35 Steps

According to many spiritual teachers, all human beings are, in reality, spiritual beings on a human journey. We reincarnate as human beings in order to evolve as souls.

Our ultimate aim is to become fully conscious and capable as unique individual expressions of All That Is.

It is a long journey, but that’s okay because the soul is eternal.

Soul Evolution

The soul’s journey is really a process of evolving. This means growing in consciousness, steadily progressing through different levels or stages of consciousness.

How do we grow in consciousness? Through taking on challenging experiences in physical form. These cause us to make important, “soul-searching” choices and call upon us to discover our inner resources.

But why in physical form? Why would a perfectly happy spiritual being decide to inhabit the physical realm with all of its limitations and difficulties?

It is precisely so that we can experience the state of what feels like total separation from others and from the rest of reality. Only by going into this physically separated human form can we know ourselves as beings in our own right, and not just as … well … undifferentiated blobs of energy. Being physical throws our experiences and choices into extremely sharp relief in a way that is not possible otherwise. This is how we learn who we are and how to become all that we are.

In other words:

Choice and the ramifications of choice provide the essential lessons of life. In a very real sense, you choose to be here in order to make choices.

Messages from Michael

A d v e r t i s e m e n t

The 35 Steps

We are here to know ourselves and be all we can be, step by step. And according to the teachings of the entity known as Michael, there are 35 steps to the reincarnational process. The body and personality you have now are merely the vehicles you have chosen for this latest step in your journey.

But why 35 steps?

Why not 36 steps? Or 10? Or 100?

It is simply because, according to Michael, we go through five major stages of evolution through reincarnation. And, within each stage there are seven increments or levels to be completed. (Yes, it is rather like a computer game.)

5 x 7 = 35.

35 steps

Each single step requires a whole lifetime to complete. In fact, each step usually requires more than one lifetime. Typically, the entire journey of 35 steps takes well over a hundred lifetimes.

So let’s look at the journey in more detail. We’ll start with the five major stages of soul evolution through reincarnation.

The Five Stages

The Michael teachings describe a sequence of five “cycles” or stages of soul evolution. They are named after the stages of human development:

Each of these five corresponds to a specific level of development in capability and self-awareness within the individual soul.

Each stage is also characterised by a different learning focus that is more subtle than the previous ones.

Michael Newton

Incidentally, the same pattern of soul evolution has been identified by the hypnotherapist Michael Newton (right). His groundbreaking research was published in the best-selling book Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Llewellyn, 1994).

The books by Newton and his students draw upon thousands of transcripts of people who, under hypnotic regression, have re-experienced being between lives. From the higher perspective of their soul they are able to explain what happens after death and before birth. This includes information about the levels of consciousness through which reincarnating souls evolve.

What Newton and others have discovered is that souls between lives exist in light-form, and that each soul emanates a particular colour of the spectrum which indicates its current level of consciousness.

The spectrum begins at white (all colours) but then goes through red, yellow, green, blue, to deep purple and violet. From low frequency to high frequency. The least evolved souls — the “newbies” — have a pinkish hue. The oldest souls — those nearing the end of the whole reincarnational cycle — have a blueish hue.

Although the spectrum is a continuum, Dr. Newton has found that it can be divided into five distinct stages or levels of evolvement, from Level I to Level V. These can be mapped onto the five stages given in the Michael teachings, from Infant soul to Old soul.

So, for example, souls in the middle (or third) stage of reincarnation are referred to as “Young souls” in the Michael teachings and they are at what Newton would call “Level III”. They will have a yellowish or golden hue.

(As an aside, both Newton and the Michael entity also identify higher levels of soul evolution which do not involve reincarnation.)

The stages of reincarnation (or soul age) can also be likened to the stages of metamorphosis we see in nature, such as egg, caterpillar, chrysalis, butterfly. In reincarnation, though, what changes is not the physical form but the mode of consciousness, especially the form of self-awareness and — as a result — the way of relating to others.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t

Soul age and personality

Soul age will affect how a personality comes across in certain ways.

    1. Infant souls focus on immediate survival needs. They flourish in simple environments close to nature, such as remote tribes or rural, pastoral settings. In the context of modern society, however, they can come across as uncivilised simpletons or yokels, and may even be deemed to be psychopathic or have some sort of developmental disorder. Psychologically, they are naive, impulsive and “pre-conventional”, acting on impulse or habit with little or no thought for consequences. Because they lack both social understanding and self-inhibition, they are capable of committing antisocial or immoral acts without any sense of wrongdoing. As such, they do not fit well within modern society and may end up in prison or in psychiatric units. While infant souls may lack the moral principles, social graces and cultural understanding of older souls, they are in a sense completely innocent, being without pretense or agenda. [Well-known example: Fred West, serial killer]

  • Baby souls, in contrast to Infant souls, think a great deal about their actions. Their lives are about safety, security, structure and order — rigidly so. Both their beliefs and their actions are largely rule-bound, so they are often ultra-conservative, traditionalist, orthodox, upright, moralistic, religiously devout, and mindful of law and order. That said, they will occasionally give in to temptation, or temper tantrum, and break the rules themselves — but then might find themselves tortured with guilt and shame. They come across to older souls as rather “square” – conscientious, conventional, conformist. Baby soul communities tend to be highly principled and civilised (think of the Amish). They are acutely aware of the rights and wrongs of people’s actions, including their own, though they have little insight into the motives behind them. Bad behaviour is sinful, and that’s that. [Well-known example: Jimmy Swaggart]


  • Young souls tend to be extravert, outward-bound, worldly, frenetically energetic, brash, competitive, political, ambitious and individualistic. They are more ego-driven than personalities at any other soul age, keen to prove themselves in the world at large. They like to think for themselves, assert their own opinions, and follow their own agenda, with a certainty that their own way is by far the best way. They are generally attracted to some form of worldly success — fame, fortune, power, glory. In fact, they are more fearful of death than souls at other stages, and those who aren’t sure about life after death may be anxious to make a big impact on the world stage – to create some kind of symbolic immortality for themselves. Young souls are acutely aware of their own goals and intentions but do not really question them. [Well-known example: Napoléon Bonaparte.]


  • Mature souls tend to be thoughtful, reflective and sincere within themselves, and sensitive and empathetic towards others. Psychologically, their awareness is no longer egocentric (in the sense of being limited to a single perspective), but capable of accommodating multiple perspectives. In fact, the self-serving ego comes to be seen as a problem, something to be overcome — though in reality it is more a case of incorporating it into a broader level of awareness. This tension between ego and ego-transcendence, or between having both a personal agenda and a desire to be more open and authentic, makes life much more complicated — sometimes overwhelmingly so. On the one hand, mature souls reject narrow-minded values. Yet on the other hand, they can empathise with whoever holds those same values. Fixed opinions are replaced by a sense of ever-shifting perspectives — “It all depends on how you look at it”. This disappearance of solid ground kicks off a search for deeper meaning and self-understanding — whether through art, psychology, philosophy or spirituality. Politically, mature souls tend to be liberal and inclusive, and disapprove of any kind of narrow chauvinism. To younger souls, they can come across as bleeding-heart liberals. They tend to question everything, including their own motives, and are prone to do a lot of soul-searching (literally). [Well known example: Barack Obama.]


  • OId souls tend to exude some degree of depth, gravitas or wisdom that is quite unmistakable. Having moved beyond the conflicts of the mature soul, they are also lighter and have a sense of joyous freedom — the freedom to enjoy being very much in the world, but not of it. They are relatively calm, measured, untroubled and stable, unattached to social structures and cultural expectations, being sure of their own existence and inner strengths and their compassion for others. Their focus is on true self-expression and fulfillment, consciously participating in the evolution of all-that-is. As such, they tend to go their own unique way in life, letting go and letting be, in a detached way that may seem very weird and eccentric to younger souls. Late-stage old souls often focus on teaching spiritual wisdom with great compassion. [Well-known example: Osho]


Note: These descriptions emphasise the differences between stages. In reality, though, there is a gradual blend from one stage to the next. A person at the start of the Mature stage, for example, will act mostly like a Young soul but with elements of Mature soul nature beginning to emerge.

The lessons of each stage

Here are the five stages of soul evolution through human reincarnation, together with the typical learning experiences associated with each stage:

soul age focus 2 450

So we begin reincarnating as Infant souls, complete novices at physical existence. At this first stage we are largely in a state of incompetence and terror, frankly. But through experiences and choices we learn and grow. We steadily progress from being Infant souls to Baby souls to Young souls to Mature souls. Finally, we enter the fifth stage as accomplished Old souls, the experts of human existence.

As infant souls we learned about choices having to do with survival, as baby souls choices having to do with moral codes and ethics, as young souls choices having to do with mastery of achievement, as mature souls choices having to do with relationships, and as old souls choices having to do with the nature of oneness with the Tao. An infant soul would therefore not understand the choices of an old soul although an older soul would likely have more understanding of the nature of younger soul choice having had them.

Michael, via Victoria Marina

To look at each stage in more detail see:

Stage 1. The Infant Soul

Stage 2. The Baby Soul

Stage 3. The Young Soul

Stage 4. The Mature Soul

Stage 5. The Old Soul

Soul levels in the human population

The six or seven billion people on the planet span the whole range of stages, but the average is said to be somewhere just past the mid-point of stage 3 (see chart below). In other words, this world is currently dominated by Young souls whose primary focus is competitive self-advancement.

The seven steps within each stage

Within each stage there are seven discrete steps to go through. In the Michael teachings, they are called “levels”, so in each stage we proceed from 1st level to 7th level. Calling these “levels” can be a bit confusing (since Newton refers to the five major stages as “levels”), so I sometimes prefer to call them “steps”.

So each stage of reincarnation has seven distinct learning steps. For example, we begin the whole journey at step 1 as Infant souls, learn that lesson, then undertake step 2 as Infant souls, and so on. On completing the 7th step of the Infant stage, we then begin the 1st step of the Baby stage.

35 steps

The early steps in any stage are about experiencing life at this new stage of evolution, learning the essential lessons through appropriate experiences.

The later steps are about expressing those lessons, demonstrating this level of consciousness in action.

For example, in the Young soul stage, the first three steps — from 1st level Young soul to 3rd level Young soul — are about discovering the meaning of free will and self-determination; the last three steps — 5th level Young soul to 7th level Young soul — are about demonstrating the meaning of free will and self-determination in action. (The middle step — 4th level Young soul — is about consolidating the lessons learned.)

The first step or level of any stage is like putting a toe in the water; the final step is like teaching others how to swim:

1st Level Initiation into the new stage. “Toe in the water.” First glimpses of the new consciousness. We come to recognise that there is a whole new way of being ahead of us, and we respond to the call, even though as yet it is beyond our comprehension.
2nd Level Building foundations. Wading in and out. Comparing and contrasting the old and new consciousness. We come to understand what is essential and different about this higher level, though it still remains ‘ahead’ of us, not quite within us.
3rd Level Rising to the challenge. Taking the plunge. We determinedly commit ourselves to actively embrace and explore the new consciousness.
4th Level Integration. Relaxing into it, “enjoying the water.” We now identify ourselves with this way of understanding self, life and others – this is our truth. We fully incorporate and consolidate the new consciousness into our own being.
5th Level Expression. Splashing about – “Look at me!” We openly share and communicate our new, true sense of self and of life’s meaning. We feel drawn to broadcast our truth, to “go public” with it.
6th Level Demonstration. Giving value and benefit to others. “Being a life guard.” Our new consciousness is put to the test. We also burn off any outstanding karma incurred in the earlier steps of this stage.
7th Level Mastery. Peak performance. We have complete understanding and control of our awareness at this level. We know exactly what we are doing. We may feel like a role model. Hmm… What’s next?

