Those undergoing the fourth stage of reincarnation are known as mature souls. At this stage, life is about embracing otherness — other perspectives, other people, other cultures, other parts of one’s own being.


Knowing Me, Knowing You


The lives of mature souls focus on exploring the true nature of self, life and especially others. Reaching beyond the forthright independence of the third stage, the major challenge at this fourth stage is to discover how to live inter-dependently with others, and other-ness in general.

So …

  • Whereas the young soul focuses on being assertive, competitive and successful, the mature soul focuses on being sensitive, cooperative and authentic.
  • Whereas a young soul insists that its own perspective is right, the mature soul recognises that other perspectives are equally valid.
  • Whereas for the young soul self-interest is all-important, the mature soul is more concerned with the self-other relationship.

Mature Soul Perceptions

The mature soul develops an ever-deepening sense of both self and others. Life is no longer simply a matter of what happens out there in the world, but also what is going on “in here”, where we are coming from, what it all means.

Through understanding more and more of its own psychology, the mature soul also learns about what makes others tick. They come to recognise that all others are their equals, at least on the inside. In fact, their own perspective is nothing but one among many equally valid perspectives.

In other words:

I see life from my perspective and you see life from your perspective. I accept that my point of view is just another perspective, and not necessarily the only ‘correct’ one. All perspectives are equally valid. And we can arrive at mutual understanding by sharing our perspectives with each other.

As an aside, you can see something of this respect for others’ perspectives in, for example, the films of Steven Spielberg (a Mature Artisan). Whereas stories like Jaws and War of the Worlds could have been little more than routine action movies, the director manages to show the validity and fluidity of each character’s perspective – whether child or adult, male or female, strong or weak.


At this level there is also the development of empathy — appreciating others’ experiences from their perspective.

I can appreciate how you experience life. I can perceive life as you perceive it. I know how you feel, and I understand why. Though our perceptions are not the same, we are all the same on the inside.

But the mature soul’s sense of self can become confusing because of this empathy with others:

I am very aware of how you perceive me, how you feel about me. I can also identify with you, yet I am not you. So who am I?

The mature soul keeps being reminded that all perspectives are valid but not necessarily correct, and that there are perspectives on perspectives on perspectives… So begins the search for a deeper truth that will ultimately lead back to oneness.

Other Mature Soul Characteristics

In contrast to the outward-bound adventures of the young soul, there is at this level an inward focus on perceptions, meanings, issues, relationships and the meaning of life.

Mature souls seek understanding, authenticity and integrity, especially in relationships, but also in other aspects of life including art and spirituality. They come to appreciate both the diversity and complexity of life, but there can be a lot of ‘naval gazing’ as they struggle to get to the bottom of it all.

Because of their willingness to accept and include others, and their empathy for others’ experiences, mature souls can be overly self-critical at times. While young souls tend to blame anyone but themselves for their own problems, mature souls will readily look for their own faults.

And whereas young souls like to have their own opinions and assert them forcibly, mature souls are more ambivalent when it comes to taking sides on any issue.

At the beginning of the stage, they will tend to reject and criticise the competitive, materialistic thrust of young soul culture. (Ironically, many mature soul writers, artists and performers have achieved fame and fortune this way.)

But by the end of the stage – sensitive to life’s complexities – the very fact of holding a strong black-and-white opinion for or against anything (even against young soul culture!) comes to seem dubious and even absurd.

Mature Soul Relationships

More than any at other soul stage, mature souls are likely to bond for life in a positive, loving, intimate partnership. It is a time for soul mates to get together and help each other work through their issues to create a mature, healthy relationship.

At this level, love is generally experienced and expressed as appreciation, a genuine acceptance of the otherness of another.

Irrespective of whether you make me feel good or not, and irrespective of how you feel about me, I love you for who you are.

The mature soul is attracted to opportunities to express this appreciation of otherness, or diversity, the more unfamiliar and ‘alien’ the better. For example, one may develop a love of exotic wildlife or of foreign cultures.

Mature Soul Lifestyles

Mature souls can have sophisticated, avant-garde or post-modern sensibilities, but in private they may struggle with basic emotional issues. Because life is now all about optimising one’s relationships with anything and everything, mature souls can find life to be intensely complex and stressful, filled with emotional turmoil, sometimes overwhelmingly so. Inner conflict is very common.

