have found nothing in ancient writings that would even hint at with such clarity the make up of some aspect of higher order realms.

      Perhaps there are because it was not my intent to assiduously study those writings (although I am familiar with them) but that doesn’t appeal to me when from my point of view the revelatory wisdom from then is now accessible in a form my Western mind can take in.

      My relationship to channeling appears to be different than yours. I feel I was guided by Guru after his death into channeling as the major form o the way I would be mentored. I believe my discernment is very strong and I have no compunction about what is clear and direct and what isn’t. I feel I have been blessed in that way. My Guru took the extraordinary step of channeling himself to me for 8 years through a highly gifted friend and it wasn’t just words, it was an amazing energetic flow of love as well. He would often say” The words are the envelope, the energy is what matters”. I have experienced this flow many times from many gifted channels and angelic communicators.

      Guru also emphasized that what appeared as one Guru was the “composite of all Guru frequencies”, the Source energy behind all forms of that nature and all forms in general.

      So I deal only with what is in front of me.

      I read the comparison to Newton in an off hand remark and I don’t know the truth and for practical purposes here -now, to me it doesn’t matter.

      I do believe, for example, that the knowledge contained here, unless there is a language problem.is highly inconsistent with the entirety of Buddhist teachings on reincarnation.

      Therefore what would be the value for me in studying that?

      I respect that ancient Rishis. But I have no interest in whatever detailed systems or hierarchies they devised as to who was more versed. versed.versed/proficient than whom.

  82. 210 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 2:45 pm

    @ But this is NOT RANDOM. There are two forms of causation. One is the destiny part that is scripted before incarnation and the other is the RESULT OF CHOICE (thoughts, vibration, action) that occur here with free will. No one is at the “whim” of life. Creating your reality is absolute.

    Well I think we are almost at agreement on that one. just this bit that I would not want to put only souls desire to decide upon the destiny part! I would say there are 2 more factors than just souls desire that will work on the destiny part.
    1) the soul guides overall understanding of what the soul needs to undergo as a learning experience that the soul at that point in time might not be mature enough to understand and might be reluctant to under go it, till it really does go through and comes back to analyse. As per the little bit of reading I have about “journey of souls” or the sequel it appears that the soul is shown the probable life it would undergo on physical plane in bits and pieces but then not the entire sequence is uncovered.
    2)
    3) Going through my grip on the eastern wisdom I pretty much agree to the Idea that karma in itself has stages of evolution. The incurred karma may not have to be repaid right away. “ Natural Laws of karma” give a cushion for the soul or the soul guides to inculcate the karmic consequences in the subsequent next lives and to pay them back. How ever if the incurred karma goes through an incubation period without getting realized, it becomes RIPE anyway , known in Sanskrit as “Prabdha karma” where in it has to be realized in the souls coming life anyway…..whether the soul or the soul guide likes it or not, plans it or not, nature has planned it anyway. Its dynamics are taken care by the universal laws of Karma.

    2.1) The reason behind it is that either the soul specially in the initial stages of soul evolution might not be mature enough to have the rationality to go through the consequences of each and every karma it might have incurred.

    2.2) Too much of karma getting accumulated till the mature or old phase for the soul to repay might put too much of burden on an already evolved soul that might have already understood the consequences of its previous less evolved phases and might feel burdensome or unnecessarily…..just the saying goes.. Justice delayed is justice denied….similarly Karmic consequences delayed = Karmic consequences denied….Its useless to react to Karmic debts that you incurred as an infant, baby or young soul as an old soul just because all this while you felt you were not ready. Its somewhat meaning less for the old soul at that point as most likely it would have not incurred such a karma as an old soul anyway if it had been that evolved.

    An easy analogy would be that you take huge credit on your credit card and you feel you are not yet ready to pay back the amount and would not want to pay at all as you are too busy spending on things that you feel are important at that time. How ever the basic minimum payment would always show up on your statement to be paid back as a worse case scenario…….and just in case you are even reluctant to pay that you will incur huge interests uncalled for even when eventually you end up getting in a position to repay….
    3. Yes I do agree that NOTHING IS RANDOM as its as per the souls will, or as per the soul guides vision….or in the end as per the natural laws of karma. Nothing is at random , in the end you deserve it somewhere, one way or the other.

    • 211 Ken Kaplan 26 Oct 2012 at 2:52 am

      I agree that how karma works and is distributed is extremely varied and vast and again not in compliance with human logical thought. O agree also with Newton that younger souls often do not participate in planning but are offered choices or even in very early stages might be swept into the next life, the issue of agreement pre=settled. It feels to me that karma and the law of attraction work hand in hand.

  83. 212 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 2:49 pm

    The soul has 100% control on what happens to it , with context to the choices it makes on what is thrown at him; However it might not have 100% control on what is being thrown at it! Or it assumes would be thrown at him….as that would include the soul guides plan as well as manifestation of natural laws of Karma!

    • 213 Ken Kaplan 26 Oct 2012 at 3:06 am

      Think at the highest level, not in human terms, of where control lies. Who re we, what are we? Who is doing what?

  84. 214 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 3:16 pm

    @ the notion that maybe the humans follow a hierarchy from the lower beings but you dont know. Also that the ants like creature might be following a group consciousness and lions elephants an individuals of sorts , but again you are not sure….

    On this for the time being I would go by the yard stick of the ancient eastern wisdom. As I said I have not yet gone throw the works of Schiewrz reading which either I much come up with my contradictions or modify my paradigm and agree to it. For the time being I would stick to the notion of steady step by step evolution. I would also want to add that I have been a keen observer of animal behavior for last one decade and have been in discussion with my now late uncle who was a wild life conservationist and photographer for 5 decades.

    Just a few points:

    1) Observing the animal behavior for so long and researching on it I find it difficult to gulp that Animals do not experiences the exact same bipolar extremities as humans do….perhaps they experience it at a milder level of consciousness as assumed by human brain, but in their own little pigeon holed consciousness they experience the same severity of a bipolar extreme node! I am not comfortable with the Idea that a small bird being preyed upon will feel the pinch of experiencing the helplessness and the pain of getting killed by a prey any less than a human would.

    2) Also If a soul wants to remain animal like because it cant handle the extremes of a human life……fine////no one is in a hurry….but the natural progression will still be to eventually and eventually seek a higher state of consciousnesses.

    Also the notion that some creatures ants and bees are more for a group consciousnesses and lets say elephants and lions are not. I would want to believe that every egoistic piece of energy has both individual consciousness as well as a group consciousness at the same time. If the genetics of a specie is more towards a group dynamism we tend to recognize the group consciousness more and vice versa. As an example ants do so a genetic preference towards a group dynamism more as compared to lets say Lions or ants but then pick up one shoulder ant and one labor ant out of the ant hill and provoke them separately and they will show completely individualistic behavior.

    Also though lioness might appear to have individual consciousness as more prominent but if you dig into their mechanism of hunting in a group you would realize that each individual lioness is aware of the exact location of the other intuitively so that they can execute a perfect attact. They dont rely on sound vibrations either as that may alert the prays. A perfect example of group conscious. Another example of group conscious in otherwise individualistic conscious being would be a 1000 shoulders marching together in perfect coordination! Or a group acrobatics!

    • 215 Ken Kaplan 26 Oct 2012 at 3:03 am

      I have a friend who is an unbelievable animal communicator and her insights into animal consciousness blow your mind. I find that animals are far more advanced from a Soul perspective than we could ever imagine.

      This is an area I’m not on as sure footing and again, whatever we believe, how does it practically inform us for our lives now? For me the only change is an appreciation for the non human world and the “web of life”. I have become somewhat uncomfortable with “humans at the top”. I went out to a lake one day and asked the trees for forgiveness for humanity’s destruction of them. The wave of forgiveness and of “knowing” was so profound and beyond anything I could imagine it took my breath away.

      In real terms, we don’t really know what’s going on here. We get these glimpses.

  85. 216 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Also as per the Hindu school of though the aprox number of species in this word is said to be 8.4 million and as per the current assumption by BBC its round about 8.7 million. Now thats ball park a pretty accurate a figure given that 5000years back there ver no microscopes or the scope of movement was limited. Now that accurate a number has to come by realization and not by evaluation.

    If animals were to be reluctant to get into human lives because of the complexities even in so called animal world (only difference between the humans and animals being a bit of frontal lobe in the brain) has unimaginable variance in the levels of complexities or extremes ranging from the viruses to almost 98% human like DNA for Chimps? Now how do they decide on this variance to decide which creature to be born as……As the vedas indicate it all starts from bare minimum…perhaps as Viruses as we know they are the border line case between living and non living…and evolve by natural progression….now the natural progression can be very well decided by the brain body mass…..and perhaps plants have a brain mechanism that may not correspond to a central nervous system but conceptually comparable. Its a fact that humans of all the species discovered till date have the highest brain to body mass ration…..

  86. 217 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Also I would not rely on the hypnotic regression data that much as I havent seen too many transient or beyond souls who got regressed ….and there exposure to the the realms beyond might be too limited to draw the picture…. Chanel-ling opens up a whole new arena but then even the channeled souls or groups of souls would have their own levels of evolution that might turn limiting to express all that there is…..The only way to know it all is to realize being it all…..being one with the essence and thats how the vedic wisdom came into existence…through the realization of self…..the entire aim of the prism of incarnation is not to gain experiences but to realize self and to be one with it…the various experiences only aid as crutches…..the act of realizing self is not accumulative but discrete…

    I very strongly feel that the various Psychic rings of energies (known as kundalini chakras) and their relative development and manifestations relative to the spiritual level of growth of a soul needs to be incorporated in this model of soul evolution to gain a better understanding to in the entire process of reincarnation. Entry into something beyond a transient soul or as vedas call Samadhi or Buddhist call Nirvana is nothing but the soul energy penetrating through the 7 psychic over eons of evolution to rip the Cranial Chakra….and that marks an end to the 7 stages of soul evolution…..and then on the soul might just come down…as and when required by essence ………..
    .

  87. 218 goldeneternaltransit 25 Oct 2012 at 4:12 pm

    As a last note even though I do believe in akashic plane (again an ancient vedic notion), but I believe it is being misunderstood as a repository of souls past lives……The experiences of souls past lives get embedded in the soul itself as something described in upanishads as “Sanskara” a term popular in Budhism as well. The soul carries along the sanskaras (the impressions of this life) just like it has been carrying along the impressions of past lives….that for its instincts, intuitions and as some say conscious. It stays along as impressions…..just like our physical memory remembers our memories of last few days, and then last few weeks and then eventually only the critical memories discretely same goes with the soul…..the soul might not even be able to pin point an exact birth as we would do under regression….as its only because of regression…..

    Again a soul might decide to leave a part of its energy up their….but I would still wonder why would it want to do so when its going in for its most important mission, ie a physical birth?….what it would rather believe is that what it would be leaving behind is more of a shadow…or a replica image….

    • 219 goldeneternaltransit 28 Oct 2012 at 4:29 pm

      Tx KEN for your replies. There is always something new to learn from just any point of view. The only thing i have to say is that i am absolutely not againt the of late download of preexisting wisdom on soul evolution of east with more focus on intricacies. I imbibe it with both hands to the point it makes sense to.me. for my reading of 108 eastern upanishads i am still of the opinion that its still a more holistic and practicle discorse on creation itself somehing that the recent hypnotic or chanelling aproach has failed to answer completely. Answers to some very basic questions are left unanswered by chanelling data. Anyway i am in a win win situation alwaya as i already have the answer to the most elimentary questions about creation through elaborate antcient wisdom lack of which makes the entire idea unholistic and unnatural plus i have access to all the mordern day refinkents through chanelling data. I am in the process of embracing both sides of the coin to get the perfect currency. Anyway we minght not be on the same page but all the best to you on your page and and all the best to me on mine hehe. Hope we both end up reading the same book in the end. Take care. On a sabatical for some time now.

      • 220 goldeneternaltransit 28 Oct 2012 at 4:34 pm

        Sorry for the typos.as i am always apoor speller an it turns worse on my tablet.hehe.

  88. 221 goldeneternaltransit 28 Oct 2012 at 5:13 pm

    My last passing thoughts…I just wonder…If your Guru was right up there…ball park…why did he have to wait till he was dead and then painstakingly pass on the wisdom to you over a period of 8 years…Why couldn’t he simply throw it at you while he was still alive> Ironically, Even though Buddhism and Hinduism are put together as “eastern” religions…but it would be interesting to know if your guru a Buddhist or a Hindu…As even though lord Buddha was originally a Hindu and eventually after attaining nirvana had reveled 500 of his past lives in form of Jataka…but there are some elementary differences between Buddhism and Hinduism, The wisdom of Upanishads hold the key difference that Buddhism lacked and eventually got uprooted from the land of its origin, not by the way of sword but on pure intellectual debates…. I bet your guru must be a Buddhist!

    • 222 goldeneternaltransit 28 Oct 2012 at 6:53 pm

      I dont believe in big bang as its based on an absurd thought that it all happened from a nebula. There is no explanation on how the nebula came to existance. Similarly if souls came from essence, where did essence come from? If you say i dont know i will say i do know as its all elaborately discussed in upanishads. Also 35 steps are just a metamorphical concept for the ease of our comprehension. Another group of souls can come up with 40 or 45 steps etc.

  89. 223 goldeneternaltransit 29 Oct 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Here is the bottom line as has always been my favorite quote….”The state of Samadhi or Nirvana is a state of channeling the ESSENCE directly…..once you are able to do that you don’t have to look forth towards a lesser evolved spiritual entity to know all that is…..as the creator itself lays it open to you, directly…. ”

    An old story from the Upanishads….There was a guy who was trying to count the number of trees in a massive garden, desperately….An old man walked to him and asked…”Chap what are you up to?” He Said that, “Sir I have this bet to count the number of trees in this garden so I am trying hard at it”….On hearing this the old man started laughing…..He said, “buddy I ll tell you a short cut….Instead of trying to count the number of trees manually, that you might not ever be able to succeed in, why don’t you take a different approach? Why don’t you go and have a word with the Gardner who has been taking care of this garden from its inception….He has raised each and every tree of this garden as his own child…Go to him and he will have the number of trees on the tip of his tongue…..”

    The metaphoric Gardner here is none other than the essence…he is the only source to be channeled to get the perfect information about his creation….and its possible through various esoteric practices….Period!