This sequence of seven steps is repeated through each stage, making 35 steps in all from the beginning of reincarnation to the end.

In case you’re wondering, I’m at the 5th level of the Mature soul stage. My current life’s lesson is about outwardly expressing my Mature soul consciousness.

A d v e r t i s e m e n t

Many lives

So, we start our evolutionary journey at level 1 of stage I (as “1st Level Infant souls”) and end it at level 7 of stage 5 (as “7th Level Old souls”).

There are 35 steps in all. And each single step requires at least one lifetime to complete.

A single step can be done in one lifetime but often that’s too big a stretch, so an initial life may undertaken as a taster, followed by one or two more which really go for it.

Sometimes a life is interrupted, and the soul will just have to start over in the next life. Also, some lives are undertaken for reasons other than the specific intent to develop. For example, one lifetime might be undertaken primarily to assist another soul in their development. And some lives are taken on primarily for the death experience, for karmic reasons. These can be very short, of the order of days, weeks or months.

Taking into account all the gaps spent in the non-physical state between lives, a single step is typically accomplished in about 100-300 years of Earth time.

The whole journey of 35 steps usually takes well over 100 lifetimes. Hence, the whole journey is likely to take of the order of 7,000-8,000 years, but possibly a lot more if the population is low and opportunities to incarnate are few.

Questions and Answers

Coming back again and again sounds dreadful. Why don’t we just give up and be done with it? Can’t I just decide that this is my last time?

You cannot skip any of the steps, nor would you want to (from the soul’s perspective). You wouldn’t rent a movie but then skip to the final credits just to avoid the whole process of sitting through the movie. In fact, it’s more like a computer game. You are playing the game because you want to, and at some level you actually love it. And you know perfectly that you need to master one level before you can move on to the next level. That’s what the game is all about.

Who says?

There’s no tyrannical deity controlling the game, forcing you to keep at it, deciding who gets to “graduate” and who doesn’t. It’s just the natural dynamic of life and the evolution of consciousness. A tadpole cannot suddenly transform into a full-grown frog. A baby human cannot suddenly take on a professional career or family responsibilities. There’s a natural, inevitable sequence to go through. And we’ve all signed up for it.

But why? What’s it all about?

Well, at the level of spirit or essence, all is one, all is love, all is joy. This is all very nice, but consciousness longs to experience more and more of what there is to experience, the utter richness and fullness of life.

How does it do that?

By fragmenting into zillions of conscious entities, each of whom has its own experiences and perspective, and each of whom can make its own choices about what to experience. Any soul can choose to continue being submerged in all-that-is, albeit with little sense of self. Alternatively, any soul can choose to undergo the experience of life in a separate physical form, interacting with other souls in their own physical forms. This is the ultimate way to experience oneself as a self.

And that’s why we are here?

We have all made this choice: to use the human form as a vehicle to help us become more conscious of ourselves as the amazing beings we are. The aim is to experience every possible experience that enables us to emerge more and more consciously and fearlessly as ourselves. We begin as helpless infants for whom the experience of separate existence is quite terrifying. But we end as autonomous, self-realised beings for whom human existence is the most amazing way of being, feeling joyful and free and sharing love with the whole of life.

See also:


755 Responses to “Reincarnation: the 35 steps of soul evolution”

  1. 1 Julie Zepnick Gingras 28 Dec 2014 at 11:02 pm

    I disagree with the bell-curve quantification of souls. Given the population boom of late, the majority of people would have to be of infant souls….unless you are inferring that there are people with no soul at all.

    • 2 Justin 08 Feb 2015 at 7:49 am

      Unless you were asked to come back, souls that have transcended… Light workers, are coming back in mass to help heal this world.

    • 3 mike rivera 26 Feb 2015 at 9:30 pm

      This “population boom” wasnt a world wide phenomena, the baby boom was an american thing, where as the entirety of this graph represents a world wide plane. I’m not saying there’s any one way to determine at which step an entire generation is through their soul journey, but simply being born in the same time frame would imply all other babies born in 1994 have the same skill and mindset as me, not to mention we are in the same part of our soul journey which just isn’t right. If there’s a way to determine NOT how to graph and classify the advancement of souls, it would be by generalizing a start point for which certain people need to fall into the category of “blank” old soul young soul etc. Just my thoughts

      • 4 Ken Kaplan 28 Feb 2015 at 3:04 am

        Well I think you’re pretty correct. I don’t think generational or chronological age has anything to do with soul development. To me the best assessment is the eye test. Just look around. Some things are just patently clear. Plus we must be careful not to be seduced by media. We may collectively be more advanced than we think.

      • 5 barry 01 Mar 2015 at 12:22 pm

        There have been many “baby booms” – post-WWII USA, post-WWII France, post-abortion-ban Romania, current AIDS-hit Africa. But these are trivial compared to the global population explosion of the last two centuries:


        “…simply being born in the same time frame would imply all other babies born in 1994 have the same skill and mindset as me…”

        – not so

        “…not to mention we are in the same part of our soul journey…”

        – Again, not so

        IMO: While the world’s population is rising exponentially, we might wonder where all these “new” souls are coming from. From a spiritual perspective, however, they aren’t new at all. It’s just the same old population of souls (including you and me) spending more time down here “on the stage” and less time “behind the scenes” (on the astral plane between lives).

        Why? Because — regardless of our soul age — we are particularly eager to get back into this age of technological change, political upheaval, social revolution, and other kinds of positive (and negative) shift.


  2. 6 barry 28 Dec 2014 at 11:11 pm

    A population boom does not necessarily imply an influx of new souls. Rather, souls across the spectrum are incarnating en masse to experience the excitement of the times.

    • 7 kenstories1 28 Dec 2014 at 11:26 pm

      Just to piggyback. To me an accurate way to gain an appraisal is to look at the activity of Souls across the planet. How does their behavior reflect Soul development? From this I glean that the most concentration is in the baby, young, mature categories with emphasis on baby and young. There seems to be an influx also of old souls coming in as well. One mature or old soul energetically can effect thousands or millions of others.

      Much of the intense tribalism on Earth is baby soul stuff. Most of the developed countries and huge parts of Asia and South America seem infused with a mixture of the three I mentioned. North Korea and some others could be an infant-baby soul nation. So by no means are the majority of souls coming in for the first time.

      Remember soul development is not limited to time or space as other planets have human or human like species.

  3. 8 Miss Missi 30 Dec 2014 at 11:44 am

    Wow! Amazing article, even better insight. I don’t if it was the way it was written, constructed or the facts present, but this is one of the best spiritual articles I’ve ever read! Thank you for sharing!

    • 9 barry 30 Dec 2014 at 11:11 pm

      Cheers Miss Missi!

      • 10 Joe 07 Jan 2015 at 5:35 am

        Hello Barry and Ken,

        Happy new year! I won’t be dismissive about the ‘Elder’s’ posting. Your reply/response may have an element of truth. To a ‘normal’ person, seeing blue orb or kundalini experience can be a hallucination, visual or tactile, as well. Above all, its all His Lila(play); why take things personal?



        • 11 barry 07 Jan 2015 at 8:51 am

          Hi Joe,

          As a rule I like to remain open to all commenters, whatever their Lila. It demonstrates how different we all are, while all being part of the One, which is the basic theme of the whole website.

          But at the same time I want to maintain a civilised tone — I guess that’s my Lila, my limitation as a Mature soul.

  4. 12 Bridgett 08 Jan 2015 at 4:26 am

    Hi! I just wanted to say, if you guys want to delete my posts about my kundalini experience you are more than welcome. I was excited that I found you guys and may have written too much on there and at the time I was highly anxious and fearful of what I was going through as well. It does sound far off. I have to agree that to a “normal” person it would sound nuts and I don’t want to bring any negative attention your way because what you guys are doing has helped me and many others! I know that if I had read my story about 3 years ago I would’ve thought I was crazy and I’ve always had an open mind about things. I wanted you to know that I’ve became balanced. I quit meditating for a while and quit “trying” to rush the answers. It has made it so much easier to get the answers if I just patiently wait on them. :) I can’t get enough of H.P. Blavatsky’s work either. I’m continuously reading “The Secret Doctrine” and I especially like her “Collected Writings” on elementals. Which I think would explain a lot of the imagery I was seeing and experiencing. My vibration was extremely low at the time obviously, I was full of fear, they fed off that and made it worse. Which could possibly explain why I was so tired at the time as well. Just my thoughts… But again I want to thank you both!!! Have a wonderful New Year and I send you all lots of love!!!

  5. 13 Maya more 19 Jan 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Is the soul watching his family once it’s up

    • 14 Ken Kaplan 19 Jan 2015 at 7:10 pm

      Usually yes. Actually they ordinarily take a pretty strong interest and are around more than you think. They also have their own “curriculum” on the other side.

  6. 15 Niel 29 Jan 2015 at 9:20 pm

    I just wanted to leave a comment about how I feel like I recently (last couple of years) went through the transitioning experience from mature to old soul. I live in Belgium where obviously the average soul age is late young early mature and what I’ve found interesting is that I during this transitioning experience I’ve gotten more drawn to my neighbouring country The Netherlands which if I remember correct has a slightly older average soul age (mature/old). I don’t believe this is a coincidence. Another interesting fact is that also in the beginning of this experience I went to see a Reiki healer who informed me I had much energy in my upper chakras, which doesn’t seem to be a coincidence since like you said old souls vibrate along the blue color of the light spectrum.
    Now, I am only in my mid 20’s which I think is quite young to reach this level so what I am wondering about is whether I have transitioned to old for the first time in this lifetime or if I have done it before in previous lifetime(s). I honestly do not know but it could actually be the former when you also consider that we just entered the Age of Aquarius and so Earth may be changing rapidly along with us.

    I’m just glad that I finally moved out of the drama and insecurity of the mature soul level (a very unrewarding level). Some say that old souls are less emotional and more detached but I really do not feel so, it’s just that we do not cling to and identify with these emotions like mature’s do (we experience and acknowledge them just the same but instead of acting on em or forming your beliefs over them we prefer to let em slide and move on). For example, mature souls can often be really self-sacrificing (to others or to the group as a whole) as a result of this and also seem to have a bit of a herd mentality like child souls, while old souls realize that there is little difference between helping others and self (all are one), so we do not sacrifice ourselves for a cause and like you said again become more individualistic and confident like young souls. I can also now look everyone in the eye with ease (not intimidatingly like young souls) while I remember at mature level I often was uncomfortable with (mature level is an insecure one). To sum it up I believe that the lesson of the old soul level is simply on balance (balance between all previous soul levels/chakras). (This may sound boring but it really isn’t. Imo what is boring instead is staying stuck on one part of your total being.) And this lesson was quickly drilled into me even in the beginning when that same Reiki healer from before in that same session told me I had to focus on grounding.

    Finally I want to add some little disagreements with you in that I do not think that the color white resonates with extremely young souls but instead on extremely old souls who have done all the balancing, as white is merely the sum of all colors. But then again, maybe perfect balance is impossible, who knows?
    Also, from other spiritual info I’ve garnered it is my belief that even the oldest of us are still very young if you look at it from a universal scale, in that there exist dimensions beyond our 3rd dimensional one. So what I’m saying is that after old 7th here you do not become “one with the Tao” but instead become infant 1st in the next dimension. And also every dimension as a whole resonates with a big soul age/color. So according to these sources our 3rd dimension has true color yellow (aka young planet) and it will become 4rd dimension true color green (aka mature planet) when alot of us have moved to or beyond old soul age, and apparantly this isn’t so far ahead of us. They also add it is possible to “evolve” along a negative path which seeks to create total imbalance instead of balance, which explains the psychopathic among us, which is something that I feel is missing from your teachings.