Hence there is often a need to find time and space for introspection, or psychotherapy, or perhaps an artistic outlet, to confront the confusion and negativity within oneself.

Hence also a desire to keep well away from both the enforced limitations of baby soul cultures and the me-first competitiveness of young soul cultures. Do it any place but here is the mature soul motto, and this often shows in their facial expression.

There also emerges at this level a desire to explore the deeper and quieter forms of spirituality, such as Zen Buddhism. Mature souls tend to gravitate to liberal, multicultural places like London and San Francisco, though they prefer the relative tranquillity of the suburbs to the push and shove of the city centre.

Some Famous Mature Souls

There are many well-known mature souls, predominantly in the arts. In contrast to the “can do, will do” attitude of young souls, it is the subtlety, sensitivity and sincerity behind mature soul accomplishments that makes them stand out. Many of the world’s great artists, novelists and musicians have been mature souls, including Botticelli, Michaelangelo, William Shakespeare, Virginia Woolf, Dostoyevsky and Van Gogh

Mature souls: Michaelangelo, Shakespeare, and Van Gogh

… as well as Mozart, who apparently reincarnated as Michael Jackson.

The same soul? W.A. Mozart and Michael Jackson

Many of the world’s great movie actors are mature souls (as opposed to self-stylerd movie stars, who tend to be young souls). As the mature Artisan Michael Caine has said, a movie star will want to change a script to better suit their public image, while a movie actor will change themselves to better fit the script. Some obvious examples of Mature soul actors include Kate Winslet, Johnny Depp, Meryl Streep and Helena Bonham Carter.

Soul mates? Mature Artisans Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter

In the field of politics, mature soul leaders tend to be liberal, inclusive and internationalist rather than conservative and nationalistic. This is something many baby and young souls can find incomprehensible and detestable.

Recent examples include Tony Blair and Barack Obama (both typically earnest Mature Priests).

Tony Blair Barack Obama


The Five Stages of Reincarnation

Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3
Stage 4
Stage 5
Infant Soul Baby Soul Young Soul Mature Soul Old Soul

139 Responses to “Stage 4: The Mature Soul”

  1. 1 Picnicl 12 May 2014 at 3:58 pm

    A mature soul can and does exist at any age of life. The problem is that many adults make a mockery of it. These adults might have mature physical or specific knowledge based skills and rudimentary diplomatic skills but they don’t have the kind of intense emotional skills that make someone feel unconditionally loved and supported with an understanding of how the past has been and how the future can be with the right planning. Many adults now seem to carry around this baggage of selfish guilt that they can never properly dispose of.

  2. 2 Yanling Chin 14 Jun 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Hi Barry,

    Michael Teachings as recommended by Finding Your Soul is regarded by me as a “life study”. To gain more insights, grow up and built up wisdom in the meantime. Thank you for creating this website, providing another source to gain wisdom. However, I am “stuck” about my soul age and the role. Given the following descriptions, can you do a “wild guess” about my age and role?

    1) First of all, I experienced a not so smooth childhood / youth, maybe related to having communication problems (1.5 year ago diagnosed with autism) and having a “messy mind” without structure.

    2) Secondly, I am a deep thinker and dedicate my free time for personal development, spirituality, new age topics, Buddhism, psychology (esp. now after I know I am existing to grow with life lessons). I like reading literature about these, contemplate and write articles using those elements that I learned and have recognized.

    3) Thirdly, I am very creative and open, sometimes I am not pleased with this. Being creative, I am not always grounded and practical, not being in the reality of “Now”. People usually say that they feel I am honest and open. Individuals like to share their emotions and feelings with me, seeing me as a mirror to reflect. I don’t really see myself like that at all.. Deeply within I know that I want to help the society on a larger scale, not specific individuals. That is also the reason why I feel the urge to write articles to give people deeper knowledge and help them raise their consciousness. I know deeply that aligning with our own soul, nature, essence is the solution to all the problems we have in life.

    I am “struggling” between a mature soul and infant soul, between an artisan and a priest. All the worldly pleasures do not give me much satisfaction now and not feeling the same as the majority of people. I guess I am transitioning into another phase, but what exactly is not known. That is why I suspect myself being a mature soul.
    But during some social interactions, fear is holding me back. So I believe I have some hidden emotions that I still need to work on to release. I read about infant souls being not well socially, also open and honest.
    As for the role, I am creative, but it is about the product of my creation without a meaning, but having creations to help inner alignment.