    • 224 Ken Kaplan 31 Oct 2012 at 12:33 pm

      Of course this is what is meant by direct experience. After all, who are you, me, everyone anyway? The higher self of one is the higher self of all. Samadhi and Nirvana are terms not to be thrown around lightly. One can experience direct contact or “channeling of essence” without Samadhi. There are various forms of these states and most of us have not experienced at all or perhaps one or a few times in our lifetime the higher states of Samadhi. Nirvana is a Buddhist term so I am not as familiar with it as the other. I believe I experienced a Nirvana like state once. I was on a small mountain at the top looking at a grand vista and I went into complete stillness and total “beingness” with no mind activity for two hours. The peace and oneness was over whelming.

      I have had hundreds of peak experiences of deep communion-union with source energy but I would not call them Samadhi. Maybe they are.

      Direct contact with essence and “channeling” of such happens almost daily for me.

      To me its still OK when Source or essence provides guidance in any form. The point I have been making is that unless one integrates it into some form of direct contact, direct experience, its value is diminished.

      There is a difference, for example, in reading about Jesus in the Bible and communicating with him directly. There is a difference between reading about God and experiencing that you are it (“Thou Art That”.

  90. 225 goldeneternaltransit 31 Oct 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Dear Ken,

    the bottom margin line , as I already stated the bottom line :)…….Nice to read through your views. I agree to most of what you say……but for the time being I have more important goal in hand…..I am sure my soul must have planed to get over a basic tendency of mine to end up sounding “rude” while trying to state my point of view…and I must say that you and even Barry are way ahead of me on that one…if not already mastered the art…so for the time being everything else takes a back seat and my focus is back on not to sound arrogant, cocky if not all together rude….that I know I mostly end up sounding…Humility is a great art to master and to deliver, and I am still trying to master it…..In the end I would want to believe that we being here would imply that we are on the right trajectory in the way of realizing ourselves and to work upon ourselves….and I am pretty much working upon myself…As I said I ll rather go on a sabbatical for some time , trying my way out on being more humble and not rude….All the best to you guys for the work you are doing….I ll get back once I am sure I am humble enough to express my views not by not sounding rude……Take care…. I will catch up :)

    • 226 Ken Kaplan 31 Oct 2012 at 4:47 pm

      I think you’re doing fine. Just the fact that you are drawn to this site, are participating in and resonate with the energy and concepts, and are using it as a step in your journey all point to me that in your essence you are pretty developed. I do want to comment on your questions-thoughts about my Guru but I’ll do that later.

      You’re right where you need to be. (Now if I can only get that through my own thick skull). For me judgment is a huge contract issue.

      • 227 goldeneternaltransit 31 Oct 2012 at 5:25 pm

        I didn’t plan to sound rude about your guru, but somewhere I know I just did…A guru is much like a father…. pretty unique and customized , they all have their pluses and unique ways to nurture their young ones or disciples. just like I would say my Daddy strongest, my Guru is the best everyone has a similar right…and I need to l\earn to respect that…. I should not have been judgmental as I know its a pretty emotional and individualistic touch point. sorry if i just hurt. I will be back to know more about him in some time. Take care and keep evolving. all the best! :)

        • 228 Ken Kaplan 02 Nov 2012 at 7:57 pm

          You wrote
          “My last passing thoughts…I just wonder…If your Guru was right up there…ball park…why did he have to wait till he was dead and then painstakingly pass on the wisdom to you over a period of 8 years…Why couldn’t he simply throw it at you while he was still alive> Ironically, Even though Buddhism and Hinduism are put together as “eastern” religions…but it would be interesting to know if your guru a Buddhist or a Hindu…As even though lord Buddha was originally a Hindu and eventually after attaining nirvana had reveled 500 of his past lives in form of Jataka…but there are some elementary differences between Buddhism and Hinduism, The wisdom of Upanishads hold the key difference that Buddhism lacked and eventually got uprooted from the land of its origin, not by the way of sword but on pure intellectual debates…. I bet your guru must be a Buddhist!”

          I think this entails some ignorance as to who or what Guru is and how the energy works.

          First off, my Guru (Shri Shri Anandamurti -which means figure of or embodiment of bliss), was not that well known in the West like Sai Baba was, yet he had millions of followers. So you must understand the idea of a “personal” relationship once his movement flowered in the human relational sense of perhaps “chatting” or talking with him in a room for let’s say an hour was never a possibility. People would fly thousands of miles and almost fight just to get perhaps 10 minutes of what was called “physical contact”. Add to this he was unavailable at all for 8 years as a political prisoner of the Indian Government (Case taken by Amnesty International was thrown out eventually). So imparting wisdom to me personally when the form was used to mentor millions as an entry point just does not apply.

          But it was my experience over years, especially when I saw him for the only time physically in India in the entire 20 year period that I began to understand what was going on. True Guru is not a person. It is direct Source energy completely flowing through the form. My Guru used to say, “I am not this form. What I am is far beyond this form”. And ‘Those who will be closest to me will be those who realize me deepest in their meditation. They can be in the back of the room (or not in it at all) but will experience me far more intimately than many who are in closest physical proximity”.

          So as I said, the idea of “why didn’t he express these things directly” has no bearing. Secondly, there are phases to our growth. Two things of primary importance happened in the twenty years while he was alive. First, my contact with him was though dreams, huge dreams, Biblical dreams, like Jacob and the ladder. I would wake up from his presence in dozens and dozens of dreams over the years in a state of ecstasy, bliss and love. These were Samadhi like experiences. My belief is that there was a contract between Guru (my higher self representation) and me (“lower self” or “incarnated self”) in that I was not going to be emotionally strong enough to gain darshan or Divine contact through traditional means (going to India) and thus an arrangement was set up whereby his energy would come to me in a fairly unique manner. Thus I bonded to him intimately through this contact. And he was not like Gurus of today who tour the U.S. and/or are very available. Not only was he in prison for 8 years, but he almost never left India (three times
          in his lifetime. So he made it REALLY hard to get to him.

          In addition, my karma was such that in that period when he was alive, I had a very severe nervous breakdown, partly precipitated by his imprisonment. Which he foretold in a dream very specifically two years before it happened.

          So you must understand, the kind of “human” perception of how things should look like or be is vastly different than the way, manner and purpose of how things unfolded. Also, we grow through experience, so to just “throw it out there” is inappropriate. Much of this learning came at huge cost, almost a fight for my life. And if you read of the severity of some Guru’s lessons for disciples, you can see here how it played out that way, just not in the traditionally depicted manner.

          I will finish this soon. but that answers your first part.

          • 229 Ken Kaplan 03 Nov 2012 at 7:53 pm

            Second part.
            My Guru was a Yogic Master from the Hindu lineage. He based his teachings on the eight limb path of Patanjali , which he updated.The six lessons of Ananda Marga were based upon this system.

            Yama : Universal morality
            Niyama : Personal observances
            Asanas : Body postures
            Pranayama : Breathing exercises, and control of prana
            Pratyahara : Control of the senses
            Dharana : Concentration and cultivating inner perceptual awareness
            Dhyana : Devotion, Meditation on the Divine
            Samadhi : Union with the Divine

            There are profound differences between the Hindu -Yogic path and Buddhism. My Guru emphasized devotion to the Supreme Consciousness (Brahman) as the primary object of all our spiritual practice. The idea of an organized intelligent Source is absolutely central to the path, as it is for most. For Buddhism, however, this is not clear. Even if Buddhism believes in a Source, it is not concerned with it. I have many Tibetan Buddhist friends and that path is rather adamant that there is no organized central intelligence, but rather a “plenum void of infinite possibilities”. I am not an expert in this area but in reading the fine print, it seems Buddha may have been aware of Source but did not want to focus on it. A famous line attributed to him is (paraphrase) if a poison apple is shot into you, why bother as to who shot it or why? Just fix the problem.

            My Guru chastised the Buddha saying Buddha was aware of the Supreme but refused to name him. He also said that to believe there was no central organizing principle was to believe a windstorm swept through a junkyard and assembled a fully functioning 747.

            My own take is that we must remember the context of the emergence of Buddhism, which arose in a period of corruption of Hinduism and over attachment to a plethora of Gods and Goddesses in a semi materialistic way. Thus Buddhism, with its pointed clarity of investigation of consciousness and suffering-liberation here and now was a huge antidote to this problem. I find Buddhism to be a great, great wisdom tradition (it does not consider itself a religion per se), and one of the greatest contributions the world has ever known. I love Pema Chodron and find that Buddhist thought grounds me often when I get too flighty.

            However, at heart I am not a Buddhist. I follow a devotional path. Angels as we know them now, guides, inter galactic friends, Soul cobtracts -these things are alien to Buddhism. However I must stipulate that devotion is a paradox. For in following devotion, devotion eventually dissembles for one realizes there is no separation between the object and Self. Thou Art That. As the Course in Miracles says forgiveness is not really necessary because at the highest levels everyone is doing what they are supposed to do, but is useful while in the human dualistic framework, similarly there is ultimately no need for devotion because one already IS what one seeks, but again it is useful while in this dualistic framework.

            I cannot be fully Buddhist not only because I was profoundly mentored in devotion but my experience is that there is an intelligent Source to life. Other traditions express this quite well. Here is one of my favorite poems by Kabir:

            I. 85. Sâdho, Brahm alakh lakhâyâ

            When He Himself reveals Himself, Brahma brings into manifestation That which can never be seen.
            As the seed is in the plant, as the shade is in the tree, as the void is in the sky, as infinite forms are in the void–
            So from beyond the Infinite, the Infinite comes; and from the Infinite the finite extends.

            The creature is in Brahma, and Brahma is in the creature: they are ever distinct, yet ever united.
            He Himself is the tree, the seed, and the germ.
            He Himself is the flower, the fruit, and the shade.
            He Himself is the sun, the light, and the lighted.
            He Himself is Brahma, creature, and Maya.
            He Himself is the manifold form, the infinite space;
            He is the breath, the word, and the meaning.
            He Himself is the limit and the limitless: and beyond both the limited and the limitless is He, the Pure Being.
            He is the Immanent Mind in Brahma and in the creature.

            The Supreme Soul is seen within the soul,
            The Point is seen within the Supreme Soul,
            And within the Point, the reflection is seen again.
            Kabîr is blest because he has this supreme vision!

            Mirrors the Upanishads very nicely. Yet I cannot deny the enormous contribution Buddhism has given my life.

            No, my Guru most assuredly was not a Buddhist.

            Take care.

            • 230 satnam 21 Jan 2013 at 9:29 pm

              I really like what you have written.. I’m a sikh and a follower of bhagat Kabeer Ji.. I went to thailand to practice meditation in a buddhist school and felt there was something really important missing and you have highlighted the same feeling. Do u have face book profile? I’m a serious meditator, so it will be interesting to exchange thoughts…

              • 231 ken kaplan 22 Jan 2013 at 6:23 am

                Thanks. I have a Facebook profile but really am not much of a social media person. WE might dialogue some here. I agree I might have problems at a Buddhist retreat but you never know. The mind can’t know. Whatever is for the best usually shows up. Ram Das once said that things for him that once were very dry had become “moist” (rich). So strangely a Buddhist retreat at the right time could be very “moist”.

                But generally I agree. I am not drawn to traditional Buddhist forms but to be honest, I’m not drawn anymore to traditional forms of any kind anymore, even the path I once studied.

                I am now drawn to what I believe has been emerging for some tome, A gnostic, Western form devoted to the “technology of consciousness” expressed through channeling, other forms, and direct experience. These dovetail with, but are not contained (or constrained by) older traditions.

                This site is an expression of that form. All, are at the stage they need to be.

  91. 232 goldeneternaltransit 31 Oct 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Just to end it on a poetic note…

    Sometimes I am on a high…
    and I tend to fly…
    eventually,
    when I reach the bottom…
    I tend to ask …why?…… Lol// :)

    And, of course, I am on my desktop to make no typos, Tx Barry for incorporating the Spell check. I would request for a modify line item feature though, for the second thoughts :)

    • 233 goldeneternaltransit 31 Oct 2012 at 3:33 pm

      Ps: spell check somehow doesn’t work on my TAB :). I know I might sound obsessed about spellings…but perhaps its one of my life plans :)

  92. 234 Ken Kaplan 10 Nov 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Guru – Part 3

    Just to finish this off. As I mentioned Gurus with large followings often don’t have much or any time for one on one interaction to a lengthy degree. Their energy and presence is usually experienced in crowds. Sai Baba is one example.

    However the true Guru as I have said is not the form but Source consciousness moving through the form. Since we are also Source consciousness moving through our forms, the true Guru is within and we are one with it.

    Therefore, the inner Guru knows of things, events, pathways that the outer Guru may never address because of many factors such as the need to be a bridge for millions of devotees of great diversity. There can be little opportunity to address complex individual issues through one form.

    But, ah, the inner Guru has all the time and flexibility in the world once the connection is made to address these issues and phases of the journey. Thus my Guru never spoke of angels or channeling or Soul Contracts or extensively of the Law of Attraction.etc. It wasn’t his job.

    I noticed early on the often I was inwardly guided to do things that seemed against outer Guru’s discipline or teaching. Once Guru died in form, inner Guru, the real Guru, was entirely still active. I had dreams, powerful dreams with my Guru (and other Gurus such as Neem Karoli Baba) well after their deaths. And the guidance to paths such as Angels and channeling were Guru directed, even though physically my “Baba” never really addressed them.

    But inner Guru knew. And knew what I needed and took steps to address those needs. Because I had been so emotionally sick during much of the time Baba had been alive (1976-1984), there was a tremendous “Guru wound”. Thus the extraordinary appearance of the Guru in channeled form. Guru mentioned once in a channeling how highly unusual it was for him to use that vehicle. But it afforded an intimacy and opportunity to heal and teach that was unparalleled and totally needed to heal the deficiency of love that I experienced when he was alive.

    Inner Guru can use anything and will direct one very specifically to what one needs in ways that the outer form is incapable. That’s why these issues could not be addressed in the manner you suggested. Also, if a phase of learning is years down the road, how could the outer form possibly make it clear until the time came?

    Hope this helps.

    • 235 Ken Kaplan 10 Nov 2012 at 6:52 pm

      P.S. And for those who never get an “outer Guru”, EVERYONE has the inner Guru. Because it is within and you are it. “More blessed are tjose who have not seen, yet believed”.

  93. 236 Brian 13 Nov 2012 at 5:26 am

    all I wanted to know is, if God gives us free choice, I would imagine that’s not just in this life, but also the next. The question is, whether the choice is of our present consciousness, or our higher consciousness? if it’s the latter, then surely that’s an interference of “my” choice ?

    • 237 barry 13 Nov 2012 at 7:52 am

      So if I have understood you correctly, Brian, you’re suggesting that if, in moving on after this life to a state of higher consciousness, we become better able to make wise choices than we are as mere human personalities, then that must undermine our human choices?