    But, great site and good luck to y’all! See ya. Old soul is the most fun level (as opposed to the name implies), so move quick!

    • 16 barry 29 Jan 2015 at 9:57 pm

      Hi Neil

      I don’t think you have transitioned from mature to old in a few years. Rather, you have developed in your psychological level of manifestation and identification within this life, which is what all of us do.

      In each life we have to re-emerge through all our previous levels, starting from 1st level infant at the moment of birth, and “peaking” at our current soul age around mid-life. But it’s not our soul that’s evolving over the first decades of life. Rather, it is our human psyche, which gradually comes to “mirror” our soul age by growing in maturity, and in accordance a with local circumstances.

      Any old soul during each incarnation will think and act like an infant soul in infancy, then like a baby soul in early childhood, then like a young soul in adolescence and a mature soul in early adulthood. The psyche doesn’t normally reflect the full depth of one’s soul age until around age 35.

      Hope that makes sense.

      PS – Did you read the bit about the 6th and 7th cycles (transcendental and infinite soul levels)?


      • 17 Niel 30 Jan 2015 at 10:23 pm

        Hi Barry!

        Yes, I know what you’re saying and this is what I believed at first too. It’s just that I know almost no one of my generation who still functions at baby/child level. Most young people these days seem to be at atleast young/mature level. This I find a bit contradictory with your information that your real soul age typically doesn’t manifest until age 35, which would imply that the older generations before us would function at an average higher soul level (doesn’t seem to be the case). Thus my theory is that we live in a very special time where the Earth photon vibration is increasing causing rapid soul growth in humanity (like a catalyst), and this is why souls have been incarnating en masse. And this is why I am open to the possibility that I have reached this level for the first time, simply by responding to the new vibrations.

        Now you may ask why older generations aren’t experiencing the same? Well, they are, it’s just that it’s harder to change when you have been stuck in comfort zone for so long (generally the comfort zone/ego gets stronger the longer your Earthly life gets), which gets in the way of their growth and their response to the new vibrations. As a result, many are still operating at rigid baby/child level even at this time. If my theory is correct then within a few more generations almost every incarnated soul on Earth will be atleast mature.

        And yes, I have read about transcendental and infinite souls but if you are saying that infinite is the absolute highest level and for example Jesus Christ was infinite then you are wrong. According to my source (Law of One) Jesus came from the upper fourth dimension (2000 years ago, now he apparantly is in fifth dimension) which is ofcourse clearly above old soul but there apparantly there exist seven dimensions in total, so even he still has a long way to go.

        I also find it weird and confusing that beyond people’s soul age you again split them up in server/king/sage/warrior. Imo a better explanation would be that these “roles” are available to everyone depending on which chakras/soul age they are using and identifying with right now. For example, red/infant souls would be primarily warriors, orange/child souls would be servers, young/yellow souls would be kings, green/mature souls would be priests and scholars and blue/old souls would be sages and artisans (not saying it’s correct but just to make a point). Then a really old soul would not be any role at all, as they are balanced, if you get what I’m saying. (All are one, all are kings, warriors, scholars, artisans, … There is no reason to limit yourself to one role (= stupid and boring). Ofcourse this is what many people do, and imo is the result of their ego’s kicking in.)

        Anyway, thanks for replying! (Not trying to downplay your or Michael’s teachings but I just can’t help saying things which are on my chest. There is still alot of good stuff here.)

        • 18 Ken Kaplan 30 Jan 2015 at 11:22 pm


          One of the advantages of being a really older fart is it gives you some perspective, irrespective of soul age.

          “It’s just that I know almost no one of my generation who still functions at baby/child level. Most young people these days seem to be at atleast young/mature level.”

          Two points
          1) Barry was saying *as an infant* an old soul will display infant characteristics
          2) *Most* people of your generation imo are not displaying “young mature” level. There is great diversity. There are literally millions of baby souls in your generation. They take the form of fundamentalists. Remember we are talking world wide. Who do you think many of the players in ISIS are? I agree I see a lot of advanced souls coming in, but the world is a big place. What the proportion is I don’t know but I would hesitate to say “most”. More, maybe, hopefully.

          I think the Earth’s field is commensurate with the new vibration coming in. Therefore it becomes receptive to those with higher vibration. (Law of Attraction”) Are Souls accelerating once they get here. Sure. But my sense is the parameters of what you are are pretty set before you come in. Once here you can grow, but a jump, lets say to mid young to mid mature imo is not in the cards. If you are old, at your age, you came in old. The environment did not make you “old”. It can’t speed you up that fast. What it can do is be more harmonic to allow you to flourish whereas you couldn’t come in at this level years or decades or centuries ago except under special circumstances.

          I was “spiritually raised” in the Yogic tradition of the East. Being so close to a realized master (more than one) my experience is they are way beyond fifth dimension. Fifth is what we are playing with now (Fourth is the Astral plane-ghosts and stuff) I doubt seriously Jesus came in at fourth. . I work a lot with Ascended Masters (Jesus, Mary, St Germain, Kwan Yin, etc). My sense is they are around 10th or 12th. So I would disagree. The great Gurus have achieved unity, there is truly no real “I” there. They are just a complete and open channel in form for the entirety (which we all are) to express itself fully.

          The other stuff I can’t comment on. I can only talk about that which I have experienced. Barry can address that. One thing I will say is individuation in form is for particular reasons. Its kind of like we need all jobs to make a society or all keys on the piano to make music. But I agree I wouldn’t restrict. Yet we must remember who “we” are. If “we” are “God” then ultimately who is having the experience? A separate identity or the whole? Therefore the issue of “restriction” is moot. Because its all by consent at a very high level. No one experience is better than another because only one energy is having the experience.

          “You are not a drop in the ocean. You are the mighty ocean in a drop.”- Rumi

          So in the end, who are you? Beyond this convenient conceptualization which can be helpful but is not “the thing itself”. That’s the real question.

          • 19 barry 31 Jan 2015 at 1:58 am

            Just to add to Ken’s response:

            “Most young people these days seem to be at at least young/mature level.” — I’m not sure what population sample you are basing that on. For some of Northern Europe it may be the case, where the average soul age is evidently late Mature/Old. But globally the average soul age is at the late Young / early Mature crossover.

            Given that true soul age doesn’t manifest through human personality until later in life, this means that globally the average 20-something would be manifesting (thinking and acting) more like Baby / Young, or fundamentalist / egocentric.

            We cannot leap-frog from one cycle of evolution to the next by being exposed to a wave of photons. That would be analogous to a school pupil getting a PhD because there’s fairy dust in the air. We cannot rise in self-awareness, empathy, responsibility, and wisdom simply by being in the right ambient conditions. We evolve by *choosing* our own way to higher consciousness step by step, and we do that by confronting our lack of consciousness in relationship to others, and choosing to reach higher.

            With regard to Jesus: The level of consciousness which eventually manifested through that physical individual (when he reached the physical age of 33 or so) was not “his” individual soul age, but a sample of the infinite unity of being at the higher planes. In that particular case, the human life served as a demonstration of infinite love and unconditional altruism, which in turn serves as a massive inspiration for all of us evolving on this planet.

            “There is no reason to limit yourself to one role” … Which is precisely why, once we come into being as infant souls, we evolve by experiencing the attributes of all the roles (dominance, caution, etc.) The whole thrust of creation is to create diversity, and then for new consciousness to emerge and evolve through that diversity towards a whole new level of unity. As we evolve towards the final cycle, we do indeed become more balanced, just as you described. For example, King souls will have learned to be more humble and helpful, like Servers, and not simply leaders.

            There are certainly resonances between types and levels. As Infant souls, we are overwhelmed by being in a world of experience that is not under our control (in the way that the astral is). This is precisely why Server roles manage to adapt most readily as Infant souls. They have an innate proclivity for coping with existence. The ordinal-inspiration overleaves such as attitude of Stoicism also resonate with this role and soul age. Similarly, Artisans adapt most readily at the Baby/Child levels, with their ability to create structure and to develop culture.

            We are at our most different as Young souls, where standing out is what matters in terms of evolution. Infant souls of all types are more alike – just coping with physicality. Older souls are also more alike, being well-rounded and unconcerned with being “special”.

            Which leads me to an observation: Your keenness to distinguish yourself as an Old soul is not exactly typical of Old souls. Your earlier remarks about the Mature cycle being “unrewarding” and your expression of relief at being past all that suggests (ironically) a lack of empathy. No cycle is more rewarding than another. An eternal soul has no reason to “move quick.” Moving from one soul level to another isn’t a sign of achievement. It’s all good.

            • 20 barry 31 Jan 2015 at 2:25 am

              PS – haha, just rereading my response – apologies if I sound grouchy and confrontational, it’s because i have a lingering viral chest infection that’s kept me awake for 3 nights in a row and I’m feeling more than a little fed up with it!

            • 21 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 3:35 am

              I was thinking along similar lines. To me, the hall mark of “Old Souls” is not balance or contentment but realization and empathy. The heart widens and identity becomes background, not foreground. I have not seen these attributes in your posts. Thus either you are not an old soul or you are an old soul following precisely the evolution in this incarnation of development Barry (Michael) outlined. So you would still be in “young-mature” level at the personality level and your fuller awakening awaits you as you approach your mid thirties.

              Sorry if these grizzled “mature souls” play Devil’ advocate. As I said, there is some value in having been around in a body for a while. Wisdom is the exchange for age.

              • 22 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 3:39 am

                P.S. Barry there are a lot of baby souls out there. How did you come up with globally Young-Mature? Maybe I’m being influenced too much by media as violence in the world has actually gone way down. I think Climate Change is the #1issue facing humanity.

              • 23 Niels 31 Jan 2015 at 1:38 pm

                To Barry and Ken,

                I figured as much that you guys would downplay my self-labeling as “old soul” as soon as I started questioning your assumptions/teachings with other teachings I’m more closely attuned with. And no, I could actually care less about which my soul age actually is and the only reason I assigned the old soul label to myself is because the descriptions of all the other ages simply resonate with me less than this one. I obviously do not identify with infant, child or young, nor the emotional drama or the endless intellectual introspectiveness of the mature soul. And Live and let live is indeed my trademark.

                Barry – “I’m not sure what population sample you are basing that on. For some of Northern Europe it may be the case, where the average soul age is evidently late Mature/Old. But globally the average soul age is at the late Young / early Mature crossover.”
                Yes, I am ofcourse biased to the area where I live so I may be wrong. However, if my theory is false then you still haven’t addressed the fact as to why the older generations in my same area seem to be functioning at an obviously younger soul age?