    So what do you think, Barry? Thanks!

    • 3 barry 18 Jun 2014 at 5:13 pm

      Hi Yanling,

      I wasn’t aware of the Finding Your Soul book (Thayer White, yeah?), so thanks for that.

      OK, without even reading your self-description, I see a wide-eyed Artisan (right down to the regulation glasses!).

      And at a guess, a Priest-cast Mature Artisan, the same as my dear wife.

      As for your specific points:-

      1) A “messy mind” is typical – the Artisan mind works more like a floating dream factory, spinning off in multiple directions, rather than a linear computer (like us Scholars) … which makes for some interesting conversations in our household… My wife’s mind is reined in, however, by certain overleaves – Intellectual centering, mode of Caution and attitude of Scepticism, so she’s very good at analysing stuff (unlike me, I’m more impressionistic). And my first impression of you is … possibly … attitude of Spiritualism, which is basically open-minded to the max, but this is guesswork on my part. You should get you a reading from a proper channel!

      2) This is typical of a Mature soul with an open mind, ready to begin/continue the inner search for self-understanding in this life.

      3) Artisan, Artisan, Artisan.

      The urge to give on a deeper level of significance is also suggestive of Priest-casting: in my wife’s case, for example, she is clearly a creative Artisan, but being Priest-cast it is creating things that serve some higher purpose or social value that really motivates her.

      If you were an Infant soul, you probably wouldn’t be looking at websites like this, seeking insights and greater awareness. You would be more likely living in a backwoods hut, picking fights with innocent visitors, all of whom (to an Infant soul) can seem threatening and dangerous. That’s what is meant by infant souls being described as not well socially adjusted.

      Whereas for a Mature soul, struggling with the very heart of relationships is the “prime directive” so to speak – the soul’s mission is to find its own way through the real messiness of relationships. In other words, as a Mature soul you not only “get” that everyone else has an inner life (subjective perceptions/reactions) just like you, but that they also have distortions in how they perceive you, which you can detect, but you cannot alter except by ensuring that what they see of you is the real you… and even then they still might not see you as you see yourself …

      In the end, you just have to be authentic, live your truest sense of purpose, and it’s up to others to make of you what they will – but rest assured that, by some law of nature, like-minded souls will come to see you and appreciate you and will benefit from your work.


  3. 4 Kai 28 Jun 2014 at 10:12 pm

    I love this blog!! Thank you. Are you open to do a guest blog?

    • 5 barry 08 Jul 2014 at 12:35 pm

      Sorry, a what?

  4. 6 Kai 08 Jul 2014 at 12:37 pm

    Lol nevermind

  5. 7 Maya 16 Jul 2014 at 9:32 pm


    Found your blog quite interesting.

    I have many questions about my own existence…….

    I had a troubled childhood and had to witness daily strife between parents whose scars are still there in my memory. I was an average student till primary school but dont know what got into me and thereafter channelized all my energy towards studies and went on to become topper of School.

    I always liked company of seniors better than that of my classmates as there was more to learn. I always flow with the flow of life….got into a career which involved dealing with people double or triple of my age but was instantly comfortable as my instinct always guided me what the other person might be expecting.

    I had a fabulous career with great money but the money never gave me any peace of mind. Although i excelled in work i also hated it to the extent that it had started deteriorating my health (anxiety,palpitations etc). I recently had a baby and thus altogether left my job and all those physical symptoms have subsided.

    i now know that if we get our soul to do what it does not intend to do then there can be physical manifestations.

    I read a couple of books by Dr. Brian Weiss and since then my curiosity has further increased. I believe in Re-incarnation and Karma. I in fact met my spouse randomly and it was sheer chance that our paths crossed. I am now self-employed and the field in which i am operating now is highly fulfilling as there is great scope to learn new things.

    Sometimes i feel overwhelmed at the thought that there is so much to read and learn that this single lifetime will fall short.Many a times while doing a thing i get a feeling that i have done this before but cant recall when and where.

    It has happened 3-4 times that i desperately wanted a thing and got the answers in my dreams. No one believes me. I am not religious or do any ritual or go to temple but believe in oneness of god.