      Well, the free choices available to us “up there” are not the same as we face here. For example, a soul on the higher planes cannot choose between killing and not killing, whereas down here we can and many do. That’s precisely why souls come here, to face choices that don’t exist in spirit.

      We always have free will, but it is through the human experience that we gradually come to understand what it means and how to use it. Then it is through our return to higher consciousness that we gain the wisdom of hindsight.

      You might get to the end of this life, move into higher consciousness and realise that the way you treated someone was not the best choice. They will see it too, but in higher consciousness you will also both have the compassion to forgive yourself for having acted out of ignorance at the time. As a soul, you respect the free will of your human personality with a great sense of love, and a longing to do it better next time.

      Also bear in mind that having higher consciousness is not the same as being totally evolved.

      I hope this answers it, but if not let me know.

  94. 238 Shellie 14 Nov 2012 at 12:08 am

    Barry can you please help me with a question? My friend believes she is the reincarnation of Edward Weston even though he died eight years after she was born. Do you believe this is possible?

    • 239 Shellie 14 Nov 2012 at 12:13 am

      Ken I would love your answer also. Thank you.

    • 240 barry 16 Nov 2012 at 9:12 am

      I was once told that I had been a certain architect in my previous life – there are good similarities, but he was retired on a beach while I was being born, so I don’t really know how that works. My instinct says, no, not likely. Though that doesn’t make it not possible of course. They could in theory be “parallel” incarnations of the same soul.

  95. 241 Suzy 14 Nov 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Great stuff!

  96. 242 skyespitfire 22 Nov 2012 at 2:28 am

    Hi Barry, me again! I have one question: you say that once the soul has reached its final stage then it mingles with all the souls it knew and they become one in a light of love? But what if your soul is finished and those you loved on earth still have a long way to go? This is something that confuses and saddens me, if we cannot be reunited with those we love after death.

    Also, I have written about my first experience with a Past Life Regressionist that I had recently; if you recall, I emailed you enquiring on how to go about it. It is on my blog, you may find it interesting if you have time to read it.

    • 243 barry 22 Nov 2012 at 7:48 am

      Hi skyespitfire

      You’re imagining how a highly evolved soul would feel from a human perspective, projecting human experiences of loss, frustration and longing onto a level of consciousness where such things are not experienced. Being “separated” from specific beings you regard as “loved ones” today is just not an issue.

      Great to hear about your PLR, skyespitfire – I’ll take a look.

    • 244 barry 25 Nov 2012 at 12:55 pm

      Hi again – very much enjoyed reading your PLR experience, and particularly like your writing style. Would you like to add a link here?
      B

      • 245 skyespitfire 25 Nov 2012 at 2:10 pm

        Thank you Barry, I’m glad you liked it! It really was a fascinating experience and it, among other things this year, has really worked towards a transition for me. The link to my article? Certainly, if you don’t mind, shall I just c+p here?

        • 246 barry 26 Nov 2012 at 5:40 pm

          Here we go:
          Who I Was in My Past Life, by Skye Spitfire
          http://skyespitfire.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/289/

  97. 247 Andre 23 Nov 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Just a few pointers that were roaming in my mind for sometime and I felt like re regurgitating over here…as the best forum:

    1) 35 steps of michael are a way for the commoners to conceptualize and make sense of every thing that is specially a discrete concept of reincarnation and may not be discrete in itself!

    2) The actual Channels of Michael may just be 5% of the total download, rest might just be instances of schizophrenia, people assuming being channeled or having bizarre hearings or visions, or are suffering from ADHS.Barry will know it better being a psychologist himself.

    3) Too much of the download has human mindset in evidence. May be there is 10% of actual downloads by genuine Chanel rests seem to me human interventions. People manipulating stuff claiming it to be channeled when its actually just there though process working in…..

    4) Concepts that seem to be pretty much human:
    4.1) only humans having souls. (showing insecurity of some human being not being comfortable of being an animal life in previous life)

    4.2) Souls having preference for geographic regions (showing of some human being not being comfortable with being born in Africa previously over and over again. At most it might be a preference to a gender that evens out as 50- 50 anyway)

    4.3) Dolphins being the only other creatures to have a soul. What I feel is that the question that was actually asked was “are there souls from any other planet on the earth” and the answer could be dolphins…..but the question being projected seems to be…are there any other souls other than humans…the answer dolphins …..from some other planet soesnt sound right.

    4.4) souls and lives are different…..body lives till soul hangs in….or it lives at the mercy of other souls…..that is as a fetus in mothers womb at mercy of the motherly soul…..he individuality comes in only after the birth when the soul joins in at the moment of birth….before that life is dependent on or a reflection of the will of motherly soul…

    4.5) Souls have complete control of what situations are brought to them….they are only in complete control of the response to the situations being brought to them…..

  98. 248 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Essence is not for us….but we are for the essence….so its not always going to be what “WE decide for ourselves”….but in the end what “essence decides for US” (based on very discrete laws) for its own grand evolutionary purpose ….whether we like it or not! In the end we are all pure fragments of essence entrapped in our evolutionary lenses, (be it animals or humans or whatever) seeing the world accordingly, with a sense of EGO, till we evolve and reach a sense of true realization of self…after ripping apart all the delusional personalities we have assumes by work of MAYA (The delusional force set forth by the essence himself!). Reaching the ultimate realization, that in our pure essence , we are nothing but just the essence! Aham Brahamasmi! Eko Brahma Ditno na asti! (i.e. I am thee and there is no second but just me!).

    • 249 Ken Kaplan 24 Nov 2012 at 10:01 pm

      Very well put but given where we are now I would encourage you to deemphasize the linear thinking. (Even though it is useful) You always were the essence, you are the essence, you always will be the essence. Realization to me is not about getting anywhere, it is unlayering of obstructions to that which is eternally present as the only reality. Just saying what you are in a different way.

      • 250 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:54 pm

        To be honest I could really get this one at the point ” Realization to me is not about getting anywhere, it is unlayering of obstructions to that which is eternally present as the only reality. Just saying what you are in a different way.” if you could elasticated! :)

        • 251 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:57 pm

          LOL again an auto generated typo…..the last word is not elasticated . but elucidate….:)

          • 252 Andre 26 Nov 2012 at 4:11 am

            What some would perceive as linear approach I perceive as holistic approach and a realistic approach. We are all essence and always have been and always will be is not something to be heard about or talked about as thats the only linear approach I can think of. One can end up listening to discourses of a guru for 50years and can get the same information by channeling around or reading about, but whats the end result on progression? Almost zero. Something, why a souls would decide to take a plunge in physical world as it’s a more realistic experience than just piling up or other forms of information that takes you nowhere if you are not realizing the information. At this point in time let me put forth my understanding of the word “realization”.
            1) One reads, one channel or one listen to people, alive or dead, work upon your intuitions driven by direct indirect experiences including that of previous lives, one listens to others discuss with others, form opinions and concepts etc its all in the same boat; that’s just part one , that’s what I call a linear approach.

            2) One sits down and tries to make sense of all that they have gathered accumulated by brains, minds, intelligence, intellect, further opinions and information from others (including channelling). That’s still a linear approach. It still wont take one anywhere.

            3) Finally comes the point where you know that you have reached a point of saturation as far as gathering linear approaches you have taken so far and decide to take a more holistic approach that is to “REALIZE”, realise all that is being accumulated.

            4) To realize is to experience something directly, the personal direct experiences and not about someone elses direct experiences; individualistically practically and not just mere cognitively or as opinions of others on what they have practically experienced. There is no second or second opinion in realization as they can always be deceiving. And no one really needs to look upto someone else to know just anything at all, as all the information and knowledge is stored within us anyway, we just need to connect to it from inside and not connect to it from outside…thats a futile pathway.

            5) In the end the one and only reason for this entire hula bulla of creation is a game being played between the omnipresent essence and the “egoistic” “individualistic” reflection if it ie the soul. And the only and “the one and only reason” and the only “holistic” reason of soul going on the journey or self-realization through reincarnation is to “REALIZE” and to “REALIZE” and to REALIZE…… SELF; OR ESSENE. And when I say realize I really don’t mean knowing or saying the phrase that “we are all essence” realizing means practically experiencing being the essence, and when you “realize” and not just think that you are the essence all mysteries are automatically resolved as essence consciousness if far above any of the channelled consciousness.

            6) I remember hearing a phrase “we are essence”….When one realize the state of Brahma (essense) i.e a state of Samadhi there are no “we’s” there is only” I”. Also, our discussion about Samadhi states which is none other than state of self realization is not a small world. There are several stages and sub stages and then the final stage that is poorn (complete) Samadhi (realization) or Nirvikalpa samadhi (Realization without a dual aspect).

            It would take another forum altogether to discuss all this but just one thing, that, its not unusual to experience some aspect of Samadhi at less intense levels, at times even spontaneously, or even during sleep state. Mordern science is aware of these phenomenon’s and tries to label them as sleep paralysis or lucid dreaming, but boy oh boy these are nothing less than some real and amazing OOB experiences or a state of high. I have had so many of these, every one is bound to have atleast a few, as all have their relative levels of Kundalini energy working its way through chackras (psychic plexus). However, the state of poorna (complete) Samadhi is as rare as the Buddha’s and the Christ’s or the last olds and the transients & beyond. The achievement of poorna Samadhi is a sign of graduation from the cycles of physical birth. The one who attains it is the one who gains liberation or “nirvana” from cycles of physical births, and the one who comes back to physical world for special purposes re-lives through the experience before starting of and becomes a Buddha…..

  99. 253 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 3:46 pm

    35 steps of evolution for the soul are something similar to 4 steps of evolution mentioned in some eastern texts….as Child state, scholar state, married state and the dispassionate state….

    The soul types are more discrete a concept than the 35 steps as they are concrete…..as it is…..King, scholar, artisans and scholars are facts and not concepts. If 2moro some one comes in and says that as per some channel source there are 5 stages of being king et all….and that becomes non discrete. Its astonishing that the 5 soul types were discussed in Vedas at least 5000 years back as it is….to the point of being just exact copies by modern day channel insight. Many westerns confuse the 4 strata Varna system mentioned in Vedas with the 4 strata cast system that was only an expression of human mind set…something similar to the concept of slavery in many non eastern systems…….the Vedas never lied….it was all there 5000 years back as it is….!!

    • 254 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 3:48 pm

      Not to forget the servers…the Shudras as mentioned 5000 years back…and highly misinterpreted then and as well as now….

  100. 255 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Still I would say 35 steps have become a part of my conceptualization of creation,,,,,,, so has the types of souls and the soul mate concepts , soul guides etc that never were so clearly conceptualized in the eastern wisdom….perhaps the world is going through a major paradigm change……but I would still want the ea”s”t and the west to fuse at this point in time….and move on and move over…. else am “s”till a big fan of 35 steps just a”s” concept for t”hat” matter….it makes sense….even as a concept……

    • 256 Ken Kaplan 24 Nov 2012 at 10:06 pm

      Why worry about East and West? Isn’t that the task of “essence”. Anyway I’d say its happening because YOU already are a fusion of East and West. Let the collective deal with itself. That’s its business. You’re doing fine with your piece of the pie from my perspective..

      • 257 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:04 pm

        Hey Ken nice to see you again :). I agree, why worry about east or west….but sometimes I find west dealing with arrogance to the wisdom of east that might actually hasten the process of our understanding of these concepts in entirety…..Why reject and waste the wisdom thats there already and get driven by a passion to discover something new when its nothing new at all but only a progression on something pretty ancient….I remember you quoting a saying by one one of your Buddhist friends…what difference does it make how you reached here, what matters is where you are heading next…My reply to that would be “you can never be sure about where you are heading till you are not sure of where you are coming from…If you tend to start a fresh at every point there is a strong possibility of heading back North when you are already coming from North….and just dont recollect it!

  101. 258 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Bottom line: I would have never understood the concept of reincarnation without the so clear mention of 35 steps (even if conceptual) even with all my accumulated ancient wisdom about reincarnation!

  102. 259 Andre 24 Nov 2012 at 4:38 pm

    I must say I remember going through a lot of stuff while trying to find answers to a lot of questions I had and your site gave me a lot of solace………and opened me up for a new dimension all together…

    • 260 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:08 pm

      EASTERN CAST SYSTEM: A BLESSING IN DISGUISE FOR THE SOULS? Channeling soul types= 6/3 + 1 = 4; Varna system = 4 discrete blocks! Even though the Varna system described in ancient Vedas were more indicative of 4 basic tendencies and nature of souls in general that pretty much incorporates the 7 types described more recently by channeling sources; however the cast system based on division by birth that came up as a result of misinterpreting it over ages, acted as a blessing in disguise for the planning souls. It made their before birth planning and execution so much easier buy knowing that just by being born to certain parents in some cast lineage would automatically expose them to certain experiences that they would want to gather. For example if I as a soul planned to experience real humiliation and discrimination I would simply choose to be born as a Shudra (lowest on the supposed cast stack) and I would know for sure I would come across ample incidences of humiliations and discrimination because of my social strata. On the other hand if it were to be an all equal all just environment I would have to invest a lot more energy on planning and then to find the conducive scenarios to face humiliation and discrimination. Having a segregated dissimilar cast stacking and privileges even though can be argued to be unjustifiable but still hints towards a grander planning.

      • 261 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:23 pm

        TYPO; 6/2 + 1 = 4 ; lol :) more precisely east says the warrior class includes kings and the warriors and the west wants to put it separately as warriors and kings….et all….

  103. 262 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:09 pm

    THE UMBILICAL CHORD, TIME OF SOUL FUSION AND VOLUNTARY “REAL” OUT OF BODY SOULS AND NOT MERE OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES OR ASTRAL PROJECTIONS: There are notions about the possible time when the soul enters the fetus…ranging from 6-7 months (with a reasonable brain development level ) or right at the time of the birth or even being in and out of it several times before finally integrating into it….all possibilities are pretty possible and perhaps all coexist. However there might be different times of for the soul to actually enter the fetus but intuitively I feel that there is a dead line. And the dead line is the cutting of the umbilical chord. The mothers soul is the life support system of the to be born fetus till it is connected to it with the umbilical chord…The fetus soul can come and join in and anytime before that as technically two souls can share the same body (easy examples would be conjoint twins who share at least some parts of their bodies).