                Ken – “I was thinking along similar lines. To me, the hall mark of “Old Souls” is not balance or contentment but realization and empathy. The heart widens and identity becomes background, not foreground. I have not seen these attributes in your posts. Thus either you are not an old soul or you are an old soul following precisely the evolution in this incarnation of development Barry (Michael) outlined.”
                And see, this is where you are wrong. The heart is the center of focus of the mature soul moreso than the old soul, because the heart is the fourth chakra (green ray) which is the springboard level from the third (yellow ray/young soul)! That is why the young and the mature seem so opposed, and precisely why mature is the most self-sacrificial level! The old soul then moves on to the fifth (blue) and sixth (indigo) chakra (seventh chakra is merely the sum of all previous 6), which is when the balancing starts (function of third eye, again incorporation of the selfish lower chakras with the altruistic higher ones). If you guys are indeed mature then it is obvious why you are resistant to my self-label as old soul, since you cannot believe that an old soul can be less “empathic” than you.
                Look, you guys are part of the new age movement, which I’m telling you right now is a mature soul movement, not an old soul one. This is because all your energy goes to your hearts, but you neglect your gut and your head. You also say that identity disappears as your heart grows stronger, but please then tell me why you identify with your heart? Identity is CORE, whether false or true, and it can never disappear, only change.

                “No cycle is more rewarding than another.” Tell that to all those infant souls in Africa who are being devoured by lions. It is pain (catalyst) that causes us to want to move/”evolve” quick, because with each next step your life becomes more harmonious (even though young souls often have material succes, their inner life is one of agony). This is also why comfort is bad because it hinders progress. If your life is not more harmonious after you moved to the next level then you simply have not moved on to the next level. This is because higher vibrations are corrolated with lower entropy (entropy is chaos).

                “The environment did not make you “old”. It can’t speed you up that fast. What it can do is be more harmonic to allow you to flourish whereas you couldn’t come in at this level years or decades or centuries ago except under special circumstances.”
                Assumptions, assumptions. The environment cannot make you old? Then why do bananas ripe faster when you add ethylene (catalyst) to the environment? What gives you the authority that you can deny that a soul can move very fast in one lifetime given the right circumstances?

                • 24 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 4:40 pm

                  Wow. Niels,

                  I find a lot of assumptions in your post. We all try to bring thoughts and perspective to these discussions. My perception is you perceive us as “attacking” you. “I figured as much that you guys would downplay my self-labeling as “old soul” as soon as I started questioning your assumptions/teachings with other teachings.”

                  If you read my posts I did not “down play” anything because I am not in your skin, and frankly could not really know. The very term “Devil’s Advocate” means a debating device for the purpose of illuminating or helping to clarify a part of that discussion. If some of your writing puts up red flags from my experience, then should we not discuss it, rather than taking anything one says at face value, just as you should not and clearly are not taking some or much of this site at face value?

                  There is so much here (and in your subsequent post) I can not address it all and in the end, it appears on several issues we are not going to agree, which is fine. What is, is, and no amount of intellectual debate will change reality. So I honor where you are.

                  My core position in my life is I do not comment significantly on things In have not personally experienced. Teachings may look grand or wonderful (such as Multiverse theory), but I will not pretend to be adroit in that knowledge if I have not had meaningful personal encounter with it. So I believe in simultaneous multidimensional realities because of my intuitive contact with it and fusion with energies that strongly suggest it, but I would never try to espouse any detail on it because my experiential platform is not large enough.

                  So I will address one issue in which I do have expertise. The issue of victim perpetrator and Soul contracts. I have had enough experience and encounter with it on many levels to say that for me, this spiritual “theory” is correct. I actually teach on the subject and there are about 6 converging vectors of information (including my own personal mystical experience) that reinforce that this is the way things are and that the subtle realms are extremely ordered in their interface with the physical experience. If it were not so, how could there be such ac thing as “Soul evolution” to begin with? Everything would be chaos.

                  I do agree with one thing you said on this. “error: future is unknown, only guesses can be made)”. Yes. I gave a talk on this in relationship to Quantum Mechanics. In reality we come in as an energy-consciousness stream of probabilities. Some probabilities are far stronger than others and for the most part are unmoveable (parents, culture, body, major life events-relationships) but in theory everything can be moved. The fee will issue is usually most evident in how we deal with these events, situations and people, and hoe we cope with “choice points” we have set up for ourselves as a challenge for certain lessons and growth we want in this life.

                  Language can obscure or distort so we may actually be closer in thought than we think because there may be ac refinement in your expression that is not coming across. But I ask you two questions and I would like your answer.
                  1) What happens to Souls on the “negative path”. How do they reunite with “God” (who they can’t escape because how can the wave escape the Ocean)?
                  2) My parents were horrific abusers emotionally, especially my mother. Were they on the “negative path” because on the surface it appears they behaved terribly and were deeply narcissistic, or did I make a prearranged agreement with them that either they would behave this way because I needed it badly for my development or our karmas interfaced into an agreement for the same outcome? Since I am a medium I contact them often on the other side. Not only are they totally different rhere but what is strange and ironic is they were a zealous atheist (father) and deep agnostic (mother). Yet there they both have healing power and gifts, which astonished me when I first encountered it on a drive to Lancaster one night. Go figure.

                  I cannot deny the power of my own mystical encounter with the subject, which is quite strong, and every vector points toward the fact that perpetrator-victim is an illusion of the world of duality, necessary when the soul in human form explores the realm of contrast. Like the sand in the oyster, someone has to play the “bad guy” in order for growth to take place. My experience is without the dark, the soul cannot fully understand itself as light. Or as a channel-mentor said to me many years ago, “If one is always in a 70 degree room, one never fully appreciates it until one has gone into the extremes of hot and cold, and then returns”.

                  Each of us has to be true to what we learn and experience. I am not just relying on Michael teachings (but a lifetime of teachings and experience). My Guru for example never spoke of such a thing and emphasized that God was with the sinners also. There is an old saying- ” A sinner is a saint with a past, a saint is a sinner with a future.”

                  One last thought. I think the New Age movement is an extremely diverse group and some its greatest generators as an integral part of this movement of energy were very old souls such as Neem Karoli Baba who flooded though “”Be Here Now”, Ram Das’ conduit for him which accelerated millions of people, as did Yogananda with his autobiography, and the great Buddhist teachers and other Yogic Masters.

                  This site and you and me would not be where we are without them. And I would like to suggest that without “mature souls” (as you termed things) laying and anchoring the grid for decades of hard work, you would not have had the energetic field, whether receptive to you or initiating (in your terms) for you to flourish in. Things don’t happen by accident imo and everyone as the expression of the “One” work together.

                  I appreciate your path and your insights. Some of which we agree with, some of which we don’t. In the end, our story does not matter that much. What we do with it does.

                  And if you knew me you would never say I am not in my head or connected to it.

                  Thanks for participating.

                  • 25 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 4:49 pm

                    P.S. sorry for the typos. One last thing. My intuition tells me that the whole here is like a giant oscilloscope. Because everything (as you noted) are probabilities it constantly self adjusts and has created room for this constant variation. This does not mean there is no intention , and often quite specific intention, in the pre-life phase. Some lives are highly scripted. others are very loose. Its quite a symphony.

                    • 26 Joe 31 Jan 2015 at 7:20 pm

                      “We meet only those people with whom our meeting is predestined. Duration of association with each person is also preordained. One should not grieve if one is separated or if the association does not last long.” – Neem Karoli Baba

                    • 27 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 9:25 pm

                      Neem Karoli Baba was one of the greatest of Masters. But he said very little. It was not in his nature to expound. This statement covers the basics and the big picture is true. But if there might be technical variations, it was not in his nature to touch on it for the essence of what he wanted to impart would be lost. A Guru, no matter how great, is just one conduit for something much vaster. So that which is the All may use one vehicle for certain purposes and others for different ones, or to clarify something one vehicle could not address.

                      So my Guru, equal to Neem Karoli Baba (NKB said of him “Krishna was born in jail and now he is in jail again-my Guru was a political prisoner of the Indian government) never spoke of angels, rarely spoke of the afterlife, never spoke of “soul contracts”. Who “he” really was (which is me) knew that down the line these things would come into play. And in connecting with them free will is emphasized quite strongly. Yogananda also believed in free will and he was part of a lineage of great, great Masters.

                      In the end I do not *know* the answer. But all current “technology of consciousness” points toward some element of free will. But within limits. At the highest level I agree it dissolves for God is in control. One must return to ones origins, it is not up for discussion.

                      However I believe there is wiggle room for the timing. This corresponds to a Quantum Universe. As above, so below. Otherwise the whole thing becomes a machine- a Calvinistic determinism. And to be straight, where’s the fun in that for God? The word “Lila” means “creative sport”. Yogananda called this “God’s hobby”.

                      Would you like to play a game where the outcome was completely determined at every level every time?

                      BORING. At this level imo , my experience, what causes the juice is the variable unpredictability. In the end, I agree, Source is the doer, but some flexibility is built into the system.

                      I have had powerful intuitives say things like “you are a year behind”. In Whitton’s book the woman crashed and burned the plan. All probabilities exist simultaneously, but not all manifest The Universe is a remarkably adaptable organism. I got myself in such a pickle that my Guru came to me in a dream and said millions of years were at stake and he could only come to me three more times before I was on my own. Didn’t feel in the least like everything was just ordained and I had no choice in the matter. Quite the opposite. Thank God I recovered. He came to me in a dream and predicted the breakdown. (That was ordained) But the severity of it had a lot to do with how I handled it. He was there to course correct but was powerless if I didn’t follow though. Again, I don’t believe for a second it was all preordained the way it manifested.

                      There are so many examples of this.

                      Just my opinion. Go for what works for you.

                  • 28 Niel 02 Feb 2015 at 4:49 pm

                    To Ken and Barry,

                    I admit I may have come off as a bit defensive in my last post, so I’d like to apologize for that. It really doesn’t matter anyway what my or your soul age is.

                    However, I’ll try to answer your questions Ken:
                    “1) What happens to Souls on the “negative path”. How do they reunite with “God” (who they can’t escape because how can the wave escape the Ocean)?”

                    The negative or service-to-self path came into being with the advent of free will (although unexpected), and needs to stay this way otherwise free will be diminished in the process.
                    However, ‘entities’ on this path are allowed to “evolve” to fourth and fifth density (our third density is mixed polarity while fourth/fifth are split into positive and negative and these two realities are separated, this is why third density is called the ‘choice’ density) because they also see the Creator, but only in themselves (whereas positive entities see the Creator in others or in the whole). However, after fifth density comes the sixth density, which is the density of Oneness. This means that the two paths cease to exist there (as all needs to be seen as one), aka that positive entities need to join with negative entities. This is not very hard for positive entities but very hard for negative entities and thus few negative fifth density entities are able to make this “jump” in perception, so if they want to ascend to sixth density they often have to come back to third density and switch polarity, a very lengthy process apparantly. In any case, their souls do not get “destroyed” as some teachings teach.

                    “2) My parents were horrific abusers emotionally, especially my mother. Were they on the “negative path” because on the surface it appears they behaved terribly and were deeply narcissistic, or did I make a prearranged agreement with them that either they would behave this way because I needed it badly for my development or our karmas interfaced into an agreement for the same outcome”

                    When I said that abuse is not needed I did not mean that it is useless. Abuse can be seen as negativity and negativity’s role to positive people is that of a catalyst. These painful experiences can thus help you polarize more quickly in either direction. For example, psychology teaches us that victims of abuse often become abusers themselves later in life, and this is exactly for this reason as these people used this experience of victimhood to culminate a “fist of anger” against others and so they ended up polarizing more negatively as a result and became abusers themselves.
                    However, the opposite is also possible and other victims of abuse have used this experience to instead quickly polarize more positively so they could step out of this cycle of perpetrator-victim and have become very empathic/intuitive people as a result.
                    To sum it up, negativity came into being with the advent of free will (through the “veil of forgetting” which applies to our third density of self-consciousness) and the one good thing that has come out of it is faster polarization in either direction.
                    This is why I contradict myself and in some cases one could in fact have chosen to be born in an abusive environment if your soul wanted to polarize quickly. However, it is wrong for the Michael teachings to assume that every mature soul has played the role of abuser (and that every young soul is an abuser). This is only if they switched polarity from negative to positive at one time. (Although since we’re all somewhat mixed polarity in this reality, it is true that we all are a little bit abusive.) And nor is playing the role of victim necessary, unless you were trying to speed up your own spiritual evolution.