    Despite all these, my life is full of instances wherein i have been so so jealous of a fellow friend or egoistic that it makes me ponder as to who i am……good or bad?

    What do you think i am? Baby, Young or Mature Soul?

    I can be utterly generous to strangers but can’t stand even some close relatives of mine. I do care for them but cant get myself to love them.

    Am i an Artisan or a Sage?

    Do you believe in astrology? Does date of birth has got anything to do with soul advancement level?

    Any tip for me to further enhance my spiritual progression and to avoid things like jealousy, ego etc?

    Maya: I’ve edited your single block of text into paragraphs – hope that’s OK – Barry

    • 8 Maya 24 Jul 2014 at 7:00 pm

      Ok. Awaiting your reply :)

    • 9 barry 26 Jul 2014 at 12:52 pm

      Hi Maya,

      Thanks for waiting. I often only have time & energy to read & write here in short bursts, so sometimes there’s a lag between reading the comment and responding to it.


      “my life is full of instances wherein i have been so so jealous of a fellow friend or egoistic that it makes me ponder as to who i am……good or bad?”

      In your heart of hearts, you — the real you, the essence of you — is Good with a capital G.

      Your true nature is loving, giving, uplifting — but you also have choice in how you show yourself in any moment. And you also have an outward-pointing human mind which may not recognise any of this. You are a like a valve through which the fabulous energy of Source can either pour through you to others, or it can just stand there blocked and stagnant, or it can be anything in between. The more your recognise and own your true nature, and lose any fear of others by recognising their true nature, the more you feel willing to open the valve and let the light shine through you.

      But no human being is perfect, nor are they expected to be. In your personality and ego, there is the potential for confusion and negativity. We all have strands of immaturity in us. We each grow up in life with a trait of ego defensiveness (a “chief feature”) that is characterised by negativity, immature perceptions and self-hiding.

      Jealousy, I would suggest, is a component of the trait known as Greed. That’s not necessarily greed in the sense of grasping for money, but any kind of needy, clinging, over-attachment — e.g., to attention, or to sympathy, or to feeling protected, etc. Typically the mind remembers early experiences of terrible deprivation of loss, and DREADS such experiences ever re-occurring, so the ego vows never to let that happen again by coming up with various strategies — grasping, jumping the queue, hoarding, taking more than is needed, risking all for the next gain.

      Jealousy is akin to envy. In both cases, you see someone else who has something you would dearly like to have for yourself. With envy, you merely wish that you had it, and maybe get feel the frustration of that, but you can also laugh it off if you’re mature enough. With jealousy, you don’t simply want the same thing; you “NEED” it, and you might even want the other person to LOSE it, and to feel the same terrible LACK that you feel when you compare yourself with them, and you might also look for reasons to justify why you deserve it more than them.

      Why? Because you fear that any experience of lacking whatever-it-is in your case (money, success, fame, sex, etc.) is absolute — that is, it forever limits who you are and who you can be. “If I don’t win that jackpot, that’s it. It proves that I’m a nobody.”

      I don’t have jealousy but I do have a shedload of shame, which goes with the chief feature of Self-Deprecation. With shame, I always fear being exposed as a bad person – forever.

      Jealousy, shame and all these other dark, ugly emotions are all derivative from one core emotion: FEAR. The fear itself is irrational to adult eyes, but it sits within a part of us that formed during childhood, when it seemed overwhelmingly threatening. The main way to deal with it is to go inside yourself and identify the specific fear — name it, look at it, see what ideas feed into to it, see what negative behaviours come out of it.

      What do you think i am? Baby, Young or Mature Soul?

      The very fact that you have many questions about your existence is pretty much a big signpost saying Mature Soul Here.

      I would guess you are approx. mid-Mature, which means focusing more inwardly than outwardly, and more collaboratively than competitively, and seeking for clues as to the meaning and purpose of life. And if (like me) you have a goal of Growth, then doing the seeking very explicitly, perhaps almost obsessively!

      When you say, “Sometimes i feel overwhelmed at the thought that there is so much to read and learn that this single lifetime will fall short”, you are ringing my bell too. Impatience often goes with the goal of Growth. “I need to understand EVERYTHING – but life is so short and time is running out!”