    Now two souls can share a conjoined body but a body cant be termed “living” without at least one soul energy in it. Chopping the umbilical chord is the end of the direction connection between the mother body and its extension ie the fetus. From that moment on the baby is truly “born” and is an individual independent from mothers soul and would not sustain on its own if not taken over and propelled by the soul energy (also termed as Pranic energy in east). no instances of astral travel might be a common phenomenon but soul physically moving out of the body at will and moving around in the physical sphere is surely not common. Though there are a few eccentric eastern “Hath yoga techniques” that can be mastered over several years of practice that will let you travel in and out of body at will in the physical sphere as well (of course measures have to be made to protect and keep the vitals got the left body in place, again using some known techniques of Kundalini yoga) it is not recommended as it can turn out to be a daunting task for soul body integration at a later time…..its just like taking an engine out of the car and then putting it back…the calibration will never be the same as the original. The instances are rare but do exist and are well documented. A more famous instance is that of a very well known yogi temporarily leaving his body to his disciples to enter, an about to be dead body (vital signs kept up by the combined soul energies of the disciples) in order to peruse the understanding of a concept during a debate that he could have attained only in a different body.

  104. 263 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Lets keep aside east or west but its nice to know that there are different soul types….and its pretty evident from what we see around us that it pretty much is the fact. LEts all agree to the fact not getting into details as of now. But a more natural question for me would be ….what decides upon some souls having a particular soul type and other a different one? Is it all assigned randomly? I still need to go a long distance before I start to believe that there is something random possible in this universe……everything seems to be governed by a law a rule…..even events termed as accidents even though could be ” surprises” for the soul are governed by discrete laws…. there is no law of probability as probability depends on some discrete calculations…the laws put fort by essense to govern “random accidents or surprises”.

  105. 264 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 4:11 pm

    If someone could help me with my fanatical particularity about spellings be it any language, that I never seem to get right! Could I have been a retarded doctor who killed a few patients due to a misspelled spelling of a medicine? LOLZ. I am crazy about medicines as well to say the least. Barry I would really love to see you incorporating some sort of real time channeling, PLRs modes as well even if paid onto your blog…..it would lead to a more comprehensive pit stop….for wandering souls like me :)

  106. 265 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Or may be I was a patient who got killed due to bad spellings by another doctor……either ways…. :)

  107. 266 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 5:04 pm

    I don’t agree to the fact that souls don’t have a time sense….perhaps their (or rather ours to be precise) sense of time might be different from the physical sense of time but they do seem to have a sense of urgency to be one with es sense. Else it doesn’t make sense for the souls to choose difficult lives to evolve “quicker”! The sense of “proverbial” time is always there if not in physical sense of minutes and seconds but in some spiritual terminology……perhaps the race against the moment before the essence reaches its contracting phase…where the level of evolution for the soul becomes immaterial for an evolving soul….. (complete download from the eastern wisdom)

  108. 267 Andre 25 Nov 2012 at 5:08 pm

    contracting phase is equal to non expanding phase…cont to be confused with soul “contracts”!

  109. 268 Andre 26 Nov 2012 at 2:40 pm

    ASTRAL PROJECTIONS: The term “Astral projection” is a very well devised terminology…..the reasons being the fact that under normal circumstances souls can only “project” and not “eject”. The moment soul “ejects” out of the body, it is physical death. Now of course you can sustain symptoms of life can be sustained virtually on life support systems for eons, but life without a soul is no life at all! Just like you can have highly intelligent feeling AI programs that can defeat a major chunk or real intelligence but then we never get the real feel of life out of AI even though symptoms might be similar.

    In eastern yoga sutra this phenomenon is explained by an example of a bird tied to a pole with a thread….the bird might sit right at the top of the pole or decide to flutter around (project) till the string allows it to…. the moment the thread becomes too weak or the bird turns too desperate to leave the pole , the sting breaks and the bird is set free for ever (ie ejected)….The soul once set free (ejected) is set free even though it was doing all the astral travel (projections) all this while. Ejection is jumping out of the boat and projection is stretching your one foot into water while other is still grounded into the boat.

    The string in the bird is the string of Prana (energy driving the soul). stronger and longer the pranic Channels are, the stronger and deeper are the projections….. but one ejected a and until and unless you have developed some yogic proficiency….its all set free…..even the yogis who are able to master the art of yogic ejections and then manage to return back to the pole….end up with a knot on the string…….

    • 269 Ken Kaplan 26 Nov 2012 at 3:32 pm

      Andre
      I appreciate your deep immersion into Eastern and particularly Hindu writings. but I would encourage you to rely and express from YOUR experiences, not the writings of others. You may be in a place where these writings help form a core of your beliefs and I respect how important they are for you, but it is my life experience that as one awakens, the formation of inner beliefs relies more and more on one’s own contact with these things. All writings to some extent have to be filtered through the mind which is a poor conveyor of things beyond it.

      The writings on this REincarnational subject interest me because intuitionally I have had personal experience which validates it. I stay away from things with certainty I have not had personal experience with. Thus Astral travel is interesting, I believe in it, have friends who do it, but because i have not done it (consciously) i claim no expertise in the area.

      • 270 Andre 26 Nov 2012 at 3:48 pm

        The above was completely my intuitive experience (and not channelization ie someone elses experiences). Pegs can always be put around to substantiate your own experiences…..Thats my mind speaking up out of intuitions substantiated through my realization gathered several DIRECT ex gathered over several past lives….. and not someone else mind through unreliable charlatanism…lets keep aside the bird example mentioned in yoga sutra lets come down to pure logic……! It would be interesting to know that when you use a phrase like direct experience what you actually mean? I hope its not your assumption of assumed challened instances where you are not really having any direct experiences but st getting to know channeled beings iw point?? if at all! Plz tell how much of a truly direct experience you have had…..ie directly with the essence….and we will talk about it…..

  110. 271 Andre 26 Nov 2012 at 3:51 pm

    The one above the above was completely my intuitive experience (and not channelization ie someone elses experiences). Pegs can always be put around to substantiate your own experiences…..Thats my mind speaking up out of intuitions substantiated through my realization gathered over by several DIRECT experiences over several past lives….. and not someone elses mind through unreliable channelism…lets keep aside the bird example mentioned in yoga sutra lets come down to pure logic……! It would be interesting to know that when you use a phrase like “direct experience” what you actually mean? I hope its not your assumption of assumed challenged instances where you are not really having any direct experiences but just getting to know channeled beings point of view?? if at all its not plain schizophrenia! Plz tell how much of a truly direct experience you have had…..ie directly with the essence….and we will talk about it…..

    • 272 Andre 26 Nov 2012 at 4:03 pm

      intuitions rule over channeling as the knowledge from deep within yourself is far profound than the knowledge from out side! Is your soul guide or you guru the essence? No!!!! are you assuming that your guru or your soul guides or entities can never go wrong…..ridiculous…..I trust only the essence and the fact that only he can never go wrong….and I am in the process of reaching him directly and realizing him directly….and not through crutches of supposed channels….PERIOD!

      • 273 Ken Kaplan 26 Nov 2012 at 10:50 pm

        I am sorry if I offended you but I was direct. Perhaps I should have been more discrete. What I experienced was a great deal of referencing of (mostly) Hindu scriptures. I don’t doubt that you have had many genuine intuitive direct encounters with what you term essence. But for example in the astral travel section you did not say or reference something like “from my experiences with Astral travel I have noticed a compatibility with this scripture which defines it as (whatever) and I find an uncanny similarity of expression to the experiences I have had.”

        There were many posts like that where I experienced you referencing texts. This is not to say that you have not had encounters that validated those texts, especially because many of them DO come from very exalted states.

        My own experience however is that anything filtered through the mind (even the teachings here) and language, especially scripture, is difficult to truly reconcile with present day direct experience. I have found very little for example, in any ancient sources, that have the directness of technological elegance of the work being done in certain areas, such as NDE.

        Example. I first encountered the idea of soul contracts, not through reading or talks, but from a Divine Intervention. This was many years before the concept came from other sources. I was walking with a friend in a city park in Center City Philadelphia and he was truly disconsolate because he had a young female friend who had been
        murdered working at a small retain store in the city. Nothing I could say could assauge his grief and shock. Suddenly I was surrounded by a powerful cone of light that entered me and I heard myself saying,”Her death was preordained as a sacrifice and gift to advance the knowledge and experience of the preciousness of life for those around her and were close to her.” There was a peace that pervaded the space around us and embraced both of us, leaping in a sense to him so that he felt it very strongly and viscerally. Immediately he calmed down because the entire event resonated so strongly for him, that it validated the truth coming through.

        This is just one example of direct experience for me in my life. I understand you may have some ire because I do not know you and may have made presumptions that are incorrect. For that I apologize.

        However, just to clarify further, I am experiencing you creating divisions where there are none. Self-Essence-God whatever we choose to call it is one. You have aptly already stated the truth “Thou Art That”. The great reality is there is only one thing that plays itself out in many forms. So in truth, guides, Guru, Angels etc, from my world view are only aspects of me (not from ego perspective) since in truth, the reality of who I already am is everything. There is in truth no separation. That is the job of what I know you know the Hindus called Maya.

        Thus, in my opinion there is no right way to access “essence”. Guru or Angels or whatever are me coming to me because In duality, I play the game of otherness but I am conscious its a useful tool, not the deepest truth.And like you, ultimately, however energy or information comes to me, I must run it through my own internal compass of resonance. Is this true for me or not? In the end we are all the sole arbiter of what we accept or don’t.

        Again, sorry if I offended. Didn’t mean to.

  111. 274 cindy Clark 27 Nov 2012 at 4:17 pm

    I would love to have a bookonthis subjects really beenhelpfil And a blessing tbthankyou

    • 275 barry 27 Nov 2012 at 7:04 pm

      Yes, I think that’s a project I should work on very soon. :-)

  112. 276 Barry 26 Dec 2012 at 4:48 am

    Wow, really loved the article. It may seem odd but feel like a door to a different way of thinking has been opened to me recently. I keep randomly coming across articals like yours that just seem to resonate with me? If that’s the correct way of putting it? Thank you for perspective any how! :-)

    One question though….. What’s the surname of the Barry on the 5th level stage of mature souls with the smiley face after??? I found that at bit odd?!? Just before I saw it I was was just reading through imagining where I may fit in and then saw my name! Haha! Coincidence I’m sure but would still like to know the surname? :-)

    • 277 barry 26 Dec 2012 at 10:19 am

      That’s me – I’m not broadcasting my full name as a courtesy to my employers.

  113. 278 Barry Waterfield 19 Jan 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Essentially there is no reason to doubt this article since we are all energy, and if you can cast your mind back as far as your schooldays you will remember being told that energy cannot be destroyed. The form can alter but the core will remain. So, if our energy remains or blends with the energy of the Universe it’s reasonable to assume that there are various stages of expression.

    Since there are so many Barry’s on this site I am adding my surname, that way my views wont get mixed up with anyone elses. As to the lower case barry with the smiley face at the 5th level of Mature Souls, I too am puzzeled by this. I don’t see how it could have been added by a contributor because the site is looked against such intrusion.

    • 279 barry 19 Jan 2013 at 9:37 pm

      Cheers Barry
      - barry :-)
      (5th level Mature Scholar)

  114. 280 CC 20 Jan 2013 at 6:45 pm

    Could you give another example of an old soul? Since BO is the anti-Christ!

    • 281 barry 20 Jan 2013 at 7:10 pm

      See http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/reincarnation-the-35-steps/stage-5-the-old-soul/ for more info about old souls.
      PS – do you mean Barack Obama? He’s a Mature soul.

      • 282 CC 22 Jan 2013 at 4:01 am

        I did intend to write ‘mature soul’. I also finished the article and found more info. And since your willing to reply and of an obvious liberal bent, I’d like to ask you about a theory I have. I think the liberal and conservative polarity that currently exists in our nation is two sides of the same coin. I actually think these view points are being fostered by self serving news agencies (on both sides). In other words, we all want a better society, we all love our Grandma, we all hope for a better future. I’m theorizing that it is possibly personality differences (MBTI, brain wiring if you will) that give people their perspective. Of course there are socio-cultural influences but my point is, in large part, most people are good people and want good things, we just differ on the path to that end because we of our personality modalities. I tried to be brief so I hope this makes sense.

        • 283 barry 22 Jan 2013 at 9:14 am

          Yes, I certainly agree that – apart from psychopaths and other wilfully antisocial types – no one sets out to be a bad person. As a rule, people do what they think is best. Only, their sense of what is “best” and how it can be achieved will vary according to personality. Other factors will also undoubtedly come into play, such as social background and the prevailing mood of the country/world.

          Take the Attitudes, for example. At the risk of over-generalising, one can imagine that Idealists will tend to be attracted to liberalism (“Let’s make a better future for everyone”) and Realists to conservatism (“We already know what works”). But then again, it can always go the other way – an Idealist might see a brighter future for all in the “conservative” ideals of individualism and opportunity, while a Realist might figure that what is already proven to work best is liberal democracy.

          Skeptics and Cynics will no doubt tend to question/dismiss whichever party is in power at the time, even if it is their own.

          As for the Modes, I suspect we are attracted to politicians who appear to share our own Mode. If you have Mode of Passion, for example, you might be drawn to whichever leader seems the most passionate. Likewise for Aggression, Caution, etc…

          Another factor in the mix of course is the level of awareness, or what is referred to here as soul age.

          Baby souls are conservative by nature, and will want to uphold traditional values and law & order. But then a Baby soul who happens to have been brought up to be a “good liberal” in a family of committed liberals will feel a need to uphold that family tradition.

          Young souls are attracted to the polarity itself – one side vs another – and like to be on the winning side. They will actively champion whichever they personally figure out to be the “right” one. They could be drawn either to the more gung-ho competitive style of the Right or to the angry revolutionary style of the Left, depending on their social background and way of thinking.

          Mature souls are liberal by nature in that they feel it makes sense to be all-inclusive, though that can also manifest as simply voting for whichever party is not in power, to give the “outsiders” a fair crack of the whip. They can also be perversely drawn to whichever party or politician is most likely to create emotional conflicts and dramas, as a way to bring unexplored issues to the surface.

          Old souls become less and less interested in polarised debates; they come to sense the deeper synthesis behind any apparent polarity. If they go into politics, it will probably be as a personal challenge to manifest wisdom and compassion, rather than just a case of taking sides or trying to prove a point.

          So yes, I would say that each of us chooses the best we can – the best, that is, according to our current perceptions and personal orientation to life.

          • 284 ken kaplan 22 Jan 2013 at 4:04 pm

            I Happen to agree with this assessment which is also echoed in “Conversations with God”. Most people do their best from their perspective. Sometimes it is hard for me because one of my weaknesses is judgment and I can get easily into an”us vs then” mentality. Its a very human proclivity and very pronounced here in America. Part of the reason,, beyond the :usual suspects” (Media, etc) comes from what a psychic once told me years ago. She said most souls born in America came here at this time to inspect and experience power in all its facets, America being the world’s most powerful nation.