                    • 29 Ken Kaplan 02 Feb 2015 at 5:43 pm

                      I’m having a little bit of a hard time following this so I need time to digest it. Its entirely possible. One question. Is this something you have personally experienced or is this something you have read? My own approach is never to accept something fully “carte blanche” unless I have personal experience with it.

                      Otherwise its just a nice theory and another belief system. There are all kinds of wild things out habout the origins of all this *Edgar Cayce for example.) I can only resonate with that which i have had personal intuitive encounter that becomes validating.

                      However I am firm that victim-perpetrator is an illusion. All is by agreement or cause.

                      Thanks for your comment.

                    • 30 Niel 03 Feb 2015 at 12:22 am

                      “Is this something you have personally experienced or is this something you have read? My own approach is never to accept something fully “carte blanche” unless I have personal experience with it.”

                      It is material from the Law of One channelings which is the only one so far which I almost fully resonate with (I wouldn’t resonate with it if it weren’t in-tune with my experience if that answers your question) and what I’ve said in my last post is based on my personal understanding of it. Whether it is the truth or not I found it important to post here because it allows for a different perspective. I mean, if young souls are so bad then why isn’t my dog – an extremely young soul I guess – bad? Sounds simple but it’s something to think about. I also haven’t read anything about Edgar Cayce.

                      So what I’ve found is that the worldview given in the Ra material seems to me like a completely fresh mix between Western (duality) and Eastern (non-duality) religion, or it could simply be that it’s not a mix at all but that both Western and Eastern religion are merely distortions from the original truth (like two different pieces of the puzzle). As such, unlike many new agers I have become quite skeptical of much channeled material which to me seems like modern rehash of Eastern non-duality religion. Do you think it’s any wonder why this site lists many Eastern guru bullshitters as extremely old and enlightened souls? Avatars, are you kidding me?

                    • 31 Ken Kaplan 03 Feb 2015 at 5:30 am

                      I’m replying to your post below which therr is no reply button. First I respect the issue of resonance. That is important. But by experience I mean do you have any first hand knowledge of these things through your personal intuitive channels? I ‘ll give you an example. There is a woman, forget her name, who has written a number of books about light workers and their origins on other planets, etc., Lots of people love her stuff. But to me I have no idea if it is real or not. I accept issues of star and other system origins because I nave had strong intuitive hits about it, but to put it into a cosmology is something beyond me so i just don’t go there..

                      The reason I feel so strongly about the victim perpetrator thing and Soul Contracts is not only has it emerged as a powerful currency (Law of Attraction,Conversations with God etc) but I have had extremely significant personal intuitive and experiential encounters with it as truth. These in turn have been reinforced by a local very strong channel who was a mentor and books like Your Soul’s Plan. So resonance is important but it still would be just a belief system if I had not had authentic personal engagement, (Through mediumship) so much so I can now literally “see” the outlines of it in many people in situations.

                      The other issue is one of “outliers” Example. The Course in Miracles proposes an origin of this Universe that is contrary to almost all other mature systems including Vedanta, and most New Age cosmologies that stipulate this is all a creation of the one. The course, following Christian theology (as does the Aquarian Gospel), posits this as a “fall”, a rebellion of the Sons of God against God due to formation of ego. In other words the Lucifer rebellion renamed. Many people are so enamored of ACIM they swallow this. But to me it is nonsense and is an outlier. Edgar Cayce was in the same ball park that advanced beings became entranced with Earth and got trapped here. I don’t know but it doesn’t fit for me. I asked my Guides about ACIM and they said their theory on this point was a distortion because the channels at the time had no room for the fuller explanation and as representatives of the collective were resistant to it. So in order for the main trust to come through, which is magnificent, the corruption had to be.

                      So “devolution” in the way you describe it from my experience is an outlier. I have not seen it mentioned in this way from any other source. Could it be true? Possibly. Bur when couple with a rejection of the illusion of victim perpetrator the piece then becomes for me not valid. The only thing comparable is in Eastern philosophy in which extreme degradation leads not to a negative pole, but regression to animal form. Gurus are pretty strong on this. One of the things that has come up here is is this true or not because modern investigators say humans and animals are following different evolutionary lines and rarely cross. Here is another area in which I can’t really comment because I don’t have the depth of intuitive connection to say which theory is true. However I do believe that when you reach human form, its pretty hard to go back or even so.

                      Speaking of animals, I am concerned with your understanding of “Young Souls”. Animals are not in this equation. They have a different track. So a dog could be a more advanced being. A friend was with a group of people at a channeling and the energy said “the highest being in the room right now is the dog”. Kind of blows our human centric thinking out of the water.

                      Last. You said, “As such, unlike many new agers I have become quite skeptical of much channeled material which to me seems like modern rehash of Eastern non-duality religion. **Do you think it’s any wonder why this site lists many Eastern guru bullshitters as extremely old and enlightened souls? Avatars, are you kidding me?”**

                      Having been involved with channeling intensely for 23 years I would have to dispute that strongly. One gains in time an appreciation for the distinction and authenticity of frequency, not only in information, but in the true transmission of Divine energy and love. Its not about what is in the books. Its the living experience of God energy in this form.

                      To the second part of your statement, the great Yogic tradition is one I was “raised in” for I was the direct disciple of a true Indian Sat Guru who appeared in my dreams for years. This is home territory for me and to be kind, you are way, I mean WAY, off base in your assessment. This imo comes from lack of experience. You say you are an Old Soul, but an Old Soul would not be prone to this level of judgmental temperament or belief, and frankly ignorance. Maybe Barry’s assessment is correct and you are displaying Young Soul energy commensurate with your psychological and chronological age while developing.

                      I appreciate your commitment to this kind of knowledge and this journey. My impression is you need a lot of seasoning. You’re throwing out a lot of stuff that is not sticking and there is value in having been around for a while (long while) and separating wheat from chaff.

                    • 32 Niel 03 Feb 2015 at 12:40 pm


                      It is not because you had mediumship that it automatically makes it the truth, since you have no idea of the level and polarity of the being in contact. Thus it doesn’t matter if the information gotten was personally channeled or merely found on the internet. What matters is whether it raises your vibration or lowers it, and to know this you need to be very in touch with your own chakra system otherwise it is best to simply to stay away from it alltogether imo. This is why I like the Law of One, since it gives a practical knowledge about energy centers which you can actually feel if you pay attention. Even the densities it lists are corrolated with the 7 energy centers on a more cosmic level. E.g. 7th density is all densities combined similar to how the 7th chakra is merely the sum of all chakras. Then the acceptance of a “negative path” becomes not merely blind faith of its existence but merely a logical conclusion of extreme chakra blockage which is admitted everywhere that it is possible.

                      The Ra material also does not follow Christian theology at all and I am very much not attracted to theosophical societies and the like. I am simply not attracted to anything that proposes a kind of “spiritual hierarchy”, and for this same reason is my resistance to the soul age concept and the association of positivity and negativity with it. So better explained when I said I recently transitioned into “old soul” in my OP I merely meant I had penetrated upper chakras and as a result no longer do things that make me feel bad simply to go along with society or to further my “career” (as that would result in blockage).

                      Also, you say it’s disturbing I view animals as extremely young souls (2nd density beings) but what I find disturbing as that you view them completely out of the human experience and even more that you blindly accept the belief that a dog could be a more advanced being. Sure, their vibration can be higher because they do not yet have acces to negative polarity (choice begins in third density remember?) but that doesn’t mean it has an older soul. Total craziness imo. Reminds me of Eastern cow worship. And then I have no fucking clue how you can find it more rational to belief that descending back in animal kingdom is a more sane conclusion to a negative path/karma then merely ascending in a different place, as I personally do not see even the slightest resemblance in psychopaths and dogs for example…

                      But really, it is obvious I am an anomoly in your narrow minded system of pop spiritual psychology and soul age and that you guys are merely using this a means to further your spiritual ego’s (“I am bigger authority because I have older soul age. If you disagree with me, that means your soul age is younger than mine.”). Like you said, you have been involved in channelings for about 23 years so for all you know, you may have been mislead like no tomorrow, considering your naïvety to negativity… And it’s obvious it is clearly you who has very strong belief systems, as while I seem to be quite capable of merging different teachings together you obviously cannot find a space of the Ra material in your big head filled with spiritual nonsense.

                      I am out of here, it’s been enough…

                • 33 Ken Kaplan 03 Feb 2015 at 2:21 pm

                  To below. I agree Niels, its time to part. Thanks for sharing . In many ways it has been an illuminating conversation.

                  • 34 Niel 03 Feb 2015 at 5:11 pm

                    “In many ways it has been an illuminating conversation.”
                    That is true. =)

                    Anyways, good luck to you too.

            • 35 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 5:59 am

              P.S. Where do you get in some of Northern Europe the average is late mature/old? They are half atheist. I could see average as early to mid mature? They’re not THAT progressive. France has a huge anti semitic and Muslim problem. Germany is no picnic. Forget Spain and Italy. Scandinavia? Maybe. But late mature to old? I doubt it.

              • 36 barry 31 Jan 2015 at 10:30 am

                Sources: the original transcripts, the books and subsequent bits of channelling here and there.

                Ah, I wonder if you’re reading “northern” Europe as “western” Europe?

                France, Spain Germany and Italy are certainly not thought of as northern Europe. Essentially I mean Scandinavia and Iceland. Finland, for example, is said to be a predominantly Old soul country. Their education system is phenomenally different from what you find in countries that have a dominant Young soul population.

                All countries have a full-spectrum spread, but the largest ‘sector’ varies from one country to another. The UK and Netherlands are said to be predominantly Mature, but still with lots of Baby souls looking after Ye Olde establishment and Young souls drawing attention to themselves. The Middle East attracts Young souls who like to argue who’s right. North Korea is clearly a haven for Baby souls.

                Yes, the news media can paint a distorted picture. Whatever country you’re in, your news media is going to focus predominantly on the atrocities committed by younger souls – those who are still building up their karma. Old souls rarely make the news.

                Come to think of it, I wonder what Fox News would make of a Jewish carpenter walking around the Middle East preaching peace and love. “Like that’s ever gonna work! That crazy hippy should be handing out guns to Israeli citizens!!”

              • 37 Joe 31 Jan 2015 at 10:03 pm

                Hello Ken,

                Thanks for the reply.

                I don’t have any psychic abilities as of now. (Though my horoscope says I may develop one during my Ketu period, which is about to come and am waiting). But IMO, Many masters tell/do things as they are destined to do, in general. More specifically they speak depending on the audience. The secrets of Nature reveals themselves to the person through many channels/ways, according to its Soul evolution status. By recently I developed a witness attitude as N. Maharaj says. So things as revealed to me in bits beforehand, and I will have the fun of seeing how it got uncovered, in-front of me.

                I am not boasting or contradicting you. But I have a feeling that all is pre-determined even me having a coffee in the morning at a particular time. So everything depends on the observer to a point where what data is more convincing to him. This an observation paraphrased from quantum mechanics where Einstein said, ” I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice”.