      Another common aspect of lives with the goal of Growth, if that is indeed what you are driven by in this life, is the tendency to lurch between contrasting experiences – high and low, or success and failure, or fame and infamy (to give a few examples) – as a way to learn, first through a process of compare-and-contrast, and second by internally integrating and transcending the two. We grow by understanding the seemingly conflicting tendencies within us, and by finally knowing them to be just two sides of the same coin we become that bit more whole.

      It’s interesting that you have always preferred the company of older people, which suggests you are probably an older soul relative to others around you. I get the impression that you were raised in a Young soul-centric culture or community with a “must-win-no-matter-what” attitude, and you went with it, going with the flow, until you reached the point at which you felt the dissonance of being well-off yet unfulfilled, and that awakened your deeper awareness.

      I would also suspect, by the way, that this was in your soul’s life-plan all along: “I’ll see through the false trappings of wealth by becoming wealthy and then finding it hollow and meaningless and needlessly stressful.”

      To return briefly to your liking the company of older people, it’s also possible that you have particularly flourished in recent lives as a middle-aged or older person, and that’s where you feel most comfortable. You intuitively “feel right” at that age – the age at which ego ambitions are set aside (in Mature and Old souls that is) in favour of some meaningful, heart-felt purpose. Again, the fact that others don’t believe you when you talk about your dream experiences suggests you haven’t found “your people” yet.

      Am i an Artisan or a Sage?

      Not sure to be honest. If those are the only choices I would go with Artisan. Going on first impressions, your writing style is a bit too ‘conservative’ for a typical flamboyant Sage, and more like the casual freestyle of Artisans. But aside from that I have little to go on regarding type (the energy you put out), though your age (the level of awareness within) is more obvious.

      Do you believe in astrology?

      I have little to no experience of astrology, but I have a lot of friends who swear by it so I respect that. I have specifically avoided getting into it because it’s such a huge area that I could happily throw my Scholarly brain into, but I find that I prefer to focus on something a bit ‘different’, less well known, so I have thrown my brain into the Michael teachings and similar material.

      Does date of birth has got anything to do with soul advancement level?

      As far as I understand it, a birth chart reveals your current life plan (goal, challenges, etc). I don’t think soul age/level is featured.

      Any tip for me to further enhance my spiritual progression and to avoid things like jealousy, ego etc?

      1. There is one great tip that covers everything and that is self-honesty. Look at yourself with clear (but compassionate) eyes. Look at your issues and question them – “But why?” – until you get to the root. The root will always be a specific fear of some description.

      2. Keep a journal and write it all down – be as honest with yourself as you can. Hide nothing from yourself.

      3. Share your innermost self with others. Either with a trusted friend, or in a growth group, or in the form of a blog. Bringing your hideously embarrassing “stuff” (memories, attitudes, jealousies) up from your unconscious shadows into the light of awareness — not just of your own awareness but the shared awareness of others — is the perfect way to rob the ego of the power of secrecy.

      4. When in doubt or fear, ask for support from “them up there.” You never know what might show up!

      Hope this helps


  6. 10 Maya 30 Jul 2014 at 6:02 pm

    Hi Barry,

    Thank you. That was quite insightful. My quest will continue. I make it a point to read as much as i can on this subject… far i am just gathering width. Once i will be sure as to what i truly believe in and that sounds plausible to my essence then i would be glad in measuring the depth too.
    So far, my essence is quite in sync with your thought process….very refreshing and logical. The best takeaway for me was that to never obstruct anyone’s freewill…..I think that can do wonders for me. :)