            A good friend of mine also echoed that the polarities of “progressive or liberal” impulse vs conservative energy tend to act as balancing factors for one another.

            From the Soul Development theory, its clear that most of America and the world are filled with baby and young souls. Fundamentalism, which is usually associated with the right, but by no means exclusive to it, is a baby soul phenomenon. In this theory, baby soul’s “detest” mature souls, who tend to be more liberal, because of the presence of ambiguity and the ability to empathize with the view of the “other”. This is anathema to the baby soul.

            Young Souls care less about the rigid lines of baby souls and center more around their own self, and ambition. From my view, Romney is a young soul who got caught in a baby soul game. Romney was a young soul. It was all about him, always. As is Clinton. Neither were highly ideological, such as a Ryan. I don’t think there are that many leftist baby souls around anymore, I think they were far more prevalent in the 30′s, perhaps the 60′s (not the anti war movement which was young-mature soul based) but those who became overly zealous.

            I think a hallmark, unfortunately of “baby souldom” is irrationality. Te Inquisition for example combined a great deal of baby soul rigidness with young soul ambition. No mature soul energy present.

            Recently I got a download that from a higher vantage point, humanity is where “God-Source-whatever” expects it to be. Why would one think a kindergartner should act like a seventh grader. The impression I got was humanity is still rather young and growing, therefore to still expect behavior that is appropriate to its collective age.

            One thing. I agree there should be respect that most people come from a point of view that how they see the world is correct and that they are sincere. That does not make the world view in the best interest of everyone. Hitler also believed he was right in his world view.

            The paradox, as I have come to understand it, is that what ever our own view of what is “best” and the subsequent amount of much of our angst, and clash with one another over much of this is wasted energy. Ultimately the collective desire and manifestation from Source will determine the day as to how things evolve. It is impossible to fight the torrent of the current of history.

            I recommend watching “The American Experience” three part series on the Abolitionists. I have learned a great deal from what they went through about how historical process works, and to accept certain things about the nature of America that were present then, and still present today.

            It is a great lesson in learning to “Love What Is”.

            And yes we all do our best. I believe culture, brain wiring, etc are all secondary to the demand of the soul as it creates the incarnation.

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  116. 286 Christi 28 Jan 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I just lost my very special tabi cat. To the point it seems weird to call her just a cat. Everyone who knew her could tell she was special. Deep, loving, connected, selfless. I called her Dohjo (dojo) because she felt like the place I would go to find my chi, right from birth. The other names I’d considered were Buda and He. Not really knowing why. I am spiritual not religious. All my “knowing” comes from what I feel not what I’ve been told. The loss of such a magical being and soul mate is astronomical to me. I keep feeling this nagging concern because as of yet, I don’t feel her around? I’m catching myself worry that she is now out there, possibly in another physical form already and I can’t protect her. Whether a human or animal, she may get hurt now. Has anyone thought of this and I know I need to accept it but she deserves so much more than the average life. Lets say she was at the final stage, then what?

    • 287 barry 29 Jan 2013 at 8:00 am

      Hi Christi

      I really get your love and concern. I personally don’t know what has become of the consciousness and life force of the being who lived with you as your cat, but a couple of things come to mind. One is that you were probably meant to have that relationship, in that you chose to have it in your life plan — probably also with the knowing that, like all things in the world of form, it would not last. Perhaps her mission in life is to bless human lives with love in the same way as she did with you, and perhaps she is already lining up to be with her next beneficiary. It is also possible that “she” is now embarking on the human journey, if that is her choice. Either way, her safety and well-being are no longer your responsibility. The soul knows what it is doing.

      It is actually pretty unlikely she would have returned to form already, and though it is impossible for me to guess where, when or in what form the next incarnation might be, I think I can safely predict that when your time comes to return Home she will be there to greet you.

    • 288 ken kaplan 29 Jan 2013 at 10:48 pm

      Christi,

      There is a special section in Robert Schwartz’s second book on Soul Contracts, “Your Soul’s Gift” that focuses exclusively on animals and pets. In addition at my “New Age Church” we have an extraordinary animal communicator. The consensus I have found is animals (and higher plants) have souls and contracts and cross over to the other side. It may be that lower animal forms such as insects have group souls.

      Animals that choose to live with humans as pets do so as part a contract and desire to be with us. Most likely they have been with us before. They have their specific soul needs as well as relationship needs with us. Usually a loving pet is here to help us in our journey as well as to experience the love that is there also.

      Whether your cat is going on to human form is up for discussion as I have heard many theories about transmigration. In Your Soul’s Gift the information was animals aren’t too keen on human incarnation as the extremes of emotion and duality are rather unpleasant for them. But who really knows?

      I agree with Barry it is probably a little soon for your cat to come back. Often they come back to us in another animal form (another cat perhaps) with eerily similar qualities. Your cat is probably around but your emotion may be blocking her out. They visit quite a bit. If they don’t incarnate with us again before we die, they meet us on the other side.

      I wouldn’t worry about your cat being unprotected. Her soul and Source energy knows exactly what she needs.

      Sorry for your loss. My beloved cat of 14 years he was 17) died three years ago and I grieved more for him than both parents combined. I can feel him occasionally. He was present in this communication.

  117. 289 barry waterfield 29 Jan 2013 at 8:56 pm

    This is complicated because I am replying to a reply from my namesake, so I shall mark the distinction by saying I am Barry W or Barry Waterfield.

    I found Barry’s reply most interesting and I have to say that it largely harmonises with my own views

    Essentially we are all energy and that energy has to go somewhere. I don’t think anybody knows for sure what happens in the next world, there is an old saying,to the effect ” there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio”’and that I believe to be true. I also believe in helper souls and I think these can appear in any form. In the same way I think there people that are born to serve one major purpose. I myself feel pretty certain that I was not intended to live beyond fifteen, the age at which I caught a fatal illness. Somehow I survived but there has been little left for me to do since that time. I seem to have been provided for but not included if that makes sense. I’m pretty sure my purpose was to bring my parents a particular learning experience which I did but I also think I should have died at that point. That was the end of my task if you like.However medical science saved me, leaving me feeling like an actor with no script and no part to play, and I have felt this way since that time. I should be interested to hear other views.

    • 290 barry 29 Jan 2013 at 10:28 pm

      Well, that makes sense to me. In my own lifetime I have come up to two or three “exit opportunities” which I’m pretty sure were laid out in my plan before I was born. By that I mean that I have faced death, and could have gone with it, but have chosen to live.

      One was when my wife and I were expecting our child. I developed a “mystery illness” which could have killed me – it was preventing me from breathing, slowly choking me to death. I got that at some level it had to do with fearing that I would be an incompetent parent. I remember spending many sleepless nights on the brink, knowing that i could succumb if I wanted to, but choosing to live.

      It sounds like in your case you planned primarily to reach one exit point and then exit. But choice always overrides pre-planning – or as they say in the army, no plan survives contact with the enemy. So here you are … possibly with an unplanned life ahead. The question is, what will you choose to do with it? (And there is no right or wrong answer.)

    • 291 ken kaplan 30 Jan 2013 at 8:51 am

      Barry,

      My experience is twofold: that it is sometimes not in our best interest to presume we know completely our purpose here (our contract), and second, I do think we now know much more of what happens when we pass on. There are too many congruences between thousands of NDE, mystical fusions with Universal Consciousness and LBL hypnotherapy regression sessions as recorded in books such a Journey of Souls. Although I would agree that language is a very poor substitute for experience, these accounts give us a good sense of a composite as to what happens when we die. So for example the idea of “soul”. We tend to think in terms of individualized identity as we have it here, but what it is (as Barry alluded to as a collective) may be vaster. But it seems to me the preponderance of evidence suggests some form of eternal individuated continuation, up to a point, where such individuation is not necessary.

      But even that is not certain. I read in Sedona magazine once a channeling from a “Goddess” energy that said “why did you feel it necessary to pull me out of Nirvana after thousands of years”?’ Most interesting. The idea that merging into singularity yet retaining potentiality of individuation is fascinating. However, this is at really high levels. From almost all mediumship, survival in some form of identity appears pretty inviolable. my own medium experiences tell me that when people die, they merge back into their essence of love, even at “lower realm” soul levels. Even abusers lose their earthly abusive identity and come across as extremely loving and aware.

      As to your life. I agree with the potentiality that you may have fulfilled a primary contract. My suggestion, however, is the Universe is not random. My sense is that things run on probability lines, like the physics uncertainty principle, and if one probability does not manifest, others will surface.

      If you are still here, my sense is on some level you are meant to be here. If, and this is a very big if, you fulfilled a primary contract, then you are being given a great gift. That gift is what I see as the prime directive for advanced souls, and many others, at this time, the opportunity to advance your union with essence or source. This is no small thing. Times like these are rare. If indeed you are free to pursue your relationship with source energy, take it. And if you have other “contractual” reasons for staying here, in the end its for the same. All sub contracts (personal stuff), imo, are subservient to the prime contract, elevation of consciousness, awakening.

      Either way its a win win because the answers are inside of you and the chance to go deeper is there no matter what. The connection in the physical to the love of the Cosmos at deep levels is, as I suggested, no small thing.

      Often we lose sight of the bigger picture. I know I do, and have to be reminded of this golden opportunity.

      • 292 barry waterfield 30 Jan 2013 at 8:01 pm

        Hello Ken

        I was most interested to read your reply. I take it you are gifted with the power of mediumship. I am actually getting quite old now, I am sixty six, and I have had a happy if uneventful life where I feel there are signs that I have been ”looked after”. I have taken my time up with music, at first performing it and now teaching it.I hope that I responded constructively. Tell me what is your opinion on multi dimensional existence. As one friend put it to me, we may have shared energy in other dimensions. She pondered whether one could die in one dimension yet recover in another. Rather as if the Titanic survived in other dimensions yet sank in ours.

        Barry Waterfield

        • 293 ken kaplan 30 Jan 2013 at 9:26 pm

          Barry,

          I try not to comment on things I have nor personally experienced. i am well aware of parallel or “multiverse” theory. I can’t rule it out. The closest I ever came to some experience of it was a time I totaled a car by swerving and bashing in the front end. A day later I had a very uncanny feeling I had died in another reality.

          I know there are people who have written on this and others who may have had first hand encounters with it. Certainly infinity is big enough to contain playing out all probabilities.

          However, its kind of a credo of mine not to comment on things, as I said, I don’t have first hand knowledge of. That would be in the belief section of things based on the theories. etc of others. Therefore I prefer to be honest as to where my limitations are (when I can see them.)

          For example I am a dream specialist assisting others in interpreting their dreams. But I have no real experience with lucid dreaming. So it would be false of me to expound on it and I don’t deal with it. That would be for someone else with true expertise with the subject..

          • 294 lisarussell1984 05 May 2013 at 5:24 am

            Ken,
            I am fascinated with your responses and have learned much. To read that you interpret dreams feels very synchronistic for me. I had a reikie level 1 attunement last night and then was woken up twice due to the sound of bells in my dream. But I do not remember anything else in my dreams. And my usual vivid dreams have been on hiatus since my dog passed a few days ago. Any interpretation would be wonderful as I feel the bells are important for some reason. Thank you!

  118. 295 CC 30 Jan 2013 at 3:23 am

    Could I renegotiate my willingness to spend the last half of my life alone!

    • 296 ken kaplan 30 Jan 2013 at 8:52 am

      You can do whatever you want.

    • 297 barry 30 Jan 2013 at 9:08 am

      It’s *your* willingness, so why not?! :-)

  119. 298 alec 13 Feb 2013 at 11:49 pm

    I would appreciate if the author of this site corrected the part that says Adolf Hitler was a baby soul he is not he is and old soul, I beleave you are misinformed because you do not know the truth

    • 299 barry 14 Feb 2013 at 7:18 am

      Kindly explain what you mean and how you came by this information.

  120. 300 Shammi.W 15 Feb 2013 at 4:35 am

    The quicker self realization starts to kick in, the quicker the process of knowing what level you are on? I suppose..
    I am only 18 but all this moves me and connects to several questions unanswered. I guess they will be answered as time progresses. Good information though; food for my soul.

  121. 301 Meera 25 Feb 2013 at 8:43 am

    Thanks for an interesting insight. I thought about this today regarding somebody who frustrates me…and wondered how many births they’d have to take. I guess this answered some of questions. I asked and I got.

    I did get a little competitive with this chart…and that would make me mature soul wavering with some young soul in me. :)) And that is okay.

    Part of me feels very grateful for all those lovely things that come my way and make me contented…so, hopefully, when I near my end there will be no aching, craving, yearning or unhealthy attachments. Just happiness, joy, love and gratitude. Even our fluctuations might be a form of karmic testing and growth. But I too have ways to go! I am learning patience…

    Thank you for your work. What an amazing contribution you are making to society. I wish you well.

    I am also proud to see so many in their 20s and 30s so mature. Far more mature than what I was at that age. Good for you all! The world will go forward well…I am optimistic.

    Love to all of you…

    • 302 barry 25 Feb 2013 at 8:45 am

      Thanks Meera
      B

  122. 303 Amit 05 Mar 2013 at 11:13 pm

    In this theory of reincarnation where most major events (including rapes and murders) are supposedly preplaned, isnt there a danger that most of the commoners who understand these concepts mostly on theorotical grounds would start assuming and justifying that if they were involved in a rape, murder etc its all okay, as afterall it was well planned even before they were born. Are we looking at a general acquital, if not atleast empathy even on most dreadful crimes if this theory were to be believed in common day to day world. wont people take it for granted raping a woman or killing a person assuming they are just gettting driven by their souls instincts towards its plan. What happenes to the flavor and fabric of worlds social structure?

    • 304 barry 06 Mar 2013 at 1:20 pm

      Good question. I think the answer is straightforward though: if one has planned to commit a karmic/criminal act, then one has also understood and accepted the almost inevitable legal consequences of such an act – detection, capture and punishment (imprisonment or execution).

      Anyone can TRY to “justify” an act on the grounds that it was pre-planned at a soul level with the victim’s agreement, but in the eyes of the law that’s just the same as trying to justify an act on the grounds that “God told me to do it.” The spiritual level of understanding doesn’t really connect with the level of human society, law, and court proceedings. It isn’t meant to. Human laws aren’t designed to incorporate spiritual insight, but to contain and deal with our anti-social impulses and so make society a generally stable and fair place to live. It’s a different focus entirely.