                The same Einstein said this too, ” “Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”

                Have a great weekend.


                • 38 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 11:38 pm

                  I honor your perspective Joe. However, in context,about “dice”, Einstein was replying to Bohr over the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and Born’s discovery of the nature of the Quantum world as probabilities.

                  In this case, Bohr was right and Einstein was wrong. Einstein was also wrong on the issue of entanglement and locality.

                  Its fine if Einstein believed in determinism. I believe that at the highest level determinism is the rule. The Soul must advance. The game is set. The largest probabilities in most are like tree trunks. They don’t move.

                  However room is created at ground zero for variation.(probabilities) To illustrate.

                  A man is in a hospital room with a father he has hated all his life. A moment arises when he has the opportunity to kill him. No one will know. He struggles with the urge and decides not to, it is against his deepest principles yet he has to fight his deep hatred of the man who abused him. Years later he has a minor bicycle accident. In a profound realization, he becomes aware that his decision not to kill his father created a ripple effect that changed a major, perhaps fatal car accident into a minor encounter with a bicycle. (broken leg).

                  The determinist says the choice always was ordained. My understanding is this: The choice _point_ was ordained. The choice was not. It was a critical juncture of soul decision in which several probabilities were in play. Like the branch, not the trunk of the tree. Nothing at that point was fixed in stone. And therein lies part of the magnificence of the human adventure. This flexibility.

                  Does the man ultimately have “free will” to create chaos all over the place with his soul life and development? No.

                  I was with one of the channels that has been most significant for me over the last decade. His take was the word “contract” needed to be replaced by the word “intention”. You have an intention coming in but it can change once you get here. You plan a trip to Europe but once there your itinerary changes due to circumstance. The trip to Europe was the destiny. How it played out had a lot to do with “free will”.

                  My understanding is most souls never fulfill 100% of their intention. Also as I said, its very diverse. Some events are tightly scripted. I had powerful experiences intuitively that, for example, the JFK assassination and the Iraq War were pretty set in stone, the latter ONCE the country had collectively gone down the road where its manifestation was inevitable. But the gathering of Neo Cons and the defeat of Gore were probabilities that were not a certainty. They were one of many but once a line had been crossed fairly long before, it happened.

                  I did some intuitive writing and I was told “Bush will be the nexus point where all the contradictions of the society will come to the surface” and in 2004 I was told again “Bush has not yet finished the work he has come to do”. So it was a very strong probability, but not strictly inevitable.

                  However the overall arc of America’s development as a Super Power was inviolable. And that I think Neem Karoli Baba was speaking to because the overall concept was extremely foreign in the West.

                  Bohr Einstein can be found here.

                  You might look at this also for it beautifully reflectsNKBsentiments

                  We set things up. How we deal with them imo has fluidity. That’s what gives real juice to the game.

    • 39 Ken Kaplan 29 Jan 2015 at 10:09 pm

      Very interesting post. If you are an old soul I would suggest the latter rather than the former. To come into this level early suggest it has been achieved before you arrived and are accelerating. Not so sure its universal Old Souls don’t get involved in causes (you stipulate “sacrifice themselves”.) My Guru was at Sat Guru level and his entire movement was a cause and Dalai Lama is pretty involved.

      Color white comes from Michael Newton’s “Journey of Sous” and refers to soul color on the other side. In his experience advanced Souls move from blue to violet. He couldn’t go beyond that as his subjects had limitations. Whether he’s right or not I don’t know.

      Agree with the next level assessment. Barry has pointed out that in the Michael teachings there are two major stages beyond the non physical so you would deal with higher vibration causal realms, etc.

      I have not come across a “negative path evolution”. Souls may travel that road for a while but it is my understanding the foundational arc is toward growth and integration. From what I have seen there are many reasons a Soul could be a psychopath so I would be careful to not generalize.

      Best of luck (which doesn’t exist.) My hope is your vibration will add to the world. My belief and experience is a lot of advanced Souls are coming in because the planet needs their energy, wisdom, and gifts. Its not time imo for a Cosmic vacation here.

      • 40 Niel 30 Jan 2015 at 10:59 pm

        Hi Ken,

        What I mean by “not sacrificing for a cause” is that you can no longer help the cause if you have sacrificed yourself, so why sacrifice yourself for it then? I did not mean to say that causes are useless, but what I said was specifically targeted to mature souls who put the cause (or others) on a pedestal but neglect themselves in so doing (instead of putting themselves and the cause/others on equal footing). Like Barry wrote mature’s are basically the opposite of young’s, in that the former put others on a pedestal whereas the latter puts him-/herself on a pedestal. And this is where old souls come in in that we seek a balance between these two modes of functioning.

        And yes, I agree what you said about Michael Newton in that old souls are trying to go from blue to violet instead of white. This is because I think white is too perfect to achieve so the closest that comes to it is violet.

        About your reply to the “negative path”:
        The Law of One calls it the service-to-self path. Many of our worldly leaders are in fact on this path and many wars have been fought. I am only saying this because this site seems to have some rose-coloured glasses on when it comes to bad things happening. For example, wars are blamed on child and young souls, while in fact, they are the result of negative old souls puppeteering/manipulating these younger souls, in other words, they are psychopaths (no, an infant soul is not a psychopath). So it is for example true that young souls like competition but a healthy young soul would not go so far as destroy the planet for it or sacrifice other people to win the “game” like in war. This is again, the workings of these service-to-selfers. And apparantly there does not just exist positive upper dimensions/causal realms like this site implies, but also negative “upper” dimensions/causal realms which is where these negative old souls are working on to end up. Believe it or not, but without them our world would be much better off, and it has hard for us to understand but they actually NEED to accumulate bad karma in order to end up there!

        • 41 Ken Kaplan 30 Jan 2015 at 11:40 pm

          I agree with you about the sacrificing part. The other I can’t really comment on because frankly in 45 years on this path i have never heard of it. I teach on Soul contracts and my experience is everything is ordered around here and everywhere and that “Through ALL things is love revealed”. I’ve dealt for years with very high local channels so I’m not dependent on one lens and this view for me does not compute.

          In Conversations With God, “God” said about Hitler, “If a madman walks off a cliff and 30 million follow, is the mad man to blame?” Abraham flatly stated “Governments do not make war, the collective makes war through its leaders” I had a personal vision from Gerald Ford after watching Frost-Nixon in which he confirmed this position. (As did William F Buckley-I’m a Medium and a lot of famous people have come to me.) Nixon said, “You must learn to have compassion even for one such as I” (exact words). Now he’s in a very good place. It amazes me. I hated him when he was alive, Now he’s kind of a spiritual friend.

          Your view implies perpetrator-victim. And that somehow things are out of place. I have learned perpetrator-victim is an illusion and nothing is out of place. At the highest level it is all by collective agreement. I agree with Michael. Most abusers (unless a mature contracts for it) are baby-young. The mature Soul and above has no interest or inclination in worldly power or wealth for its own sake. And the society draws the leaders it needs as its expression for the lessons it needs. Remember, its all connected.

          That’s why there are so m any baby souls in power in America right now. Karmic payback, imo, dictated it. We have a lot to burn off.

          • 42 Niels 31 Jan 2015 at 1:58 pm

            “Your view implies perpetrator-victim. And that somehow things are out of place. I have learned perpetrator-victim is an illusion and nothing is out of place. At the highest level it is all by collective agreement. I agree with Michael. Most abusers (unless a mature contracts for it) are baby-young.”
            Ah, now I understand the distortion of these teachings. You are unwilling to admit a negative spiritual evolution (or devolution) so all evil doings must be attributed to baby and young souls. And since you identify as a mature soul, this automatically makes you a good/spiritual person who can never do wrong again (as you already went through that “phase”). Such narcissism…
            And no, perpetrator-victim is not an illusion simply because it is not part of your or my reality. IT IS THE REALITY OF THE NEGATIVE SOULS. The negative path is a pyramid, with everyone in that pyramid being simultaneously the victim of those on top and the perpetrator to those below. Stepping out of the perpetator-victim cycle doesn’t mean your soul age has grown, but simply that you switched polarity from negativity to positivity. This is the entire error of the Michael teachings, the unwillingness to recognize two paths, good and evil. (“Omg, he speaks about good and evil! Must be a baby soul then!” Nono my friend, old souls are balancing themselves remember? Hence why we again acknowledge good and evil… (although a much more refined perspective))

            You also talk about everything that happens being a premade agreement on a higher level (error: future is unknown, only guesses can be made). Look, the only agreement that has been made was your incarnation at your time and place. No one “agrees” for the distorted roles of abuse or abuser (unless you are trying to polarize negatively), and no one actually needs this experience (again, unless you are trying to polarize negatively).

            I actually regret leaving a comment now because I see that you are actually the ones in need of teaching and not vice versa…

            • 43 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 4:59 pm

              I never said all evil must be attributed to baby or young souls. Life is much more complex than that. But if I look in America, most of what I consider “evil” is being perpetrated by baby and young souls. The tea party is a baby soul movement. (So is the Taliban and ISIS) Chris Christie who is a terrible bully is a young soul. Bin Laden Was cunning. But his essence was baby-young. Romney is a young soul playing with baby souls. Stalin most likely was young (“all for me”). Reagan was baby-young (and he has apologized profusely for his behavior.) Do you really think Idi Amin was a mature soul?

              I would like to see some examples of these “devolved souls”. It would be helpful to clarify your thinking and what you have learned. Either Jeffrey Dahmer was “devolved” or he was a very young soul who had not yet developed any empathy and still was in a phase where cruelty intrigued him and he may have enjoyed inflicting pain on others. The latter makes sense to me.

            • 44 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 5:27 pm

              Last point. “No one “agrees” for the distorted roles of abuse or abuser (unless you are trying to polarize negatively), and no one actually needs this experience (again, unless you are trying to polarize negatively)”

              The first experience I had with all this was way before I knew anything about it. (20 years ago) A friend of mine called me one day and was terribly distraught. A young female friend of his had been murdered in Center City, Philadelphia. She was 23. We took a walk in a center City Park and he was beside himself. I had no idea what I could say to him and was just trying to be with him.

              Suddenly, as if it descended from the sky, a cone of brilliant light surrounded me and I heard my own voice saying ” her death was prearranged by her as a sacrifice for those around here so they might deepen their appreciation of the sanctity of life”. Not only were there these words but a powerful wave of peace not only embraced me but went out like a wave and embraced my friend. He immediately calmed down. said that he deeply felt the energy and the truth of the words. It was an extremely profound moment. Years later I was led to start working more with this issue. I didn’t go looking for it. Since I have medium ability it fit in well.

              Is there some possibility of soul “devolution”? Can souls go backward? Sure. In Joel Whitton’s “Life Between Life” (He was an “interlife hypnotherapist like Michael Newton), a young woman had contracted for a major, wonderful life as a concert musician and blew the contract completely by going off a cliff high on alcohol and drugs in her 30’s. (this was in the 30’s or 40’s). The woman who showed up in Whitton’s office for counseling was an “emergency incarnation” put together by her guides to get he back on track. This was the most extreme example I have ever run across.

              You wrote “Ah, now I understand the distortion of these teachings. You are unwilling to admit a negative spiritual evolution (or devolution) so all evil doings must be attributed to baby and young souls. And since you identify as a mature soul, this automatically makes you a good/spiritual person who can never do wrong again (as you already went through that “phase”). Such narcissism…”

              This is a pretty big red flag for me as you are ascribing egotistic personal motives to this journey that just are not present. I readily admit I make plenty of mistakes in this life and my worst wrong, which I am working on, is badly I treat myself.