  7. 11 Linda 07 Aug 2014 at 3:28 am

    So I stumbled upon this and I couldn’t be happier that I did. This entails a big part of what I want to understand. I’ve always just thought of myself as an old soul in the way that from as long as I can remember I’ve conveyed empathy and emotion for others as well as wanting a deeper understanding of who I am and why I’m here, also how am I here. I’ve never taken the initiative to look into what maybe makes me this way until recently in my life. I just turned 20 years old, and I’m hoping I can say this without sounding like a nut or like I don’t take this seriously but I am a pretty big believer not so much in zodiac signs and horoscopes but my personal connection to what is a general personality, life style and emotional connection to what is associated with the sign I was born under. Once again, even when I was little I would ALWAYS read the zodiac calendar and horoscope in the newspaper or online but I always felt like a weird kid, like I wanted to hide the fact that I was genuinely interested and excited to read about it. I’m a cancer, born July 17th. I consider myself largely associated with the moon and water, sometimes I really can’t explain why I’m so drawn to the idea of the moon and what it represents spiritually but being drawn to water is what I have less understanding of. Now reading this it’s given me a better understanding of why am so drawn to being rational but drawn to emotions and emotional connections even though most people or souls under whatever sign tend to irritate me. I feel like I judge people I meet a lot more than I should based on how they act towards other people, whether they make decisions based on my idea of someone with a shallow mind or how they reflect on the scale of body based decisions compared to spirit or soul based (cont)

  8. 12 Linda 07 Aug 2014 at 3:50 am

    decisions (continued comment)
    I’m usually pretty sensitive in determining someone’s level of wanting to have a deeper understanding of the same things that I do, I want to know why I’ve always felt like, in my terms, an old soul. I’ve just always felt things on a higher level of awareness like own feelings, others emotions, and since I was little I’ve wondered about my souls separation from my physical body, wondering, “why am I here, why was I put into this body, is my soul a separate vessel than my body, am I what I feel inside or is what I feel inside part of my physical mind?” Like I said, I’ve thought these things since I can remember. I always knew that other kids and now adults don’t typically think about these things, I’ve always wondered why I felt so different. I still wonder. Sometimes when I meet someone I just think and ask myself how a living being can have such little concern for WHY they are in this place and time, what purpose is there for ME being present during this one second of existence? Why am I, who I am? I just never understood how people never seemed to be concerned about it, but this article makes sense of why I’m so concerned and sensitive to other people’s awareness to more than being here PHYSICALLY like their personal understanding could matter any less, but I’m also able to make sense of why I feel and think and value things differently than people around me. Thank you so much for this beautiful article, I feel a little more content now that I’m able to make even the slightest bit of sense out of things I’ve been wondering since I was a child. If you have any other articles, whether they be yours or someone else’s concerning incarnation, fate and destiny as opposed to choice and consequence, understanding what you feel is your soul and why you are personally drawn to certain things I would greatly appreciate some more to read. Once again, thank you so much for putting this into perspective. You’ve unintentionally helped me with a big step in my life and what is important to me.

    • 13 barry 08 Aug 2014 at 2:24 pm

      Very welcome Linda.

      I would just say that from my understanding, fate and destiny are what the soul’s Life Plan looks like from the same soul’s human/personality perspective when incarnate.

      We draw up a Life Plan before each life with a little help from our guides and mentors. Everything in it is carefully chosen. We choose our birth parents, location, overleaves (personality traits), key milestones, meeting points, karmic tasks, relationship agreements, early exit opportunities, and so on. I don’t mean that every second of our lives is predetermined by our own plan, as that would make us merely actors following a script. Rather, the plan is more like a rough timetable of events that are designed to help wake us up and be fully present in life, as conscious as we can be in order to really CHOOSE how we EXPERIENCE each key event when it happens – whether it’s falling out of a window, getting addicted to heroin, being inspired by a great coach, or marrying the love of our life.

      As far as I understand it, astrology is best used as a way to reveal the Life Plan. We don’t normally remember our own Life Plan while incarnate, so when our life events seem to unfold as predicted by astrology, it looks like fate or destiny. It ALWAYS comes back to choices and consequences.



  9. 14 barry 06 Feb 2014 at 10:35 am

    Hi Amanda

    I’ve been conversing with you on other pages but overlooked this one (CFS here too!).

    Basically I see you as having the goal of Growth. What that means, in some ways it’s as if you start life from scratch and have to “bootstrap” yourself in terms of understanding why you’re here and what to do. Some people are born knowing what to do with their lives – be a mother, play piano concertos, be a great architect. Those lucky bastards don’t have goal of Growth, because whole point of growth is to confront uncertainty and the void of meaning and purpose we can feel inside. This very sense of void is what spurs us, as we go through life, to **find our own way** to meaning, understanding and fulfilment. Bit by bit we take in what seems true for us and shed what doesn’t. Eventually (hopefully) we are at least clear in our purpose: to use the unique wisdom we have gained. All those conflicts are grist for the mill for the soul’s deepening awareness.

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