      We are all free to rape and kill as much or as little as we like. We are not free, however, to ignore the justice systems that are in place in the society at the time, and the consequences that follow a criminal act. As souls, we understand this.

    • 305 ken kaplan 06 Mar 2013 at 5:59 pm

      Good question. To piggyback on Barry’s answer there are other levels at work here, The contract, agreement or intention is made at the Soul level. But the power, force, and intensity of events, relationships, illnesses, etc are meant to be fully felt at the human level. Even for fairly evolved people, issues such as loss or difficulty are not easy, nor are they meant to be. So there is a tension or balance between the human response and the multidimensional understanding. In “Home with God” by Neale Donald Walsch, “God” says, “Never mourn someone’s death, for they are OK. However mourn your loss”.

      It is fairly easy to see Soul dynamics from a distance. I saw a news article about a young man who was the sports hero and the absolute center of the town’s focus somewhere in the Midwest. He collapsed and died of a heart attack on the basketball court after winning a playoff game enroute to the state championship tournament. The town was in complete shock and grief. For me, having distance, I could see clearly the contract at work, that the residents had some karmic lesson to learn about value of life and he volunteered to help teach it.

      There are other events that trigger me and I am not so distant, such as the murder of the Gay Mayoral black candidate in the South.

      Contracts are set up expressly for the purpose of growth and ultimately expansion of the heart and deepening of Soul. If one is blase about it, that means one is divorced from an extent from feeling. The Universe, being however a pretty intensely just place does not allow one to maintain that kind of attitude for long.

      The issue of separation, which involves most people in ignorance about these things, at this time invokes strong emotion in general.

      There are religions and people who institutionalize such attitudes as you expressed. Hinduism in particular in its shadow aspect encourages lack of social justice or concern by claiming, “Its just their karma”. Again, life has a way over time of letting the person who feels superior feel the painful end of the stick.

      Enlightened attitudes allow us to see we are responsible for our destiny, to accept our power of creation, and to graciously acknowledge the gift in these self created situations.

      However being human at any level is not easy. Usually we feel these things in hindsight. When we go through them, they most often are pretty unpleasant (to say the least.) Human experience, as I said, is meant to be felt very deeply. There’s no getting around it.

      So whoever holds a belief that is cavalier in this respect doesn’t get to hold it for long. And if they get away with it for a few lives, their guides will make sure it doesn’t continue.

      I’m sure, with all his wisdom. the Dalai Lama grieved for Tibet.

  123. 306 Amit 08 Mar 2013 at 11:54 pm

    Nice insight….but I still have a question……In the end the purpose of entire evolutionary process is to understand that its “not good” to rape or murder as it is against the evolutionary principle of “universal unconditional love”. The end message is that how can you rape and murder when you are practicing unconditional love. The lessons planned for rapes and murder can be to realize this basic concept. Rest even if souls are aware of the legal consequences there are several instances when these crimes never get caught. What happens then…..where’s the pay out….where’s the un-entanglement factor…

    The traditional Karmic laws define positive and negative karmas….as per various religious texts. And they don’t define being raped and being murder as a result of previous karmas…though they define the act of raping and murdering as negative karma and hence a consequence (imprisonment or death sentence).

    My question is…lets assume I raped a woman and then killed her but never got caught……now should I feel free that it was all pre-planed and I bear no burden of it….or should I wait as per traditional karma theory (as well mentioned in Hinduism and subtly in all the religions) for the consequences of my karma be it getting caught sometime later or having a bad time in life in general as per the conversion factor of traditional karmic theory that makes more sense?

    • 307 ken kaplan 09 Mar 2013 at 5:49 am

      You ask a number of questions

      1) In the end the purpose of entire evolutionary process is to understand that its “not good” to rape or murder as it is against the evolutionary principle of “universal unconditional love”.

      I would not state it this way. The evolutionary process is not a mental construct, a belief, or a conceptualization. These are human logical mind terms and thoughts. The evolutionary process is a long journey into separation. and reunion and awakening to a very deep level beyond the mind as to the true nature of self, that which what one always was. The process expands and illuminates the individuated part and the whole in a manner that was not possible before the journey began.

      2) Rest even if souls are aware of the legal consequences there are several instances when these crimes never get caught. What happens then…..where’s the pay out….where’s the un-entanglement factor…

      Karma is the distributive justice in the Universe which no one can
      escape. It is the continual balancing factor that enables souls to grow because in some fashion the consequences of our actions must be faced. There are no exceptions. If someone appears to “escape” in this life, most likely it was ordained. But they will not escape in the future. This insures that the Universe is just. But from the highest perspective it is not punitive, it is all for love. Divine Consciousness is exploring the height, depth and width of the human experience. It has to, Therefore there is no judgment. But growth necessitates karmic consequence.

      3) And they don’t define being raped and being murder as a result of previous karmas.

      They do and they don’t and I would rely less on ancient texts and more on present technological models of consciousness such as “Journey of Souls” by Michael Newton. The back story of issues like this is complex. Sometimes souls are “paying off a debt”. Sometimes they want to experience what it is like., (Really) There are many interfaces as to how situations and events come together. Its not simple and linear as we would like to think.

      4) My question is…lets assume I raped a woman and then killed her but never got caught……now should I feel free that it was all pre-planed and I bear no burden of it….or should I wait as per traditional karma theory (as well mentioned in Hinduism and subtly in all the religions) for the consequences of my karma be it getting caught sometime later or having a bad time in life in general as per the conversion factor of traditional karmic theory that makes more sense?

      The likelihood that you would rape and murder someone and be awakened enough to really be in tune with these principles would be the most extreme of rarities and most unlikely. Again these are not just mental constructs. The more one advances, the more one is in tune with and in alignment with one’s essence, which is love. Therefore, the propensity or inclination for such acts would not be part of one’s makeup. Acts like rape and murder are usually the province of more immature souls who still are enamored and contained within the constructs of intense ego based needs, thoughts, and desires. Such people do not believe in these types of systems such as contracts and karma. And if they believe they are laughing at karma to its face, they are sadly mistaken. The power of distributive justice can wake the soul up jarringly. Ouch. I won’t do that again.

      An unusual exception would be like Krishna’s admonition to Arjuna in the Gita to rise and do his duty dispassionately, even though it is a war and he must kill.

      Again, people at this level don’t think in these terms, and if by chance they do, they know in some manner there is no escaping the consequences of their actions, however that manifests.

      How many people do you know who have had lots of extremely difficult circumstances in their lives and curse God for abandoning them or that life is unfair? Where do you think those circumstances originated from? Isn’t fun or easy, is it? Karma’s a bitch , as the saying goes, if it fits.

    • 308 barry 09 Mar 2013 at 9:56 am

      Don’t think I can add anything to Ken’s great answer, except a small footnote. In these Michael teachings, several types of negative karma are identified: murder, rape, dismemberment, incarceration, deliberate neglect, and ‘mind-fuck’ (psychological manipulation). A karmic act is one that alters another’s life without their prior agreement, in a negative way in the case of negative karma, ie deliberately violating their wellbeing or freedom. Positive karma is any unplanned act that enhances another’s wellbeing or freedom.

  124. 309 Amit 09 Mar 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Nice…..I am sobered by the replies…. :)

  125. 310 Amit 09 Mar 2013 at 1:39 pm

    My next question is on the age old battle of vegetarianism and non vegetarianism…..Do we incur karma by killing and eating animals….? Is it right to kill animals for food….?

    • 311 barry 09 Mar 2013 at 5:37 pm

      To deliberately kill an animal for the pleasure of watching it suffer might be karmic. But as far as I can gather it’s neither right nor wrong to kill animals for food; it’s just how the physical plane works, how matter and energy get recycled from one body to another. The spirit working through animals knows this.

      We always have choice in eating or not eating meat, as we do with any other kind of action, and if we do eat meat then we also have choice in how we – individually or as a society – obtain our meat: ethically and humanely, or ruthlessly and inhumanely. As we evolve over lifetimes, we gradually come to consider the integrity of everything we do, and ensure that our choices and actions are consistent with our evolving principles, values and insights.

  126. 312 ken kaplan 09 Mar 2013 at 5:21 pm

    I can only give the answer to which I have had experience. My Guru channeled through a friend after he died once a month for 6 years. The experience was off the charts. In life, he advised us to be vegetarian for our own growth reasons, not for karmic violation. In the channeled state he said it was not a karmic violation and vegetarianism was not a prerequisite for spiritual growth. He did say it helps to thank the animal or fish for sustaining us before we eat it.

    This is a predator -prey planet. I think animals understand when they incarnate the situation here. My only issue, and I violate my own beliefs, is about factory farming which is terrible to animals. We all have our contradictions.

    I have had most channels confirm my Guru’s channeled message. At this time there appears to be no major karmic debt from meat eating.

  127. 313 Gina 14 Mar 2013 at 12:58 pm

    I’m not 100% sure of anything when it comes to the afterlife, and am open-minded to many beliefs. I am open to the idea of reincarnation, and have researched a bit. I think that many people who find themselves here are mature souls because they’re the ones who reflect on these matters and are in a constant search to find themselves. Even though I’ve been called an old soul since I was 12, (I’m 27 now), I myself fit well in the description of a mature soul, probably somewhere between the creative and expressive step, and the step where I will teach those who have the ears for it.

    After reading all this here, my mind keeps going back to one thing, but l have to explain a bit more about myself before I explain what my hangup is:

    There’s a couple things I believe very strongly in, the main one being that Love is, for lack of a better phrase, the most important thing in the universe, and another is that everyone and everything is connected. My capacity for love is (so-far) unmatched in my experiences with others. At certain times I feel my soul beam out of my chest, like rays of light shooting out from within me, and energy come out the tips of my fingers, like lightening, that makes me feel like I am touching a tree from 30 feet away, and my forehead can feel like I can send anyone I have a close bond with a message from miles away. When you describe the souls as they are in-between lives, with their soul groups, as blobs of energy connected to all and love in all, I feel like I can fully fathom it. I haven’t had any lessons in spirituality and haven’t done any meditation or yoga, I’m just capable, I don’t know why I am either. My goal in life, what I’m striving for, is to experience the highest level of pure love I am capable of.

    So this is my hangup: If the purpose of my soul is to be in physical form to evolve as an individual, then why in my lifetime has my path been in finding out how connected we are and how big pure love really is and what it feels like? Aren’t I defeating the purpose of living this life if my souls goal is to experience individual and separated experiences and I’m here trying to feel the love and connection to the highest of my ability and capacity? Furthermore, wouldn’t ‘knowing’ what my souls intentions are for this lifetime also get in the way of the learning process, since therefore many experiences will be experienced in a more detached or apathetic way? Like it turns your life into a movie, (best analogy I can think of).

    Your thoughts?

    • 314 barry 14 Mar 2013 at 3:05 pm

      Hi Gina

      Great to hear from you. What a fantastic capacity for love!

      First, you might want to see if you resonate with the Goal of Acceptance (one of the seven possible life goals) http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/the-michael-teachings/goal/acceptance/. Those with this goal come into life with the aim of giving and receiving love – however they understand love to be, according to their level of evolution. A baby soul with the goal of Acceptance, for example, will probably be wanting to feel accepted (assimilated) into the community, and – being in terror of community rejection – may become rather ingratiating. A young soul, on the other hand, will want to enjoy individual recognition, approval, and acknowledgement, and might do so through maximising their personal attractiveness. With mature souls, and their emerging awareness that self and other are equivalent, the giving starts to become at least as important as the receiving, so they will be seeking opportunities to express as well as experience acceptance in the form of sincere mutual understanding and support. With old souls the emphasis is heading towards unconditional love and compassion.

      So to answer one of your questions, expressing your soul’s innate capacity for love isn’t a contradiction of the purpose of incarnation; one of the reasons why we are here is precisely to discover and convey love *through* the illusion of separateness. Or as it says in Emmanuel’s Book, “to bring love into a place where love seems not to be,” despite our soul’s knowledge that separation is indeed an illusion and that in truth love is all there is. It’s about turning a universal truth into a personal fact, an individual realisation.

      At 27 you are, from the soul perspective, still “in training” for your life task which presumably will kick off in the next 10 or 15 years. My guess is that your life task may be about being an inspiration to others (might you be a Priest soul?). It’s possible that you are discovering all about love and connectedness now so that you can teach it with the wisdom of direct experience later on.

      Is it “cheating” to know your soul’s purpose and life plan? No, it just means that you are wising up to the game of life, and are now at a level at which you can treat your life situations and experiences with a bit more detachment, and approach the whole thing a bit more consciously. And after all, the learning of this spiritual knowledge at a certain point in your life was presumably part of your life plan!

      There is no reason why having such insight should lead one to go into a state of apathetic withdrawal. If anything, it makes the game even more interesting. You can experiment with making things happen consciously (manifestation), rather than just waiting to see what your life plan has in store. And again, this won’t be a contradiction of your life plan – it will be factored in.

      To use the movie analogy: as children, we think that all the characters and events in a story are real – when Bambi’s mother gets killed, we feel upset. As adults, we know that a story is just a story, yet that doesn’t stop us from wanting to watch movies. Instead, we become more selective about what movies we watch; we develop preferences for certain genres or directors; we might even get into making movies. The whole movie experience is still worthwhile. We just enjoy it in a much more sophisticated way – and we can still cry when Bambi’s mother dies!

      Similarly in human life, knowing that it’s a “setup” doesn’t mean that we watch everything remotely without any involvement. For example, if your best friend is killed in a hit-and-run, the emotions you feel will be perfectly real and appropriate. If the understanding that it was “meant to happen” as part of some life plan reduces the emotional impact and makes the loss spiritually meaningful and easier to accept, then fine. If it doesn’t, then so be it. We are where we are, and wherever we happen to be is perfect.

      • 315 Gina 14 Mar 2013 at 10:19 pm

        I am so grateful to you for such a quick reply!

        You’ve surely dulled any thoughts I was having about ‘knowing’ your soul path, thank you. You’ve also shown me how being here with Love as a goal isn’t contradictory but a challenge. “It’s about turning a universal truth into a personal fact, an individual realisation.” I Love that, among other things you said and quoted.

        Ok, I’ve spent the entire day on this site now haha and I’m a bit lost when it comes to pinpointing where I fit, as would be expected as I’m just diving in on the subject of reincarnation.