              One does not have to hurt others to “sin” (make error- the original meaning)

            • 45 Ecky 31 Jan 2015 at 11:10 pm

              hi Niels,
              An interesting take.
              I have read before about the astral plane extending into both positive and negative directions. I has also read of demons as well as certain alien beings (esp. lizards) dominating the negative astral planes, and that even the ‘naughtiest’ of humans usually slot underneath that pyramid where they can be abused by those above them and abuse those below them. I have even read these beings encourage negativity on earth for the sole intention of mentally enslaving humans to towards a negative astral plan past so life so they can be further abused there. Whilst, I have read of such things but cannot verify much of it, the possible exception being accidentally exorcising an aquaintance one time from some demonic influence during a candle-chakra meditation.
              At the same time, coming back to Ken’s point, I would be interested to hear the name of just “one” purported Mature or Old soul involved in such a negative pyramid. There must be one name you can mention to prove your point.
              Otherwise we are left with the possibility of a negative astral world frequented by Infant/Baby/Young Souls but no Mature/Old Souls.

              • 46 Ken Kaplan 31 Jan 2015 at 11:56 pm

                My reply would ask to go a level higher. In some respects it mirrors the age old issue of whether the Devil exists or not and if so in what capacity. We must ultimately remember who we truly are and what this sand box is about. EVERYTHING is God. No exceptions. EVERYTHING in essence is light and love. This Universe from my understanding was created to explore every inch, every facet, every angle of _separation_. Therefore at the highest level where we are always one with our true self, there is collective agreement on all parameters of the experience for everything is needed. Otherwise it would not come into existence. If we fall into the dualistic stance (this is good, that is bad) we leave unity consciousness.

                This is not to minimize the issue of suffering that comes with the territory. But as I said before often one can not fully appreciate one’s light without dark. Whoever or whatever, if true, is drawn toward that game, it is temporary.The wave cannot not be the ocean, no matter what its form.

                And as Abraham says such experiences can only happen if one attracts them and somehow wants to play in that part of the sand box. There is no “God of dark”, only absence of light.

                We have enough issues of us ordinary humans creating problems to worry about paranormal beings messing with us. And if certain theories are true that Governments entered into deals with alien races, it was part of consent and the plan anyway.

                I got very sick emotionally. I believed demons were after me. They weren’t. It was my mind gone awry. My Guru at one stage specifically came into a dream and told me to cut it out. This is not to say entity attachment from guys who want to hang around doesn’t happen. But again, you have to attract it. So its an interesting theory but for me has no practical application for my life.

                You either are the creator of your reality or you aren’t. There is no middle ground.

  7. 47 Ecky 31 Jan 2015 at 9:48 pm

    A thought provoking discussion and I for one appreciate the “grizzled mature souls” keeping us all grounded here. I also think 20-21st century years of experience probably count double-triple compared to earlier eras!
    I do think the age filtering of soul age works: as a pre-pubescent I diligently attended sunday school and read my Bible, as a teen I fanatically competed in all kinds of sports, as a young adult I melodramatically pined over unrequited love for girls while listening to The Cure, then indeed around mid-late 30’s I gradually found myself thinking “what was all that drama about”.
    Now I focus on a life where I can pursue my multiple interests with maximum freedom and minimum interference from others. I look for work with the “maximum pay per effort ratio” where I can apply street smarts rather than blood/sweat/tears. Power over others completely disinterests me, I have found power of myself to be a sufficient and rewarding challenge. I also hang out with those who naturally like me without feeling in any way compelled to ‘force’ anyone to like me who simply doesn’t want to. If a million like me, good. If a million people set-up an ‘anti-me’ blog site, equally good, go for it. I also feel innerly obligated to share my career knowledge with others.
    Have occassional clashes with the Baby soul bureaucrats in the supposedly ‘Old’ Soul country I live in, but usually plan a few steps ahead to tie them up in their own knots, even though they are persistent little buggers (of Love). I think I am learning not to tease this particular group so much as they take eons to calm down. I have a Priest Essence so always ike to tease always for a higher moral purpose, but this only seems to stir up the proverbial hornets nest as the Babies try to whack me back with their own unstable version of morality. Unlike Young Souls who you can provoke, they say something over-confident but shallow, you show that to them, they calm down fast and with a little luck maybe learned something in the process. Young soul teasing is a 1-2 game. Baby soul teasing is more a 1-2…50, as they are far less vulnerable to facts/logic/truth/reason/ethics – such petty trivialties barely touch them at all.
    Still I wonder if there is any country truly governed by Old Souls, aka Philosopher-kings in the jargon of Plato? I can’t put my finger on one. Even if you do have an Old ruler like Lincoln, you can be fairly share the bureuacracy underneath them is dominated by Baby Souls keeping things under their inherently fickle view of “order”.
    I also think the Soul Age – personality development works in reverse though: have a big strong happy two year old son who cries when he sees other children fighting or hears low quality or sad music. But he is as equal and oppositely happy when he sees people singing/dancing or happy, quality music, so am sure he’s at least Mature level little Sage even though he’s just two, as it still shines through him.

  8. 48 Dwayne 01 Feb 2015 at 7:01 pm

    What’s the origin of new souls?

    • 49 barry 02 Feb 2015 at 2:18 pm

      Here’s my current understanding, Dwayne:

      First, let’s drop the idea that some almighty being (God) decided one day to create a lot of lesser beings (souls), to see if they turned out good or evil.

      The essence of all beings is one. There is nothing in existence that isn’t an integral part of that one.

      There is only one essence, but it has infinite potential and can take infinitely different forms — different forms of energy, of matter, of consciousness.

      A soul is a form of essence that is growing in consciousness.

      Souls are not created individually, one at a time. Rather, they emerge en masse. First there emerges a single wave of energy and consciousness. Second, the wave “explodes” into many individual consciousnesses.

      Just as light can exist both as a single wave of energy AND as many particles of light (Quantum Physics 101), so any single wave of consciousness can also exist as many individual particles of consciousness. That’s what souls are — a wave of consciousness that has taken the form of many particles or fragments.

      Each soul exists in its own right, with its own unique identity. And yet at the same time, each soul remains an integral component of the one essence, completely unified with it, and is never separated from it.

      In effect, each soul is a point at which essence has become conscious of itself, but doesn’t yet know it.

      Souls are implicitly aware of this from the start, but they lack explicit understanding. This is what reincarnation gives them. The sense of separation that comes from inhabiting a physical body stimulates the soul’s consciousness to seek, question, experiment, explore, and make choices of its own volition. Each new incarnation offers a different slant on the illusion of separation and the choices it throws up.

      The creation, or rather emergence, of souls is a continuous process, part of the eternal pulse of essence.

      • 50 Ken Kaplan 02 Feb 2015 at 3:50 pm

        I would like to add a few things. Because we are human, we process linearly and in terms of our perception. Thus we think of Souls as individual, like us. But the Soul as expressed here may or most likely be a part of a larger consciousness that is also a “Soul” or “our soul”. Individuation exists in many realms but may be different than how we perceive it here.

        Michael Newton said only a portion of the Soul takers incarnation. When I was with Van Paagh at Omega this question came up in this form. “what if I want to connect to my mother but she’s already reincarnated?” The answer came almost immediately from Spirit that what appears here is a slice or “sliver” of the total Soul. Michael says it is a collection of many souls (aspects) of a larger whole. Same with Abraham and other channels. They are a collection of consciousnesses.

        So the “technology” of the Soul at levels beyond the physical may be larger and beyond our understanding and how they present to us is in a manner that we can fathom. My father comes to me as I knew him, but if we have had many lives together, it would not be helpful for him to come in the form from another incarnation. So we are multidimensional in ways we probably right now can’t undrrstand..

        A friend of mine died and connected with a very close friend of hers. The one living one evening walked on the porch said “Elena” where are you?”. The one who died said “I am everywhere. It is incredible to feel so free.”

        But Barry has outlined the basic process. We are emanations of light consciousness that are eternally one with the Source. Like the wave of the ocean or your hand to your body. The Soul is an expressive aspect of Unity Consciousness and the whole is contained fully in the part. Separation ultimately is an illusion.

  9. 51 Helen 01 Feb 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Hi Barry & Ken
    This is a question for Ken.
    I have believd in reincarnation ever since I can remember, but only began to spiritually waken up late 2012. I still have a long way to go as most of the stuff on here goes waaayyyy over my head.
    I have often wondered about my life prior to this one. As a medium, can you give me some clues? It seems full of karma, extreme highs and lows. Sometimes this life seems as a ‘rest’ from the one before. As a medium, I hope you can enlighten me.
    I have seen other mediums but they just gloss over previous lives, and are vague in the extreme. I certainly do not like the idea of being regressed at all. It feels like it it something just out of sight, barely out of reach. It has nagged away at me for a long time. I have this urge I need to know. I don’t know why.
    I would be very grateful for your kind help on this matter. Thank you.
    Love to you, Barry, & your families.

    • 52 Ken Kaplan 02 Feb 2015 at 5:36 am


      This is not a forte of mine. But I will share this. I think trying to “know” about past lives is not always fruitful. Whatever karma you carried into this life is expressed in the circumstances, people, and events of your life. Most people on this path have come in wanting to expand, get closer to source and deal with issues of empathy and power.

      Its one thing to regress and experience the prior source of a problem in this life, another to just intellectually know it. Often the knowledge is not true or clear and even if you know, it probably will not help. I got a reading from a channel that screwed with my head for weeks and I don’t even know if it was accurate and even so would have only been a small slice of a very big pie.

      I would suggest that time is better spent in using the amazing tools that Spirit (God) is providing at this time to clear issues and raise your vibration and connection. If you want more insight into how all this works, I suggest Journey of Souls by Michael Newton and particularly Your Soul’s Plan by Robert Schwartz (both good deals used on Amazon.)

      The issue now is you are here and dealing with what is in front of you is the goal. And if you really need to know, at the appropriate time usually that information will be provided.

      After reading those books, especially the second, you will have more information to assess your life and understand the karmic pieces and lessons you wanted to work on this time around.

      Be patient. Everything you need is being provided.

      • 53 Helen 02 Feb 2015 at 1:26 pm

        Hi Ken
        Thank you very much for your quick reply. I have read your advice and I appreciate your words of wisdom. I am very glad I came across this website as it has helped me to understand things that were once an enigma.
        Wishing you happiness & health.

        • 54 Ken Kaplan 02 Feb 2015 at 3:32 pm

          You are welcome.

  10. 55 Oliver 04 Feb 2015 at 2:49 pm

    This is the best explanation of stages of reincarnation I’ve found, but does this mean that you can’t consciously speed up your soul evolution? In which case it’s a very disempowering view. Most spiritual teachings hold that through meditation you can increase your rate of soul growth. Because by witnessing in meditation your ordinary mind and self-sense you are freeing yourself from them, and thereby making it easier for new stages to emerge.

    Or through loving-kindness meditation you are consciously increasing the number of beings you love, and thereby becoming less selfish (more mature). This should surely mean that if somebody practised meditation throughout their life, they should be able to evolve more quickly than normal. Do the Michael Teachings say that this is impossible or is there a teaching on it that I’ve missed?