        Although, I should say, I have been pondering the “What Am I” question for about a year now. I had a beautiful, euphoric, epiphany when I was 22, after researching some things, throwing out what society has told me I should be and should want, and really looking within and asking myself, at the very core of me, “Who Am I”, and “What Do I Want”. Answers came. I can tell you I’ve been so much more happy since then. I had been suffering from such inner-conflict about the Feminist attitudes I had been brainwashed with and came to the conclusion that being feminine and submissive to my man is who I truly am, that I seek to be submissive to a man I love, that I feel most fulfilled and happiest when I feel the yin-yang of dominance-submission, masculine-feminine energy flowing in a figure-8 around my man and I, filling us with love, joy, connectedness, wholeness. Not in an inferior way either. The man I choose to submit to is not superior to me, we are “equal”, just in different ways. Competition replaced with complimenting each other. What happened is I accepted myself, embraced my femininity, and truly came to love myself and see how I wanted to show/give my love, and saw how that is what I wanted most out of life, forgoing my many other talents, gifts, and skills that was leading to great things in the career path.

        Based on that, it would seem my Soul Goal is “Submission”, yet I feel that my goal is traveling an infinite road of Love, and Submission is merely the vehicle that drives me. Submission brings me to a place of selfless euphoria drenching my Dom in my love.

        After reading the Soul Goal “Acceptance”, although much of it did resonate with me, none of the negative sides of it are things I struggle with, ever. It seemed there was much emphasis on accepting other people in order to get to “unconditional love” whereas I feel I’ve always had that capability within me and reach beyond. And I wish to take someone with me. That’s the hard part. I can see the limitations long-term boyfriends in the past have when it comes to love. To them, they love me at their absolute fullest, they simply lack the capacity or skills to love me any more purely so. This doesn’t make me feel rejected, or unloved, it makes me feel like showing them the way by words and example, even if I know they won’t get all the way to the level I am currently capable of, I see them grow a level or two up over time, and it’s beautiful. The type of negative feelings I get on the subject is feeling ‘alone’, saddened I haven’t met anyone else like me to share such a bond with… which usually consists of me sobbing in extreme emotional pain, because I have so much to give and no one who is capable of receiving it all, which leads me to go on a walk so that my self-pity turns into pondering, ‘why, why am I so much more able, why was I given such a beautiful gift that I can’t give fully to others? Which is what leads me to ‘What Am I?’ and now I’m here.

        Out of the seven soul types, I resonate with all but 1, King. I feel very strongly that I have nearly all of the other traits listed, short of a few. Second least being Warrior, since I only relate to Loyalty and Dedication and not the other traits listed for Warrior. Artisan seems to be the one the most, on quiz and facial features, which makes sense, but it seems like the old me not who I am today. Before my epiphany at 22, I had originally intended on being a singer. Though not for the fame – My dream was to help others by giving them songs they could relate to; Write a song, giving them the words they couldn’t find themselves, and sing it with such compassion that it reached their soul and relieved them. I sacrificed this dream for my new dream. Career, Fame, paparazzi, none of that fit into my old dream and certainly not my new dream. I can’t give myself body and soul to my future husband and dedicate my time and energy into teaching and nurturing my future children with a career. That said, I resonate with each trait listed for Artisan.

        But it doesn’t go unnoticed that I also resonate with every trait listed for Server, Sage, and Priest as well! With facial features matching! For Scholar I’m only one trait short of matching them all, that trait being “neutral”. I am researching something nearly every day, and have quite the thirst for knowledge, math, science, philosophy, etc. I suppose after reading this here, it’s no wonder why people say I look so different from picture to picture of me. I understand people can have secondary soul types, and maybe even 3, but 5 to 6 out of 7? What am I?!

        I feel I got some questions answered yet more popped up. I feel a little more lost than when I came here, perhaps because I was so hopeful there’d be something here to describe what I am, but then I found myself fitting into such a wide variety, it makes me feel like I’m something else altogether, like there simply isn’t a category for me here. There’s still much more time before I reach my What Am I epiphany, and oh what a glorious time that will be.

        • 316 ken kaplan 14 Mar 2013 at 10:43 pm

          Gina,

          I want to piggy back on Barry’s excellent rely. First, if you think you’re “cooked”, you aren’t. If there wasn’t experiences to be had, lessons to learn, you wouldn’t be here.My perspective is you are pretty advanced, few people display at a young age the kinds of abilities you share. So I think there are two over riding Soul purposes for you. Like many of us, you came to serve humanity, the Earth, the Source. But in order to do that there is some growing to do. My sense is that for you integration of the transcendent part with the Earthly, human part in balance is a big one. There is an expansion happening that is both individual and collective. Profound integration of energies is a huge part of it.

          Second, I’m going yo advise you to not be quite as concerned intellectually with “where you are” in this scheme. Its useful but its also mind stuff. My experience, and I teach this, is that we create Soul contracts and agreements before we came in. So you already have set for yourself your agenda and you have ac team of guides all around you. They probably led you to this site.

          I think the only thing you really need to know is you are pretty developed and how you deepen your connection to your center authentically at this point is the real crux of things. At 27 you may think you know a great deal about yourself, but in ten years you will look back and say “who was that person”.

          Once things are set in motion, there is a flow that you are a part of. As long as you sincerely attend and enhance your ability to hear, feel the inner guidance and learn to discern and be receptive, things develop of their own accord.

          You ask , “Who am i”. Beyond all identity, you are everything, disguised in this life as Gina. The real you, your Soul-Spirit which is one with all that is has an agenda and is the true doer. This does not negate individuation, it enhances it as Barry suggested. Once you anchor even more the truth f your being, the role you assigned yourself in this life will become clearer and easier.

          So don’t get caught in the mind’s spider web of all these levels, etc. The ego loves that stuff and beyond getting a sense of where you’re at and playing with it a little (I love the celebrities who embody different phases and it helps to understand the political and cultural landscape better so as to not get as enmeshed), it can get confusing.

          You’re moving along quite well. You as God I think have things well in hand. Enjoy.

          • 317 ken kaplan 14 Mar 2013 at 10:45 pm

            Sorry for the typos. I need to proof read more.

          • 318 Gina 26 Mar 2013 at 10:05 pm

            Thanks Ken. I should explain a little further… I know who I am and what I want now, those questions were answered in my epiphany at 22. The question of “What” am I, has to do with, (how do I explain something I am still confused about lol) what I am in relation to the universe and everyone around me. As I’ve said, I strongly believe we are all connected, and I’m trying to figure out what I’m meant to bring to it or do for it. A physical symptom brings more urgency and seriousness to it, which I’ll get to later.

            I’m not perfect, but I am very blessed. The biggest and best of it all is being blessed with my large capacity for, and understanding of, Love. I’ve already described all that.

            Please, I’m not telling you in a conceited way, it’s just a clear observation, which has caused inner conflict and wonder:

            1. I’m very talented, intelligent, compassionate, beautiful, this list goes on and on, I am SO blessed I lack direction because I am good at mostly anything I try. I was hung up on the traits thing because it’s been noticeable for some time now that I have a heck of a lot more traits than the average bear, I’m much more complex, to the point of setting me apart. This makes me wonder if my journey here is more special or more purposeful if I was made this way. So, not that I am special, but that this journey, this life experience, is special. Perhaps every soul gets this special journey, I don’t know, I have no idea, it’s just apparent I’m apart. Not apart in my connection to everyone and everything, apart as in, not the regular life experience, like, I may feel apart from other individuals when I think about this stuff, but actually feel more connected to the universe in the same moment. Like, being the only sober person in a room full of drunk people. It’s like I can see how they aren’t connected, (hard to explain and I’m starting to get off topic so I’ll leave it at that, do you get it?).

            After pondering this thought for a while, and seeing how I affect people, sometimes I conclude that maybe I’m here to help everyone else, and that this life isn’t actually meant to help me grow as much as it is meant to assist in others growth. But I really know nothing as truth, and my mind can change from one context to the next. My thoughts are really just combining feelings and experiences and looking for a pattern to make sense of it all. Maybe I’m this 7th stage I’ve seen spoken of here, “a re-integrated collective consciousness, a ‘causal body’, comprising all souls from our larger grouping of origin, or what Michael calls ‘entity’.”

            2. My luck is out of this world, literally, it’s like the universe touches me. I wonder how I can give back. Yes there have been bad experiences and people taking advantage of me or being cruel, but overall I feel so blessed. I feel like I wouldn’t be given all this if there wasn’t a reason, a way in which I am to give back. Why am I set up so amazingly, not just the qualities within myself, but also the physical things of this world? I am in this very blessed position where I am fully provided for by those who love me, without asking, and only work when either someone needs my help or I think it will be fun, because I don’t really need money. It really just turned out that way for me, luck is what people say. (The same fortunes aren’t even true for my own siblings). I’m not living off the land or anything, I live like an average american in terms of how big my home is or how many things I have, but I’m not very materialistic, things are just given to me without even wanting or asking. I rarely have money and rarely need money. Kind of like how a housewife without children is provided for and has a lot of time on her hands, but I’m not a housewife.

            Most of my time and energies go into relationships; serving my man and developing our relationship, helping family and friends, helping strangers – but I guess with strangers it’s more about helping than the actual relationship with them – and then creativity and research. To your average housewife that’d be more than enough to feel productive without holding a job. It’s not to me though. I’m not doing enough. Getting a 9-5 job won’t fix it either.

            The point of telling you all of this is to show you why I feel the need to know what I am because I feel like I’m supposed to be doing something that I’m not already doing. It’s like the stage has been set. I think it starts with figuring out What I am. The rush or pressure is due to coming down with hives 6 months ago. Hives are an allergic reaction, yet I have no allergies (I’ve been seen by multiple doctors including an allergist). They won’t go away and are tamed by daily meds, the doctors have no answers or solutions.

            I think I may be doing something wrong, on the wrong path maybe, or perhaps my hands have been idle or ‘absent better purpose’ for too long. I feel the hives is most likely a spiritual problem and therefore only corrected spiritually. This is why I came off overly concerned and like I’m rushing things that should come more naturally.

            It is “mind stuff” as you say, and it can make me feel self-absorbed when I spend too much time thinking about it, but it’s hard to ignore when a physical symptom is right there and won’t leave. The hives make me think something’s not right about what I’ve been doing when I have thought and still feel the path I’ve been on is the right one. So I guess I have a lot more to learn, and would prefer it to be sooner rather than later, hives suck lol.

            Maybe I’m wrong and these hives have absolutely nothing to do with spirituality or anything psychological at all. I’m just going on a feeling here, and it’s not like the doctors have answers.

            I’ve noticed how a lot of times a physical illness has to show up in order for the spiritual problem to be acknowledged and addressed. Just think of all those NDE stories, a link on this site brought me to.

            Which was very interesting to watch by the way. This is just a side based on my post about Love – I found that, for whatever reason, I already instinctually know what these people were only able to learn through a near death experience. I keep asking myself Why I already know what the NDEers say they learned, and don’t know the answer. It’s wrapped into the “what am I” question.

            Well, thanks for listening, ugh I went off in so many directions, I have too much to explain and too much to learn, I’ll give my mind a rest now. This would be so much easier talking in person. Any thoughts are welcome. A retreat seems to be the answer.

            • 319 ken kaplan 27 Mar 2013 at 5:48 am

              Gina,

              Its late. A few things. There is no luck, EVERYTHING is related to essence to spirituality. As Abraham says it all begins with vibration. Then resonates out. Your hives could be for a number of reasons. Louise Hat says they are about fretting over small things. Your body could be struggling with being compatible with your energy. My sense is there is some significant irritation in your soul, the mirror of “what am I”.

              Metaphors are valuable. Hives are a form of a rash. “What is itching at me?” “Where is the itch I can’t scratch?”

              One exercise I would suggest is view your hives in a “Gestalt” manner. Journal and let them speak, as if it were a dream. Let the wisdom of your body guide you.

              Hives are often connected to the nervous system and anxiety. I feel sometimes your impatience, the desire to “figure it out, NOW.”

              Barry had a good point. You’re only 27. I didn’t start coming into myself until I was 42. So I always say, as Abraham does, look to alignment with center first. Or as Jesus said.”Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven, all these others will be added unto you.”

              Your destiny awaits you on the road. You don’t have to pus the river. Perhaps this is part of the soul lesson you signed up for.

              You say it all looks perfect. Maybe, maybe not. The way things evolve may look different than the mind conceives.

              The God part of you is far more in control than you think. Try to sink into that. Immerse yourself, as Barry suggested, in Source energy. This allows intuition to further develop and guides to lead more easily. Things get clearer. Patience. Then the hives will go as they have served their purpose.

              • 320 Gina 28 Mar 2013 at 11:35 pm

                Thanks for caring enough to listen and respond, I greatly appreciate your efforts to help and teach me. You seem very confident in your beliefs and very wise, so I’m grateful to have your guidance.

                I’m kind of laughing about the “Luck” thing lol. I use the word luck because there’s no other word to explain what Looks like luck. To me, it feels like the universe is touching me, like I can feel this live presence all around, like a large crowd, but not human, and they all know each other, and I’m a part of it, except I’m grounded to the earth and they’re not, and there’s no word for that. It’s funny because people who don’t believe in luck, completely change their mind after spending a lot of time with me. They perceive it as luck anyway. I’m not sure what you mean by “essence to spirituality”. I kinda get the vibrations thing, maybe. I remember watching a video about it and looking into it. I can’t remember it all but it said there were different ways to raise your frequency or vibration and a couple of them were: laughing, singing, dancing, and eating might have been one. I remember thinking about how I do a lot of those pretty regularly. Is this what you were talking about here?

                I want to do everything you said, and don’t know how. I’ve looked into spirit guides and meditation from time to time, and I think I’ll dive back in it now due to your suggestions.

                I have pondered a lot about the hives. I’ve done as you said, asked myself lots of questions including, ‘what’s itching me’ and lots of others. I’ll do things ‘close’ to meditation, like, put in earplugs, focus on breathing, relax my whole body, and try to let answers come. I really try to get to the root of it. I’ll ask ‘them’ to show me in my dreams before I go to sleep at night.

                I was trying to avoid writing about this because I didn’t intend for my posts to turn into relationship stuff that often times people don’t want to get into, but I keep going back to this one idea that I think is the reason for the onset of the hives, so if you want to listen, here it is: there was a metaphorical slap in the face and complete disrespect for Love itself committed by my boyfriend unto me. His actions and feelings went against everything I stand for, everything I’m striving for. To put it briefly, we had a bad fight. It broke me. I had no money, no phone, no car, and I was 5 hours from home. I considered going to a woman’s shelter. I thought, ‘How could I let myself devote myself to and trust another when this is what can happen? How could I put myself in a position where one minute I have everything and the next minute I have nothing? How could I have chosen to put all my time and energies into a relationship that just ended and therefore wasted? How can I be a sub to a dom and still protect myself?’ He ended up finding me and we talked for a long time and we went home together. I was so upset about it I escaped through video games for a couple days to give my mind a rest, which is when the hives started. I don’t think the answer is to break up with him, because it would be better to help him, help him learn how to love, give our love for each other another chance, and that’s what I chose to do. So why else would the hives still be here? How could it be wrong to make that choice, when the choice is pro-Love and Love is what I’m all about? Unless my path of love isn’t my right path? But how couldn’t it be when it feels so right?

                • 321 ken kaplan 29 Mar 2013 at 4:01 am

                  Your body may be wiser than your ego-mind. It sounds like you experienced a trauma and suppressed it. How you deal with your relationship is your choice but I am concerned about a few things. The “sub-dom” issue makes me very uncomfortable. As is your desire to “help him learn to love”. Healthy relationships are equal partnerships and dominance and control are not major players. Plus in good relationships, one doesn’t abuse the other, which it looks like he did.

                  In courageously sharing this you may be revealing part of your personal karma, which is reclamation of your power and balancing this out. He may be a teacher for you in this.

                  You can’t command your body. It feels to me like the hives are a PTSD reaction. You don’t feel safe.

                  It looks like the Universe is asking you to look deeply within on this. I think its fairly serious business on the human level and we can’t get out of these things easily. Deep lessons are tough.

        • 322 barry 14 Mar 2013 at 11:25 pm

          Well, Gina, it sounds like you could do with another epiphany! Enough with all this talk of traits – go for directly experiencing the absolute essence of your being.

          And to that end I would recommend – if this is possible for you geographically – taking a 3-day Enlightenment Intensive, or several, and then maybe a longer 2-week Enlightenment Intensive as well. It’s a group retreat process in which you spend the whole time contemplating a question like Who am I? or What am I?, and also expressing whatever you experience to others in the group. The communication aspect accelerates the inner changes that would otherwise take months or years if you we’re sitting alone in a cave, making an epiphany – Kensho, Satori, Enlightenment, the direct experience of absoluteTruth – more possible in a fairly short period. The longer the process, the deeper the experiences go.

          You can read about the process and some of my experiences here:

          http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/enlightenment-intensives/

          http://personalityspirituality.net/articles/2009/04/28/my-first-enlightenment-intensive/

          There are some other articles here:
          http://lawrencenoyes.com/html/articles.html

          There are several people running them in USA, Canada, Europe, Australia and India. My wife and I run them in the UK:
          http://www.enlightenment-intensives.info/
          (… this isn’t a sales pitch by the way!)
          Our lives have been totally transformed – not just by our own self-realisation experiences but also by the process itself, which is a huge lesson in authentic being and relating. For one thing, I learned through the process how to both give and receive love profoundly and purely, without even words or physical contact coming into it.

          • 323 Gina 26 Mar 2013 at 6:17 pm

            Thanks for the links. I loved reading about your journey and your bite of lettuce epiphany (haha). I think you’re exactly right. A retreat sounds like the perfect idea for me right now. I’ve been talking with my boyfriend about all this and suggested the retreat to him. We’re planning on saving money and researching to see which one we’ll want to do. He feels he’s on the edge of an epiphany as well. He says it’s due to me, very flattering. He’s also turning 35 this year, so perfect timing for him. He apparently used to be very closed and cold before me, a side I haven’t seen of him.

            You said, “I learned through the process how to both give and receive love profoundly and purely, without even words or physical contact coming into it.” When I read that last bit, “without even words or physical contact coming into it” I kinda chuckled, (not AT you btw) it was just funny to me you ever thought words or physical contact was necessary to begin with. This, what you learned, happens to be what my boyfriend is trying to learn. I’ve been trying to teach him, I say things like, “To kick you would be to kick myself”, something you probably understand now. For a long time it was in one ear and out the other, like he knew what I was saying was right and could see where I was coming from, but couldn’t feel the feeling. But he’s starting to realize the meaning behind the words now, to actually feel it, and he’s ecstatic about it! It would make me all warm and fuzzy inside to see him grow like you did in this way, and he’s already halfway there, so I think a retreat would benefit him in this way. I’d just be so happy for him, because it’s a great feeling to have and I’d love him to feel it, too.

            My journey would be a different one, but I’d love to share the experience together with my man. I’m not even sure what exactly my journey would be, other than going with the goal of answering the “What am I” question. I may know more than most about love, but I don’t know everything, and there is much to learn. Thanks for the idea.

  128. 324 M 16 Mar 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Man, I sympathize with your approach, and you may happen to be right, but do you really know what you’re talking about?

    • 325 barry 16 Mar 2013 at 3:38 pm

      *shrug*

    • 326 ken kaplan 16 Mar 2013 at 5:25 pm

      An analogy. You study physics all your life. You begin in school. You go to graduate school. You get a Phd. You begin to work and collaborate with the best minds in the field. You break new ground. You attend myriad conferences where your theories and experiences are put to rigorous examination. You rise to a place where your perception of the arena is one of great expertise born of immense labor, depth of experience, and accumulation of wisdom and knowledge.

      Then a guy who has no knowledge of any of this comes up and says, “Man, I sympathize with your approach, and you may happen to be right, but do you really know what you’re talking about?”

      That’s about where your question is at.

      Remember, a whole slew of scientists thought that Boson-Higgs was nonsense. Who a the last word now?

  129. 327 Amit 19 Mar 2013 at 10:19 am

    @ bary: as you said in an earlier reply about animal killing for food:

    ” To deliberately kill an animal for the pleasure of watching it suffer might be karmic. ” In this scenario how does the karmic entaglement work, how are the dynamics like?

  130. 328 ken kaplan 19 Mar 2013 at 9:19 pm

    The issue is not the animal per se. It is the propensity for cruelty that is in play. This propensity will kick in some karmic consequence. How that looks could be in a tremendous variety of scenarios as the Soul seeks to balance out that tendency and move itself into more alignment with its essence. it could take many lifetimes depending om how embedded the enjoyment of cruelty is, which most likely did not just show up with the animal but was present in many other relationships and situations.

  131. 329 Amit 20 Mar 2013 at 1:52 am

    Can we have a bit more of elaboration on this, perhaps with the help of a few examples.

  132. 330 ken kaplan 20 Mar 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Examples of what? About karmic retribution for cruelty to animals? If you want books that have examples of karmic cases look on the web, get “Edgar Cayce on Reincarnation”, get “Journey of Souls”, Look for “Many Lives, Many Masters,m etc.)

    I don’t think there are lots of examples that deal specifically with animal cruelty but the principle is the same. Karma is “action-reaction” but in a complex way. Therefore it deals with vibration and frequency, that which you are putting out. The Universe is interested in energy, not content. If you hate and are violent for peace, all the Universe knows is the energy of hate and vlolence and the results will return accordingly.

    Thus is you express sadism toward any being, which is out of alignment with love, the results will reflect that.

    There is a difference between people who work in a slaughterhouse as a job vs someone who trolls the neighborhood torturing dogs and cats.

  133. 331 Amit 22 Mar 2013 at 12:40 am

    Both the replies sound a bit theoritical, can we have some practicle examples on how the reactions to the actions of lets say cruelty to animals manifests itself in human life. I torture and kill an animal lets say in a bull fight for sadistic pleasure how does it roll back to me on a realistic level.

  134. 332 ken kaplan 22 Mar 2013 at 11:08 am

    There are just not that many case histories in most of the books I have read or online to point out a specific example of what a karmic balancing would look like. Most deal with human situations such as “Edgar Cayce on Reincarnation” which has dozens of examples. I’m not sure why you’re so focused on this issue. If you can’t grasp the basic concept that the Universe responds to the basic energy you put out, I don’t know what more can be said.

    Cruelty is cruelty, no matter how its directed. If someone is sadistic, then some lifetime balancing will follow. If they are carrying, as a younger soul, a sadistic tendency, then most likely it played out with humans and other creatures.The person may be abused themselves, lose loved ones, die a difficult death. How it plays out with animals in particular I can’t say. Its not like an animal abuser has to be torn apart by wolves for karmic retribution. (But they could) The Universe has genius and is extremely dexterous in these matters.

    For example, a deeply materialistic person who has little regard for nature in development will have to deal with the consequences of the greed, mot necessarily the object of the greed. Or it may be later on as they are a little more developed themselves, a sacred spot they adore will be lost to them. Similarly, an animal abuser might, when they’re ready, lose beloved pets or become an advocate for animal rights and feel the pain of what happens to them. It gets quite complex.

    I would suggest looking more on your own rather than relying on us to provide every answer for you if this intrigues you so much.

    • 333 ken kaplan 22 Mar 2013 at 11:14 am

      P.S. The soul and guides know precise ways each soul needs to deepen around each issue. Thus in “Journey of Souls” a man who was a ruler of indigenous people who killed his mother for feeding the poor by raiding his stores of grain waited 4000 years (about an hour on the other side) and his mother approached him and said “It is time the debt must be fully repaid”. I suspect that cruelty , in any form, would be dealt with appropriately.

  135. 334 S Williams 23 Mar 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Interesting concept. Not sure where I fit in but it’s a bit of a wory :-)

    • 335 S Williams 23 Mar 2013 at 5:02 pm

      It’s 1 AM here and I’m on night shift – next time round I’ll be smarter :-)

      • 336 ken kaplan 26 Mar 2013 at 3:12 am

        Better you deal with it now. Your present circumstances reflect past choices and future potential. Wait and the same s–t comes round again.

  136. 337 Amit 26 Mar 2013 at 1:55 am

    @ I’m not sure why you’re so focused on this issue. If you can’t grasp the basic concept that the Universe responds to the basic energy you put out, I don’t know what more can be said.

    The reason being that I am always more into details as I belive we tend to lose focus on details when we are over driven by the bigger picture. We lose out majorly in life as we focus too much on the overall path and miss out on detailing. I would want to get down to the T on this as on everything else. But I assume u dont have answers to this one so just a generic hulla buloo answer. thats okay with me, I ll get my answers as the time comes….

  137. 338 Amit 26 Mar 2013 at 2:22 am

    I just got my answer by the way….as per an ancient book on reincarnation from the east its not impossible for a soul (mark I didnt say human souls as there is no such term) to take birth back as an animal to undo a karmic imbalance that it had done against the animal species. For the soul its just another expirence just like one in a human body. Though the transmigration is quicker back to human realm as compared to animals in progression as the soul already has the human experience. Its just like someone getting demoted at job and then getting a quick promotion due to previous experience. Getting transmigrated into an animal realm under exceptional situations is not an impossibility. Prove me otherwise with any chanelling data. The channeling data is still to catch up with the information we already have over last several thousand years. Now that I fianlly have my answer I am contented.

    • 339 ken kaplan 26 Mar 2013 at 3:15 am

      I’m glad you were provided with the answer that served you. We have been through the transmigration issue and are not clear on it. I do lean that way but have heard other views. IN the end intellectualizing doesn’t help me deal with here and now. For me.

  138. 340 Steve Goryan 28 Mar 2013 at 11:26 pm

    The unmentioned item I notice here is that the human condition – and I’m referring to a single lifetime from birth to death as a sept or octogenarian – is that most of us go through every one of these 5 stages. So then the question is when during one’s life is the the judgement made as to which of the stages is being experienced at that time. If the author can name famous people in their stages… I can guarantee you that 90% of them started as started out ‘focused on survival needs, based their lives around safety, security, structure and order, became outwardly bound and went in search of fame and fortune, moved into reflective and sincere, and eventually, as we age toward our 50′s, 60, and up (if we make it that far…) we show the behavior noted as ‘freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it’, true self expressionism and go our own ways in life – letting go…

    • 341 barry 29 Mar 2013 at 1:24 am

      Hi Steve

      In several places throughout the website, mostly in my responses to comments, I have often explained the concept of soul age manifestation. To summarise:

      No matter what our soul age/level, we come into each new life as helpless infants with no memory, no beliefs, no explicit knowledge. As physical beings, it’s as if we have to re-create ourselves from scratch, starting off as Infant souls and gradually working our way up the “ladder of consciousness” until we plateau out at our actual soul level. This plateau is usually around, or some time after, the age of 35. In other words, the first half of one’s life is about finding our feet as, say, a Mature soul in this new body, and the second half of life is about doing what we specifically came here to do in this life while “acting our age.”

      In may case, for example, I am without any doubt a 5th level Mature soul, and I have been really “acting my age” since I was about 40. But if I had tried to assess my soul level at the age of 20, I would have assumed that I was very much a Young soul, as I was so focused on worldly success and ego gratification.

      Now one could argue, as I think you are, that these “soul ages” are nothing but a misreading of what simply happens in the course of ordinary human development. However, the developmental studies of psychologists such as Jane Loevinger and Susan Cook-Greuter show that people do indeed plateau out at very different levels (they identify 10 rather than 5, but the correlations are obvious. I will write an article on this soon). It is certainly not the case that everyone goes through all five, as you suggest. Some, for instance, plateau out at the impulsive and “pre-conventional” levels, which equate to what are here called Infant soul characteristics.

      I should add that the famous examples compiled here are not my judgements but are readings that have been channelled by numerous Michael channels. I always suggest the caveat that none of them can be “proven”, and there may well be inaccuracies or inconsistencies in some of the channelling. See, for example, my review of channelled readings of Barack Obama: http://personalityspirituality.net/2009/09/07/the-soul-of-barack-obama/

      :-). Barry

      • 342 ken kaplan 29 Mar 2013 at 8:54 pm

        I agree with most of the assessment of Obama. Definitely pragmatist-idealist, observing-cautious. To me 4th stage. I would question Tony Blair as mature. Anyone who believed in the Iraq War and sold it with deception to me is not mature, or maybe very beginning mature.

        I doubt Obama was Douglass. Douglass was way too fiery, passionate and progressive to be the cautious, centrist, overly pragmatic Obama. Ironically those are more Lincoln’s traits.

        My understanding is basic core nature-development at higher levels comes with life to life. Obama does not have the true progressive soul as Douglass did. Its more abstract for him.

        Douglass would never put up with or cave into the Conservative interests Obama has.

        Just one man’s opinion.

  139. 343 Steve Goryan 29 Mar 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Hello Barry,
    Nope, no arguments, just realized that the definitions hit most people throughout the course of a single lifetime here and wondered when it would be worthwhile to discern the true age.

    • 344 barry 29 Mar 2013 at 7:45 pm

      Understood , basically 35+.

  140. 345 Gina 29 Mar 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Okay Thanks Ken, I’m going to think on this.