    • 56 Ken Kaplan 04 Feb 2015 at 3:46 pm


      From my experience (not sure what Michael teachings say) I have a few responses (and just got an intuitive hit so I will pass it on). First when you say “conscious” are you referring to the conscious mind? Because it is the least powerful instrument we have. The idea we can “will” our way to growth bypasses so many complex processes not just at the psychological-emotional level but at the Soul level as well. We must remember from the higher points, “who” is doing “what”. What is the interface of intention, movement and choice between “higher self” and personality ego consciousness?

      The issue of a need to “speed up” may not be in the Soul’s interest. We are here for certain experiences and lessons. Why circumvent them? Do we go to a really good restaurant or a great vacation to rush through it? Or is the full depth of the experience what we want?

      That said, I read in Joel Whitton’s “Life Between Life”, one of his clients began accelerating and moved so fast that he began bringing in elements of his future lives to his present one. So from that account I guess anything is possible.

      Here’s the trick though. IMO. In anything you must come from the heart without any conscious “intention” to do this. Otherwise, the mind is involved and corrupts the process and the very thing you think you want is thwarted because it is not genuine but ego driven, no matter how “noble” the intentions.

      It goes back to the Yogic idea of surrendering the fruits of one’s actions. Entrance into the heart of Source must be pure.

      I have a friend who writes and speaks on spiritual topics. She often would say, “I look at people on stage at conferences and want to be there”. I replied” The only way you’ll get there is to attend to the present and whatever is meant for you will unfold. Otherwise its an ego trip””.

      Its an unusual irony. One has to let go to get. Therefore my advice is to stay true to your *sincerity* in connection to “God”. Ram Das used to say, “There are those who ‘want to want God’ and there are those who ‘want God'”.

      There is a difference. I would concentrate on deepening authentically your connection and communion. The rest will take care of itself. Then how “fast” you move won’t matter because you will be amazed at the journey.

    • 57 b a r r y 04 Feb 2015 at 4:18 pm

      We all evolve inexorably, bit by bit, through each life. If one chooses a life goal of Growth, then the life lessons to be learned will come thick and fast compared to lives with other goals. It is said that a life of Growth is like cramming three or four lives into one. But the result is just one incremental step up in evolution. We don’t skip steps in order to graduate faster. What would be the value in that?

      Speeding up is never required; it’s just a matter of free choice. If and when a soul desires to evolve more quickly, then it is free to do so. And it is natural for many mature and old souls to consider consciouly supporting their spiritual evolution while incarnate, through meditation or whatever. But there is no necessity for any soul to do so.

      In fact, one could evolve the whole way, from step 1 to the final step, without ever meditating or being “spiritual” while incarnate. Life provides the lessons anyway, and the soul assimilates the lessons between lives. Only from our human perspective does “speeding up” or “evolving more quickly” sound important. From the soul’s perspective, time and speed are just features of the physical realm, not our spiritual Home. Moreover, even if one can accelerate one’s evolution to the max, it isn’t rally feasible to jump and lessons or levels. We evolve by exploring and ultimately transcending all aspects of our being, both in ourselves and in relation to one another, step by step. The rate at which we evolve is, like everything else we do, our own free choice.

      • 58 Ken Kaplan 04 Feb 2015 at 4:25 pm

        Just to piggy back. In Journey of Souls, “Growth Lives” are called “Accelerated lives”. I’m in one. Contrary to the nice view of lots more sweet meditation they are very intense and usually you get the kitchen sink thrown at you.

        • 59 b a r r y 04 Feb 2015 at 4:38 pm

          That’s affirmative!

  11. 60 Lisa 12 Feb 2015 at 2:38 pm

    I want to see if this works before I write

    • 61 barry 12 Feb 2015 at 2:52 pm

      I believe it has

  12. 62 Lisa 12 Feb 2015 at 5:24 pm

    Hello Ken and Barry, thank you for writing such an informative and thought provoking article. I have never seen it broken into steps like that, it’s been fun watching the back and forth kinda like a mini spirit soap opera, one I doubt I could have remained calm through. While reading the steps I tried to figure out where I would be but I don’t think it would be too accurate, if you ask people close to the questioner it would probably be more accurate but cause a few arguments. Then don’t we just start again? Wondering.
    Most everything I agree with you guys on and it feels familiar, I grew up like so many kids in the U.S. Little church girl, my mother pushed it very hard she was Sunday school teacher etc. I was forbidden to talk to my Grandfather about anything spiritual, at the time he was part of the original group that began Scientology before it was Scientology but they had a big falling out because my Grandfather was against turning it into a religion. Not that this makes any difference but that is what I grew up with, reading Cayce and Lobsang, Ruth Mongomery and Wilkerson ( one of his friends) .
    Now for the…. Wait for it… Wait for it big but… Ken, it threw me a bit when you began referring to the conscious mind as being weak and I don’t claim to have any spirit guides or remember any past lives, but recently information had the same feeling of always knowing something as when discovering reincarnation for the first time. Ha if that even made sense, regardless I would love to hear your thoughts on how the concepts in post materialistic sciences’s manifesto fits in? For me it was an aha moment where it feels like ghosts around the edges while tying so many things together. Thank you again for all your time and dedication

    • 63 Ken Kaplan 12 Feb 2015 at 10:12 pm

      First of all if you were immersed in those things when you were young, then you came in pretty advanced because its a frequency thing and you wouldn’t have matched up if you weren’t already in resonance. No accidents. Law of Attraction and all that.

      I don’t remember saying the conscious mind is weak. I do hold that the intellect which is the primary operating system for the conscious mind is our most limited system for apprehending reality. One can access the “Self” through intuition which is a higher functional apparatus and the conscious mind can be involved but in general people live through the intellect.

      I’m not sure which “manifestos” of post materialistic science you are referring to. Their philosophical materialism and atheism or their recognition that the quantum world is starting to resemble Vedanta and Buddhism?

      Tell me what you are referring to. The atheists are just ignorant imo hopelessly. They just have to play out their game.

  13. 64 Ben 22 Feb 2015 at 2:35 pm

    This was the most interesting thing that I have read in a long time. I was brought up in a fairly fundamental, Christian believing family. I am in the early stages of finding myself slowly walking away from the fundamental scene and finding myself being more open to learning about other views on the reality of truth. I have a question in relation to the age of our souls: I am just wondering why my other family members are far more compassionate and loving people in general than I am and yet they are the ones who are caught up in fundamentalism? If I am finding myself being drawn away from fundamentalism and being drawn instead to the things being shared in this article, should there be some kind of correlation in my growth in realtion to compassion and love etc….or not necessarily? I want to help my family see further outside the box, but who am I to say anything to them when they have more important things down pat than me?
    So, I guess I’m just curious if I am an older soul than any of my family members. I’m 31 years old now and have started to experience quite a lot of positive change and growth over the past few years, where as my family members haven’t appeared to have changed so much, but as I stated above, they were already quite loving and compassionate people.

    • 65 Ken Kaplan 22 Feb 2015 at 11:55 pm


      Its very hard to offer an opinion or perspective from generalities. You say they are “more compassionate than you”. What does that look like? How does it manifest? Are you being hard on yourself?

      Emotional patterns arise often from karmic circumstance. Sometimes innate temperament. Are you hostile, unforgiving, irritable, self centered? Were you wounded when young through some family or circumstantial experience? The list goes on.

      People can be *personally* generous while being developmentally younger. One key is are your family “compassionate” to those truly different. People tend to be kind to those “in the tribe” but can be very challenging to the “other”. The South is famous for personal hospitality and warmth, but to a point. Those outside the “circle” (minorities, gays. “liberals”) do not qualify. Thus you can find extraordinary warmth to family and vicious societal norms, as was the South pre 1960’s.

      I don’t think there is a rule or correlation to Soul Age and personal kindness. I see many truly young Souls on TV who display great generosity . One good example is Danny Koker, the owner of “Count’s Customs” on Counting Cars on History. Koker to me is quintessential young soul. But he has a very kind heart and often will go out of his way to help a client and cares deeply about the quality of his work and often extends himself for those with a personal cause.

      I would have to know more to comment more completely.

    • 66 barry 23 Feb 2015 at 3:42 pm

      Hi Ben

      You say your family are “caught up” in fundamentalism. You could be totally right in your choice of words, though as Ken points out, without knowing more it’s not easy to assess the situation from “out here”. It’s clear that breaking free from the fundamentalist mindset/culture is important for you, as I’m sure it would be for me if I were in your shoes. That doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone of a similar soul age would act the same way, however.

      If your goal for this life is Growth, which I suspect it is given your attraction to learning and personal change, then you will be driven to expand your sense of truth and reject whatever doesn’t fit. On the other hand, the family members you mention could have a goal of Acceptance, which makes showing greater love/compassion more of a priority than finding greater truth/meaning.

      Religion is often a supportive “space” for the development and expression of Acceptance (especially those varieties of religion that emphasise love-thy-neighbour). So while it’s true that committed fundamentalists are usually Baby going-on-Young souls, it can also be the case that older souls who are pursuing Acceptance rather than Growth simply join in with what’s in their vicinity, rather than make an issue out of it. It’s a different commitment: inter-personal harmony rather than intra-personal congruity.

      A phrase that comes to my mind is: “if it ain’t broken, don’t try to fix it.”

      I even wonder if perhaps your current life challenge/lesson is to do with choosing change for yourself and yourself alone — accepting the validity of choices made by others which you yourself wouldn’t make.

      Food for thought… :)

  14. 67 Ana 26 Feb 2015 at 10:42 am

    Thank you very much for this article, I read all of Michael Newton’s books and this makes a lot of sense for me. How did you find out you are mature soul? So after you pass all steps, you are free soul and would not re encarnate again? Still not understanding the final goal… would you kindly explain in simple terms what is there for our souls after we have completed your learning journey and finished all stages of learning? Do we unite with God, if there is a God? Do you think Jesus was a mature soul living the final stage? I don’t recall souls “seeing” God and Jesus in MNs studies… Sorry so many questions. Regards, Ana.

    • 68 Ken Kaplan 28 Feb 2015 at 3:23 am

      If one is honest you can kind of find yourself on the spectrum. What are your goals, your temperament, your deepest impulses? Do you empathize with others, are you “out of the conventional box” spiritually, do you feel open to higher perspectives? Those are mature Soul attributes. Look at a show like “Shark Tank” It is almost purely Young Soul Energy. Are you like that or are the values of accumulation and “recognition”behind you?

      “Freedom” is a tricky word in the context of this matrix. Because it encourages linear thinking. Therefore “freedom”: lies “there” somewhere. But freedom is our inner process as the issue of “here” and “there”, “then” and “now” is an illusion. There is only “now” and when the future comes it will still be “now”. So development has to happen within the incarnation and within self here and now and is a revelatory process.

      Uniting with “God’ is also a process since it is “re-uniting” with that which you already are. This is called “awakening” or “remembering”. Since who or what we are is infinite, the idea we can catalog what that experience may be “down the road” is kind of fruitless as it is beyond the mind’s conception. There apparently are realms beyond the physical so there is expansion beyond this experience but my life has taught me if one concentrates on the present and cultivates one’s connection to one’s inner Source (aka “God”), things tend to take care of themself.

      So the “final goal’ actually is whatever you are doing right now. For there is no other authentic moment to be in. Just attend to that. Deepen and you will see how Grace is present in everything. It does get quite remarkable and then this other stuff doesn’t matter.

      Jesus was an old soul, not mature.

      What are “MN” studies?

      • 69 barry 01 Mar 2015 at 12:26 pm

        Michael Newton presumably.

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